Leave space combat alone!

[Jamus_Divinus]

Don't get me wrong. I like the current space game. Howver I know it can be so much better.

 

The current version is labelled by many as simplistic. Again, I like it but a space sim like SWG had is pure magic imo. If Bioware are intending to give us a space sim I'll be like a pig in sith.

 

My opinion/hope is based on close to 4,000 hours spent in space (SWG's space to be precise).

[shepardcomander]

reposting in hopes you'll get it

 

 

I’m making a AAA MMO, I have a budget of 200 million dollars, my target audience is the MMO genre that exists in the market today. I do my research, for years, looking at history of what worked and what didn’t. I’m going to include the most popular game play by today’s standard that’s going to appeal to the largest fan base to increase my chance of success. I release my product…

 

… it doesn’t have a flight sim. Why is that?

 

Because MMO players don’t like flight sims. Sure there are a few handful of overlapped customers that favors flight sims but they’re not really my target audience.

 

OR... the argument could be made that a modern day mmorpg must have all the conventions of the most popular mmorpg PLUS something EXTRA to lure players away or else people will keep playing their established characters on the most popular mmorpg. Meaningful space combat could have been that extra...

[loanstarr]

How old are you? Like 12? You need to provide links because you're making statements based on assumptions. You can't walk up to some random guy on the street and say that he broke into your house just because he looks a bit dodgy. The same thing applies here.

If you cant grasp that basic concept then its no surprise to me that you are entertained by this part of the game. You should go and play connect four or whatever it is that children play these days and let the adults around here discuss this properly by providing evidence to back up their statements.

 

yea i get you feel superior to everybody else and that anyone who disagrees with you is a 12 year old.

 

This game was made without a flight sim because most MMO players don't like them. sorry the truth makes u angry

[madmarsh]

reposting in hopes you'll get it

 

 

I’m making a AAA MMO, I have a budget of 200 million dollars, my target audience is the MMO genre that exists in the market today. I do my research, for years, looking at history of what worked and what didn’t. I’m going to include the most popular game play by today’s standard that’s going to appeal to the largest fan base to increase my chance of success. I release my product…

 

… it doesn’t have a flight sim. Why is that?

 

Because MMO players don’t like flight sims. Sure there are a few handful of overlapped customers that favors flight sims but they’re not really my target audience.

 

one: this isnt real data no link no quote no nutin.

 

two: there are plenty of popular space mmos out there eve was one of the top ten best mmos

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/3383

[madmarsh]

yea i get you feel superior to everybody else and that anyone who disagrees with you is a 12 year old.

 

This game was made without a flight sim because most MMO players don't like them. sorry the truth makes u angry

 

how do you know most mmo players dont like flight sims?

[Jamus_Divinus]

This game was made without a flight sim because most MMO players don't like them. sorry the truth makes u angry

 

Respectfully, the above line is fiction.

 

We don't know why.

 

We don't know why the game launched without a customizable UI.

 

We don't know why the game launched without a Guild Bank or any guild features.

 

We don't know why the game launched without Pazaak.

 

We don't know why the game launched without same gender NPC romance.

 

We don't know why the game launched without a space simulator in place.

 

 

...We can guess though

 

My guess is on 'ran out of time...went for the quick version'.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Jamus_Divinus

[madmarsh]

Respectfully, the above line is fiction.

 

We don't know why.

 

We don't know why the game launched without a customizable UI.

 

We don't know why the game launched without a Guild bank or any guild features.

 

We don't know why the game launched without Pazaak.

 

We don't know why the game launched without same gender NPC romance.

 

We don't know why the game launched without a Space sim in place.

 

 

...We can guess though

 

My guess is on 'ran out of time...went for the quick version'.

thats what i think too they ran out of time to give us something good

[JacenHallis]

reposting in hopes you'll get it

 

 

I’m making a AAA MMO, I have a budget of 200 million dollars, my target audience is the MMO genre that exists in the market today. I do my research, for years, looking at history of what worked and what didn’t. I’m going to include the most popular game play by today’s standard that’s going to appeal to the largest fan base to increase my chance of success. I release my product…

 

… it doesn’t have a flight sim. Why is that?

 

Because MMO players don’t like flight sims. Sure there are a few handful of overlapped customers that favors flight sims but they’re not really my target audience.

 

"We want to focus on the ground game" does not equate to "MMO players hate flight sims."

 

One of those statements was a stated reason for their implementation of the current space combat game. The other is pure conjecture based on a flawed reading of corporate motives. I'll let you figure out on your own which is which.

[loanstarr]

Originally Posted by Jamus_Divinus

Respectfully, the above line is fiction.

 

We don't know why.

 

We don't know why the game launched without a customizable UI.

 

We don't know why the game launched without a Guild bank or any guild features.

 

We don't know why the game launched without Pazaak.

 

We don't know why the game launched without same gender NPC romance.

 

We don't know why the game launched without a Space sim in place.

 

 

...We can guess though

 

My guess is on 'ran out of time...went for the quick version'.

 

 

I can guess too. They released the game with the most popular features for the audience. and that list is full of stuff most people dont care about. see how that works?

[Jamus_Divinus]

Originally Posted by Jamus_Divinus

Respectfully, the above line is fiction.

 

We don't know why.

 

We don't know why the game launched without a customizable UI.

 

We don't know why the game launched without a Guild bank or any guild features.

 

We don't know why the game launched without Pazaak.

 

We don't know why the game launched without same gender NPC romance.

 

We don't know why the game launched without a Space sim in place.

 

 

...We can guess though

 

My guess is on 'ran out of time...went for the quick version'.

 

 

I can guess too. They released the game with the most popular features for the audience. and that list is full of stuff most people dont care about. see how that works?

 

Ah mate, i wasn't having a go. I was pointing out that we simply don't know the reasoning because Bioware haven't openly stated what that reason was.

 

All we can do is speculate. You speculated and so did I. You may be right, as may I.

 

Opinion and speculation...what 99% of any MMO forums are about...in my opinion

[cocun]

yea i get you feel superior to everybody else and that anyone who disagrees with you is a 12 year old.

 

This game was made without a flight sim because most MMO players don't like them. sorry the truth makes u angry

 

Its not 'everyone else' its just you.

 

'Its this way because I say it is' isn't truth its an assumption. You know the way to turn assumprions into truth? You provide evidence. Since you aren't providing any, you are just another person who knows that he/she is wrong and is making more assumptions in the pathetic hope that people will just accept what you are saying. Therefore, I'm treating you like a 12 year old because that is the way that you're acting.

 

Anyway, I'm done with this because nothing that anyone is saying is getting through to you.

[loanstarr]

"We want to focus on the ground game"

…because it’s an MMO

does not equate to "MMO players hate flight sims."

if you want to play a flight sim I assume you’ll go buy one. The original point was about resources being wasted on revamping space combat. And that I currently like it the way it is.

based on a flawed reading of corporate motives.

How so? Almost all MMO’s are made without flight sims. You can’t deduce something from that?

[madmarsh]

…because it’s an MMO

 

if you want to play a flight sim I assume you’ll go buy one. The original point was about resources being wasted on revamping space combat. And that I currently like it the way it is.

 

that?

 

how would resources be wasted i could bring new ppl to the game or make the ppl already here stay longer? ever think of that?

[loanstarr]

Its not 'everyone else' its just you.

 

'Its this way because I say it is' isn't truth its an assumption. You know the way to turn assumprions into truth? You provide evidence. Since you aren't providing any, you are just another person who knows that he/she is wrong and is making more assumptions in the pathetic hope that people will just accept what you are saying. Therefore, I'm treating you like a 12 year old because that is the way that you're acting.

 

Anyway, I'm done with this because nothing that anyone is saying is getting through to you.

 

this is not a court of law, i dont need to produce facts to come to a reasonable conclusion. I'm just having a discussion about the game. People accept things to be true based on the available information they have everyday. I mean i dont work in the industry and have spreadsheets with numbers on them but i dont need that to come to a conclusion based on whats out there. I'm baffled people are struggling with this concept

[JacenHallis]

How so? Almost all MMO’s are made without flight sims. You can’t deduce something from that?

Almost all MMOs aren't based on an IP where space combat is a huge part of the source material. There is a space battle in every Star Wars movie. Every one. When Lucas made the original Star Wars, he had his team meticulously research WWII fighter combat because he wanted to evoke that feeling of up-close dogfighting in the movie. That type of space combat is a huge part of the Star Wars mythos.

 

There's also the fact that TOR is about fantasy fulfillment, as I posted earlier. While I can be Han Solo or Jango Fett, I can't be Wedge Antilles. I want to be Wedge.

 

Resources spent making a new space game would not be wasted. And, while you may like the current space game, no one is suggesting that it be removed. Understand that. No one is suggesting that you be denied your fun. You are suggesting that the rest of us be denied a core facet of Star Wars.

[madmarsh]

this is not a court of law, i dont need to produce facts to come to a reasonable conclusion. I'm just having a discussion about the game. People accept things to be true based on the available information they have everyday. I mean i dont work in the industry and have spreadsheets with numbers on them but i dont need that to come to a conclusion based on whats out there. I'm baffled people are struggling with this concept

 

so your saying because this isnt court you dont need proof.

so i can say unicorn exist and it makes them exist because this isnt court right?

wow i love the internet.

[shepardcomander]

…because it’s an MMO

 

if you want to play a flight sim I assume you’ll go buy one. The original point was about resources being wasted on revamping space combat. And that I currently like it the way it is.

 

How so? Almost all MMO’s are made without flight sims. You can’t deduce something from that?

 

Then there's absolutely zero risk in bioware putting out a fair and unbiased poll to their player base as to what type of content should be given number one develpement priority then?

[Notsensible]

so your saying because this isnt court you dont need proof.

so i can say unicorn exist and it makes them exist because this isnt court right?

wow i love the internet.

 

What's right in my mind is what's right in everyones mind. Now I suggest you go ride off on your unicorn before something bad happens to ya. We don't take kindly to logic around here.

[Deewe]

Originally Posted by Jamus_Divinus

Respectfully, the above line is fiction.

 

We don't know why.

 

We don't know why the game launched without a customizable UI.

 

We don't know why the game launched without a Guild bank or any guild features.

 

We don't know why the game launched without Pazaak.

 

We don't know why the game launched without same gender NPC romance.

 

We don't know why the game launched without a Space sim in place.

 

 

...We can guess though

 

My guess is on 'ran out of time...went for the quick version'.

 

 

I can guess too. They released the game with the most popular features for the audience. and that list is full of stuff most people dont care about. see how that works?

Don't think so,

 

A better guess would be most of the money and time went into the story, tying everything around it.

 

So everything else felt minor to the devs as could be fixed later on because while you can't really redo V.O. story improving an UI or adding guild banks is a peanut compared to the V.O.

 

There's a fun pic summarizing it: 90% of the eggs in the story basket, 9% into the rest and 1 single broken egg to space sim.

 

Where they were wrong is players wanted V.O. on top equivalent content of others AAA MMO topped with high polish. SWTOR fails to have at least what you can find on the other games.

[DrakmarMoradrin]

I have just one thought:

 

I'm in space. SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE.

 

Dad, are you space?

 

Yes son, I am space.

[Deewe]

BTW here's what would have done the trick.

 

You can start drooling.

[loanstarr]

so your saying because this isnt court you dont need proof.

so i can say unicorn exist and it makes them exist because this isnt court right?

wow i love the internet.

 

.see "reasonable conclusion". again does logic and reason not exist in your world?

[gurugeorge]

I don’t get people’s desire for BW to bolt on a flight simulator to this MMO. Why create a complete stand alone game inside one of a different genre? If I want a flight sim i’ll go buy one.

 

Suggestions of free form flight and off rails would just increase the difficulty of play. Does anyone really want to use their whole keyboard or have to go buy a flight stick to play space combat? What makes it so great right now is the simplicity of its controls. Right now it’s easy to understand and get engaged in. I don’t want to have to memorize 10 – 15 different keys just to be able to play it.

 

I’m enjoying space combat as a way to gain exp between worlds. I like how it only takes 5 – 10 min of my time and the controls are not overly complicated. Imo the mini game already has enough depth with the ship being customizable and the missions being very challenging. Sure I’ll get bored of them sometime in the future but BW has already stated they’ll be adding more so I don’t see a problem with that.

 

And what if by BW revamping space combat increases lag or fps issues? There are none right now, space combat works seamlessly. For me, PVP at times is completely unplayable, I would hate to see space combat become that way.

 

So BW please do not make it more complicated or difficult to control space combat, I like it the way it is now

 

I like the combat as it is, but what it is should be a tutorial that eases you into a more complex space PART of a total MMO that includes ground and space as integral features (e.g. missions where you do part on ground, part in space - e.g. chase some baddies from the planet to an asteroid, for example).

 

IOW, just as the ground game starts you off with a few simple controls, and gets more complex as you master them, so should the space game start as it is, and give you more freedom and more options as it progresses, till eventually it's a fully fledged space game that's part of a total SW experience.

 

That would be my ideal anyway.

[DarthKhaos]

I don't think the people wanting full space sim is saying to remove the mini game though.

 

You can have both!

Edited January 29, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[Droidist]

I was playing the space game side of things until about lvl 35ish, then it got hard and I found it frustrating instead of fun..., which is what it was at first - you actually felt epic - now other people play it and I don't... so I guess I could care less what they do with space combat at this point, as long as the people who play it like it I guess.