Dharagada Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I use that 4/6/31 build. I'm debating on dropping Prototype Cyclinders and the fire crit and taking the aim boost in the ST Tree.. simply because my aim is about 1500 right now..which would be an increase of ~140 aim which might overtake the value of crit.. because I'd gain around 1% to crit for ranged and tech, as well as the power boost that 150 aim provides. Yeah that's what I did, as my gear got better I went ahead and picked up the Aim talent. It's hard to say how much of a difference it's making, but I think it's worth it, especially as you get better gear (more Aim). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykper Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Why would you use the 4pc for free railshots when the majority of our railshots are free to begin with? I don't know about you, but rarely (after the first) am I using railshot unless it's on it procs, because it most definitely will proc every time before the CD finishes on it... at least in my experience. You're much better off taking the Combat Tech set, at least for raid dps. -15sec to explosive fuel is VERY nice (and particularly nice for controlled burst in PVP..makes the CD 1min45sec.. it lasts 15 seconds so effective 1min30sec until you have 50%/57% tech crit again) and 8% dmg across the board to railshot is again, VERY NICE.. considering it's our hardest hitting ability and costs zero heat for us already most of the time. I'm still debating the value of accuracy. Here's the deal; 20-25% of our damage is from railshot. Railshot is a 'weapon damage' attack, that means it uses 'ranged' accuracy, and not tech/special accuracy. Right now I'm sitting at 98.8% ranged accuracy and 108.8% tech accuracy... I still see railshots dodged, and this KILLS me because a dodged railshot totally negates all that power/crit on my gear for a long period of time (until it can make up for the ~2500 average lost damage).. so accuracy could be worth much more than we're giving it credit... can't really tell without spreadsheets/sims I suppose it is all preference really. Reduced heat on my Railshot means many of my high cost DPS skills (TD, Unload, flame-burst) I can use more abundantly in a fight. It is easier heat-maintenence vs. reduced CD on explosive fuel (you may get an additional fuel usage in a fight lasting 5 minutes) and only 8% more railshot damage, which I would consider to be great except the Elim gear I think caters to more Surge, meaning higher crits across all my abilities. I would love to see spreadsheets and DPS whenever some patriotic player decides to spend days compiling gear, but for now, I think my DPS is just fine the way it is going into hard-mode OPs and beyond. As for Accuracy, I do believe it is valued pretty much the highest still past the tech cap, which is interesting to research and find out what exactly PTs should build ACC towards, ranged or tech cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratito Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) I use that 4/6/31 build. I'm debating on dropping Prototype Cyclinders and the fire crit and taking the aim boost in the ST Tree.. simply because my aim is about 1500 right now..which would be an increase of ~140 aim which might overtake the value of crit.. because I'd gain around 1% to crit for ranged and tech, as well as the power boost that 150 aim provides. if you remove points in (1)Prototype Cyclinders and (2)prototype burn enhancers (fire crit) u gain 3 points back.. right? 4/6/31 -> 7/3/31 How do you will get 3/3 Steely Resolve (aim boost) ?? you need 8pt in the ShieldTech to get 3/3 aim boost 1500 + 6% (2/3 Steely Resolve) = 90 aim not 140 as you say well.. sry for my english Edited February 1, 2012 by Ratito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericdjobs Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I suppose it is all preference really. Reduced heat on my Railshot means many of my high cost DPS skills (TD, Unload, flame-burst) I can use more abundantly in a fight. It is easier heat-maintenence vs. reduced CD on explosive fuel (you may get an additional fuel usage in a fight lasting 5 minutes) and only 8% more railshot damage, which I would consider to be great except the Elim gear I think caters to more Surge, meaning higher crits across all my abilities. I would love to see spreadsheets and DPS whenever some patriotic player decides to spend days compiling gear, but for now, I think my DPS is just fine the way it is going into hard-mode OPs and beyond. As for Accuracy, I do believe it is valued pretty much the highest still past the tech cap, which is interesting to research and find out what exactly PTs should build ACC towards, ranged or tech cap. Yeah I know it's preference it's just that, at least my experience (Raided/killed everything HM and 4/5 EV NM) Every railshot that I fire, save for the very first one, is free...cooldown on railshot is 15s, 10 GCDs... Flame Burst has a 30% chance and Rocket Punch has a 45% chance to make railshot free... I just can't see how it would be worth it, at least for raid DPS (extended fights) if you remove points in (1)Prototype Cyclinders and (2)prototype burn enhancers (fire crit) u gain 3 points back.. right? 4/6/31 -> 7/3/31 How do you will get 3/3 Steely Resolve (aim boost) ?? you need 8pt in the ShieldTech to get 3/3 aim boost 1500 + 6% (2/3 Steely Resolve) = 90 aim not 140 as you say well.. sry for my english WHen you go that route you also remove Thermal Detonator... but I'm still not convinced... TD's dmg per heat is actually really high, and it scales very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykper Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Yeah I know it's preference it's just that, at least my experience (Raided/killed everything HM and 4/5 EV NM) Every railshot that I fire, save for the very first one, is free...cooldown on railshot is 15s, 10 GCDs... Flame Burst has a 30% chance and Rocket Punch has a 45% chance to make railshot free... I just can't see how it would be worth it, at least for raid DPS (extended fights) I don't speak of the 'free' railshots from the procs of FB and RP, I am speaking of the heat cost (it innately costs 16 heat, but refunds 8 heat if specced into pyro correctly if it hits a burning target). The 4 piece elim further reduces the heat cost of rail shot down to 8, meaning that as long as my target is burning, every rail shot I shoot literally no heat 'free' railshots. Think I misinterpreted what you meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korevas Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) No, he meant that the flame burst proc will reset rail shots cooldown and make the next one free. As long as you don't get the full 15 seconds without a proc of superheated rail, you will not get anything from that set bonus besides a cost reduction on your first rail shot. and proccing not even a single railshot is very unlikely, as long as you keep flamebursting all the time, there is a 9^0.7 (~4%) chance to actually not get a proc from it, and thats if you don't even use rocket punch, which you should. Edited February 1, 2012 by Korevas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apnixx Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I disagree that Pyro has poor heat management because if your geared/stated correctly if you burn hard enough to get full heat your pulling aggro. I have no problem with heat management in EV and can still pull aggro if I'm not really careful. I'm not saying AP is bad, it depends which your more comfortable with, but coming here and saying Pyro is bad for raiding is ill informed and ignorant Edited February 2, 2012 by apnixx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnitemonster Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I disagree that Pyro has poor heat management because if your geared/stated correctly if you burn hard enough to get full hit your pulling aggro. I have no problem with heat management in EV and can still pull aggro if I'm not really careful. I'm not saying AP is bad, it depends which your more comfortable with, but coming here and saying Pyro is bad for raiding is ill informed and ignorant Everyone keeps saying this. But I have not seen an EV boss rotations on here for Pyro. Is it supposed to be a secret, or did I miss it somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badalchemist Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Everyone keeps saying this. But I have not seen an EV boss rotations on here for Pyro. Is it supposed to be a secret, or did I miss it somewhere? It's impossible to provide a set rotation because you have a) abilities with different cooldowns b) abilities whose cooldowns can be randomly reduced or reset c) the heat mechanic. My take: The priority is to keep heat at maximum regeneration, fire off Rail Shot whenever it's up, favor Rocket Punch over Flame Burst because it has a higher chance to proc a Rail Shot refresh, and maintain the Incendiary Missile DoT. Unload/Flamethrower/Thermal Detonator are used in burn situations (e.g. you popped your adrenal/relic/Explosive Fuel and either the boss is about to die or you have Vent Heat available), when you're well below the threshold of going into a lower heat regen rate, or in combination with Thermal Sensor Override. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apnixx Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Everyone keeps saying this. But I have not seen an EV boss rotations on here for Pyro. Is it supposed to be a secret, or did I miss it somewhere? Like said above a set rotation isnt going to happen, you play it by ear, however a few things I know some people do wrong, dont burn so you have full heat and then think Vent is going to make things alright, venting from full you still wont have max heat regen, so try and keep it as low as possible (except for burn phases in which you've poped everything). There is no magic bullet to playing any class correctly its how comfortable you are with it, if your not comfortable with Pyro run AP but dont say Pyro is bad because YOU cant do it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vauleen Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It's impossible to provide a set rotation because you have a) abilities with different cooldowns b) abilities whose cooldowns can be randomly reduced or reset c) the heat mechanic. My take: The priority is to keep heat at maximum regeneration, fire off Rail Shot whenever it's up, favor Rocket Punch over Flame Burst because it has a higher chance to proc a Rail Shot refresh, and maintain the Incendiary Missile DoT. Unload/Flamethrower/Thermal Detonator are used in burn situations (e.g. you popped your adrenal/relic/Explosive Fuel and either the boss is about to die or you have Vent Heat available), when you're well below the threshold of going into a lower heat regen rate, or in combination with Thermal Sensor Override. +1 Keeping your heat under 40% is ideal. Any higher and you start losing dps trying to get your heat levels back down and under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chainsawsamurai Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) +1 Keeping your heat under 40% is ideal. Any higher and you start losing dps trying to get your heat levels back down and under control. Unless Vent Heat is off cooldown, in that case you should be trying to red line. That's the best part about Pyro, it essentially turns Vent Heat into your most effective DPS cooldown. The PPA procs make much more effective use of aggressive heat usage than the other trees. Edited February 2, 2012 by chainsawsamurai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apnixx Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Unless Vent Heat is off cooldown, in that case you should be trying to red line. That's the best part about Pyro, it essentially turns Vent Heat into your most effective DPS cooldown. The PPA procs make much more effective use of aggressive heat usage than the other trees. See this is exactly what I was talking about above Redlining and then using Vent gimps your dps. Why? because venting at full heat dosnt drop you down to max regen, your better off venting when it will and continuing from there, you'll get a steadier burn (See what i did there?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericdjobs Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 See this is exactly what I was talking about above Redlining and then using Vent gimps your dps. Why? because venting at full heat dosnt drop you down to max regen, your better off venting when it will and continuing from there, you'll get a steadier burn (See what i did there?) Yep. I've found the most effective use of Vent Heat is during burn phases and I use it when I have 50-60 heat. This resets it back down to practically 0 after the GCD and I can continue on from there, but managing heat. WHen there's no burn phases in sight I use it as part of my variable rotation on cooldown to increase the rate at which I can use abilities for a given period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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