Apax Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) First, I'm not knocking the effort of someone attempting to put up an MMO database site. I appreciate that people do this and in the end anything is better than nothing. However, it is difficult to go from a site like Wowhead (for World of Warcraft) to a site like Torhead or Darthhaterdb and not be disappointed in the results. There is just so little basic (but useful) information available in these databases that I took for granted so long when using sites like Wowhead. If you're looking to find where a specific piece of gear comes from, who drops/sells/crafts it, what else that mob drops/sells, or what the item even looks like, chances are high that you're going to run into a dead end. Even worse, many of these sites seem to include data from beta, showing items or crew schematics that seem to have been removed from the game. You can spend a good chunk of time investigating an item only to eventually start running across evidence elsewhere indicating that the item doesn't actually exist anymore in the live game. The final frustration comes from the fact that (example) a pair of Armored Bantha Jeans looks entirely different depending on which faction (Imperial or Republic) is wearing it. Despite it being the exact same item that is simply available to both factions, the artwork for it changes depending on whether it's being worn by an Imperial character or a Republic character. And since many of these items in the database don't have player submitted screenshots attached to them at this stage (much less screenshots from each faction), you have to go by the artwork in the icon. An icon which, while reasonably accurate, is also based on the faction of the person viewing it. Unfortunately, all of these website databases seem to only show the Imperial icon for these items, and so a Republic player browsing the database may hunt down a particular article of armor thinking it looks cool in the icon shown in the database, only to realize the icon (and item) is completely different once he gets his Republic mitts on it in-game. Because of this strange setup, I would expect these databases to have a toggle to allow you to view the items from an Imperial or Republic perspective, but unless I'm just missing it I don't believe these options exist. Which, I guess brings me to point of this thread. Are there options like this available on the existing database sites that I'm just missing? Is there a database out there that stands above the rest, seems more current, and offers filters to differentiate between Imperial and Republic artwork? Am I the only one leaving these database sites frustrated? EDIT: Screenshot examples and database links provided further down this page. Edited January 26, 2012 by Apax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshalleck Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) It's because there are no mods in SWTOR, so database sites can't automatically track items and rewards and appearances etc...it all has to be datamined and linked by hand. Which, as you can imagine, is an immense amount of work. Edited January 26, 2012 by marshalleck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChipHazard Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Unless players actually provide information for the sites there's little they can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 It's because there are no mods in SWTOR, so database sites can't automatically track items and rewards and appearances etc...it all has to be datamined and linked by hand. This ^ Need to open up the game to mods and data can more easily be gathered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasticles Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I had begun posting on TorHead, screenshots and comments.....then a Screenshot contest was begun, and suddenly, all of my screenies were deleted.... and all met the criteria they post.....so ToRHead can go pound sand...... Tor-loot.com has some promise for what is farmed where gear wise.......no, no relationship to the site..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink_Saber Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Yep, you're sort of barking up the wrong tree. Not having an add-on API is what causes stuff like this, so get to work convincing all those people who are rabidly opposed to them to change their minds. Good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IncognitoCat Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Hi, I am one of the creators of TOR-Loot.com, and I will say that you are right on all counts. I came from WoW myself, and I agree that it is tough to transition to a game that has so much less info (out of game) available to the community. I will say that while our site does use TORHead tooltips, often times I do find the info available on TORHead lacking. For example, last night we got some nice relics with procs out of Karagga's palace. I started to enter them into our site, because I figure this is the type of info people want to see, only to find that the TORHead tooltips don't provide info on the procs (which is the entire point of the item). Blergh. I suppose I will add them anyway and submit comments to TORHead so that if people click the link on TOR-Loot, they will at least be able see what the item does on TORHead. Of course, there are other options available for tooltips (Darth Hater and knotor), both of which have their own drawbacks as well. Here's hoping that TORHead is able to improve some of their data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldisper Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I for one do not want mods telling you what to do or what items a certain boss drops. However....... if you go to the community creation forum a very nice person did just that , a small search,and you should be able to get loot list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apax Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Unless players actually provide information for the sites there's little they can do. This I can understand, and while it is really on the shoulders of the the players to provide screenshot examples of the items, I think it falls squarely on the shoulders of these database sites to take the differences between Republic and Imperial gear into consideration. And, for whatever reason, they're not. The same goes for items that aren't even in the game anymore and haven't been since beta. Heck, it could be that the people who run these sites are simply unaware that there is a difference between Republic and Imperial versions of the same gear to begin with. Someone above mentioned submitting screenshots and having them thrown out. It's very possible that happened because someone complained that the images were incorrect representation of the equipment, without being aware that the same piece of equipment has a different appearance depending on the faction of the player wearing it. In fact, I've run across a few such comments complaining about images on these databases. To be clear, I'll provide an image example of what I'm talking about: Picture of Republic and Imperial versions of the same gear. The image above shows an Imperial and Republic version of "Ancient Seeker's Headgear", and an Imperial and Republic version of "[Prototype] Visionary Headgear". As you can see, despite being exactly the same item they look completely different depending on whether you're viewing them as an Imperial player or a Republic player. Here is how they're displayed on Torhead: http://www.torhead.com/item/79bS7NQ/ancient-seekers-headgear http://www.torhead.com/item/eejaTfV/prototype-visionary-headgear Here is how they're displayed on DarthHaterDB: http://db.darthhater.com/items/36665/ancient_seekers_headgear/ http://db.darthhater.com/items/28190/%5Bprototype%5D_visionary_headgear/ So, if you're a Republic player attempting to search through those databases for a particular look, all you have to go by is the icons. And the icons being shown in the databases in these cases are Imperial icons, making the information useless (or, worse case, misleading) to a Republic player. I feel that in the case of this particular problem it's the responsibility of the database (not the players) to provide an option to view these items from both an Imperial or Republic perspective. Left as is, they're just confusing. Now, I say "responsibility" like it's the site owners purpose on this planet to show us accurate SWToR data. Clearly it's not. But, my point is, if you're going to go through the trouble of putting up a site, it makes sense for the information to be useful and accurate. Perhaps more importantly, the site that finally manages to straighten problems like the above out is going to be the one that is likely used the most, which (when coupled with advertisements and traffic) is just a smart business decision. Edited January 26, 2012 by Apax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldisper Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Good work, I tried looking up info on torhead etc, nothing worthwhile. It is a huge undertaking though. I have been using google and youtube for information at the momment. Edited January 27, 2012 by eldisper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apax Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 It would be a huge improvement if these database sites allowed us to choose whether to view the Imperial or Republic versions of these icons. I won't pretend to understand how these sites pull the information they display, but surely if the icons are present for one faction then they're available for both, and it's just a matter of providing the user with a way of choosing which to view. It may seem silly to complain about cons, but they are a fairly decent representation of the item and can be extremely helpful in the absence of player submitted screenshots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sosolidshoe Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Frankly, right now, I would be happy if they just took the time to cull the items which were removed from the game at the end of beta. It seems that every time I find an item that would be useful for one of my character concepts, inquiring into its availability results in my finding out it's no longer ingame. Very frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apax Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Frankly, right now, I would be happy if they just took the time to cull the items which were removed from the game at the end of beta. It seems that every time I find an item that would be useful for one of my character concepts, inquiring into its availability results in my finding out it's no longer ingame. Very frustrating. I agree with this strongly as well. Until they do that, the simple truth is the information provided by these databases is just wrong, and what is the point in a database filled with misinformation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoneth Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I agree with this strongly as well. Until they do that, the simple truth is the information provided by these databases is just wrong, and what is the point in a database filled with misinformation? The sites like TORHead are about as good as it can get given the limitation on what can be data-mined from the SWTOR client; even that is a violation of the terms of service, which BioWare could (presumably) use to shut down those sites if it chose. Aside from data-mining, and without mods, there's no way to get the item data from the game. The sites can best be described as "better than nothing". Characterising them as "filled with misinformation" is misleading, as (from my own experience) the bulk of the data is accurate. To make it better, it requires the community to contribute, crowd-sourcing the corrections needed to improve its accuracy. The best possible solution would be for BioWare to provide a web API to its database, which sites such as TORHead could use. Given Blizzard never went this far with WoW, I wouldn't hold my breath. Until then, with the various SWTOR database sites, you're getting what you pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brosephiine Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I've noticed Torhead is lacking and a little misinformed with some of what IS there. I was disappointed and frustrated by it. It's why I've gone and made an account so I can put up relevant information so others later down the line can have it a little easier lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtylobster Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Next problem is that even if we provide them pictures every single one need to be approved by them so therefore it can take months before they arevisible.That is not so fun because a lot of us spend time making screenshots that already got one (in queue) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammerroooon Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 There just doesn't seem to be a great collection or homebase for everyone. Character builds appear to be lacking on most sites out there as well. What we need is a central location for all the information, guides, walkthroughs, strategies, everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krojack Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 The sites like TORHead are about as good as it can get given the limitation on what can be data-mined from the SWTOR client; even that is a violation of the terms of service, which BioWare could (presumably) use to shut down those sites if it chose. True however it was also against Blizzard's terms of service to datamine the WoW client files. Blizzard was smart to turn a blinds eye to these types of web sites. They greatly drive the game's player that have a thrust for information. In fact Blizzard's online item database links each item directly to both Wowhead & Wowpedia item page. If Bioware was smart they would very quickly get something online like this OR at the very least get with some of these 3rd party DB sites and try to get the information to them. I strongly believe this would help this games community grow at a much quicker pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoopercat Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) Hey there, I'm one of the creators for Ask Mr. Robot. We had no intentions of making an item database when the game launched, but we found the databases out there, also very lacking. So we set out to fix the problem - Robot's don't like inaccurate data. Ask Mr. Robot's Database (launched 1 week ago) We spent countless hours verifying items that exist and culling out ones that don't exist. I spammed on our server for days to find someone with a blue-purple-purple pattern to verify that the tier 2 purple craftables existed. We eliminated the mastercraft mods that don't exist, the level 23 craftable armorings, and more. We also have all variants for random items, the craftable items have the RE % chances and what the RE variants are, and the mods have source information to show what items they can be ripped from. Our goal: to be the most accurate database. We have all of the icons for the republic versions of items and we can add those in soon. So keep an eye out for that Check out the database, and if you don't like something, let me know. We release updates every couple of days, including 1.2 data coming soon. Edited March 18, 2012 by Zoopercat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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