Retaliation Doesn't Share GCD

[Nymphalis]

So i've been noticing in most marauder guides (or any gameplay videos for that matter) that not many marauders use retaliation. This ability doesn't share the GCD with your other abilities and is a great asset when you are building rage and your other abilities are on cooldown. Even for carnage, massacre has the small window where you cannot use the ability, so use retaliation in that small time-slot. This should increase your dps by a sizeable amount, if anybody notices any flaws in this, please let me know. Edited January 24, 2012 by Nymphalis

[MorgonKara]

Retaliation is kind of expensive Rage-wise for the amount of damage it does for Marauders no? Jugs have a talent that can reduce the cost to 1 Rage so I use it all the time since it's almost like a free attack that doesn't trigger the GCD. Edited January 24, 2012 by MorgonKara

[Nymphalis]

Retaliation is kind of expensive Rage-wise for the amount of damage it does for Marauders no? Jugs have a talent that can reduce the cost to 1 Rage so I use it all the time since it's basically like a free attack.

 

Yes, it's 3 rage. But it all kind of evens out because ravage doesn't cost anything.

[MorgonKara]

Yes, it's 3 rage. But it all kind of evens out because ravage doesn't cost anything.

 

Ravage is free for all Warrior ACs. No Rage cost.

[Nymphalis]

Ravage is free for all Warrior ACs. No Rage cost.

 

Yep, but I meant that at times you have more rage because ravage doesn't have a cost and it's channeled giving you more dps for extra time on your cd's cooldowning.

[MorgonKara]

Sorry, I'm not an expert at Marauders, I'm just wondering if it isn't better to use the 3 Rage for more powerful attacks. Slash for example comes around every 1.5 seconds as it doesn't have a cooldown besides the GCD. Edited January 25, 2012 by MorgonKara

[Kallti]

It's only usable after a successful defence. It's a tanking ability.

 

The PvE guides won't mention it because:

 

a) You shouldn't be getting attacked, therefore shouldn't be getting successful defence.

 

b) There are more efficient DPR abilities to consume your rage with.

 

This is talking FPs/Ops of course.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Kallti

[Nymphalis]

Sorry, I'm not an expert at Marauders, I'm just wondering if it isn't better to use the 3 Rage for more powerful attacks. Slash for example comes around every 1.5 seconds.

For aoe probably slash, but for single targets probably retaliation if i'm not mistaken.

[ProjectAwesome]

Well, early on Retaliation is certainly worth it. Yes, it has a rage cost, but it frees a GCD for another basic attack. With the basic attack, it is essentially a 1-rage cost ability that deals Retaliation + Basic attack damage with one GCD.

 

Is that better than Vicious Slash? It costs 1 less rage (or two less if you don't have the rage refund in annihilation, which you should) and may very well do more damage. If you're Annihilation, Annihilate may be worth more just because of procs however - and the same could be true for Massacre in the Combat Tree. Do the math for yourself given your gear level and see if it is worth it.

[pinkfreudHC]

It's only usable after a successful defence. It's a tanking ability.

 

The PvE guides won't mention it because:

 

a) You should be getting attacked, therefore shouldn't be getting successful defence.

 

b) There are more efficient DPR abilities to consume your rage with.

 

This is talking FPs/Ops of course.

 

You can kind of force it in select scenarios:

 

Hit weak/normal mob, get proc, switch to boss and Retaliate. But for the most part, yeah. Good for solo/PVP. Rubbish elsewhere.

[MorgonKara]

For aoe probably slash, but for single targets probably retaliation if i'm not mistaken.

 

I would think that either vicious or sweeping slash do more damage than retaliation.

[Nymphalis]

It's only usable after a successful defence. It's a tanking ability.

 

The PvE guides won't mention it because:

 

a) You shouldn't be getting attacked, therefore shouldn't be getting successful defence.

 

b) There are more efficient DPR abilities to consume your rage with.

 

This is talking FPs/Ops of course.

 

Well, all bosses damage is aoe and it procs from damage+ some damage abilities are impossible to avoid from them (inside soa's mindtrap for example)

 

and I said when abilities are on cd or they are resetting you can use the ability in the time between when they are starting up again.

[Nymphalis]

I would think that either vicious or sweeping slash do more damage than retaliation.

 

It does more damage in the aoe sense, but less in single target.

[MorgonKara]

It's only usable after a successful defence. It's a tanking ability.

 

The PvE guides won't mention it because:

 

a) You shouldn't be getting attacked, therefore shouldn't be getting successful defence.

 

b) There are more efficient DPR abilities to consume your rage with.

 

This is talking FPs/Ops of course.

 

That's what I was thinking. It's good for tanking because Immortals get talents to reduce the cost and high defenses. I almost always get the proc for it so I just throw it in with my regular rotation. It's not really a great DPS ability IMHO, maybe at early levels. I would think that by lvl 50 you would want to save Rage for the heavy hits.

[MorgonKara]

It does more damage in the aoe sense, but less in single target.

 

Hey look, all I'm saying is I have Rage-costing abilities that I don't use anymore because they aren't boosted by my skill tree. Heck, I don't even have the basic attack on my quickslots anymore because I have Sundering Assault talented to produce the same amount of Rage & it cuts enemy armor by 8% with every hit up to 20%.

Edited January 25, 2012 by MorgonKara

[NoNeedforCavalry]

retaliation is a jug ability and that is all.

 

you need to be attacked to generate the proc- jugs have the increased taunt

you need defense to generate the proc- jugs have the added defense

it costs too much rage- jugs can talent it to 1 rage

it costs too much rage- jugs generate rage when being attacked as well

it costs too much rage- marauders have better things that do more damage to spend rage on.

 

the only case i can justify it being used on a marauder is if i am fighting a healer and i know that they have an instant cast coming off CD before my GCD will end and using the rage for retaliation will kill them.

[Nymphalis]

retaliation is a jug ability and that is all.

 

you need to be attacked to generate the proc- jugs have the increased taunt

you need defense to generate the proc- jugs have the added defense

it costs too much rage- jugs can talent it to 1 rage

it costs too much rage- jugs generate rage when being attacked as well

it costs too much rage- marauders have better things that do more damage to spend rage on.

 

the only case i can justify it being used on a marauder is if i am fighting a healer and i know that they have an instant cast coming off CD before my GCD will end and using the rage for retaliation will kill them.

 

I'm just not that sure, because it does more damage than sweeping slash and it doesn't share the GCD. That sounds very useful when all of your other abilites are on cd, not just cd but gcd as well. The applications for regular rotations in pve are limited except for some fights. But for pvp it seems useful, especially because of the amount of time we have to get up our rage. Rage seems to be no problem.

[theegreatme]

im a sith jugg immortal and i use retaliation every time its up.

[Karnyvor]

retaliation is an autohit that cant be blocked, dodged or parried. Its a guaranteed hit. That is the main reason to use it.

[NoNeedforCavalry]

I'm just not that sure, because it does more damage than sweeping slash and it doesn't share the GCD. That sounds very useful when all of your other abilites are on cd, not just cd but gcd as well. The applications for regular rotations in pve are limited except for some fights. But for pvp it seems useful, especially because of the amount of time we have to get up our rage. Rage seems to be no problem.

 

sweeping slash is AoE.

 

vicious slash, when talented, is using 2 rage.

 

retaliation at no point, is worth the rage cost.

 

if you have extra rage and stuff is on CD, use vicious slash.

 

if you have a full rage bar and everything is on CD, you are doing it wrong.

 

Retaliation is for Jugs. It is very nice on jugs. 1 rage and can be greatly up dps.

 

For marauders, like i said, if you have the rage, you need to be using more vicious slashes between other skills. If you don't have the rage, who cares?

 

Fact of the matter is that the damage is too low for the rage cost. The rage cost is high so that jugs can talent it down. If mara's were meant to use it, we'd have a talent to help us proc it/make is cost an affordable amount.

 

that being said, if you WANT to use it, it can have some utility with cloak of pain.

put 2 points in cloak of carnage, and 2 points in cloak of annihilation, then the cost can be justified by the extra rage from cloak of pain.

 

marauders are not meant to be tanks though, and 4 talent points are likely better spent elsewhere.

[Nymphalis]

sweeping slash is AoE.

 

vicious slash, when talented, is using 2 rage.

 

retaliation at no point, is worth the rage cost.

 

if you have extra rage and stuff is on CD, use vicious slash.

 

if you have a full rage bar and everything is on CD, you are doing it wrong.

 

Retaliation is for Jugs. It is very nice on jugs. 1 rage and can be greatly up dps.

 

For marauders, like i said, if you have the rage, you need to be using more vicious slashes between other skills. If you don't have the rage, who cares?

 

Fact of the matter is that the damage is too low for the rage cost. The rage cost is high so that jugs can talent it down. If mara's were meant to use it, we'd have a talent to help us proc it/make is cost an affordable amount.

 

that being said, if you WANT to use it, it can have some utility with cloak of pain.

put 2 points in cloak of carnage, and 2 points in cloak of annihilation, then the cost can be justified by the extra rage from cloak of pain.

 

marauders are not meant to be tanks though, and 4 talent points are likely better spent elsewhere.

 

But does vicious slash share the other abilies gcd? That's the main point im trying to make about using it. I'm not positive i'll have to look when I go online, but i'm pretty sure that vicious slash doesn't. I'm only talking about using retaliation as a marauder when your abilities are on gcd and you have that window where you can use it for maximized dps. Although, it depends on how much rage you have and the situation.