Roak Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) ah lol, this sounds plausible: we do a ability scoring system and a overall class scoring system and we hand that off to Georg Zoeler and his crew, and they put their abilities through it (?) with the volume of stuff especially leading up to launch its like some of that abilities weren't scored exactly correctly or some of the data was missed and so we're fixing some of those things credibility. source: http://www.askajedi.com/2012/01/25/gabe-amatangelo-talks-pvp-faction-balance-mods-and-more-with-total-biscuit/ Edited January 26, 2012 by Roak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roak Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) also further on the lead pvp designer says that faction balance is above his paygrade and not in his purview. don't expect anything positive regarding "world" pvp anytime soon. Edited January 26, 2012 by Roak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KorwinOfAmber Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Actually, the interview was quite sensible. He explained why OP was nerfed and why it was considered that its damage is too much. Bad news is he basically confirmed crosserver PvP - might make a people on low pop servers happy,but basically kills the point of PvP for me so i will go to other game at this point. And yes, faction imbalance he cant directly address - guess what a surprise, different people have different jobs and its not his call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptBrit Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) I thought he answered quite well on the Faction Imbalance. I mean what should Bioware do? Stop people rolling Empire? Anyone who thinks that should S-T-F-U. (It doesn't affect me in the slightest as I've got 8 chars anyway but still.) He said they were considering offering incentives to play Republic and as an Empire Player (I'm with them for the looks because everything does look better lol but then I thought that in the Films too. Well other than X-Wings) I've got no problem with that as long as it doesn't give them too much of an advantage maybe a Exp boost for the first 25-30 levels or something I don't know. Also where was the bit on cross-server PvP? I must have missed it was listening to it on my Phone while I played SWTOR yesterday... (I'm against it btw) Edited January 26, 2012 by CptBrit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roak Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) And yes, faction imbalance he cant directly address - guess what a surprise, different people have different jobs and its not his call. because faction and pvp isn't related at all? oh wait the only thing other than pvp that faction is about is cosmetics. I thought he answered quite well on the Faction Imbalance. I mean what should Bioware do? Stop people rolling Empire? Anyone who thinks that should S-T-F-U. (It doesn't affect me in the slightest as I've got 8 chars anyway but still.) I actually think it should be enforced in some way, and hear me out a sec before flaming. If you are making a faction based multiplayer game you have a responsibility to engineer something into the system to ensure the sides are competitively populated. Its like the governing body of a sport allowing their favourite teams 5 more players on the field of play than the opposition, who's that fun for? the team always winning, the team always losing, the spectators? It's good for no one, and designing a faction based game without consideration put into how those factions will interact is a cop out. 10+ years ago ultima had a 4 faction system that managed numbers to avoid one faction becoming too dominant, where the lessons learnt by the genre in the past totally abandoned because that's not how wow does it? Edited January 26, 2012 by Roak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptain_Kabul Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 also further on the lead pvp designer says that faction balance is above his paygrade and not in his purview. don't expect anything positive regarding "world" pvp anytime soon. The translation of above his paygrade means, that EA caused the problem. Maybe they saw the dollar signs but could't think 3 steps ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rykzon Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I dont play op/scoundrel All i read is: QQ y u do dis to me? me cannot kill one by smashing all my keys at once!!!111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptBrit Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) I actually think it should be enforced in some way, and hear me out a sec before flaming. If you are making a faction based multiplayer game you have a responsibility to engineer something into the system to ensure the sides are competitively populated. Its like the governing body of a sport allowing their favourite teams 5 more players on the field of play than the opposition, who's that fun for? the team always winning, the team always losing, the spectators? It's good for no one, and designing a faction based game without consideration put into how those factions will interact is a cop out. 10+ years ago ultima had a 4 faction system that managed numbers to avoid one faction becoming too dominant, where the lessons learnt by the genre in the past totally abandoned because that's not how wow does it? I ain't gonna flame you m8 I think one thing you think the other. I'll put it like this, though it is a crappy example. There are two pubs are directly across the road from one another, The Hound and The Lion. But the pubs have more or less the exact same beer for sale, but The Lion has a Barmaid with Massive T*ts and a nice Ar*e who flirts with all the older men who still think they have a shot and they have Sky Sports (The English one not some Italian channel) also their seats are ever to slightly more comfortable. Every Saturday the men from the Hound and Lion leave the pubs at closing time and fight in the middle of the street the Lion has quite a few more people coming out, But The Hound people fight anyway sometimes due to pure luck beating off The Lion people but more often get the sh*t kicked out of them. Well the Local bent Council member isn't happy with whats going on he likes going in The Hound and wants the fights to be fairer so he puts a cap on the amount of people who are allowed into The Lion. Imagine how p*ssed off the people who weren't allowed to drink where they please are... Edited January 26, 2012 by CptBrit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rykzon Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) I ain't gonna flame you m8 I think one thing you think the other. I'll put it like this, though it is a crappy example. There are two pubs are directly across the road from one another, The Hound and The Lion. But the pubs have more or less the exact same beer for sale, but The Lion has a Barmaid with Massive T*ts and a nice Ar*e who flirts with all the older men who still think they have a shot and they have Sky Sports (The English one not some Italian channel) also their seats are ever to slightly more comfortable. Every Saturday the men from the Hound and Lion leave the pubs at closing time and fight in the middle of the street the Lion has quite a few more people coming out, But The Hound people fight anyway sometimes due to pure luck beating off The Lion people but more often get the sh*t kicked out of them. Well the Local bent Council member isn't happy with whats going on he likes going in The Hound and wants the fights to be fairer so he puts a cap on the amount of people who are allowed into The Lion. Imagine how p*ssed off the people who weren't allowed to drink where they please are... Give the lion some ti**ys! Edited January 26, 2012 by Rykzon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptBrit Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Give the lion some ti**ys! The Lion had Massive T*t*es but the Hound serious lacked them... The world would be such a more happy place if the average size of non-enhanced T*ts was D+ Edited January 26, 2012 by CptBrit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roak Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 I ain't gonna flame you m8 I think one thing you think the other. I'll put it like this, though it is a crappy example. There are two pubs are directly across the road from one another, The Hound and The Lion. But the pubs have more or less the exact same beer for sale, but The Lion has a Barmaid with Massive T*ts and a nice Ar*e who flirts with all the older men who still think they have a shot and they have Sky Sports (The English one not some Italian channel) also their seats are ever to slightly more comfortable. Every Saturday the men from the Hound and Lion leave the pubs at closing time and fight in the middle of the street the Lion has quite a few more people coming out, But The Hound people fight anyway sometimes due to pure luck beating off The Lion people but more often get the sh*t kicked out of them. Well the Local bent Council member isn't happy with whats going on he likes going in The Hound and wants the fights to be fairer so he puts a cap on the amount of people who are allowed into The Lion. Imagine how p*ssed off the people who weren't allowed to drink where they please are... whilst I enjoyed the colour of your post the main difference is the pubs are an open system, a game is a closed system, more like a governed sport, and control can and should be built into a closed system. If Man Utd were allowed to field 14 players every match, how popular would football be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptBrit Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 whilst I enjoyed the colour of your post the main difference is the pubs are an open system, a game is a closed system, more like a governed sport, and control can and should be built into a closed system. If Man Utd were allowed to field 14 players every match, how popular would football be? Yea I understand where your coming from and if they can make some sort of balance without "forcing" people i'd be all up for it, because lack of balance is only bad for the game... I think it will balance a bit more in a few months to be honest (Maybe not 50/50 but more than it is now) Bioware just need to do something without forcing peoples hands. You have any ideas? Only things I can think of that would be fair are: Exp boost to XX Level (Til end of Act 1 or something maybe?) Warzone Commendation Boost? (Same time frame as above?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuari Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Above his pay grade means someone higher up in the chain.. Lead PvP Designer is not anywhere near the top position in BioWare and since its an issue that affects more than PvP, its likely another department that has to look into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaniWes Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I dont play op/scoundrel All i read is: QQ y u do dis to me? me cannot kill one by smashing all my keys at once!!!111 If have a mercenary alt so yes I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashanor Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I thought he answered quite well on the Faction Imbalance. I mean what should Bioware do? Stop people rolling Empire? Anyone who thinks that should S-T-F-U. (It doesn't affect me in the slightest as I've got 8 chars anyway but still.) He said they were considering offering incentives to play Republic and as an Empire Player (I'm with them for the looks because everything does look better lol but then I thought that in the Films too. Well other than X-Wings) I've got no problem with that as long as it doesn't give them too much of an advantage maybe a Exp boost for the first 25-30 levels or something I don't know. Also where was the bit on cross-server PvP? I must have missed it was listening to it on my Phone while I played SWTOR yesterday... (I'm against it btw) Seriously? You would have a problem with them giving Republic "too much of an advantage" to help population balance? XP boost for the first 25-30 levels would do nothing since getting to 25-30 is super easy anyway. We need a 25-50% XP, Valor, and Commendations boost if they really want to do anything about this problem. This can be scaled up or down depending on how close the population balance is by the way. Maybe they should even offer double XP, Valor, Coms to Republic as weekend events (Friday night to Monday Morning). Only on servers where Imps outnumber Republic that is, isn't that like all of them anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptBrit Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Seriously? You would have a problem with them giving Republic "too much of an advantage" to help population balance? XP boost for the first 25-30 levels would do nothing since getting to 25-30 is super easy anyway. We need a 25-50% XP, Valor, and Commendations boost if they really want to do anything about this problem. This can be scaled up or down depending on how close the population balance is by the way. Maybe they should even offer double XP, Valor, Coms to Republic as weekend events (Friday night to Monday Morning). Only on servers where Imps outnumber Republic that is, isn't that like all of them anyway? By "Too much of an advantage" I mean an advantage that would give the Republic something the Empire can't aquire. I.E Reverse Factionism lol To give an example I personally wouldn't care if Republic got 50% more Commendations or exp etc something from Warzones, yea I have to do more to get my gear but I can still get it. What I wouldn't like is the Republics things been buffed beyond what the Empire can aquire. Like say giving them a an Armour mod that is better than anything the Empire has etc. I know thats a bit petty but think about more than Armour mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vis-Tecum Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 man I am glad Gabe is in charge and not people who think these posts have any good ideas. these are the worst ideas for balancing factions. its open world pvp people not a warzone you want balance and even numbers play the warzones. if you want to have massive battles with no structure go to illum and bring numbers. if you go alone you get ganked and then complain that there is a faction imbalance and illum is broken. if you are going with a good sized group and still getting rolled then guess what. you lose, it happens try again latter. but I guess people just want to whine so they come to the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramoro Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Is it really that unbalanced after they fixed the spawncamping on Ilum? To me it seems Republic is winning about 2/3 of warzones in both 10-49 and 50 brackets. They loose about 2/3 of the Ilum encounters but they're learning to send out gankpatrols and not face the huge zerg. I have faced very few totally unbalanced Imperial Battlemasters. 1 Tank and 1 Operative is about the extent I've noticed. Alot of "hardcore" (it's an objective title that should doubtfully be pressed upon pmipled teenagers playing computergames) pvp'ers are rerolling Republic to get better warzone queues and less chance of huttball. Which will swing the scales even more in favor of Republic in warzones. I don't think we have anyone in the guild who doesn't open their 4800 commendations worth of champion bags upon hitting 50. Then they quickly get 4 more for warzone quests and 1 for an easy Ilum daily and probably another for commendations by then. If you want "balance" (noone really does they just want easier for themselves) then join a dedicated pvp-guild and roll both Open World and Warzones with a premade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roak Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Yea I understand where your coming from and if they can make some sort of balance without "forcing" people i'd be all up for it, because lack of balance is only bad for the game... I think it will balance a bit more in a few months to be honest (Maybe not 50/50 but more than it is now) Bioware just need to do something without forcing peoples hands. You have any ideas? Only things I can think of that would be fair are: Exp boost to XX Level (Til end of Act 1 or something maybe?) Warzone Commendation Boost? (Same time frame as above?) I think it is too late to enforce any kind of faction balance, I do think it could have been achieved by making the game a faction game in the first place rather than making a game with 2 warring factions where the faction means nothing other than how the character/abilities look. The self entitlement of mmo gamers is ridiculous, people will reply to this post saying I'm an arse for saying character creation should be restricted but it is because they put their own "I want it all" attitude before gameplay considerations. Most common replies when suggesting any kind of enforcement are "why shouldn't I be able to play with my friends" to which I reply if you are that good friends organise which server you are going to go on and pick a side that has enough room for you and all your friends to roll together. Alas, the whole design of the themepark is against forcing any kind of faction balance, the fact there are different rulesets (pve/pvp) and the fact a player can do all the highest level pve without ever stepping off the fleet means even if the numbers were enforced to go no more than a 55/45 split you can't guarantee those players are in the contested part of the game world or even if they pvp at all - you can roll on a pvp server and other than the odd gank while levelling you never need to pvp at all. To the people who say making faction balance matter makes me selfish, I say it makes you selfish. If you went to a park and your friends were playing football and had a full amount of players fielded you would never expect to be able to be an extra man because it's just not done, in mmos however the majority of the player base wants their right to be the extra man to come before gameplay, so we have this situation. The situation is inevitable. Edited January 27, 2012 by Roak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roak Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 man I am glad Gabe is in charge and not people who think these posts have any good ideas. these are the worst ideas for balancing factions. its open world pvp people not a warzone you want balance and even numbers play the warzones. if you want to have massive battles with no structure go to illum and bring numbers. if you go alone you get ganked and then complain that there is a faction imbalance and illum is broken. if you are going with a good sized group and still getting rolled then guess what. you lose, it happens try again latter. but I guess people just want to whine so they come to the forums. fact: It's not open world pvp. It's a pseudo-warzone, nothing more. I've played open world pvp, this is not it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilecorb Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Give the rebs a Yoda race... fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuari Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 fact: It's not open world pvp. It's a pseudo-warzone, nothing more. I've played open world pvp, this is not it. Its objective based open world, pure and simple. This really isn't something open to opinion. Just because something isn't set up the way you like doesn't make it something its not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roak Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Its objective based open world, pure and simple. This really isn't something open to opinion. Just because something isn't set up the way you like doesn't make it something its not. If you honestly believe ilum is objective based world pvp then there is nothing I can say that will change your mind. couple of paraphrased dev quotes to help you swallow that bitter pill: ilum will blow you away! best pvp team in the business Edited January 27, 2012 by Roak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuari Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 If you honestly believe ilum is objective based world pvp then there is nothing I can say that will change your mind. There's objectives, it takes place in an open world zone. You're right, there isn't anything you can say to change my mind because there is nothing you can say against those facts that'd be true. It shouldn't be a question of WHAT it is, its a question of what needs to be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roak Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 There's objectives, it takes place in an open world zone. You're right, there isn't anything you can say to change my mind because there is nothing you can say against those facts that'd be true. It shouldn't be a question of WHAT it is, its a question of what needs to be changed. open world would be everywhere in the gameworld that the 2 factions can physically meet dailys/weeklys are not objectives, they're grind quests its an instanced grind quest, just like the warzones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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