Truga Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) crafted gear can be sold - therefore crafted best in slot gear can be obtained without clearing content if you have enough gold/credits/whatever. That's why. Why is this bad? Unless mats are insanely rare or hard to acquire crafter gear should never be BIS. Some may disagree with the 'work for gear' approach but IMHO the best gear should only come from PVP and PVE content respectively. Raids need to stop dropping loot and start dropping mats. Problem solved. http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/11/12/massively-interviews-bioware-on-swtors-crafting-and-pvp/ Thank god. This is how crafting in an MMO needs to work. Edited January 27, 2012 by Truga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromiie Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Why is this bad? Raids need to stop dropping loot and start dropping mats. Problem solved. Mats and BiS schematics imo. Your in a guild after all have dedicated crafters make your gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Mats and BiS schematics imo. Your in a guild after all have dedicated crafters make your gear. Or grind raids in pugs, sell mats, buy off auction house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putok Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 crafted gear can be sold - therefore crafted best in slot gear can be obtained without clearing content if you have enough gold/credits/whatever. That's why. Why is that bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Why is that bad? I lol'd at this, read my reply two posts up But yeah, I don't get this either. Who cares if I spend 10 hours grinding space missions or spend 10 hours grinding dailies or spend 10 hours grinding raids. It's still 10 hours of grind to make the cash to get my stuff. Edit: And since raids should be the only source of key mats for BiS gear, _someone_ needs to run those raids, so you can buy your mats to craft or get your gear crafted by someone. Edited January 27, 2012 by Truga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfmiolleh Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 As far as I'm concerened crafting is just a side thing that many enjoy. Like space combat or player housing they are just entertaining things to do but the main focus is PvP and Raiding in this kind of MMORPG. Personally I think the very best gear in this game should come from missions alone. crafting is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhijn Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I think crafted gear should only be unique in the design/customization area (especially orange gear), so people can play dress up with their characters and get a good Star Wars vibe when ever they enter a cutscene or something with friends, or just themself!. xD I know when i play my Sith and look at him im like... ***, robotic piece of crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 As far as I'm concerened crafting is just a side thing that many enjoy. Like space combat or player housing they are just entertaining things to do but the main focus is PvP and Raiding in this kind of MMORPG. Personally I think the very best gear in this game should come from missions alone. crafting is fine. I respectfully disagree. Getting a full drop now and again is certainly OK, and it makes the whole OOH SHINY moment even better, but getting mats, which you can then trade with people for other mats, and eventually get your own gear crafted is 1) Easiest way of not getting ***** with no lube by random number generator. 2) Makes sure you get loot which is best in slot for you, your exact build, spec, playstyle, and has the look you prefer. And if you want to make sure people actually run the content at least once, make the last chest/boss drop a BoP token, which you need to use to bind a piece of gear to your character. No bind, no equip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putok Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I lol'd at this, read my reply two posts up But yeah, I don't get this either. Who cares if I spend 10 hours grinding space missions or spend 10 hours grinding dailies or spend 10 hours grinding raids. It's still 10 hours of grind to make the cash to get my stuff. Edit: And since raids should be the only source of key mats for BiS gear, _someone_ needs to run those raids, so you can buy your mats to craft or get your gear crafted by someone. Lol, great minds? WoW started the whole, "Good gear is only BoP from raid bosses." thing, and I don't know that it was good. I've raided both hardcore and casual since vanilla, I don't hate raiding, but I also enjoyed the way gear worked in DAoC. I understand the idea of people objecting to some random vendor learned recipe with easy to get mats being better than something dropped by a boss they wiped on for three weeks trying to learn. I also don't see why an item with hard to obtain mats, that took 100 man hours and half a million in mats worth of REs to learn should be worse than something dropped from a boss that a random collection of people could probably PUG. If I spend a week crafting non stop to learn a recipe, and another two days to gather the mats, why should the item be any worse than something from a relevant non-nightmare raid, and why should it be BOP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bknemesis Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The idea of best in slot, cookie cutter gear is.. meh.. Most good pvp based games have crafted gear equal to most raid an pvp gear to add options to character customization, raid and pvp gear looked different (better) and slightly different procs or effects that was unique to that piece of equipment, etc.. However, Crafted gear was customizable, able to be tailored to a particular play style or build, and was on par with generic epic gear when paired with that tuned build. Best fix.. let crafters make lvl 50 mods, would let people mix and match oranges and purples and customize them with mods that fit their builds and looks that fit their characters instead of shoehorning everyone into the same stat, same look gear, that everyone will have in a few months due to there not being item attrition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevonDs Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) In answer to your topic question...Because this is a great game where crafting is secondary to questing. Personally I like it that way. Edited January 27, 2012 by DevonDs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaintedSquirrel Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Hmm, I've been spending a fortune keeping all of my orange gear updated every ~4 levels or so, then I check the GTN and find a regular blue item that costs like 2k and has slightly better stats. What the hell. I spent more than 2k just getting the underworld metals to craft ONE mod/armoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The idea of best in slot, cookie cutter gear is.. meh.. There's always a "best in slot" for your current character build. What that best in slot may be is totally up to you, and how you want your character to work, and crafting makes it possible, because you don't get loot tables with over 9000 different items in them, but instead just a handful of different mats, which are combined by a crafter into the item you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundiok Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) For every problem there is a solution - some better than others. So one of the problems that people point out is that if crafted gear is the best gear, than it can be sold and therefore people who have put forth no effort can afford it. First of all, this a problem with a broken in game economy. If a player can afford the outrageous cost of BIS crafted gear, then logically they must have put forth some effort to obtain that amount of money... UNLESS, the economy is broken, which is likely the case. Almost every MMO has a broken economy because of the fact that money or (resources and value) are constantly being created, recirculated and never go away. Think about it.. what happens when a country continues to print money, the value of their dollar depreciates. That is essentially what happens in MMOs, every time you complete a quest, every time you run an instance you are printing more money into the game world. This naturally causes items to inflate. Anyways, jumping off topic . One solution (I'm sure I can spend 20 minutes and come up with a dozen more), is to have the player combine the materials into a crafters quest. What do I mean? So you spend weeks and months raiding, killed all the bosses and you finally have acquired all the materials to have your epic chest crafted. You right click one of the mats in your bag and it checks to see if they are all present and it creates a work order. Now the fun part. I've never seen this before, and I'd be shocked if there were a game out there that had this (aside maybe EVE), but. Lets say you take that work order and you dump it on the GTN, and instead of setting a buyout price on it with intention to sell, you set a Maximum amount you are willing to pay to have someone craft the item for you. Crafters browse the GTN (or town billboards if you're in a fantasy game) and they see a list of work orders. The crafters get to choose what items they want to bid on, and they bid lower than the max the customer is willing to pay, competing for the job, until the auction is over. If the crafter wins, they receive a quest to create the item along with the work order (crafting token or item). They craft a SHELL of the item, not the REAL item, and return to the GTN and complete the quest by fulfilling the work order. This gives them the money they bid on the job, and emails the customer the REAL... BOP item. If they accept the quest and fail to produce the item, the work order is useless to them, and the customer is never charged, the auction re-opens. Just a loose idea, and sure there are loopholes but, you get the point. Just because it hasn't been done before, doesn't mean there aren't other solutions. The problem is, ideas are a dime dozen in the game industry, and innovation=risk. Investors aren't willing to take risks and don't generally understand /have no passion for games. Since they are the ones with the money, they usually win, and in their ignorance we end up with the same homogenous BS over and over. Yup, WOW had 11 million users, make it just like WOW! Sigh. Edited January 27, 2012 by Gundiok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Sigh. Reverse crafting shop. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedhippo Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Crafted gear cannot be the best because this would hurt end game raiding. You have to do endgame group content for the best gear. That is the way it is suppose to be yes, because i love going into the lvl 50 bracket w/o gear and getting steamrolled and not getting any medals. losing 30 games to get one champ bag is definitely satisfying and doesn't make me want to give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akella Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 They can make BiS slot items for crafters where mats come from nightmare mode operations. THat would solve the problem for crafters and the raiders. The crying that would ensue if that ever happened would be immeasurable. There's already crying because biometric alloys drop in hardmode flashpoints. People need to get it into their heads that this isn't SWG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 No, Raids should be the best source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundiok Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 No, Raids should be the best source. Tunnel Vision Much? Why can't it be both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canmore Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 1) Need crafting schematics to drop from raid bosses that are equal to the loot drops . obviously the materials for the droped schematics must have rares that drop only in raid content 2) crafters need the ability to craft better than , the modifications granted in dailies , dailies should not be giving superior items than are craftable , dailies should be there to give a helping hand with cash and mods but not superceeding what can be crafted . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Tunnel Vision Much? Why can't it be both? Cause it would take incentive out of gear oriented game. Endgame PvP and Pve would be pretty much dead and this game would be even more of an solo RPG game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Cause it would take incentive out of gear oriented game. Endgame PvP and Pve would be pretty much dead and this game would be even more of an solo RPG game. How? The only way to craft end-game gear is still by running end-game content, or buying the stuff from someone that's running it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Tunnel Vision Much? Why can't it be both? Raiders come second only to PvP'ers in their uncanny ability to grossly overestimate their value to a games longevity. That's why they get that tunnel vision going. They also don't like to share their "glory", which is why they don't want crafters to be able to improve on any items they get. Edited January 27, 2012 by Zorvan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pythonu Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 OPs idea is just all around stupid. What would be the point of raiding, or high pvp rank. There would be almost no incentive to do either. I'm all for a few items, utilizing large amounts of very very rare crafting mats, and BoA raid drops to craft a BiS weapon, such as WoW did with Thunderfury and what not. But all crafted gear BiS, frig that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahana Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Why cant games get this right? Player crafted gear should be the best possible in game armor. Everything craftable should be the best possible. Still having good gear drop from PvE but being able to break it down into crafting supplies. Or strait up credit rewards or something. After level 50 in this game crafted gear is a waste. Example: If you ever played DAoC and built a template. Crafted gear had to be in the template to get things right. You had drops from PvE in there etc etc but you put Crafted gear in to fill in holes in your stats. I dont really want DAoC style, I loved making templates dont get me wrong but I dont want a stat cap. If I want to put Aim on every single piece and only have Aim as a stats and gimp the rest why cant I do that. (I wouldnt btw) Anyways, I do enjoy the game as it is. Hit 50 last week and my Trooper struggled at first in WZ's but in about half Champ gear now it aint so bad. I like the grind of PvP'ing for something but I dont want it to be gear. Id be happy just PvP'ing for a nerver ending Valor rank. Or PvP for titles for everyone to see. Something like that, you get gear from everything else. Dont need it for PvP. Having crafted gear be the best and able to put what stats you wanted you could make your own sets for both PvE and PvP putting more into End for certain things or Aim for example for PvP. Dont need Expertise either. PvP needs to be SKILL based not gear based. Crafted Gear should NEVER be better than what drops out of operations. Flashpoints, I'm open to discussion. Otherwise there is no mouse wheel for people to pursue and all you have to do is buy/level your way to the optimum gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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