PvP - How it is ...deal with it

[Delavager]

Wow most of this posts are pretty off, and you all make claims that are untrue and baseless.

 

A) There aren't 200 hours in a week.

B) There is one reason and one reason only for expertise, it's to separate PvE and PvP. That's it.

C) All MMO's ever have gear. PvP gear isn't special, as long as there exists GEAR and different tiers of GEAR, then there will be grind for said GEAR. If PvP gear goes away, then the grind becomes getting PvE gear to use in PvP.

D) If there only requirement to get the best PvP gear is time, then really there is no complaining. There is a specific reason why it takes a bit to get different tiers of gear, and that is the idea of progression. The underlying reason you are playing the game whether you realize it or not is progression. If you take away the goal of PvP (which right now is to get battlemasters gear) then you pretty much end PvP. If you add some sort of ranking system, then sure you can take away gear 'cause you have a new goal.

E) If you take away gear, you will lose more PvP players then the people who complain they are getting stomped. People are going to get stomped, it's part of the game.

F) The players who are complaining about coming into level 50 pvp and getting stomped by fully geared 50 pvpers are being selfish, really that's all there is to it. You are only looking at it from your own selfish perspective, and not the perspective of the level 50 player who stomped you. Whatever he/she is doing you will eventually get to do too, you just turned 50, stop complaining.

G) PvP is exactly that, PvP. You can't claim "if players lose are PvP they are going to quit the game". In every warzone HALF THE PEOPLE LOSE. In PvP someone always loses. You take gear out, the skilled players will be the lesser skilled players and someone is still losing. If someone is bad at PvP, then there's no "solution" to fix that problem, it just sucks. I understand the philosophy with matching "bad" vs "bad", and that's coming via ranked warzones. Otherwise as it's a competition, I don't really understand people's mindset of people who lose will leave. If that's the case then the game wasn't fun to begin with.

[wolveroach]

Expertise = not going to PvP after 50. No skin off my nose, i'll just play alts in PvP or stick to PvE entertainment.

[alanisUDL]

This to me is the fundamental problem with the expertise system. Hoping someday an MMO comes along that takes gear out of PvP and makes it all about skill.

 

This is the main issue that people coming from WOW just don't seem to get, and it isn't their fault because of the "success" of that game.

 

Skill to me should be the deciding factor regardless of how much time someone spends playing.

 

GW2

[Mekrath]

A better solution is to remove expertise, and add a PvE raid stat. Then people who want to raid get better gear for raiding, and people who don't don't have to worry about it because they aren't going on any raids anyway.

 

I think this is the best solution myself, taken from the GW2 website:

 

"Everyone plays at the same level in Guild Wars 2 PvP, where skill and strategy provide players with the winning edge. All players are set to max level and given all the skills and gear they need to meet their opponents on even terms."

 

I would so much prefer that PvP were 100% based on skill.

[alanisUDL]

D) If there only requirement to get the best PvP gear is time, then really there is no complaining. There is a specific reason why it takes a bit to get different tiers of gear, and that is the idea of progression. The underlying reason you are playing the game whether you realize it or not is progression.

 

The underlined is so very much fail that WOW has instilled in peoples minds. The reason people play the game is to have FUN, wether that be PvE, PvP, Crafting, RP, etc.

 

If you take away the goal of PvP (which right now is to get battlemasters gear) then you pretty much end PvP. If you add some sort of ranking system, then sure you can take away gear 'cause you have a new goal.

 

Again, the goal of most people playing PvP is/should be because they enjoy the competitive nature and enjoyment they get from PvP. Not purple items.

 

E) If you take away gear, you will lose more PvP players then the people who complain they are getting stomped. People are going to get stomped, it's part of the game.

 

You can certainly create a system where you can obtain gear, levels, and experience in PvP that is significantly better than the current makeup that you see in this and many similar theme-park MMOs. Perks, aethetics, titles, and as you mentioned above ranking systems. All of these are 10000x better than the current system which causes people to consistently feel the need to grind and grind and grind to just be competive. Video games shouldn't require you to hate the game before you can have fun.

 

F) The players who are complaining about coming into level 50 pvp and getting stomped by fully geared 50 pvpers are being selfish, really that's all there is to it. You are only looking at it from your own selfish perspective, and not the perspective of the level 50 player who stomped you. Whatever he/she is doing you will eventually get to do too, you just turned 50, stop complaining.

 

This is a super failure perspective. New 50s are being "selfish" by wanting to be competitive?

 

There are MMOs that have come before this and WOW, and there will be more after that don't have this rediculous notion that "I've put this much time and effort, so naturally no matter how terribad I am I should 2 shot you". The idea that a toon at the same level as you should have absolutely no chance of winning a battle because of gear disparity is the absolute and complete mark of a terribly designed game.

 

G) PvP is exactly that, PvP. You can't claim "if players lose are PvP they are going to quit the game". In every warzone HALF THE PEOPLE LOSE. In PvP someone always loses. You take gear out, the skilled players will be the lesser skilled players and someone is still losing. If someone is bad at PvP, then there's no "solution" to fix that problem, it just sucks. I understand the philosophy with matching "bad" vs "bad", and that's coming via ranked warzones. Otherwise as it's a competition, I don't really understand people's mindset of people who lose will leave. If that's the case then the game wasn't fun to begin with.

 

It isn't that people that lose will leave. Some people will leave regardless if they are bad. I believe a majority of people that leave are those that come to a fight, feel they played pretty well, but see that there is literally no chance of them beating someone due to the gear disparity. A game can be designed to give advantages to those who have progressed without making it so utterly gamebreaking and un-FUN to the newer character.

[Grafikk]

i just wish they do something about being rewared by rng , atleast in pve there's always someone getting geared making the encounter move forward. Thus you look forward any way, but due to the rng, some groups in pvp get 0 gear ;o

 

Yeah it gets old, a guildie of mine is getting a TON of duplicates while still missing pieces. I wish they would move to a currency system. I like their approach to buying the bags and wish they would make more currency beside mercenary (ie. Champion) and make it cost a lot more. Dailies and weeklies can award those commodations... Make ranks the / tiers / to use certain currency.

[Pwny_Express]

D) If there only requirement to get the best PvP gear is time, then really there is no complaining. There is a specific reason why it takes a bit to get different tiers of gear, and that is the idea of progression. The underlying reason you are playing the game whether you realize it or not is progression. If you take away the goal of PvP (which right now is to get battlemasters gear) then you pretty much end PvP. If you add some sort of ranking system, then sure you can take away gear 'cause you have a new goal.

 

I was under the impression the underlying reason to PvP is because it is a fun contest between skilled players, not because they dangled a new shiny object in front of my face.

 

E) If you take away gear, you will lose more PvP players then the people who complain they are getting stomped. People are going to get stomped, it's part of the game.

 

Add cosmetics, add titles, add a few non-gamebreaker consumables/skills for PvP progression.

 

F) The players who are complaining about coming into level 50 pvp and getting stomped by fully geared 50 pvpers are being selfish, really that's all there is to it. You are only looking at it from your own selfish perspective, and not the perspective of the level 50 player who stomped you. Whatever he/she is doing you will eventually get to do too, you just turned 50, stop complaining.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was PAYING money to play this game for the satisfaction of other people.

 

G) PvP is exactly that, PvP. You can't claim "if players lose are PvP they are going to quit the game". In every warzone HALF THE PEOPLE LOSE. In PvP someone always loses. You take gear out, the skilled players will be the lesser skilled players and someone is still losing. If someone is bad at PvP, then there's no "solution" to fix that problem, it just sucks. I understand the philosophy with matching "bad" vs "bad", and that's coming via ranked warzones. Otherwise as it's a competition, I don't really understand people's mindset of people who lose will leave. If that's the case then the game wasn't fun to begin with.

 

The issue isn't that people quit when they lose. It's that they will quit there is not even a sliver of hope of beating someone else who simply has better items. By the time a casual can grind those items the next expansion is out with hardcore people getting an even bigger numerical advantage on stats to roflstomp the others again. The issue is that people won't pay money to chase an unreachable goal.

 

Removing the pvp stat, equalizing stats, OR organizing WZ's based on expertise level (enough that expertise is a little difference, but doesn't end up the deciding factor in a match) are all viable options.

 

The problem is when you forcibly put newcomers at a disadvantage it turns them off. With no new players you will eventually run out of people to fight in PvP and then PvP will die.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Pwny_Express

[Pwny_Express]

Expertise = not going to PvP after 50. No skin off my nose, i'll just play alts in PvP or stick to PvE entertainment.

 

 

I wish there was a way to turn off my XP gain. Other games have this feature, why can't I? I don't want to level past 49 at this point, because I don't enjoy grinds and don't want to be forced into one just to enjoy the same level of PvP that I am now in the 1-49 bracket.

[BDutch]

I wish there was a way to turn off my XP gain. Other games have this feature, why can't I? I don't want to level past 49 at this point, because I don't enjoy grinds and don't want to be forced into one just to enjoy the same level of PvP that I am now in the 1-49 bracket.

 

My sig is a better solution that would accomplish this without adding level locks

[Roak]

The underlined is so very much fail that WOW has instilled in peoples minds. The reason people play the game is to have FUN, wether that be PvE, PvP, Crafting, RP, etc.

 

Problem is they outnumber us, so the devs can get away with making ****** game mechanics because all the people conned by blizzard are happy to take this new shafting and continue believing its the best way to make mmo pvp gameplay.

[Vegathegreat]

In general, I agree.

 

However, some things are OBVIOUS. Self-evident.

 

Look at Sorcerers. Look at their 600 energy pool with linear renegeration.

 

Now, look at Sins. Look at their 110 energy pool with linear regeneration. Their abilities cost exactly the same amount of energy.

 

Now, look at Bounty Hunters. Their 100 heat pool has non-linear regeneration, go over 40 and it slows, go over 80 and it's a crawl, top if off and you're useless.

 

Now tell me, isn't it MUCH harder to manage a non-linear regen pool of 100 than a linear regen pool of 600? How can anyone with more than half a brain NOT see this as a problem? And then people wonder why Sorcerers are probably the most played class in the game?

 

sorcs are the most played class in the game cuz every little kid wants to shoot lightning.....and every douchebag wants to be the emperor (lil kids and douchebags = 40% of the world's pop)

[Grafikk]

There are so many problems with PVP in this game, this is just one of them. I do not see BW making any fundamental changes to thier PVP system as a whole, but I do anticipate that they will end up nerfing some classes.

 

I disagree, I think they will ... the game's 6 weeks old... ppl have no patience.

[Grafikk]

This to me is the fundamental problem with the expertise system. Hoping someday an MMO comes along that takes gear out of PvP and makes it all about skill.

 

Skill to me should be the deciding factor regardless of how much time someone spends playing.

 

Unfortunately there are too many people that won't do it for long without some sort of reward. They are too spoiled now.

[Roak]

I disagree, I think they will ... the game's 6 weeks old... ppl have no patience.

 

yeah the clear concise info from the lead pvp developer a couple of days ago fills me with confidence, um, er yes, no...

[Fainflinnn]

So what you're saying is, those that have no life and can sit all day and play will always have the advantage over those who have a life and responsibilities and can not dedicate 200 hours a week (there arent even 200 hours in a week, but I am using your logic). Ok

 

I edited the main post and turned 200 to 168 for all you ppl using the term can now go correct yourselves

 

All i'm saying is the player that has no life and can play crazy hours is gonna make it to his top end gear first.

I play about 4 hours a day general after work hobby and i've got a good group of ppl i play with and i'm full champ/colmi this is tier 2 gear.

 

Randomness on the champ gear bags is cheesy but essentialy you go for lvl 60 battlemaster gear anyways so in the endgame picture its not so random middle game ya get the shaft a bit but u can mix up champ with centurion peices to make a nice expertise set to help pull you thru.

 

Rift had bad pvp design for a game that ppl didnt take seriously as a pvp game out the gate. The major playbase of rift where ppl wanting to get out of WoW's PvE storylines.

 

Look at Aeon ......terrible PvE game but endgame PvP was loved by so many people.

[Mekrath]

Unfortunately there are too many people that won't do it for long without some sort of reward. They are too spoiled now.

 

Which is sad. If they found it fun they would do it, which implies to me that they don't really find the PvP fun, they are in it for the gear grind.

[Delavager]

Take a course is psychology or common sense then come back

 

The underlined is so very much fail that WOW has instilled in peoples minds. The reason people play the game is to have FUN, wether that be PvE, PvP, Crafting, RP, etc.

 

Again, the goal of most people playing PvP is/should be because they enjoy the competitive nature and enjoyment they get from PvP. Not purple items.

 

FUN is the feeling you get by playing the game, it is not the reason per se. There is an underlying reason why a game is "FUN" and it's different for different games. By definition, an RPG is FUN due to the feeling of accomplishment by PROGRESSING through the game and GROWING your character. Character PROGRESSION is what defines an RPG.

 

All things get "dull" after a while. You want to know what is the number 1 drawing for to keep a person playing a game? A sense of progression. If a player feels they have something to achieve/progress towards, they are much more likely to continue to play that game even if they don't like it. You can say the "FUN" comes from achieving said gear.

 

You can certainly create a system where you can obtain gear, levels, and experience in PvP that is significantly better than the current makeup that you see in this and many similar theme-park MMOs. Perks, aethetics, titles, and as you mentioned above ranking systems. All of these are 10000x better than the current system which causes people to consistently feel the need to grind and grind and grind to just be competive. Video games shouldn't require you to hate the game before you can have fun.

 

I'm sure there is. I personally would prefer a system like GW2 where it's all even and only determining factor is skill. However that has just as many issues with it as the current one does as far as player retention goes. And to be honest this system is pretty close as in 2 months time everybody will be "equal".

 

Lets put it this way, if there weren't gear for PvP right now there would be no PvP at 50. If they changed up the system fine, but they aren't going to do that, because this isn't GW2.

 

This is the "Best of both worlds" because you keep the players who want to grind to get the best gear, and you get to have everybody on an equal playing ground "eventually". GW2 style is great imo, and I will be moving to that game once it comes out, but it isn't the best for the most amount of people.

 

 

This is a super failure perspective. New 50s are being "selfish" by wanting to be competitive?

 

There are MMOs that have come before this and WOW, and there will be more after that don't have this rediculous notion that "I've put this much time and effort, so naturally no matter how terribad I am I should 2 shot you". The idea that a toon at the same level as you should have absolutely no chance of winning a battle because of gear disparity is the absolute and complete mark of a terribly designed game.

 

It's true, it is being selfish. The definition of selfish is only looking at something from your own perspective and not considering others. In the "uber players" perspective, he/she has put in the time to grind for such gear and had to go through the same thing the "non-uber player" did. Should the "uber player" have nothing meaningful to show for his/her time commitment for the game? Again if there were something else to reward high level players fine, but there isn't. Thus all this complaining is out right selfish as the ONLY thing stopping the "whining player" is time.

 

Also there was only one game that came before this and wow that had successful pvp, and that was DAOC. Additionally it doesn't compare because DAOC only had RvR combat. Otherwise there exists no MMORPG prior with successful PvP.

 

It isn't that people that lose will leave. Some people will leave regardless if they are bad. I believe a majority of people that leave are those that come to a fight, feel they played pretty well, but see that there is literally no chance of them beating someone due to the gear disparity. A game can be designed to give advantages to those who have progressed without making it so utterly gamebreaking and un-FUN to the newer character.

 

Read the forums. People are saying literally that players will leave because they are losing. This thread has many posts stating that.

 

Again you can replace "gear disparity" and "skill disparity" and have the exact same paragraph.

 

To repeat the title, IT IS WHAT IT IS. Nothing people are suggesting will solve anything, just make it worse.

 

You can't remove PvP gear at the moment because you will just then go get PvE gear.

You can't remove Expertise because then you'll just get PvE gear. Additionally, if you remove Expertise, the OTHER STATS on the battlemasters gear will still destroy "new level 50s" Anybody suggesting removing Expertise specifically just needs to delete their forum account.

Until the REMOVE GEAR from PvP (different from removing PvP gear) and offer an alternate reward/progression system, there's nothing that can be done to make it better. And to be honest, removing gear doesn't make sense for an RPG because it removes the ability to "define your character" post 50.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Delavager

[Delavager]

I was under the impression the underlying reason to PvP is because it is a fun contest between skilled players, not because they dangled a new shiny object in front of my face.

 

 

 

Add cosmetics, add titles, add a few non-gamebreaker consumables/skills for PvP progression.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was PAYING money to play this game for the satisfaction of other people.

 

 

 

The issue isn't that people quit when they lose. It's that they will quit there is not even a sliver of hope of beating someone else who simply has better items. By the time a casual can grind those items the next expansion is out with hardcore people getting an even bigger numerical advantage on stats to roflstomp the others again. The issue is that people won't pay money to chase an unreachable goal.

 

Removing the pvp stat, equalizing stats, OR organizing WZ's based on expertise level (enough that expertise is a little difference, but doesn't end up the deciding factor in a match).

 

The problem is when you forcibly put newcomers at a disadvantage it turns them off. With no new players you will eventually run out of people to fight in PvP and then PvP will die.

 

See above response as you are wrong =).

[Redderic]

I would be perfectly fine with them getting rid of expertise if they made it so that

1. no HM gear can be worn in WZs or on Ilums pvp area.

2. No raid gear can be worn in WZs or on Ilums pvp area.

 

if they were to balance that and simply make it so that gear progressed in stats that are easily attainable then no one would have a MAJOR upperhand against others.

People would still have to PVP to get the pvp gear and those that raid dont get to faceroll those that dont. People that just hit 50 will stand MUCH MORE of a chance against people that have been pvping for a much longer time but people will still get killed by the more SKILLED pvpers.

these people who are killed will then come here because it couldnt possibly be that someone is better it must be that they are OP.

its a never ending cycle of people dieing and crying because they died.

some people will never be happy with anything.

[BentlikeBindo]

Just my two cents:

 

Coming from DCUO where the PvP gear grind and PvP gear gap was tremendous I hate to hear all the 50 PvPers here say @ expertise. It's clearly a hotly debated topic...

 

I consider myself a good PvP player and while no expert, I have multiple (5) characters in Swtor under level 30 with capped wrz commendations and on two-three characters 5-600 of the higher tier warzone commendations (name escapes me)...yes I manage my time very well, mostly PvPing.

 

Since I don't just like to puff myself up , I'm saying rewarding above average to excellent PvP players gear that further increases their ability against the same cannon fodder that they so built their skill on MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL!!! In ANY game!!

 

Yes I understand the developers wanted to reward everyone, the good and the bad, and that is partly in this system (albeit flawed)...as another poster in here has stated a few times:

 

1-Good PvP players do well by PvPing

 

2-Bad players or less talented/newer players make up 90% of ^^^his/her "training" kills/skills

 

3-Rewarding the good players and increasing the gap between experienced/inexperienced PvP players can and will drive many players away that only want to be as good as ^^^

 

It does not work, in DCUO people would just sit in the spawn and farm until they could even stare at a geared player @ max level. The difference might not be as tremendous here but the fact remains giving better stats to an already superior force truly leeches the will of the opponents.

 

With that said, not all players react that way, and I don't encourage them to. In a system of eat or be eaten in Swtor PvP, communication and teamwork will trump talented players. And when both sides warring realize this, it makes for a better overall PvP experience.

 

To reward PvP players separately from PvE players maybe make the PvP rewards customizable gear (IE pick the stats [within reason] for extreme max level fun!)

 

Or

 

Reward them with amazing visual options of gear that can at least COMPETE against top tier raid gears (once again to keep the playing field level)

 

I saw it happen first hand after the rebirth of a f2p DCUO: the frustrated playerbase over (ofc it wasn't only a gear problem) @ DCUO that at the end of the day love having fun in a PvP setting but just aren't that good (no offense) will grow to loathe the gear separation and just unsub.

 

Let's stay positive in this post and figure out a way to get rid of expertise!

 

I PvP around 75% of my Swtor time (hence no 50s ) and I know I am talented. I DO NOT NEED EXPERTISE to make my life easier in the PvP realm!!!!

 

NOR SHOULD ANY COMPETENT PLAYER!

 

saludos

[KrustyDog]

There are so many problems with PVP in this game, this is just one of them. I do not see BW making any fundamental changes to thier PVP system as a whole, but I do anticipate that they will end up nerfing some classes.

 

Whats the point of pvp. Does it change anything? Is there an ultimate goal to be achieved? Seems to me its just the hampster on the wheel model. Game needs territory disputes, sieges, non instanced pvp that actually matters. As is I am enjoying the game but I dont see it lasting long if all we get is bg's and Ilum. Epic 2012 game needs epic 2012 design not the same crap as the last 4 or 5 supposedly next gen games have.

 

I guess what I miss is the sandbox feel of older games where there was more adventure rather than the tedious grind for gear being the driving force of the game. UO, DaoC, ShadowBane, games like that where you flew by the seat of your pants and just had a blast.

[Delavager]

Again to reiterate to all of you people claiming to do away with Expertise.

 

"You can't remove Expertise because then you'll just get PvE gear. Additionally, if you remove Expertise, the OTHER STATS on the battlemasters gear will still destroy "new level 50s" Anybody suggesting removing Expertise specifically just needs to delete their forum account."

 

You don't get it, because you are new at this and that's fine. As you are new at this and have NO IDEA what you are talking about, nobody at BW is going to take you seriously anyway so not like it matters.

 

Expertise is just a separator for PvP and PvE. It's to make it so the "best gear for PvP" isn't PvE gear, and that PvP players can just PvP. Expertise is just another stat among MANY on Battlesmasters gear that is contributing to your destructing in the Warzone. If you took out Expertise, then the difference in EVERY OTHER STAT would still destroy and the result is the same.

 

Take out Expertise, people go get the best Rakata gear, and STOP YOUR FACE IN PVP, and the same thing happens.

 

It's not the expertise, it's the fact that GEAR exists in PvP. What you want to be saying is "REMOVE GEAR FROM PVP" not "REMOVE EXPERTISE". Everybody stating "REMOVE EXPERTISE" just sounds ridiculous and proves you don't have an understanding of the game and WON'T BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

[Mekrath]

I'm sure there is. I personally would prefer a system like GW2 where it's all even and only determining factor is skill. However that has just as many issues with it as the current one does as far as player retention goes. And to be honest this system is pretty close as in 2 months time everybody will be "equal".

 

Lets put it this way, if there weren't gear for PvP right now there would be no PvP at 50. If they changed up the system fine, but they aren't going to do that, because this isn't GW2.

 

I didn't really play GW1 very much, and haven't followed GW2 a ton because until a few days ago, I figured I would be playing this game for years to come. My understanding though it that even though GW doesn't reward you with stat based gear, there ARE rewards that people find worth grinding for such as very rare gear (where the only advantage is cosmetic, people can recognize it and know you worked hard for it).

[Wisky]

I personally see many problems with the pvp gear grind this game implemented but I disagree with taking out pvp gear and or making everyone regardless of time played equal. Sure that will make pvp 100% skill based but people in general like rewards. My understanding is that most pvprs like the path of getting gear for their character. Most in swtor dislike the RNG factor of gear in this game as I do myself.

 

In the end this is an MMORPG. It is not an FPS game where everyone is created equal and your gear means nothing. In most MMORPGs if not all of them people play because they like getting upgrades. This game in particular is new, and in time BW will figure something out and fix some of the issues. Expecting them to make all pvp based on skill only is a little far fetched in an MMO. Even if they did you would still have the casual gamer upset because the premade destroyed them. So in the end of making it purely based on skill and have no gear upgrades will still in the end cause the solo/casual players to quit.

 

I think there needs to be rewards and I also feel that time invest should make a difference. It has always from my experience made a difference in pve, raid more get more boss attempts get more loot get more kills rinse repeat. In pvp what needs to happen is a way to segregate those players with less play time and less gear into an even bracket. I would think there would be a way to do this based on how much expertise you have. All those with >100 exp Q together, those with 101-200 in another Q and so forth. Problem with that is you will have longer Qs. Some people feel that cross server Qs is the answer. I feel that kills the competitiveness and community of pvp, but I could see it working if it was done correctly. Another thing that should be implemented is pug vs pug and premade vs. premade. When I am in a premade I want to face/be teamed with other premades. Sure it’s great to three-cap and destroy a pug team but its not challenging thus gets boring. The population of this game is what is preventing an even playing field more so then the gear imbalanced for new 50s vs 500+ expertise level 50s. There needs to be multiple things to get people to pvp and keep pvp. First is incentive to do well, thus a reward system, which usually includes some sort of currency to purchase gear. This gear should be static not random. If you win xx games or kill xx people you will get an upgrade period. RNG for pvp gear is a bad plan imho.

 

Having a ranked WZ system may also help those that are new to pvp, give more bags/currency/rewards for ranked wz wins and most of the better geared 50s will Q for those before them Q for random wzs. Sure you will have those that have plenty of time to play still Q’ing for random wzs so he has that unfair advantage vs. new level 50s. Some people like to have that leg up, just because they like to have the ez-mode option, some which is the only way they can win. Wow for instance was the same way. People could grind out BGs for a few months get enough pvp gear that a skilled player would charge them some gold/RL money to get them to a gladiator rank where they unskilled player could get the best gear possible. That unskilled player took that leg up and entered bgs and destroyed those lesser geared and was in his glory. Just because someone is geared does not make them skilled. Most competitive pvprs are aware of this and are aware that that ear matters but skill and experience can still prevail.

 

Right now in this game there are three problems in game. First lack of population across all servers that pvp regularly. This will only be fixed in time IF the other problems are rectified. The other problem is Q’ing people based on if they are a premade vs solo and based on gear. Obviously you can’t have it both ways; I can’t imagine there would be 4 different Qs implemented. I do not think there would be enough people even in a cross-server Q system to allow for “under geared”, “geared”, “premade under geared”, and premade geared. Maybe do a premade Q a geared Q and an under geared Q. Or make it anyone with 300-400 expertise always Qs in a ranked WZ system.

 

These are my suggestions. Love them, hate them, dispute them or agree with them. I am currently having fun when I do play. Sometimes I get owned; sometimes I have great competitive fights. I dislike the RNG of pvp gear and hope they fix it. Illum is boring for my faction on my server.

 

 

 

TLDR: Just because someone has plenty of time to play 200 hours a week (LAWL) does not mean they are good but it also does not mean they have no life. What if someone is ill? Disabled and can’t work? What if someone works from home for a few hours? It makes me laugh that people are so quick to judge someone and say players have no life because they play so often. Sure there are some jobless people out there that live off our taxes and play way more then we could ever imagine. I just don’t think it’s fair to include any hardcore player that put themselves in the position to play as often as they want into a “no life” category. People could still be successful and play way more then you or I work.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Wisky

[KrustyDog]

Just my two cents:

 

Coming from DCUO where the PvP gear grind and PvP gear gap was tremendous I hate to hear all the 50 PvPers here say @ expertise. It's clearly a hotly debated topic...

 

I consider myself a good PvP player and while no expert, I have multiple (5) characters in Swtor under level 30 with capped wrz commendations and on two-three characters 5-600 of the higher tier warzone commendations (name escapes me)...yes I manage my time very well, mostly PvPing.

 

Since I don't just like to puff myself up , I'm saying rewarding above average to excellent PvP players gear that further increases their ability against the same cannon fodder that they so built their skill on MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL!!! In ANY game!!

 

Yes I understand the developers wanted to reward everyone, the good and the bad, and that is partly in this system (albeit flawed)...as another poster in here has stated a few times:

 

1-Good PvP players do well by PvPing

 

2-Bad players or less talented/newer players make up 90% of ^^^his/her "training" kills/skills

 

3-Rewarding the good players and increasing the gap between experienced/inexperienced PvP players can and will drive many players away that only want to be as good as ^^^

 

It does not work, in DCUO people would just sit in the spawn and farm until they could even stare at a geared player @ max level. The difference might not be as tremendous here but the fact remains giving better stats to an already superior force truly leeches the will of the opponents.

 

With that said, not all players react that way, and I don't encourage them to. In a system of eat or be eaten in Swtor PvP, communication and teamwork will trump talented players. And when both sides warring realize this, it makes for a better overall PvP experience.

 

To reward PvP players separately from PvE players maybe make the PvP rewards customizable gear (IE pick the stats [within reason] for extreme max level fun!)

 

Or

 

Reward them with amazing visual options of gear that can at least COMPETE against top tier raid gears (once again to keep the playing field level)

 

I saw it happen first hand after the rebirth of a f2p DCUO: the frustrated playerbase over (ofc it wasn't only a gear problem) @ DCUO that at the end of the day love having fun in a PvP setting but just aren't that good (no offense) will grow to loathe the gear separation and just unsub.

 

Let's stay positive in this post and figure out a way to get rid of expertise!

 

I PvP around 75% of my Swtor time (hence no 50s ) and I know I am talented. I DO NOT NEED EXPERTISE to make my life easier in the PvP realm!!!!

 

NOR SHOULD ANY COMPETENT PLAYER!

 

saludos

 

Aint that the truth. Giving a player who already roflstomps you even better gear so he can roflstomp you even faster. And the real ****** is it getting to such a large disparity that the people with god gear can just stand and do nothing and you still cant friggin kill them. Thats how wow got the last couple of years. I play mmorpgs to pvp. I pve to support my pvp habit. I also do not need any unfair advantage for me to enjoy the game. I also do not require a game genie to play Marios Bros.