Why "Expertise" is not needed.

[gryhmr]

Basically WoW ****ed up a few years ago and added Resilience. This was because they made damage way too high in Burning Crusade and people would die without a bandaid stat. Every other MMO copied it from WoW and bam here we are with broken PVP in every new MMO.

 

If you want a stat that makes 'raiders' not have a gear advantage give raiders a PVE stat that makes them take less damage from mobs instead of breaking competitive play. Because the boss isnt going to be mad when he loses, but a player will be.

Edited January 27, 2012 by gryhmr

[SWImara]

Unless the whole approach to PvP in SWTOR is changed (which seems mindblowingly unlikely) I'd prefer to see PvP gear stay. SWTOR like most current mainstream MMOs rewards players for their successes with gear. You succeed in PvE you get PvE gear, you succeed in spaceship mini-game you get spaceship gear, you succeed in PvP you get PvP gear. This is how the game plays, and how it should.

 

The other alternative is to have gear make 0 difference whatsoever in PvP and have PvP goals be genuinely meaningful, lasting and world-shaping. This is really not going to happen in SWTOR.

 

 

If you want a stat that makes 'raiders' not have a gear advantage give raiders a PVE stat that makes them take less damage from mobs instead of breaking competitive play. Because the boss isnt going to be mad when he loses, but a player will be.

Nothing you do is going to fix this, people who do not PvP or suck at it will always be mad when they get wtfpwnt and they will always find something else to blame for their failure. If expertise is removed it will be premades next, or crappy teammates or class balance. PvP isn't for everyone and getting wtfpwnt is a core aspect of playing PvP. If one can't deal with getting owned now and again really he/she should stick to PvEing. This isn't a judgement on those who prefer PvE, I am not saying that PvPers are better players or anything like that, just that losing is part of playing.

Edited January 27, 2012 by SWImara

[Tetrablade]

so gear plays no roll in pvp?

 

Since so many people like to say the GW2 is going to be such a better pvp model, i'd like to point out that GW2 in their warfronts plans to make everyone equal so gear won't play a role.

[Razot]

Up to the top you go..

[chaosvoid]

I mainly PvP and i absolutely agree with this!!!

 

Expertise feels like a "obligatory" stat -- I get less customization of my charecters by it and if this was implemented I would have more incentive to do something besides pvp like raid.

 

Also just another reason 1-49 pvp is better than 50.

[Madwooki]

Expertise is game breaking just as resillience was to wow.

[chaosvoid]

Unless the whole approach to PvP in SWTOR is changed (which seems mindblowingly unlikely) I'd prefer to see PvP gear stay. SWTOR like most current mainstream MMOs rewards players for their successes with gear. You succeed in PvE you get PvE gear, you succeed in spaceship mini-game you get spaceship gear, you succeed in PvP you get PvP gear. This is how the game plays, and how it should.

 

In a system without resillience/expertise PvP is still rewarded with gear that is on par with PvE gear.

Edited January 28, 2012 by chaosvoid

[Triolus]

The lack of reading comprehension in this thread is astounding.

 

Having been both a raider and PvPer, I think the OP is on to something.

[TMar]

Your suggestion means that PvE gear is good for both PvE and PvP.

PvP gear is only good for PvP.

 

 

Problem?

 

 

OMG The people reading this thread need a lesson in reading comprehension. While I don't agree with the OP and it's been brought up before. Some people believe that a PVP specific stat is the wrong way to go about balance and believe that a PVE specific stat is the way separate gear sets.

 

Let's call this PVE stat "comprehension" since the quoted posted doesn't seem to have any. You get gear that has this stat and all the sudden you have your PVE (and only PVE) damage and mitigation increased. It would in no way effect what happens in PVP. In the game in this example you have no PVP specific stat so the so the gear gap in this game, PVP wise, is much smaller between old and fresh max level characters.

 

 

Of course that whole argument is that PVP should be skill based and putting in time doing it shouldn't give you an advantage. At the same time if there isn't an incentive to do it other then for the entertainment value of it then people get tired of it. The same way raiders say they raid for the challenge of it and not specifically for the gear but the second that any game has made raid quality gear obtainable in a way that the raiders believe others can get it with less effort then they believe they put in to getting their gear then it's a problem.

[Savril]

So I'm curious if PVP and PVE equipment have no real difference, why would I send 3-4 hours fighting in a Raid just to find at the end of it that my equipment hasn't drop or it has, but someone else won it?

 

Where I could spend 3-4 hours doing PVP where I'm pretty much guaranteed to come away from it with a piece of equipment? thus using gaining a a better time to loot ratio?

 

It would make PVE pointless, unless of course if you said the PVE equipment was better then the PVP equipment in which case as the first response stated people would be forced to PVE which not all player want to do.

 

As far as PVE equipment only affecting PVE content that's also far too difficult for a game to guarantee, what If I'm in the process of fight a mob or I put it on purpose, Now the game thinks I'm doing PVE content, I then turn around and heal my friend who is attacking another player, but because your in PVE your now healing for 20% ( for arguments sake ) more and his healer is only healing the normal amount. just a thought but I can already see many way this could be exploited.

[dan_upright]

As far as PVE equipment only affecting PVE content that's also far too difficult for a game to guarantee, what If I'm in the process of fight a mob or I put it on purpose, Now the game thinks I'm doing PVE content, I then turn around and heal my friend who is attacking another player, but because your in PVE your now healing for 20% ( for arguments sake ) more and his healer is only healing the normal amount. just a thought but I can already see many way this could be exploited.

As I said earlier, make the healing bonus only apply to players unaffected by the trauma debuff and problem solved.

[Anthiel]

its to keep raiders from faceplanting everybody else its why it had to be invented in the first place you not likeing it is never never going to change the math and the math is why it was implemented

[Ewgal]

So your "Fix" is to force people who like to PVP to also PVE? There are so many reasons why you're school of thinking is wrong.

 

Plus SWTOR group PvE comes across as a bit effeminate to the experienced PvPer.

[Srolo]

I love how I told people before this game came out that expertise was bad but everybody jumped at my throat for saying such a god awful thing. All they had to do was make it like Warhammer and give the armor sets "Wards" if you will. The wards only worked in PvE for bosses. They would reduce the amount of damage you took based on what level ward/set you had. Lesser wards, greater wards etc etc.

[dan_upright]

its to keep raiders from faceplanting everybody else its why it had to be invented in the first place you not likeing it is never never going to change the math and the math is why it was implemented

 

Go back and actually read the thread - not only is that concern addressed by the suggestion, there's more than one claim that "the math" suggests that the best gear for pvp right now is mostly from pve.

[Jinroku]

Perhaps Bolster in WZs?

 

And leave the exerptise for World PVP?

[Kyris_Xiandrii]

Raid gear can have PvE only stats. <--- Important, think that one through.

 

PvE only stats on gear is better than PvP stats on gear because it does not cause people who don't have the time to grind WZ's all day from being gear facerolled.

 

PvP should be based on personal skill, NOT gear. And if you do run WZ's 10 hours a day and can't beat someone in equal gear who only queues once a week it just means you are bad and shouldn't win.

 

I do think heavy PvPers should be eligible for different armor and weapon skins, but there is not need AT ALL to give them a stat advantage over people who haven't had as much practice.

 

The advantage should come from the practice itself.

 

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

 

Hell, I am generally against stat bloat in the first place.

 

If they removed PVP gear, PVE would then be dominated by PVE players who have the best operations gear in the game. Nothing would change. If anything, it would be worse because many players don't have access to high-end operations.

 

I don't really want to be forced into grinding HM flashpoints and operations just so I can compete in PVP.

 

You don't NEED pvp gear in order to PVP,

You don't NEED pve gear in order to PVE

 

nothing wrong with this system. if you like pvp, you can farm pvp gear and become more efficient in pvp, and if you like pve you can farm pve gear to become more efficient in pve

 

once you get good pvp gear, you negate the effectiveness of the enemies pvp gear because you are balancing out the difference in expertise. if he has 500 expertise, and i also have 500 expertise, then I am hitting him for 0% more damage, but if he is a lazy nublet and has no expertise, then I am hitting him for 20% more damage

 

seems pretty fair to me. if you work hard to get pvp gear, then that is how you are rewarded.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Kyris_Xiandrii