OPs damage really out of control?

[Crowleyz]

Based on that video I'd say you'll suck at every class you play.

 

But still, making a video playing like crap to try to get them to buff your class... Really? We are resorting to this now?

[GregoriusMaximus]

I'm not going to take sides on whether Operatives are over powered or not, but there are almost certainly not 5 snipers helping them. The largest number of snipers I've ever seen in a single warzone is 2, and 90% of the time there are 0.

 

Yes "5" snipers was an exaggeration, but you get my point. They're usually taking damage from other ranged classes at the same time. Without a combat log, there's no way to check. But the idea that you can get stunlocked and killed by an operative is just idiotic. There's -no way- it can happen 1v1.

[Beeteel]

I'm not going to take sides on whether Operatives are over powered or not, but there are almost certainly not 5 snipers helping them. The largest number of snipers I've ever seen in a single warzone is 2, and 90% of the time there are 0.

 

and that ppl, is completely missing the point

[Beeteel]

Cherry picking a video (which you recorded 20 times and took the crappiest one) showing your subpar damage on a tank isn't very helpful.

 

And to the person comparing damage numbers on an 18k health target--are you serious? 18k health?

 

yes Im serious. Your point?

[Mazikeen]

He got him to 20%. Still taking 16 seconds for a kill goes to show just how UP the class is and how the nerf will destroy us.

 

Ops are not UP. A properly played Op can destroy someone, but a properly played anything can destroy someone. When the nerfs go live we'll see how bad they are. You guys act like they can't reverse a nerf...

[Soultyr]

I am thinking it would take much longer with a Sage, or a melee class given the same situation.

[Dzhokhar]

IF Operatives are broken, the correct test case is a Battlemaster geared Operative stacking buffs and attacking a fresh 50 in greens.

 

BioWare has pretty much stated that, in their opinion, everyone should at least feel like they can fight back in PvP.

 

As a result, an Operative could be considered broken if a 50 BM can buff, stealth, stun, and kill a new 50 without the new 50 ever having any opportunity to respond. That said, broken and overpowered aren't the same thing and a nerf only fixes overpowered, not broken.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Dzhokhar

[Beeteel]

IF Operatives are broken, the correct test case is a Battlemaster geared Operative stacking buffs and attacking a fresh 50 in greens.

 

BioWare has pretty much stated that, in their opinion, everyone should at least feel like they can fight back in PvP.

 

As a result, an Operative could be considered broken if a 50 BM can buff, stealth, stun, and kill a new 50 without the new 50 ever having any opportunity to respond. That said, broken and overpowered aren't the same thing and a nerf only fixes overpowered, not broken.

 

so lets nerf stealth and stuns to

[Blue]

IF Operatives are broken, the correct test case is a Battlemaster geared Operative stacking buffs and attacking a fresh 50 in greens.

 

BioWare has pretty much stated that, in their opinion, everyone should at least feel like they can fight back in PvP.

 

As a result, an Operative could be considered broken if a 50 BM can buff, stealth, stun, and kill a new 50 without the new 50 ever having any opportunity to respond. That said, broken and overpowered aren't the same thing and a nerf only fixes overpowered, not broken.

 

In this case EVERY class would be OP

[zizzefex]

Ops are not UP. A properly played Op can destroy someone, but a properly played anything can destroy someone. When the nerfs go live we'll see how bad they are. You guys act like they can't reverse a nerf...

 

They won't... and in fact almost no company reverses any balance change they do because that would imply they made a mistake.... which obviously never happens ever. No they just go around randomly destroying other crap to even it out and never really come back to the first mistake they really did.

[Sinemetu]

Being that I routinely get stunlocked 100% to death by sub-50 ops who know what they are doing, yes they are OP.

 

Sure if my cc breaker is up they are easy prey but if not well I might as well afk.

 

Either you're lying or awful. The initial stun lasts 3 seconds and fills the resolve bar, which takes 8 seconds to empty. Probably the operative is rooting you after the stun wears off and you just think you're still stunned, so you sit there and take it for another 3 seconds until the root wears off.

[warkat]

you show a juggernaught not only in expertise tank gear but tank stance to mitigate alot of dmg as proof your not op...??show it again as he opens on any non tank...please son we all know your class takes no skill knockdown and faceroll your opponent as he doesn't move for 3 seconds.

[Burtman]

I agree with Beeteel posts.

 

1. Operatives/Smugglers don't have pulls or pushes like all the other classes. One of our most damaging skills requires us to be in stealth to use it. We can only pop into stealth once per fight, twice if we start the fight in stealth(I am assuming the fight will last less than 2 mins which is what usually happens) We do have some knockdown skills but they only knock the user down for a few seconds if the users weak.

 

2. Reducing the stun time is stupid because all classes seem to have a 3-5 second stun time. We do have a second stun but it breaks once dmg is done to the target so it is really pointless in pvp unless we need to heal or waiting for a cooldown to pop.

 

3. Reducing the poison effects is pointless because you have to cast it every 20 seconds. Most classes have some type of DOT.

 

4. I do agree with lowering the damage of the skill as it would even out the dmg for the fight.

 

5. If I go up against a class that has a absorption shield my first two strikes do nothing as all the dmg is absorbed.

 

6. We are one of the weaker classes we wear medium armor and don't have many hit points. I know i can't solo a jugg with 20k HP.

 

7. I have also seen other classes like sith assassins and marauder hit me back to back with 3.5k attacks, that is half of my life right there.

 

8. People also need to know usually in warzones they are not getting hit by only one person. They might see an operative attacking them because they are right next to each other but those snipers are sneaky. They two also do a lot of dmg. I have not tested this but i feel that they can beat an operative in a 1v1.

 

 

I know when I first turned lvl50 it was very hard to help the team out in Warzones. I was always dying and not really killing many people. Now after struggling through it for about a week I have gotten about 4 pieces of PVP gear and I see my char in the top 5 for dmg and kills. I opponents players gear I was seeing people at about 400 expertise. I am at the 250 expertise lvl right now and i am doing better.

 

They need to look at what classes are doing the most dmg in the warzones as i have seen people in 400k range for total dmg. My highest is about 150k. When I got that 150k I got it by just killing people not trying to achieve the objectives.

 

I have also notice on my sever, I regularly play against the same people in PVP. So as my stats go up theirs are going up as well unless they are already capped.

 

All of this is just my opinion I have not played all of the classes but I have been killed by a lot of them.

[DeiVias]

An op can get me, in tank spec, in tank gear from 100%-30% in an opening stun.

 

Enjoy your nerf.

 

Burtman obviously isn't a very good or geared one.

Edited January 26, 2012 by DeiVias

[Beeteel]

An op can get me, in tank spec, in tank gear from 100%-30% in an opening stun.

 

Enjoy your nerf.

 

Burtman obviously isn't a very good or geared one.

 

I find that hard to believe even with all crits.

[LanceUpercutt]

video is useless, didnt use proper rotation and took forever to use his skills

[Jooji]

At level 50 with solid pvp gear I don't find operatives to be much of an issue.

 

While under 50 or in no pvp gear at 50 they pretty much one shot ya.

[Majspuffen]

Soresu stance. ****loads of defense rating.

 

Conclusion; he's attacking a tank.

 

 

Tell him to do a vid where he attacks a sith assassin or something.

[savionen]

I find that hard to believe even with all crits.

 

Take a look at the damage and then assume he's not attacking a Juggernaut Tank.

 

3550 damage for Hidden Strike on the Juggernaut. You throw in a relic and consumable and a random target with 30% armor - armorpen that doesn't have Soresu Form and the damage is closer to 5150. With better gear, on someone like a Sage/Shadow you could be pulling 6k. Throw in the expertise buff in warzones and that could become 6.8k, and if Hidden Strike is doing 2x the damage when you combine all those pieces, than the majority of other attacks are as well.

 

The nerf made tanks harder targets for Operatives, and I'm not saying Operatives just toss around 7k crits left and right, but in the right scenario they CAN do 14k+ damage over a few attacks.

Edited January 26, 2012 by savionen

[Beeteel]

you show a juggernaught not only in expertise tank gear but tank stance to mitigate alot of dmg as proof your not op...??show it again as he opens on any non tank...please son we all know your class takes no skill knockdown and faceroll your opponent as he doesn't move for 3 seconds.

 

the difference wont really be huge. We apply a 50% amror pen debuff. Diminishing returns while hitting non tanks.

 

Most dps classes can do sco/op dmg within a stun. And all classes have stuns. we should be bursting non tanks to about 30% because thats all we have.

[Beeteel]

Take a look at the damage and then assume he's not attacking a Juggernaut Tank.

 

3550 damage for Hidden Strike on the Juggernaut. You throw in a relic and consumable and a random target with 30% armor - armorpen that doesn't have Soresu Form and the damage is closer to 5150. With better gear, on someone like a Sage/Shadow you could be pulling 6k. Throw in the expertise buff in warzones and that could become 6.8k, and if Hidden Strike is doing 2x the damage when you combine all those pieces, than the majority of other attacks are as well.

 

The nerf made tanks harder targets for Operatives, and I'm not saying Operatives just toss around 7k crits left and right, but in the right scenario they CAN do 14k+ damage over a few attacks.

 

Lol nice numbers. Where did u get those from? we are far from the hardest hitting class

[savionen]

the difference wont really be huge. We apply a 50% amror pen debuff. Diminishing returns while hitting non tanks.

 

Most dps classes can do sco/op dmg within a stun. And all classes have stuns. we should be bursting non tanks to about 30% because thats all we have.

 

It's 30% now, and 47% reduced by 30% is about 31%. If you're attacking a Sage they'd have about 17% armor which would be reduced to about 12% Right there, between those two targets is a 19% difference in damage.

 

What classes can do the same damage in a stun, as an opener? A shadow's max burst is 7-8k over 2 hits, and that's using a 2min cooldown, having 5 stacks of exit strategy and 2 stacks of clairvoyant strike, which requires a good 10-15 seconds of combat.

 

A commando needs 5 stacks of Grav Round. A marauder can do a big aoe hit, but only once every 15 seconds and it requires 4 stacks of Shockwave.

 

 

Lol nice numbers. Where did u get those from? we are far from the hardest hitting class

 

3350 base.

 

I know this isn't how the game formula work, but trying to prove a point.

 

+6% from not having Soresu Form.

+15% from hitting a medium-armored target instead of a tank. (+20% if it's a light-armored target)

+12% from having a relic that increases surge damage.

+5% from consumable.

 

That's close to 5k on a medium armored target. Closer to 5300 on a lighter target. Toss in more expertise and better gear and a warzone buff and you're on your way to 6.5-7k.

Edited January 26, 2012 by savionen

[Beeteel]

It's 30% now, and 47% reduced by 30% is about 31%. If you're attacking a Sage they'd have about 17% armor which would be reduced to about 12% Right there, between those two targets is a 19% difference in damage.

 

What classes can do the same damage in a stun, as an opener? A shadow's max burst is 7-8k over 2 hits, and that's using a 2min cooldown, having 5 stacks of exit strategy and 2 stacks of clairvoyant strike, which requires a good 10-15 seconds of combat.

 

A commando needs 5 stacks of Grav Round. A marauder can do a big aoe hit, but only once every 15 seconds and it requires 4 stacks of Shockwave.

 

 

3350 base.

 

I know this isn't how the game formula work, but trying to prove a point.

 

+6% from not having Soresu Form.

+15% from hitting a medium-armored target instead of a tank. (+20% if it's a light-armored target)

+12% from having a relic that increases surge damage.

+5% from consumable.

 

That's close to 5k on a medium armored target. Closer to 5300 on a lighter target. Toss in more expertise and better gear and a warzone buff and you're on your way to 6.5-7k.

 

 

Still 50% and that would be 23.5% to 8.5%. 23.5-8.5=15%

 

Your calculations are off by quite a bit so I'll stop there.

 

so lets say u pop all consumables and relic and whatnot 4k would be nice on a non tank. gear exp is countered by equal gear. Throw in a WZ buff and u get 4600 IF IT CRITS

 

NOW it all goes downhill from there

[Xippin]

What you are failing to nitice is, that while the player playing the operative may lack skill...he IS disproving the fact "geared" tanks are being killed in 3-6 seconds. Lets look at the dmg he does...

(I apologize, I don't know Operative ability names, I play a smuggler)

 

And Flechette Round (50% armor debuff) IS up the entire time...

 

Shoot First 1542

Flechette Round 505 (Crit)

Flechette Round 202

Back Blast 1036

Flechette Round 505 (Crit)

Flechette Round 227

Flechette Round 505(Crit)

Shoot First 3528 (Crit)

Flechette Round 227

Flechette Round 227

Flechette Round 505 (Crit)

Flechette Round 227

Flechette Round 227

Back Blast 1070

Flechette Round 227

Back Blast 1039

Flechette Round 227

Flechette Round 505 (Crit)

Blaster Whip 910

Flechette Round 505 (Crit)

 

What this tells us is...against this EQUALLY GEARED opponent

Shoot First (Opener) will hit for an average of 3306

Back Blast (Backstab) will hit for an average of 1048

Flechette Round (DoT Component to Armor Debuff) will hit for an average of 330

Blaster whip hit for 910

 

Now...lets run the math...

 

60 Seconds of Ability Damage

 

Shoot first can be used a maximum of 2 times per 60 second fight (assuming all cooldowns are up.

 

6612 Damage over 60 seconds

 

Back Blast has a 9 Second cooldown which makes it possible to use it 6 times in 60 seconds.

 

6288 Damage over 60 seconds

 

Flechette Round has no cooldown, but can only be applied via Shoot First or Back Blast. 6 Second duration tics every second. It is possible to get 48 Tics of flechette round in a 60 second timeframe utilizing Shoot First x2 via disappearing act (Vanish).

 

15840 Damage over 60 Seconds

 

Blast Whip has a 6 second cooldown making it possible to use it 10 times during the 60 second duration.

 

9100 Damage over 60 Seconds

 

Now, granted this does not include consumables / expertise buff which Ops/Scoundrals favor so much. This is under the assumption you are fighting the same target in the video over the 60 second duration.

 

These are the PRIMARY damage abilities for the melee DPS Op/Scoundral.

 

In total, this Operative in the video, minus consumables/expertise buff, is capable of 630.7 DPS against this Juggernaut. Now, what I did not account for, is the 1.5 Second Global Cooldown of all his abilities, but I did not account for auto attack damage. (And a 16 second fight is a rather small sample size)

 

Now, lets say the juggernaut has roughly...

 

18k hp's

29 seconds of dps'ing to kill

 

17k hp's

27 seconds of dps'ing to kill

 

16k hp's

25 seconds of dps'ing to kill

 

And this does not account for cooldowns used by the juggernaut (He used none in the video).

 

This is all based on the law of averages, which can easily be discounted as inaccurate due to such a small sample size. But, the sample size of level 50 Op/Scoundrals fighting equally geared opponents is small as well. Since no one wants to believe it's the fact they have horrible gear or were level 30 fighting a level 50.

 

Here is the reality of it, EVERYONE wants to post a video of a level 50 operative in full/nearly full champion obliterating undergeared 50's or sub 50's as proof they are OP. But NO ONE wants to accept the numbers shown in a video of an Operative dps'ing an immobile, "willing to die" target in equal gear.

 

***EDIT*** And for those that will say "BUT HE COULD USE CONSUMABLES AND HIT HARDER!!!" ... Guess what, he uses 15% expertise consumable, he does 15% more dmg, you use 15% expertise consumable you take 15% less damage...see how that works? He uses his epic relic, you use your epic relic...****! Who would of thought to counter cooldowns with CC/Cooldowns!

Edited January 26, 2012 by Xippin

[Anthiel]

Talk about desperation, I mean how sad to want to keep your FOTM class OP'd.

 

talk about desperation i mean how sad he want to not l2p i mean how sad to want to be a lazy **** and simper like a baby over **** that isint real