savionen Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 - If stock strike knocks them out of melee range, they're not sticking close enough to you. -Shockwave's gap is countered by any charge, or pull -They could pop their CC break and stun you back -Most other classes have some sort of defensive ability to use, too and continue to interrupt and attack you if you stand there regardless of any shield. -How are you kiting without a slow when more likely than not they've got a slow on you? -Assuming they can't keep you from casting, which most classes can if they look at their stuff if they die to just Grav Round/ High Impact Bolt, they're either ignoring you, only using a couple dps attacks back at you, or being attacked by someone else as well. If they charged you and you shockwave them then charge is on cooldown... Commando/Mercenary also has more armor than any non-tank. Actually, they have more than a Shadow tank, and just as much as most tanks when you include Power Barrier's +10%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sordo Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 God... i really hope bioware never takes pvp whiners seriously... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalmeseReb Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Differance being you can move to los, out of range of the merc, the oper/smugg stuns you to faceplant the ground till their done having their way with you. because nobody has a stun break move right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kortobowden Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 If they charged you and you shockwave them then charge is on cooldown... Commando/Mercenary also has more armor than any non-tank. Actually, they have more than a Shadow tank, and just as much as most tanks when you include Power Barrier's +10%. If they charged first, then that's their fault for charging first(though powertechs and tank assassins can get a grapple/pull that can counter it and juggs/maras can spec into a second leap or push/charge again) It shouldn't more than 1 tracer missile to get back to them(outside of the huttball, in which case you disengage and make your way back to where you need to if you're knocked off regardless of who was attacking you) Heavy armor+power barrier is only there because they HAVE to stay in place to get their instants buffed to do their damage. I still see melee classes and trip through them regardless. They don't have any roots, reliable slows, bubbles or movement speed bonuses so they need to be able to take a few more hits. Once you're on them all they have for defense is their knockback and their 2 min and 3 min CD defensive abilitys for survival. I went to pyrotech for that exact reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machazareel Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Can't tracer missle be interrupted? Not if you're bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winraxj Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 No... They are very hard to play. You have to do many steps to kill somone. Targeting. Hitting 1-4 buttons at most. Watch for LoS on many wide open maps. Eat a poptart Keep Up with the movie your watching on Netflix. Flexing your E-peen in guild chat of how you just Owned someone. Flexing your E-Peen in Vent of how your owning Everyone. We all know the Warrior class hits their auto win charge button and just rolls face on keyboard. Moar /Sarcasm Its more like this: bind half your keys to grav round Other half to moving Fall asleep on your computer desk. Wake up with 10 medals plus MvP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugig Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 can't believe no one got my Smite Cleric reference guess i am getting too old for this hehe Back more to the topic, there are those here that are claiming they know XX about Y class and spec and have already been called out on it, they have yet to have provided the requested info...yet they are still here yapping like they know something. Point blank, even the best mercs will tell you a merc is only OP vs bad players, you get ones that know what they are doing and any percieved advantage you have goes away and then it comes down to how skilled you are as a merc. And no I am not lvl 50 yet and I dont consider myself one of the better mercs either, but i do know how to use my tools to win more than I lose and yes I have to use more than just TM if I want to win. <Zenobi> Girradda the Hutt server Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Which warzone was this? I like how this question was completely ignored. Likely because it wasn't a WZ, it was a 1v1 duel, so in other words, these circumstances would likely never be recreated in a live fight. Making your experiment completely pointless. And with the information actually provided by the OP, we could assume that his "614 expertise" was sitting in his bag because he was naked, standing still in that 1v1 duel simply trying to see how much of a ridiculous number he could come up with to please the forum babies. Not to mention that the BH used at least 2-3 instants in that time period as well, so the thread title isn't just whiny, it's inaccurate. Well played OP. You have provided nothing. Yet somehow managed to ruffle the undies of 12 pages of noobs. Well played. It was a 1v1 fight because i wanted to test it. he cast 4 spells and I was dead. Maybe they have an instant cast or something i missed.. is that possible? By the way, good job of not having even the smallest grasp of the class that you are trying to portray as overpowered. You are a true winner and an icon to us all. Edited January 27, 2012 by Celebrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbocat Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 And people are OK with this? I see that they're nerfing Operative since they can kill you in 4 globals, yet we're leaving Merc Damage alone when they do the same thing? Did your brain function stopp working, and and when you was dead you was back to your self? (heard of LoS?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peacemakerx Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 op like all those before calling for nerf tracers, you probably got hit tracer,tracer, heatseeker, tracer, tracer and railshot, or something similar..and just stood there..ready to take it. all that you saw was OMG MISSILE SPAM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwiz Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I sorta doubt that someone who can take down a 600+ expertise player would be bad enough to cast 4 tracer missiles in a row... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endlessday Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 No that's pretty much what happened. The BH is a well known pvper and pvp's with the 2P rakata for the 15% crit bonus to it and all the rest of the gear is BM. It was a 1v1 fight because i wanted to test it. he cast 4 spells and I was dead. Maybe they have an instant cast or something i missed.. is that possible? So what your saying is that a top tier BH with meds, stims, adrenals top PvP gear and a firm understanding of how to effectively kill some in a 1v1 killed you using all the things mentioned above in a few abilities? I don't see what is wrong with that? BH Mercs have 4 abilities as their main damage Tracer Missile, Heat Seeker Missile, Unload, and Rail Shot. They have a passive 35% armor penetration and tracer missile has a stacking 4% armor debuff that stacks 5 times and each missile applies 2 stacks Rail shot damage increases by 6% for each stack of tracer missile and Heatseeker missile is instant cast and deals 5% extra damage for every stack of tracer missile. So I am not surprised he killed you in 4 hits but I am almost positive that it wasnt 4 traces what he did was hit you with 2 traces giving you -16% armor then heatseeker missile and rail shot critting with all 4 abilities causing you to die. Any real PvP BH knows that tracer spam is not an optimal use of Globals and will just stack 2 on you and drop all his high dmg instance for large burst damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggok Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Oh wait they can move just like everyone else and have several other abilites! I know just how easy Commandos are to play considering that screenshot is mine with my lowbie Commando showing how faceroll they are. I'd love to be in the same warzone as you, because I would make you quit the class. DPS Mercs and DPS Commandos are absolutely the easiest class for me to shutdown via interrupts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilslash Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 You have a full bm merc but you don't even know how giving tracer a cd would destroy the entire arsenal tree? lol. How would it ? just go back to power shot, use rapid shots if needed, you do know you have more then 1 move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzhokhar Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 How would it ? just go back to power shot, use rapid shots if needed, you do know you have more then 1 move It has two stacking debuffs and a stacking buff that all last only 15 seconds. Those things are all balanced around being stackable up to 5 times. A cooldown would prevent them from stacking at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mizhas Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Seriously, The only way they could nerf Tm is lowering its damage (wich i think its ok btw) cause if they would change its cooldown or cast time the entire arsenal spec should be revamped cause every single talent on the spec depend on that missile. I think that no other class has such a "one ability only focused" spec. In addition i think what mostly happening is that many of the people asking for nerfs don't even bother in researching about the enemy classes and finding how to beat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilslash Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 It has two stacking debuffs and a stacking buff that all last only 15 seconds. Those things are all balanced around being stackable up to 5 times. A cooldown would prevent them from stacking at all. How would it, with a 8 sec cooldown, you could easily stack it ? Just look at marauders annihilation stacks that has a 15 sec buff that stacks each time you it lowering the cooldown of annihilate by 1.5 seconds, which has a 12 second cooldown, so you initially have a 3 second window to use it. Im sure many of the other classes have something similar too. Is there any real reason why a cooldown couldnt be added to tracer shot ? It would decrease mercs burst abit, so they would have to dps longer to get full stacks instead of killing people in 6-8 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzhokhar Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) How would it, with a 8 sec cooldown, you could easily stack it ? Just look at marauders annihilation stacks that has a 15 sec buff that stacks each time you it lowering the cooldown of annihilate by 1.5 seconds, which has a 12 second cooldown, so you initially have a 3 second window to use it. Im sure many of the other classes have something similar too. Is there any real reason why a cooldown couldnt be added to tracer shot ? It would decrease mercs burst abit, so they would have to dps longer to get full stacks instead of killing people in 6-8 seconds. There's a big difference between a stacking buff that lowers the cooldown on the ability that applies the buff and a stacking armor debuff. A stacking armor debuff is applied to the target, not the user, so if the target dies or a new target is chosen, it has to be reapplied. This is not the case for a self buff. An armor debuff needs to be applied before the bulk of the damage is done in order to be useful. The self buff provides benefits by allowing you to use a high damage ability more often (and is continuously beneficial). Basically, by forcing Mercs to blow their high damage abilities before the debuffs are applied, you completely remove any benefit that might be gained by stacking the debuff. Edited January 28, 2012 by Dzhokhar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PloGreen Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 4 Tracer Missiles isn't 4 GCDs, it's 6 GCDs and if you stood there and didn't do anything about it, you deserve to die that quickly. Kind of how i look at it to. If you was just testing fair enough, but i never let anyone shoot me 4 times in that way, i interupt, stun or los. Dont really see the problem in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sordo Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I'd love to be in the same warzone as you, because I would make you quit the class. DPS Mercs and DPS Commandos are absolutely the easiest class for me to shutdown via interrupts. this pretty much, i've quitted doing wz:s on my commando for this sole reason. Everyone with interrupts target me immediately when they hear one grav round sound making my life a living hell on the warzones. Its not as much of an "easymode" class as its just plain annoying when you are most often the priority target of shutdowning for pretty much every half competent player. i've seen commando/mercs taken as priority targets over healers because they are easier to shutdown, yes its that bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williambr Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Kind of how i look at it to. If you was just testing fair enough, but i never let anyone shoot me 4 times in that way, i interupt, stun or los. Dont really see the problem in any case. Your the guy I don't like lol. Theres only two types.. 1. guy who facerolls computer in frustration while he stays in the same place,(I like this guy) 2. Guy who realizes all they have to do is walk around any object in the game pretty much to break los, and then interupt right at the end of my tracer missile so I wasted that massive channel lol.(this is usually the guy who also realizes we have no interupt at range and takes advantage of that aswell.(I don't like these people:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williambr Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 this pretty much, i've quitted doing wz:s on my commando for this sole reason. Everyone with interrupts target me immediately when they hear one grav round sound making my life a living hell on the warzones. Its not as much of an "easymode" class as its just plain annoying when you are most often the priority target of shutdowning for pretty much every half competent player. i've seen commando/mercs taken as priority targets over healers because they are easier to shutdown, yes its that bad... I've hit that wall also as a merc, any geared premade has more than likely figure out how easy it is to take us out of the equasion. I didn't know this class was a "simple" class to play, but "even simpler to make useless" in a fight class. If only I could switch to powertech..... Too much questing for reroll I'm afraid, stuck with what I got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggok Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 i've seen commando/mercs taken as priority targets over healers because they are easier to shutdown, yes its that bad... Exactly. I will almost always call a merc as main target before a healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azeemzor Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 this pretty much, i've quitted doing wz:s on my commando for this sole reason. Everyone with interrupts target me immediately when they hear one grav round sound making my life a living hell on the warzones. Its not as much of an "easymode" class as its just plain annoying when you are most often the priority target of shutdowning for pretty much every half competent player. i've seen commando/mercs taken as priority targets over healers because they are easier to shutdown, yes its that bad... Happened to me the entire night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kortobowden Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 this pretty much, i've quitted doing wz:s on my commando for this sole reason. Everyone with interrupts target me immediately when they hear one grav round sound making my life a living hell on the warzones. Its not as much of an "easymode" class as its just plain annoying when you are most often the priority target of shutdowning for pretty much every half competent player. i've seen commando/mercs taken as priority targets over healers because they are easier to shutdown, yes its that bad... This is a big part of the reason I went Pyrotech. I don't rely on cast times as much, and power shot is way less distracting than tracer missile. I get focused a lot less. Still get focused by melee fairly often since I only have my 25 sec knockback, stun, incapacitate, and a RNG snare... but it beats being targeted by half the team and having someone focus on me the rest of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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