Leave space combat alone!

[gregordunbar]

I read the entirety of the thread so I do understand where you are coming from, I 100% disagree with your assumption so no additional explanation is necessary.

 

Right, you read everything, ignore all the posts of those that are agreeing with what im saying, reply to me saying im doing something im not and on top of it state that its just me thats doing it. then follow up with you dont need to explain yourself.

 

I have been resoundingly refuted and proved wrong.

 

The funniest thing about it, if you could actually form a good argument, and not do the things you guys are doing you more than likely would gain more support from people that like the current space combat system...all you are doing by forming crazy arguments and going on tirades is turning people against you.

 

Need to learn to let go and allow others to take on side discussions connected to the topic and focus on your own points because this current discussion is not about if Bioware should create a few open space areas or not. Congrats on missing that.

[gregordunbar]

Well Greg, I guess you and I are just going to have to agree that we disagree on this subject. I've been playing MMO's since a 286 processor was to of the line and in every MMO I have played, there has always been discussion by players wondering when a decent (key word decent) space based MMO would come out.

 

No.

 

the 286, also known as the intel 80286 was top of the line until the mid 80s when the 80386 came out.

 

No MMORPG players were wondering when a space MMO was going to come out (which isnt even what we are talking about, we are talking about FLIGHT SIM COMBAT) because the FIRST graphic MMORPG was NWNO in 1991 on American Online. This is why you fail. You are trying too hard to take what you want and apply it to all MMORPG players.

There was no need at all for you to lie like that...and a crazy one on top of it.

 

This isnt about your personal opinion. This is about you telling that guy he is wrong when he said MOST MMO players dont like space sim combat. Not you. Not what you want or like, most MMORPG players...and there are many millions of them MOST of them didnt start playing MMORPGS until Lineage came out and MOST OF THEM ONLY PLAY FANTASY GAMES and more than likly have no desire to play space combat anything which only proves him more correct.

 

Most MMO players dont like flight sim combat.

[commonperson]

Do you see what im getting at? You dont represent the entire community.

 

That's the thing nor do you, I'm an "older" player and remember playing X-Wing, Tie Fighter and X-wing vs. Tie Fighter when they came out on my old beast of a PC. This "mini-game" is a call back to the Rogue Squadren games and I think it's pretty fun. I'd love to have "free form space combat' but it's not something that was needed at launch and if they do impliment it they should leave existing combat in as is, have them residing side by side. For me space combat is a way for me to earn credits and experience when I want to just relax a bit. Blow of some steam after wading through the pile of corpses my sabres leave behind.

 

I have no problem with people wanting change but there are people who like this (myself included) and complexity does not create greatness. :-)

[Minack]

using out of context logic to discredit in context logic, your point has no point. you cant do it any other way for a reason, you are not standing on solid ground.

 

The argument point still stands. most MMO players do not like flight sim combat. there are no numbers to back up that they do going back to the mid 90s when MMORPGs went 3D graphics.

 

Not one single MMO with flight sim combat has come close to the popularity of those without it. Provide actual numbers not opinions...and at NO POINT did I even HINT that your personal opinion of liking them was not valid.

 

Bioware chose not to do it, chose to go with actual action based space combat and the last time I checked, space combat got good reviews.

 

The industry has spoken...and seeing as how my spaceship parts keep selling on the GTN, so have players.

 

And yet there is thread after thread of people asking for something similar to that...

 

Once again, you are IGNORING every other factor that makes a game popular.

 

As far as space parts go lol, that's an issue with crafting being worthless outside of biochem. I did all my space missions using the crap I bought of the space vendors at the starports. Besides, the current system is on Rails, not 3 dimensional. Maybe people aren't buying your parts because Space is inconsequential in this game. Thanks for helping to prove a lot of peoples' point.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Minack

[anedorivan]

I personally would like for free flight space combat to be added to the game. We could move the current mini game to a arcade machine in every cantina so people who enjoy the current form could still play it.

[Saitada]

No.

 

the 286, also known as the intel 80286 was top of the line until the mid 80s when the 80386 came out.

 

No MMORPG players were wondering when a space MMO was going to come out (which isnt even what we are talking about, we are talking about FLIGHT SIM COMBAT) because the FIRST graphic MMORPG was NWNO in 1991 on American Online. This is why you fail. You are trying too hard to take what you want and apply it to all MMORPG players.

There was no need at all for you to lie like that...and a crazy one on top of it.

 

This isnt about your personal opinion. This is about you telling that guy he is wrong when he said MOST MMO players dont like space sim combat. Not you. Not what you want or like, most MMORPG players...and there are many millions of them MOST of them didnt start playing MMORPGS until Lineage came out and MOST OF THEM ONLY PLAY FANTASY GAMES and more than likly have no desire to play space combat anything which only proves him more correct.

 

Most MMO players dont like flight sim combat.

 

I've been playing ONLINE GAMES (sorry, we are talking MMO's so when I think of online games, all of them, even BBS based games that don't strictly fit he term MMO, become MMO's in my mind) since the 286 processor was top of the line (i.e. 1984). My first was Tradewars2002 (a space themed BBS game). When I went looking for MMO's, the first one I discovered was EQ. If there had been any space based MMO's out then and I had discovered them before starting EQ, I would have played them. Instead, I was stuck playing what was available. And this is my point entirely.

 

It's what is available, not necessarily what is wanted.

 

Nuff said. I have chicken to grill.

 

~S

 

P.S. Please don't call me a liar again. I may be many things, but liar is not one of them. Thank you.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Saitada

[AJMTL]

Space combat as it is is nothing short of a sloppy/lazy attempt at placating the masses.

 

I mean come on... the only difference between the factions is the ships, and switched enemy skins.

 

ANY addition to it would be positive at this point.

[TyHeaton]

I don’t get people’s desire for BW to bolt on a flight simulator to this MMO. Why create a complete stand alone game inside one of a different genre? If I want a flight sim i’ll go buy one.

 

Suggestions of free form flight and off rails would just increase the difficulty of play. Does anyone really want to use their whole keyboard or have to go buy a flight stick to play space combat? What makes it so great right now is the simplicity of its controls. Right now it’s easy to understand and get engaged in. I don’t want to have to memorize 10 – 15 different keys just to be able to play it.

 

I’m enjoying space combat as a way to gain exp between worlds. I like how it only takes 5 – 10 min of my time and the controls are not overly complicated. Imo the mini game already has enough depth with the ship being customizable and the missions being very challenging. Sure I’ll get bored of them sometime in the future but BW has already stated they’ll be adding more so I don’t see a problem with that.

 

And what if by BW revamping space combat increases lag or fps issues? There are none right now, space combat works seamlessly. For me, PVP at times is completely unplayable, I would hate to see space combat become that way.

 

So BW please do not make it more complicated or difficult to control space combat, I like it the way it is now

 

I agree 100%! I love the current space system.

[TyHeaton]

So because you are satisfied with mediocrity you are urging a company to not listen to numerous requests of a space combat revamp?

 

For every person who says that the current system is mediocre or bad, there are just as many who like what's already there. You can't say that they're "satisfied with mediocrity" just because they like something different than you.

[gregordunbar]

And yet there is thread after thread of people asking for something similar to that...

 

Once again, you are IGNORING every other factor that makes a game popular.

 

As far as space parts go lol, that's an issue with crafting being worthless outside of biochem. I did all my space missions using the crap I bought of the space vendors at the starports. Besides, the current system is on Rails, not 3 dimensional. Maybe people aren't buying your parts because Space is inconsequential in this game. Thanks for helping to prove a lot of peoples' point.

 

I agree, there is thread after thread with people asking for it and in every thread there are people saying they like it as it is. Thats not at issue and I never said the game couldnt use an open space zone or two.

 

as for the rest of what you said...you contradicted your second sentence with the rest of your post by laughing at my items selling, dismissing it because crafting is bad and that you bought yours from vendors.

 

So tell me, since you are only talking facts here. How is it that my items are only selling because the crafting system sucks and proof of that is that you bought all yours from a vendor? Oh wait, because you read what you wanted to read and not whats there...my parts ARE SELLING WELL

 

The industry has spoken...and seeing as how my spaceship parts keep selling on the GTN, so have players.

 

Stop trying so hard to discredit me, you are making yourself look bad...lol

[gregordunbar]

I've been playing ONLINE GAMES since the 286 processor was top of the line (i.e. 1984). My first was Tradewars2002 (a space themed BBS game).

 

Tradewars was fun.

 

It still was not an MMO, in fact you could play it completely against computer players. There is no game you can mention playing to make your post credible, the first MMORPG with graphics was NWNO and falls out of your idea that when the 286 was top of the line, MMO players wanted a space flight sim MMO.

 

You cant backpeddle out of that one.

 

You are trying to hard to tie your wanting free form space combat(which is not my issue) with trying to make it sound like most of the over 20 million MMORPG players in the world wanting it (which is my issue).

[quantumsheep]

Well they could keep everyone happy.

 

Revamp space completely so it is another whole MMO within this one.

 

Those that like ground MMOing can stick to that, those that like space MMO can do that, those that like both can do that and finally the people that like the arcade MSM bowling type space combat can have arcade machines installed in the cantinas to break up your day!

 

Everyones happy!

 

Its win win!

 

Bang on!

 

I enjoyed the Space Combat at the start, but have found it's become... laborious.

 

Especially as we can upgrade our equipment. I've found on some missions I've completed the objectives and have three minutes to wait for the mission to end.

 

Perhaps a 'calculate light speed' button can be enabled once all objectives are done would help get us out of a mission the moment it's completed. Rather than having to wait around.

 

Also, I loved the space flight in SWG - in a guild, having four or five ships flying in loose formation against the enemy felt cinematic like nothing else, really. It was awesome!

 

So yeah. Let's have something for everyone. Keep the system as is for those that do enjoy it as is.

 

Add 'non tunnel' missions for those that want them. And the ability to fly around too.

 

Everyone's happy, right?

 

Right?

 

QS

Edited January 29, 2012 by quantumsheep

[gregordunbar]

So yeah. Let's have something for everything. Keep the system as is for those that do enjoy it as is.

 

Add 'non tunnel' missions for those that want them. And the ability to fly around too.

 

Everyone's happy, right?

 

Right?

 

 

Right.

[Minack]

I agree, there is thread after thread with people asking for it and in every thread there are people saying they like it as it is. Thats not at issue and I never said the game couldnt use an open space zone or two.

 

as for the rest of what you said...you contradicted your second sentence with the rest of your post by laughing at my items selling, dismissing it because crafting is bad and that you bought yours from vendors.

 

So tell me, since you are only talking facts here. How is it that my items are only selling because the crafting system sucks and proof of that is that you bought all yours from a vendor? Oh wait, because you read what you wanted to read and not whats there...my parts ARE SELLING WELL

 

 

 

Stop trying so hard to discredit me, you are making yourself look bad...lol

 

I'm not trying to discredit you, but you seem to take it personally when I ask for some more evidence of MMO players not liking flight sims simply because the industry hasn't made many. That's exactly like me saying MMO players do not like Star Wars because only two Star Wars MMOs have ever been made. I can tell you're getting mad though.

[Saitada]

Tradewars was fun.

 

It still was not an MMO, in fact you could play it completely against computer players. There is no game you can mention playing to make your post credible, the first MMORPG with graphics was NWNO and falls out of your idea that when the 286 was top of the line, MMO players wanted a space flight sim MMO.

 

You cant backpeddle out of that one.

 

You are trying to hard to tie your wanting free form space combat(which is not my issue) with trying to make it sound like most of the over 20 million MMORPG players in the world wanting it (which is my issue).

 

No, actually I tied an ONLINE GAME into the discussion of MMO's. Since I have been playing ONLINE GAMES there has ALWAYS been discussion wondering when something really decent would come out. When MMO's came out, the discussion turned to when a decent space themed MMO would be released. As the genre continued to be almost totally fantasy filled, that discussion continued.

 

You were not a part of those discussion. I was. So please don't make the assumption that I am a liar like you did in your previous post.

 

I know what discussions I had. You don't. I may be many things, but a liar is not one of them.

 

~Saitada

 

*Now I have to go flip my Chicken over*

 

*edit* I am also not saying that all 20 million+ MMO players in the world want to play space themed combat etc. Those are your words, not mine. What I did say is that I believe there is a lot more interest in said themed games, than you think. Again, please don't put words in my mouth that I did not myself speak. I don't appreciate it.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Saitada

[HCGxKaLiBeR]

Somewhat like Star Trek Online would be cool. You can fight on planets and in space.

as well as space PVP, new starships, new modules, etc..

[gregordunbar]

I'm not trying to discredit you.

 

Odd how you continually reply to me by ignoring points made, acting like im the only one arguing this side and even changing what I post...and of course now assuming im becoming angry...hmm, maybe troll? Guess that would be about all that makes sense about your posts.

[Minack]

Odd how you continually reply to me by ignoring points made, acting like im the only one arguing this side and even changing what I post...and of course now assuming im becoming angry...hmm, maybe troll? Guess that would be about all that makes sense about your posts.

 

What did I change from your posts? I can tell you're becoming angry just by reading your replies. If my posts didn't make sense you wouldn't have replied. Look, we disagree, there's no reason to get upset though.

[gregordunbar]

No, actually I tied an ONLINE GAME into the discussion of MMO's.

 

no...back...peddling...out...of...this...one.

 

I've been playing MMO's since a 286 processor was top of the line and in every MMO I have played, there has always been discussion by players wondering when a decent (key word decent) space based MMO would come out.

 

You clearly tried to make it sound like you are an authority, and that MMOs go back to the mid 80s with people wanting what you want right now. Now you have a double lie. you stated they were MMOs, then tried to had it and said online games.

 

You are trying to hard to attach your opinion with the majority as if there were upwards of 10 million people out there (there are over 20 million MMORPG players in the world) that the gaming industry would not try to tap by not making an MMORPG for them.

 

This is what you are arguing here, that over 50% of the people that play every single MMORPG on the planet likes flight sim combat...you are wrong.

 

The choice is, you are right and every game company is wrong OR you are wrong and the industry is right.

[gregordunbar]

What did I change from your posts? I can tell you're becoming angry just by reading your replies. If my posts didn't make sense you wouldn't have replied. Look, we disagree, there's no reason to get upset though.

 

ok, now I know you are trolling. Not bad, I give you a 7 out of 10.

[Xumagai]

You are trying to hard to tie your wanting free form space combat(which is not my issue) with trying to make it sound like most of the over 20 million MMORPG players in the world wanting it (which is my issue).

 

I'm not sure where you ever got that I was getting you wrong, it would appear to me that you are a rampant defender of BW's mistakes (i.e. this space system that is more movie than game), If i was confusing you with someone else then I apologize. I still don't think 20 million mmo players opinions across the world have anything to do with something that is already in game, your point is moot. You also seem to be saying that this demographic does not exist, you are wrong. My point is that it's already in game, it's tragic (like much of the rest of the game) and we have to make BW/EA listen or this game is going to die a hardcore death.

 

Then you really will be right. But by your logic mmorpgs shouldn't even be made at all bc more people play "x" or "y". I'm pretty sure mw3 sold 10mil copies in the first day alone, looks like the industry just needs to stop making mmorpgs altogether. the CoD boys beat the hell out of our demographic (they have to call that duty), does that mean that we don't matter??

 

With a three hundred million dollar budget BW/EA had plenty to work with. I never said take it out of the game, but I would rather take out the trash than live with it.

[Sprite]

Bang on!

 

I enjoyed the Space Combat at the start, but have found it's become... laborious.

 

Especially as we can upgrade our equipment. I've found on some missions I've completed the objectives and have three minutes to wait for the mission to end.

 

Perhaps a 'calculate light speed' button can be enabled once all objectives are done would help get us out of a mission the moment it's completed. Rather than having to wait around.

 

Also, I loved the space flight in SWG - in a guild, having four or five ships flying in loose formation against the enemy felt cinematic like nothing else, really. It was awesome!

 

So yeah. Let's have something for everyone. Keep the system as is for those that do enjoy it as is.

 

Add 'non tunnel' missions for those that want them. And the ability to fly around too.

 

Everyone's happy, right?

 

Right?

 

QS

 

 

Four or five ships? I remember space events with over one hundred player ships participating! That was cinematic. And heroic, and everything else an MMO should be. Not to mention all the missions, soloing a corvette for the first time, etc... Space combat should be moving forward in an newer MMO, not taking us back to Descent 3.

 

Oh, and to whoever said SWG closed down due to lack of players... Not true (Vanguard is still going). The license expired. Lucas Arts has zero incentive to have two competing games using their IP, so the license wasn't renewed. Simple economics. My bet is even is SWG had ten times the player base, LA would still have shut it down.

[Minack]

ok, now I know you are trolling. Not bad, I give you a 7 out of 10.

 

No, I honestly want to know where you think I changed your posts.

[gregordunbar]

I'm not sure where you ever got that I was getting you wrong, it would appear to me that you are a rampant defender of BW's mistakes.

 

Click my name, click on my post history.

 

Enjoy your big cup of wrong...you dont even know why im having this discussion and you have ignored the parts of the posts where I stated I have no issue with expanding the current space combat including the very quote you used where it states (its not my issue).

[Saitada]

no...back...peddling...out...of...this...one.

 

 

 

You clearly tried to make it sound like you are an authority, and that MMOs go back to the mid 80s with people wanting what you want right now. Now you have a double lie. you stated they were MMOs, then tried to had it and said online games.

 

You are trying to hard to attach your opinion with the majority as if there were upwards of 10 million people out there (there are over 20 million MMORPG players in the world) that the gaming industry would not try to tap by not making an MMORPG for them.

 

This is what you are arguing here, that over 50% of the people that play every single MMORPG on the planet likes flight sim combat...you are wrong.

 

The choice is, you are right and every game company is wrong OR you are wrong and the industry is right.

 

So let me ask you this. Have you NEVER in your 18 years of life used one word to encompass an entire activity, even when said word doesn't strictly fit all those activities? When I think of MMO's. I think of ALL online games I have played from BBS based games to games like EQ, EVE, STO, AION, etc etc etc etc. That is how I think. Is it strictly true to point? No. However that does NOT make me a liar, and I don't appreciate you calling me one.

 

I also once again, never said the majority of players (those are your words, not mine), I said and I will again repeat myself.. that there is a greater interest in this type of game than you think. because when people are LIMITED to playing something because that is all that is OUT, then of COURSE that is what they will play. If they have more options, then they will play other things.

 

You continually attempt to manipulate what I am saying to mean one thing, when that is not what I am saying. I'm sorry, but quite frankly, I'm done here. You can say what you want. You can continue to attempt to put words in my mouth that I did not say, and you can continue to try to manipulate what I said to mean something different than what I said but that doesn't change that what I said is there is MORE INTEREST for this type of game play than you think. And that since I began playing Online games, this has been an ongoing discussion.

 

Again. I know what discussions I have had. I know that I have had these discussions since I have been playing Online games. I know that I am not alone in the desire to have a much broader space themed game.

 

Now. There has been no back peddling. Just clarification in how I think. Call that what you want, it nevertheless does not make you right.

 

Have a nice day. Politician.

 

~Saitada

Edited January 29, 2012 by Saitada