Sentinal, the general public vs. the elitist minority.

[ReithKanaka]

I'm not gonna say I'm the most skilled player, but I've learned how to use my Sentinel pretty damn well so I can do really well in the war zone brackets.

 

The only issue I see is that average player is not performing, some say thats good. I say thats bad, and BW knows it will know it'll be bad also. Some of you think class imbalance is fine, and I don't mean how powerful they are.

 

I'm talking about our playability hinder a general sentinel community but a an elitist community this sub forum seems to be developing. And that is extremely ill for an mmorpg.

 

But really, theres shouldn't be a reason why the Sentinel class can't be a pick up and play class even in PVP. Many of us have no problem in PVP, we are not the majority however.

 

This class has utility that I've discovered in pvp as a "shock and awe" on large groups (been leaping in large groups of Sith and using awe on them so my commando/sage buddy can do a massive of AOE attack. Even better with two Sentinels so once they use CC he re Awe's them so we can escape easier.)

 

It's really fun when you plan around abilities. But I will say despite those little treasures I've found, those abilities hinder us from the bigger picture of what this class should be about. A very open class the SWTOR community can enjoy. Cause simply the general community is finding this class frustrating.

 

I really don't care who you are, how good your doing, or what you did through the JK story or in PVP to get as good as you are. Cause I can guaranty every last one of you has met frustration with this class at some point that had nothing to do with "LEARN HOW TO PLAY A CLASS".

 

That is elitism talking and you are not helping our class, the community behind the class, and the general gaming community when you act like a snob

 

A general player is not under performing simply cause there are abilities out there that are simply not in our grasp, or we don't have a counter with them, or that we don't do enough damage considering how we put so many ability points into some tree. Its because there is a general misconception that as been perpetuated, and by BW in fact.

 

And that is WE ARE NOT DAMAGE DEALERS, cause design and in function we are not. We are more of a melee support in the way how class is set-up. Yes, we infact find ways to do damage, however We're DESIGNED TO KEEP OPPOSITION OFF BALANCE. Look how many stuns we have, snares anyone?

 

Do we have trees where certain abilities do damage? Focus tree crit on Force sweep? Combat tree crit on Blade Storm, Precision Slash? Watchmen tree DOT damage? Of course we have those, BW doesn't want us to be gimped!

 

As we say though, some of us really perform in PVP! That is a small % of us, and we are the exception that seems to be proving this rule.

 

Have many of us put so many hours in PVP just for gear? and we still seem to be at odds with this class when it comes to embracing our damage dealing potential.

 

I made a post awhile back about having certain abilities that would hinder an enemies ability to keep us away from getting in there and doing damage, cause when your a range DPS class you not too worried about having to get in someones face and introduce them to your light saber.

 

How well does your snare work in huttball when you get knocked off a ledge or platform? do you have leap to jump back to the enemy? or did you do it earlier so you could stun his lightning ability? that snare seemed pretty useless when that happens.

 

Presently they're are too many ways to keep the Sentinel from being up-close and staying up-close. Even as a burst class this is not very manageable since We have to build focus, snare, precision slash, blade rush, then blade storm. In this time will a Sage not push us back? Agent or shadow still stun us or disappear?

 

There are way too many events to where a GENERAL PLAYER cannot get in his rotation, our rotation and abilities have numerous steps to them.

 

Finding a way to keep an enemy off- balance so they don't get away seems to be the only recourse, and if you get a chance to pull off a nice rotation, great. Again for a normal player, those come far and few between.

 

I put on my fire resistant undies, so go ahead and flame.

Edited January 26, 2012 by ReithKanaka

[HiroAyami]

In before: Noobs need to L2P, WE'RE D-P-S Noob, and Sentinel isn't UP so stop crying.

 

 

 

On a serious note, I second a lot of OP's sentiments.

 

I'm not a "competitive" PvP player. I'm on an RP server (Lord Adraas) and only hit PvP in the wee hours of the morning. The class isn't "fun" by fun, I mean, it isn't something I feel the need to feel like I'm grinding playing.

 

If I want melee stress I'll play on my Guardian.

 

Maybe the class is super skilled based, but so far the vocal advocates of "leave Sent alone" are typically players who subsequently need to wave their epeen around in the same post. Congradulations on consistently making 300k+ or top 3 on charts, go back to PvP where that matters and you have a potential audience that cares.

Edited January 26, 2012 by HiroAyami

[Renlotho]

I'm not gonna say I'm the most skilled player, but I've learned how to use my Sentinel pretty damn well so I can do really well in the war zone brackets.

 

The only issue I see is that average player is not performing, some say thats good. I say thats bad, and BW knows it will know it'll be bad also. Some of you think class imbalance is fine, and I don't mean how powerful they are.

 

I'm talking about our playability hinder a general sentinel community but a an elitist community this sub forum seems to be developing. And that is extremely ill for an mmorpg.

 

But really, theres shouldn't be a reason why the Sentinel class can't be a pick up and play class even in PVP. Many of us have no problem in PVP, we are not the majority however.

 

This class has utility that I've discovered in pvp as a "shock and awe" on large groups (been leaping in large groups of Sith and using awe on them so my commando/sage buddy can do a massive of AOE attack. Even better with two Sentinels so once they use CC he re Awe's them so we can escape easier.)

 

It's really fun when you plan around abilities. But I will say despite those little treasures I've found, those abilities hinder us from the bigger picture of what this class should be about. A very open class the SWTOR community can enjoy. Cause simply the general community is finding this class frustrating.

 

I really don't care who you are, how good your doing, or what you did through the JK story or in PVP to get as good as you are. Cause I can guaranty every last one of you has met frustration with this class at some point that had nothing to do with "LEARN HOW TO PLAY A CLASS".

 

That is elitism talking and you are not helping our class, the community behind the class, and the general gaming community when you act like a snob

 

A general player is not under performing simply cause there are abilities out there that are simply not in our grasp, or we don't have a counter with them, or that we don't do enough damage considering how we put so many ability points into some tree. Its because there is a general misconception that as been perpetuated, and by BW in fact.

 

And that is WE ARE NOT DAMAGE DEALERS, cause design and in function we are not. We are more of a melee support in the way how class is set-up. Yes, we infact find ways to do damage, however We're DESIGNED TO KEEP OPPOSITION OFF BALANCE. Look how many stuns we have, snares anyone?

 

Do we have trees where certain abilities do damage? Focus tree crit on Force sweep? Combat tree crit on Blade Storm, Precision Slash? Watchmen tree DOT damage? Of course we have those, BW doesn't want us to be gimped!

 

As we say though, some of us really perform in PVP! That is a small % of us, and we are the exception that seems to be proving this rule.

 

Have many of us put so many hours in PVP just for gear? and we still seem to be at odds with this class when it comes to embracing our damage dealing potential.

 

I made a post awhile back about having certain abilities that would hinder an enemies ability to keep us away from getting in there and doing damage, cause when your a range DPS class you not too worried about having to get in someones face and introduce them to your light saber.

 

How well does your snare work in huttball when you get knocked off a ledge or platform? do you have leap to jump back to the enemy? or did you do it earlier so you could stun his lightning ability? that snare seemed pretty useless when that happens.

 

Presently they're are too many ways to keep the Sentinel from being up-close and staying up-close. Even as a burst class this is not very manageable since We have to build focus, snare, precision slash, blade rush, then blade storm. In this time will a Sage not push us back? Agent or shadow still stun us or disappear?

 

There are way too many events to where a GENERAL PLAYER cannot get in his rotation, our rotation and abilities have numerous steps to them.

 

Finding a way to keep an enemy off- balance so they don't get away seems to be the only recourse, and if you get a chance to pull off a nice rotation, great. Again for a normal player, those come far and few between.

 

I put on my fire resistant undies, so go ahead and flame.

 

I came from a game where I was one of the most dominant PvPers on my server easily in the top ten and possibly the top 3 to 5. I happened to play a class that was gimped and then got a huge buff into near OP territory when I became truly dominant. I came to SWTOR and picked Sentinel because I love the challenge of Melee DPS and the beauty of dual light saber combat. I struggled mightily until I got well geared and now am consistently hitting 200k+, yet I have seen videos of folks hitting twice that in WZ and I am in awe. I work very hard to get better, and get better almost every day. That said, this class is a dizzying array of abilities that are super situational and require tons and tons and TONS of keybinds. I feel like I need a Naga Razer or the like to keep up. I will buy one this spring as it is, I simply have yet to master the probably 20+ keybinds required to maximize this class and I'm only playing Watchman, I shudder to think of the challenge of combat with its required minimum 4 to 5 keys (more if you want to trinket, adrenal, bloodlust etc) in 6 seconds while staying on target in a game with more knockbacks, roots, slows, stuns and mezzes then I have ever seen and little CC breaking abilities (in watchman anyways). This class is incredibly hard to master a far cry from the all keybinds tracer missile video I hear is making the rounds (can anyone link that a Merc winning a wz with just tracer missile and topping damage?).

 

That said, I do think the sent could stand to get a 5%ish buff. One way of doing that would be to increase by 2.5% parry and increase riposte damage by 2.5%. This would make some sense in terms of being able to parry with the offhand main gauche style. It would add a bit of survivability to an all too squishy class and get some more DPS out put out of a very expensive focus spender that is off the gcd.

 

Another option would be to boost offhand damage by 5%. I think much more than that would cause the sentinel/marauder gods out there (the ones who break 400k consistently) to cause a backlash nerf. I also think they could change the trees a bit. I would love to play combat, but no way I'm giving up close quarters AND speed kick on 6 second cooldown. If one or both of those was tier 2 instead of 4 I would gladly give combat a try, but not having the interrupt would for me make the class far to easy to kill with all the deadly casters light and heavy armor.

 

I find it stunning that bioware hesitates to buff Sentinels and yet has zero problem with a class that is ranged, heavy armor, self healing with amazing single target and aoe damage. Seriously wth? Don't even get me started about sorc's with their infini heal's, cc that even with 3 interrupts in 12 seconds you can't keep on lockdown the good ones.

[Rakimou]

People who hit 500k+ are biochem users or play in a group.

[Vegathegreat]

I'm not gonna say I'm the most skilled player, but I've learned how to use my Sentinel pretty damn well so I can do really well in the war zone brackets.

 

The only issue I see is that average player is not performing, some say thats good. I say thats bad, and BW knows it will know it'll be bad also. Some of you think class imbalance is fine, and I don't mean how powerful they are.

 

I'm talking about our playability hinder a general sentinel community but a an elitist community this sub forum seems to be developing. And that is extremely ill for an mmorpg.

 

But really, theres shouldn't be a reason why the Sentinel class can't be a pick up and play class even in PVP. Many of us have no problem in PVP, we are not the majority however.

 

This class has utility that I've discovered in pvp as a "shock and awe" on large groups (been leaping in large groups of Sith and using awe on them so my commando/sage buddy can do a massive of AOE attack. Even better with two Sentinels so once they use CC he re Awe's them so we can escape easier.)

 

It's really fun when you plan around abilities. But I will say despite those little treasures I've found, those abilities hinder us from the bigger picture of what this class should be about. A very open class the SWTOR community can enjoy. Cause simply the general community is finding this class frustrating.

 

I really don't care who you are, how good your doing, or what you did through the JK story or in PVP to get as good as you are. Cause I can guaranty every last one of you has met frustration with this class at some point that had nothing to do with "LEARN HOW TO PLAY A CLASS".

 

That is elitism talking and you are not helping our class, the community behind the class, and the general gaming community when you act like a snob

 

A general player is not under performing simply cause there are abilities out there that are simply not in our grasp, or we don't have a counter with them, or that we don't do enough damage considering how we put so many ability points into some tree. Its because there is a general misconception that as been perpetuated, and by BW in fact.

 

And that is WE ARE NOT DAMAGE DEALERS, cause design and in function we are not. We are more of a melee support in the way how class is set-up. Yes, we infact find ways to do damage, however We're DESIGNED TO KEEP OPPOSITION OFF BALANCE. Look how many stuns we have, snares anyone?

 

Do we have trees where certain abilities do damage? Focus tree crit on Force sweep? Combat tree crit on Blade Storm, Precision Slash? Watchmen tree DOT damage? Of course we have those, BW doesn't want us to be gimped!

 

As we say though, some of us really perform in PVP! That is a small % of us, and we are the exception that seems to be proving this rule.

 

Have many of us put so many hours in PVP just for gear? and we still seem to be at odds with this class when it comes to embracing our damage dealing potential.

 

I made a post awhile back about having certain abilities that would hinder an enemies ability to keep us away from getting in there and doing damage, cause when your a range DPS class you not too worried about having to get in someones face and introduce them to your light saber.

 

How well does your snare work in huttball when you get knocked off a ledge or platform? do you have leap to jump back to the enemy? or did you do it earlier so you could stun his lightning ability? that snare seemed pretty useless when that happens.

 

Presently they're are too many ways to keep the Sentinel from being up-close and staying up-close. Even as a burst class this is not very manageable since We have to build focus, snare, precision slash, blade rush, then blade storm. In this time will a Sage not push us back? Agent or shadow still stun us or disappear?

 

There are way too many events to where a GENERAL PLAYER cannot get in his rotation, our rotation and abilities have numerous steps to them.

 

Finding a way to keep an enemy off- balance so they don't get away seems to be the only recourse, and if you get a chance to pull off a nice rotation, great. Again for a normal player, those come far and few between.

 

I put on my fire resistant undies, so go ahead and flame.

 

The problem with what you are asking for is that then you will make the class boring. There needs to be a high skill cap class. The other classes are faceroll button spammers, they lack the fluidity that a sent requires. This class is awesome, a difficult class to play but thats the best part. So many cooldowns at your disposal, it makes the class by far the best 1v1.

 

I personally like having a class that has so many answers to opponents attacks. Someone trys to go cooldown happy on me i just pacify them or force camo or saber ward or rebuke, you have guarded by the force to buy 6 more seconds of keeping them off a cap or for a healer to get his heal off, you have focused pursuit to sprint at 80% movement speed for 10 seconds, i honestly dont know how many times i have used won 1v3 defending a node cuz i have all these abilities at my disposal. Personally i luv when i get trained down to 30% hp, popping transcendence then force camo to a healing buff real quick then force leaping back into the battle and finishing off what i started (pocket heals handle this better but when solo USE the battlefield).....

 

i guess what im saying is when used properly this class is awesome, making it easier to play is only going to nerf it and honestly it doesnt need nerfs right now......

[McVade]

Here's the basic problem with Sentinels: There's no such thing as an "average" Sentinel. An average player cannot play this class with any success. There's entirely too many buttons you need to hit, cooldowns you need to juggle and you have to always be playing defense as much as offense, or you are going to die hard to any button slapping member of any other class (except Marauder).

 

There's great Sentinels who have an uncanny mastery for using our crappy UI, intrinsically knowing how much focus they have without having to take their eyes off the action, exactly when their 3-4 DPS cooldowns are coming off and budgeting focus for them. Their first impulse when attacked is knowing which of our 4 defensive cooldowns to use. They know when to Zen and when to Transcendence. They know when to burst their consumables at the absolutely best time. The ones that roll in well-balanced premade groups that they are the main assist for. These are the Sentinels that succeed, that think pulling 300k in a Warzone is a no-brainer.

 

I'm not a great Sentinel. I'm competent enough to know the power of the class when executed properly, but also the sheer uselessness of it if it's played to any less than perfection. I don't play it to perfection. I sometimes forget to use Rebuke. Once in awhile, I forget to Pacify a melee enemy on me or my healer. Sometimes, I miss my window to use Guarded by the Force. For the life of me, I don't even know why I put points into Mind Sear, as I don't even know when it procs and most of the time, I forget. Sometimes, I'll go for a whole match without blowing a relic because I forget about them. I told that to my Shadow guild mate and he laughed saying he doesn't even have his relics bound... all the while dealing 2x more damage than me.

 

Therefore, since I am only competent, I rarely ever see more than 6 medals, rarely finish in the top half of damage and all the Champion gear in the world isn't going to fix that. I have to practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Research. Watch Videos. Practice more. Watch Videos. All to be equal to a bounty hunter who has Tracer Missile bound to all his keys.

 

I don't care how good you are, this isn't right. Flame on, pros.

Edited January 26, 2012 by McVade

[Vegathegreat]

Here's the basic problem with Sentinels: There's no such thing as an "average" Sentinel. An average player cannot play this class with any success. There's entirely too many buttons you need to hit, cooldowns you need to juggle and you have to always be playing defense as much as offense, or you are going to die hard to any button slapping member of any other class (except Marauder).

 

There's great Sentinels who have an uncanny mastery for using our crappy UI, intrinsically knowing how much focus they have without having to take their eyes off the action, exactly when their 3-4 DPS cooldowns are coming off and budgeting focus for them. Their first impulse when attacked is knowing which of our 4 defensive cooldowns to use. They know when to Zen and when to Transcendence. They know when to burst their consumables at the absolutely best time. The ones that roll in well-balanced premade groups that they are the main assist for. These are the Sentinels that succeed, that think pulling 300k in a Warzone is a no-brainer.

 

Flame on, pros.

 

I agree with this, and thats why i love the class.....it requires you to adapt to every situation, not just do your rotation and hope for the best. You sometimes have to play defensive and then at the right moment focus dump, sometimes you have to kite, sometimes you just gotta be a interupting master bomb........but at no point when playing a sent do you just get to say hey imma use these 8 buttons only and win.

 

Anyone who plays an MMO should be able to effectively use (1-6,q,e,r,t,f,g,z,x,c,v, ctrl + all listed and shift + all listed, and it also helps to have a mouse with 3-5 buttons)

 

here's a friendly pro tip, with you dps rotation obviously being the non shift or ctrl keys, try having your defensive cooldowns bound to ctrl.

 

for example :

 

saber ward - ctrl+f

rebuke - ctrl+g

guarded by force - ctrl+3

force camo - ctrl+4

trans - ctrl+5

pacify - ctrl+e

awe - ctrl+r

medpack - ctrl+t

etc.....

 

i have my binds this way A) cuz im used to it but B) cuz logically when i first got into mmo's i wanted to perfect using defensive cooldowns at specific moments and forcing myself to always get in the habit of defense = ctrl key, it has always allowed me to never think twice and focus on the battle instead of my bars.

 

and obviously my relics and dps cooldowns are within the shift+"key" realm

Edited January 26, 2012 by Vegathegreat

[McVade]

I agree with this, and thats why i love the class.....it requires you to adapt to every situation, not just do your rotation and hope for the best. You sometimes have to play defensive and then at the right moment focus dump, sometimes you have to kite, sometimes you just gotta be a interupting master bomb........but at no point when playing a sent do you just get to say hey imma use these 8 buttons only and win.

 

Anyone who plays an MMO should be able to effectively use (1-6,q,e,r,t,f,g,z,x,c,v, ctrl + all listed and shift + all listed, and it also helps to have a mouse with 3-5 buttons)

 

Yes, but when an average player cannot succeed with a class under almost any circumstance, there's a big issue.

 

FYI: I'm a 1800 Rated Unholy Death Knight and Resto Druid from WoW (not a brag by any means, just according to the WoW scale, I'm upper 30-35% of organized PvPers) - that's not enough to play this class well. Not by a long shot.

[Renlotho]

I agree with this, and thats why i love the class.....it requires you to adapt to every situation, not just do your rotation and hope for the best. You sometimes have to play defensive and then at the right moment focus dump, sometimes you have to kite, sometimes you just gotta be a interupting master bomb........but at no point when playing a sent do you just get to say hey imma use these 8 buttons only and win.

 

Anyone who plays an MMO should be able to effectively use (1-6,q,e,r,t,f,g,z,x,c,v, ctrl + all listed and shift + all listed, and it also helps to have a mouse with 3-5 buttons)

 

here's a friendly pro tip, with you dps rotation obviously being the non shift or ctrl keys, try having your defensive cooldowns bound to ctrl.

 

for example :

 

saber ward - ctrl+f

rebuke - ctrl+g

guarded by force - ctrl+3

force camo - ctrl+4

trans - ctrl+5

pacify - ctrl+e

awe - ctrl+r

medpack - ctrl+t

etc.....

 

i have my binds this way A) cuz im used to it but B) cuz logically when i first got into mmo's i wanted to perfect using defensive cooldowns at specific moments and forcing myself to always get in the habit of defense = ctrl key, it has always allowed me to never think twice and focus on the battle instead of my bars.

 

and obviously my relics and dps cooldowns are within the shift+"key" realm

 

You are obviously an elite player and thank you for the lack of attitude + helpful hints. I'm looking to master this class and have a long way to go. What's your avg dmg?

[RomanoDJr]

This is definitely one of the most challenging classes to succeed at in PvP, but I also feel like when you do well its very rewarding. I just hit 42 and ever since there weren't full groups of 50's in all of my warzone I've been consistently in the top 3-5 in the matches. Oddly I'm usually top 5 in kills but I'm still not getting the damage numbers I want to see. I get like 130-150k damage, and that's using adrenals and my crit relics at choice moments as combat spec. I can't say I ever fear any class 1v1, even if they're a 50 it will still be a close fight unless they're totally geared out.

 

So I can't say that I'm completely satisfied with the Sentinel situation as you definitely have to work harder to keep up with mediocre players on the better classes. But I can't say that we're completely broken either.

 

Side note... My brother and I played a WZ on our lvl 11 & 12 bounty hunter alts and with our few attacks, no relics or adrenals we got 1st and 2nd place with approx 45 kills a piece and 190k damage approximately without even working together (as in, we weren't communicating or focus firing on people). That is definitely an EZ mode class. I have more fun working hard to get 25-30 kills on my sentinel.

[Vegathegreat]

Yes, but when an average player cannot succeed with a class under almost any circumstance, there's a big issue.

 

FYI: I'm a 1800 Rated Unholy Death Knight and Resto Druid from WoW (not a brag by any means, just according to the WoW scale, I'm upper 30-35% of organized PvPers) - that's not enough to play this class well. Not by a long shot.

 

Those are faceroll classes from WoW, the tougher classes to play in WoW are all gone, ruined by waterdown gameplay and why most good player quit WoW. burning crusade warriors with stance dancing (non macro), rogues and shamans for a very short period in time were the skill cap classes. But blizzard ruined it so kids could still suck but would feel better about themselves.

[Vegathegreat]

You are obviously an elite player and thank you for the lack of attitude + helpful hints. I'm looking to master this class and have a long way to go. What's your avg dmg?

 

Solo queue without healers ill get 300k

 

Premade im usually around 500k

 

When solo queue'd i tend to evaluate the situation, if there are healers on my team, multiple lightning / tracer spammers on there team, if the opposing team has cross healers. All of these factors go into how you should approach a battle. If it looks like a hopeless battle ill just farm medals, try and lure 1v1 or 1v2 situations off to the side and dispatch of them as quickly as possible. Many of the imperials on the server know who i am, so they either will come gunning for me or stay clear. If they come after me ill either draw them into a battle i know we will win or ill take them away from a battle in hopes of lowering the number of imperials for teammates to fight at an actual node. Essentially it is always random..

Edited January 26, 2012 by Vegathegreat

[ReithKanaka]

My main reason for posting this is that this shouldn't be a class where only the pros go. It was one where this class could be enjoyed by anyone. Any gaming developer should want that and I know thats what BW intended, and that is simply not the way sentinel is designed.

 

Why anyone should think a class should be strictly for the pros, that caters to top player only. Thats bad line of thinking and alienates anyone who recently gets introduced to a lvl 50 bracket wile playing sentinel.

 

If certain fixes come along and make it somewhat easier to play but makes a nerf to some abilities or a class, thats fine. The main issue is not how well a pro can play, but how well a community can enjoy a class. Its a game, and the mechanics of a class should be played for fun. Performing is well skills comes in.

 

Improving the aspects of how a class is enjoyable is the direction we should be going, if fun only comes in the higher echelons of the skill base then that is poor class idea.

 

This is the most iconic class in star wars, no one should say that this class has to be for only those who want to commit themselves to a class to have fun or to be effective at it.

Edited January 26, 2012 by ReithKanaka

[Talorra]

PvP discussion, got it.

 

Sentinel watchman is absurdly powerful in PvE. I don't PvP so I'll leave with that.

[McVade]

Those are faceroll classes from WoW, the tougher classes to play in WoW are all gone, ruined by waterdown gameplay and why most good player quit WoW. burning crusade warriors with stance dancing (non macro), rogues and shamans for a very short period in time were the skill cap classes. But blizzard ruined it so kids could still suck but would feel better about themselves.

 

Death Knight is, by far, more complicated than half the classes in this game. I'm sorry, but have you played any other classes? I mean, hell, even Arcane Mage requires 2 buttons... Bounty Hunter requires 1.

 

Operatives/Scoundrels? 3 buttons + a consumable to blow up anyone they look at. WoW Rogue dances circles around them in sheer complexity. WoW Rogue has to choose between damage and control on their opener. But Bioware put on an Epic face and let Ops/Scoundrels do both at the same time. And even if a WoW Rogue picks damage, they don't kill you as fast as an Op/Scoundrel does.

 

This game is even more easy mode than WoW for a good portion of the classes. Just, for what ever reason, they decided Sentinels are going to be unapproachable to 75% of the playerbase.

Edited January 26, 2012 by McVade

[SarimRune]

I am not a great player.

 

I find that this class juggles way too many things.

 

Centering, Focus, Defensive powers on various cooldowns, etc.

 

I mean, i will get my Sentinel to lvl 50. That's not a question. But it would be nice to feel powerful for a change and to enjoy the glory of combat than the glory of staring at my hotbar trying to desperately beat...two strongs of equal level.

 

One of the things I noticed from playing other classes is that they don't have a set rotation. Because we need to build Force, you really have to do A, B, C (focus builders) and then move onto something else.

 

Every fight its: FL, Overload, Slash, Cauterize, etc.

 

When I play, well...any other class, I can start with whatever I like. Sure there is an efficient rotation but I can play around with it. If I'm bored with starting with X (or it's not ready yet) I can switch to Y without any big deal.

[Urza]

I'm a focused specced Sentinel and I pvp. I've got over 11% Expertise and I don't find myself underpowered.

 

My spec is exactly what is posted on the AC forums. My rotation was taken from the same area.

 

I routinely get 1st place in Voidstar and can go without dying on occasion (or with my guildmate healing me). In Civil War I can get the same if I'm fighting groups of people in the middle, otherwise I'm spending time defending or whatever. I can get around top damage in The Pit, but usually I'm trying to set up passing lanes or whatnot so I tend to get beaten out by at least a person or two.

 

I mode average around 6 medals.

[Vegathegreat]

If PVP had an "easy mode" it would probably within the builds.

 

No one is saying that Sentinels don't need a complex build, make it rewarding, make it worth mastering for the "competitive" players. But why can't there be some sort of option (other than rerolling) for allowing Sentinel players to at the very least, be adequate.

 

Right now its:

 

Blow Average - Average = Subpar Gameplay

Above Average - Skilled = Good Gameplay (Or, according to some, Amazing Gameplay)

 

There is no balance there. When a class boils down to not fun due to difficulty of class mastery there has to be a problem.

 

If you don't think there is a distinct difference between some two-button Bounty Hunter and a Bounty Hunter who, "knows his class" or "learned to play", you're living in a dream.

 

Well this just comes down to the spec, personally i feel combat and focus are both a bit faceroll. Focus being the easiest to manage. But none the less i just dont know whats so hard about keeping track of focus/centering/defensive cd's........

 

you really dont even have to worry about centering until you have 30, then you combo it with your overload saber / cauterize for zen or if you need to use trans you pop trans.......

 

the defensive cd's are defensive cd's, dont be afraid to use them, they are on extremely short cooldowns considering the effectiveness........

 

focus can be tricky but all in all after a few hours of properly using the class you should be able to figure out when and how often you can use abilities

[DralenBrand]

OP - I agree with some of your sentiments, though you go too far. Everyone is so polarized, but I really dig McVade's post on the first page. It explains the polarization perfectly:

 

There are no average sentinels. Most are either great or not so much.

 

Forget whether the class is OP, UP, or balanced - trying to figure it out is all apples versus oranges because who do you use to compare? Player A who is a great sentinel, or player B who is not?

 

When analyzing class balance, from a player's perspective at least (not having stats/metrics on other players to review), subjective player ability is a HUGE variable. There is an elite class of sentinels that, honestly, are going to roll over the opposition whether the class is balanced or not.

 

The question is, are all the weak sentinels just bad players? Some seem to think so. I think some of the weak sentinels in the "underclass" would make great or average troopers or bounty hunters, etc. So, using the elite to anaylze balance is a waste of time. Probably the same is truye for using the overly weak. Problem is that leaves the only average sentinels we just don't have, lol.

 

So - cheers to McVade for a point well made.

[Siokai]

There's great Sentinels who have an uncanny mastery for using our crappy UI, intrinsically knowing how much focus they have without having to take their eyes off the action, exactly when their 3-4 DPS cooldowns are coming off and budgeting focus for them. Their first impulse when attacked is knowing which of our 4 defensive cooldowns to use. They know when to Zen and when to Transcendence. They know when to burst their consumables at the absolutely best time. And for the life of me, I don't even know why I put points into Mind Sear, as I don't even know when it procs and most of the time, I forget. The ones that roll in well-balanced premade groups that they are the main assist for. These are the Sentinels that succeed, that think pulling 300k in a Warzone is a no-brainer.

 

 

This, THIS, AND A THOUSAND TIMES THIS!

 

This is exactly what I try to explain to better geared Sents on my server that do not perform as well as me. I'm stealing this, thank you Sir.

[Douttor]

I honestly love my sentinel. Yes, he sucked to level, I wanted to reroll over 5 times before hitting level 30. But you know what generally weak leveling classes are the strongest at end game, and this class has nothing wrong with it if you just take the time to figure out what your hitting, and maybe read the tooltips. And yes it requires more then most WoW players are use to to play properly.

 

Anyways I am one of those 400k Sentinels in a WZ, and im itching to get to 500k so if you wanna call for a massive buff, be ready to pay for it in the WZ when you face me or someone like me.

[Renlotho]

I honestly love my sentinel. Yes, he sucked to level, I wanted to reroll over 5 times before hitting level 30. But you know what generally weak leveling classes are the strongest at end game, and this class has nothing wrong with it if you just take the time to figure out what your hitting, and maybe read the tooltips. And yes it requires more then most WoW players are use to to play properly.

 

Anyways I am one of those 400k Sentinels in a WZ, and im itching to get to 500k so if you wanna call for a massive buff, be ready to pay for it in the WZ when you face me or someone like me.

 

I'm honestly in awe of these 400k claims (yes I've seen some substantiated). I've seen videos and honestly the big difference seems to be staying alive and pocket heals. I also think folks are using overload saber and cyclone slash. I further think they must be completely decked out in BM gear to pull this off and are hitting clothies with little or no expertise. I'm thrilled when I hit 250k.

 

I'm reworking my keybinds to try Vega's set up, but I'm just stunned that folks are almost doubling my output. I know I need to get better but I feel like there must be something I'm missing, maybe I'm not using the right adrenal or using my trinkets often enough (do you guys use them situationally or constantly). I also wonder if my lack of BM gear and frankly getting jobbed by endless champ bags is the issue. My mainhand right now is the bugged rakata which is only 126, is the Champ or BM mainhand that much of an upgrade? Do you feel you need an elite machine to keep down lag to stay on target? Razer Naga? What about that 15% boost to group ability to you hit it the minute it comes off of CD or situationally?

 

Videos are only so much help as its difficult to parse out which skills folks are using when. I want to get better, hook a brother sentinel up with some more pro tips.I appreciate any and all advice that is given in this thread with respect.

[Bishidoblade]

I honestly love my sentinel. Yes, he sucked to level, I wanted to reroll over 5 times before hitting level 30. But you know what generally weak leveling classes are the strongest at end game, and this class has nothing wrong with it if you just take the time to figure out what your hitting, and maybe read the tooltips. And yes it requires more then most WoW players are use to to play properly.

 

Anyways I am one of those 400k Sentinels in a WZ, and im itching to get to 500k so if you wanna call for a massive buff, be ready to pay for it in the WZ when you face me or someone like me.

 

 

 

lawl feed da trolls!

[Bishidoblade]

Yes, but when an average player cannot succeed with a class under almost any circumstance, there's a big issue.

 

FYI: I'm a 1800 Rated Unholy Death Knight and Resto Druid from WoW (not a brag by any means, just according to the WoW scale, I'm upper 30-35% of organized PvPers) - that's not enough to play this class well. Not by a long shot.

 

 

I agree, and i was a 2200+ hunter/druid ... not that either hunter or druid are hard to get to 2200+ on, but the base difficulty is def higher then what i think people are use to. People have to remember that this game is its own entity, so not everything is going to be peaches and cream like it was in WoW, where the devs bent over backwards to make all the casual baddys happy. This is a fresh start, try reteaching yourself to not use those bad habits picked up in other MMO's.(keyboard turning still? really? click more.......?) Try learning how to play starwars instead of basking in your previous glory, because in retrospect everyone is a noob here still, we are all still learning how to play.

[MattieP]

Pretty much everything McVade said.

 

 

Your either great at playing sentinel (20%), or not very good (80%).

 

 

There's no rotation. All the abilities are tied together in some way. What abilities you use completely depends on the current situation. You can't just DPS an enemy down. You have to integrate your defensive abilities with your DPS abilities.

 

 

Playing a Sentinel is like playing chess. You need to have your next 3 or 4 moves already planned ahead. You need to have focus costs memorized, and know exactly how much focus you have at any given time.

 

Doing all this isn't impossible, but it is definitely challenging, which is why "great" sentinels are usually in the minority.

Edited January 27, 2012 by MattieP