torbor Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Imperial Agent Operative * Acid Blade: Now provides 30% armor penetration while active. (this was 50% before) * Jarring Strike: This ability now knocks the target down for 1.5 seconds. (this was 3 seconds before) * Hidden Strike: The damage output of this ability has been decreased by approximately 20% to control burst damage and because it was enabling significantly faster than intended kills in PvP. What do you guys think? Wouldn't it be enough to nerf just one aspect of Hidden Strike. Acid Blade nerf imo is acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubAnav Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I think the acid blade one is worse, it affects all your backstabs. This is really the center component of this spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcyDeadPeople Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I reckon the nerf is quite ok since ops have way too many advantages over other classes. If anything the animations should have been delayed as well and cool downs extended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killomend Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) doesnt seem all that bad, the acid blade will probably be the worse thing about it. Can't wait to see the complaints when we are still able to own people. It's just gonna take a lil longer. Edited January 25, 2012 by Killomend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiek Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 i think its garbage that bioware is nerfing as a first resort and catering to a few crybabies on the pvp forums. ambushing is what ops do, if they are going to nerf the burst they need to buff the other aspects to make up for it. i just hope this isnt the road bioware elects to go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killomend Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 i think its garbage that bioware is nerfing as a first resort and catering to a few crybabies on the pvp forums. ambushing is what ops do, if they are going to nerf the burst they need to buff the other aspects to make up for it. i just hope this isnt the road bioware elects to go down. Have you played post-nerf? Yeah it sucks they choose to nerf like this andd it sets a bad precident., but how bad is the nerf? So what you can't kill the guy before the Jarring strike animation is over anymore yhu're gonna have to work for a kill now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancius Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 will they be letting us change AC's to sniper? How bout they take away our rifles and replace it with sock puppets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunda Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'll be surprised if the Acid Blade nerf makes it to live as it has the most implications in PvE. You'll find raiding Operatives being more upset with that change than PvP Operatives. That said, I think the Hidden Strike/Jarring Strike nerfs are fine, though if Jarring still fills the resolve bar I'll be surprised of folks still spec into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carba Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Nerfing core class talents by such a large amount is a bad omen. SWG went down this development pathway and drove people away. They blamed the customer losses on poor communication. But communication cannot hide the fundamental nature of a "bait and switch" operation: offer a nice ability that people spend a month to grind and then take it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmoredJuneBug Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Frankly I'm not sure if those are enough. Too much is stacked into the stealth opener as it is, instead of purely nerfing it (which is likely to still leaving it too strong) those skill points and abilities should have their synergies changed to work with the wider toolset. Too much rests on the opener, which means it's either going to make the spec OP or UP depending upon the strength of the opener. It'd be better design to make the spec more broad, not as dependent upon that one ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omite Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 wooohooo!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbudz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Why cant you guys just leave stuff alone. I don't even pvp and I really wish they could just nerf the pvp portion instead of messing with my pve damage. Maybe kill the stun effect but not the damage. I would even be happy with a bit more sustainable damage. When you take something you have to give a little something back to balance it out or you just screw the class. It is already the most underplayed class in the game by far. I am just glad that I have a merc on the back burner to play when all the whine threads destroy the operative I like to play. PVP crybabies FTL I bet most of you rolled on a pve server too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omite Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Why cant you guys just leave stuff alone. I don't even pvp and I really wish they could just nerf the pvp portion instead of messing with my pve damage. Maybe kill the stun effect but not the damage. I would even be happy with a bit more sustainable damage. When you take something you have to give a little something back to balance it out or you just screw the class. It is already the most underplayed class in the game by far. I am just glad that I have a merc on the back burner to play when all the whine threads destroy the operative I like to play. PVP crybabies FTL I bet most of you rolled on a pve server too Careful with the Merc. too. They might be next. I agree they will probably need to buff some of the other abilities for operatives but this nerf was %100 needed. It may be painfull playing an OP for a while but they probably will get balanced back up in other areas eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmoredJuneBug Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 When you take something you have to give a little something back to balance it out or you just screw the class. That assumes that all classes are perfectly balanced to begin with, which isn't the case. As of right now it's not possible to adequately gauge sustained PvE damage for the spec, at least not on the player end. While dropping armor penetration does amount to a PvE damage nerf there's absolutely nothing that indicate that would have to be compensated in any way. It might equally well not be enough of a nerf in PvE for all we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorrin Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 i think its garbage that bioware is nerfing as a first resort and catering to a few crybabies on the pvp forums. ambushing is what ops do, if they are going to nerf the burst they need to buff the other aspects to make up for it. i just hope this isnt the road bioware elects to go down. dude operative was like the only class that could kill you in two seconds. The knock down was too long and people just sat there stabbing you, if you didn't have a cc break you died. If you had it, they just combat stealth then do it again cause the CC break takes so long. Don't complain because you're now more like everyone else. It's not like you can't kill anymore cause I still get killed by operatives, it's just you can't kill in two seconds. It's more like your backstabs are the same as assassins rather than taking 3 or so to kill someone. The way the operative was designed before was you could go out by yourself and take people out. Now it pushes you to work in a team a bit more to make it a higher chance of killing people. Ambushing is what operatives do, it's also what assassins do. But assassins didn't kill you in two seconds. From what I've experienced now, they're fine. They aren't over powered, they aren't underpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorrin Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Careful with the Merc. too. They might be next. I agree they will probably need to buff some of the other abilities for operatives but this nerf was %100 needed. It may be painfull playing an OP for a while but they probably will get balanced back up in other areas eventually. my only issue with merc is their **** missiles. That is all, nothing else. And even those wern't as annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killomend Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Why cant you guys just leave stuff alone. I don't even pvp and I really wish they could just nerf the pvp portion instead of messing with my pve damage. Maybe kill the stun effect but not the damage. I would even be happy with a bit more sustainable damage. When you take something you have to give a little something back to balance it out or you just screw the class. It is already the most underplayed class in the game by far. I am just glad that I have a merc on the back burner to play when all the whine threads destroy the operative I like to play. PVP crybabies FTL I bet most of you rolled on a pve server too Sorry out of troll feed come back later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikassi Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 These nrfs will destroy operatives out of stealth .. We suck as it is out of steLth ... class is broken after this nerf ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorrin Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 These nrfs will destroy operatives out of stealth .. We suck as it is out of steLth ... class is broken after this nerf ... I've still been killed by operatives. Learn to work in a team like every other class had to to survive. Face it, one on one if the operative got the first move there was a 98% chance that the operative would win after he knocked you flat on your face. Before they were so overpowered I even considered making an operative just so I could work well in pvp, and I was already an assassin. Operatives still do well the same way a DPS assassin does. Running in circles and spamming their power move. The new thing is, there's a higher chance that you have to run in circles instead of standing still while a guy lies on the floor. It's not like they took away your medium armor, it's not like they can't kill anything at all. It's just made 1 vs 1 a challenge like it is for every other class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG_Swerve Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I'm loving it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killomend Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Cant wait til the noob class dujour A-Hats leave and the class can be played by the professional back knifers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorrin Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Cant wait til the noob class dujour A-Hats leave and the class can be played by the professional back knifers. exactly. Theres a difference between being given a kill and working for a kill. All this did was stop freebies. The class is still very well capable of killing another in 1 vs 1. 1 vs 3? Not so much. Then again only really good pvpers survive 1 vs 3 typically with no help... If someone disagrees, well think of it this way. Most likely you were better than the 3 you just killed unless with the environment you just so happened to accidentally kill them with fire, acid, and made it a 1 vs 1 fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMooMs Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I reckon the nerf is quite ok since ops have way too many advantages over other classes. If anything the animations should have been delayed as well and cool downs extended many advantages? i dont much see it that way no utility, no sustainable dps, no defense cds, we had our burst out of stealth, outside of that i feel quite useless in hutball for example, no knockback, gap closer (im just repeating whats been said and is well known, by everyone except you.) i fell as if concealment ops had one great thing going for us and they took that away, im not quite sure what our role is from here, but we will see, i hate leveling toons, il stick with my op gimp or not, but i think this nerf is fkn retarted imo, just the result of a bunch of crying sorcs and what have you that was taken to heart since they are such a large part of the player base and ops are small in comparission and deemed insignificant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorrin Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 many advantages? i dont much see it that way no utility, no sustainable dps, no defense cds, we had our burst out of stealth, outside of that i feel quite useless in hutball for example, no knockback, gap closer (im just repeating whats been said and is well known, by everyone except you.) i fell as if concealment ops had one great thing going for us and they took that away, im not quite sure what our role is from here, but we will see, i hate leveling toons, il stick with my op gimp or not, but i think this nerf is fkn retarted imo, just the result of a bunch of crying sorcs and what have you that was taken to heart since they are such a large part of the player base and ops are small in comparission and deemed insignificant You guys aren't worthless. If you are you simply don't know how to play your class. I've been killed by ops still post nerf. You're weaker, not weak. 3 hits to kill someone was far overpowered and people who knew how to play the class played them FAR too well. It's not necessarily you as an individual were overpowered, it was that a group of people found a way to become overpowered. Most operatives were able to overwhelm people with little skill after obtaining spike because you were knocked down for 3 seconds, then had to go through a standing animation. This was more than enough time to give off 3 backstabs which was enough to kill people who wernt tanks in full pvp gear and crap. 3-4 strikes did most people in. As an assassin, 3-4 strikes might take away 25-50 percent if they're lucky. It didn't hit as hard. See the operative argument for why they wern't overpowered is because they were only able to fight from stealth by backstabbing. They claimed they could kill one person then get killed themselves. Where it was overpowered was you killed one person, combat stealthed, spiked the next person and killed them, and kept repeating this pattern while maintaining an ok distance enough to get away. So they were able to kill everyone in 1 vs 1 and then keep searching for 1 vs 1. A DPS assassin is quite similar in relying on backstabs. after 4-5 of them you have absolutely no energy, and have to get it back by doing the basic saber strike. You gained an advantage, but didn't outright kill the person. The point in backstab should be to gain an advantage so your weaker attacks can still put a dent in their health enough to kill them. The backstab should not be the only move you ever need and will ever use in combination with spike. The point in the nerf was to keep an operative from knocking someone down and killing them while the one on the floor had absolutely no way of fighting back, since CC breaks had incredibly long CD's for the amount of CC's sent at you in pvp. Work in a team. Have a sorc stun someone and you run in and backstab, then spike then continue to backstab. Have a tank run in first and while everyone is attacking just keep stabbing. If you work in a team there's no reason to complain or feel worthless because survivability goes up incredibly when working in a group. The nerf isn't unreasonable. Operatives can be killed and still have the ability to kill, it's just not horribly overwhelming when an operative attacks anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neurosisxeno Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 *Insert Baseless Garbage* I didn't want to quote your wall of inaccurate text. I got to the end of the first paragraph where you said they were killing people in 3 Backstabs and realized you didn't know how the class worked. Backstab is on a 9 second CD btw. Hidden Strike was their openner, it was also a baseline Operative skill that I used from time to time as Medicine and quite often as Lethality since it generated TA. Even if Operatives play as a team, they cannot just have someone stun an enemy and backstab away, the ability has a 9s CD, and with the nerf to Acid Blade, it will do even less damage as well. The nerf was too much in my mind, and I didn't even play Concealment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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