Axcys Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) So lets face it. Ilum sucks the way it is. It's most likely the same on my server as it is on many which by now has turned into a bunch of empire running in a circle at the center point looking for armaments and everyone once and a while 1 or 2 republic show up in the zone only to get zerged down and give up and never come back to the zone. This sucks for a number of reasons. Heres whats not fun about it and my suggestions to fix it. 1. Zerging is NOT FUN for EITHER SIDE. On the receiving end you simply don't get to play the game. You get stunned/knocked down 30 times in a row and resolve is busy not working all the while getting bent over prison style. On the giving end you run up stun a dude once and do maybe 300 damage to them with NO SKILL or FUN involved at all. What happens with every zerg in every MMO is this: A team of 4 rolls up on a team of 1 or 2 and kills them. Then those 1 or 2 turn into 5 or 6 and kill the guys that just killed them. Then This happens about 10 times. That team turns into 16 and makes it hopeless for the original team to do anything so half of the people get discouraged and leave. The battle of Ilum is now over without a single fair fight or once feeling like anyone on the field was playing with SKILL. weee now its time to grind pickups. Which brings me to my next point... 2. A grind that feels like a grind is NOT FUN. 150 pickups or kills? up from 15 caps? For real guys? The quest should just read "Zerg everyone down then run in a circle fighting your own faction for pickups for hours on end." I understand that in a large scale battle 150 kills for your team sounds like a reasonable amount but this idea is supported by the first. Zerging. When you build on a ****** foundation no matter how many good ideas are on top of it, the whole thing is going to suck. All this quest did was create one of the most boring/frustrating grinds ever. It lacks FUN, SKILL, and VARIETY. An my final point 3. A lack of of VARIETY is not FUN. You have officially supported everyone hanging out at a single point since thats where the armaments are. So thats where the action is. Since thats the only place anyone is going to complete the quest while no one is there, Thats the only place anyone will complete the quest while people are there. Do you know what this causes? Zerging of a single point.... So lets examine what you have created. Zerging, thats causes grinding, that causes lack of variety, that causes zerging, that causes.... A giant circle of ****. There are plenty of ways to derail this and keep the basic principles that you tried to create with Ilum. 1. The zerging: You want to do as much as possible to discourage this with the giant pop imbalance on almost every server. The answer to this is so, so simple: Split the valor gain among the group. Easy. done. People trying to grind valor will seak out 1v1 and 1v2 fights. or 2 v 2 and 2v3. Done. No more zerging. Except we still have the great circle of **** causing zerging so we have to thwart those other problems from recreating this one. 2. Grinding: This is really difficult to get rid of completely. At the most you cant trick people into thinking they are not grinding. Or make the grind not so intimidating. Intimidating like collecting 150 pieces of crap of the ground. If i wanted to run in a circle picking up 150 pieces of crap I would let my dog get a hold of a bag of Halloween candy again. That was a bad week. off topic. Reduce this. Also you need a reason for people to be there at the end of the week. IDEA: Have the daily quest read: Kill 25 players or pick up 25 armaments, Have the weekly quest read: Capture 15 points and Complete the Ilum daily pvp quest 4 times In one shot we just broke up the grind, Gave a reason for people to be there more then just Tuesday morning and added a slight amount of variety. But we will have to get rid of the last laxative to break our circle of ****. 3. Easiest one. Pepper the pickups all over the map. They should generally only spawn at a point you own but you guys have a lot of beautiful terrain out there that most people will never see because you gave them no reason to go out there. Most of the fun from world pvp comes from fair fights in interesting places. As soon as you start dropping those pickups at random points on the map, people will start having fun in 1v1s and 2v2s in the most interesting arenas. This no longer supports zerging. The circle of **** is officially broken. These changes will add FUN, use of SKILL, and VARIETY to Ilum. You cannot deny that. If you made this in hopes to copy wintergrasp or AV from WOW... don't. The ONLY reason people hung out at those places was for the rewards. It was in no way, shape, or form fun at all. Pure dog****. So please. Support and open world small scale pvp environment. Because when done correctly it could be the most fun anyone has in this game. I want this game to succeed and it is so so close. You just have to not "funcom" it by stacking bad patch on top of bad patch. Edited January 24, 2012 by Axcys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axcys Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 bump... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axcys Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 bump... Too much crying on these forums and not enough feedback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axcys Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Seems like people are most interested in crying about whats wrong then fixing it in a reasonable manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orchid_ Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Bump Something needs to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidaltarah Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Just posted an idea about giving bonus points for holding the entire zone! Bump for this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axcys Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Bumping again. We don't just want gear out of the zone we want FUN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbadAK Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I'm sure that in the five minutes someone spent thinking about how to change illum pvp, putting all the pickups in the middle sounded like a good idea. However, it makes much more sense to have them scattered at least around the three contested points, if not the entire map. Illum brings back memories of hellfire peninsula for me, the worst world pvp scheme I've ever encountered. +1 for this thread for being constructive and not just "QQQQQQQ im quitting this game" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubage Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Its to bad they don't change things up every week. Like have some rotating objectives for your weekly/daily so things stay a bit fresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axcys Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Its to bad they don't change things up every week. Like have some rotating objectives for your weekly/daily so things stay a bit fresh. Not a bad idea. If you combine that with my idea for a weekly and just change the daily. It adds variety while still keeping consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobyBaggio Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 If I could get a decent framerate then I could pass judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxmanBob Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 It's pretty obvious that all iterations of Ilum so far have been flawed. This thread is for discussion of the subject. 1. I propose that Ilum be changed to a tug of war system where the base at both ends should be attacked. When the base is successfully taken, it rewards battlemaster and champion commendations as if it was a raid boss. This can happen every 2 hours or so (obviously this time can be changed). Once that happens, the nodes are permanently in the victor's favor, and it awards a faction wide buff that grants bonus valor and commendations. 2. The armaments should be spread out zone wide, but a bit more scarcely. This would encourage players to be more liberal with their movements during times of low population in Ilum, and encourage smaller group battles at certain times. 3. The population cap needs a balance of say ~10 players. In the current system, there can be 90 repub and 10 imps and it will cap with that ratio of 9:1, and because of this, it will be difficult to sway the population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nilxain Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Its to bad they don't change things up every week. Like have some rotating objectives for your weekly/daily so things stay a bit fresh. good idea imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nilxain Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I wish they would tag and redirect all of these types of posts to one post that they are reading. There are so many good ideas that people have suggested and it would be nice to know that when you take the time to post one, it's not getting lost in a see of QQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeZC Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Awesome post, while not making the area that fun, at least it will make the frustrating endless grind less frustrating and less... endless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axcys Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 It's pretty obvious that all iterations of Ilum so far have been flawed. This thread is for discussion of the subject. 1. I propose that Ilum be changed to a tug of war system where the base at both ends should be attacked. When the base is successfully taken, it rewards battlemaster and champion commendations as if it was a raid boss. This can happen every 2 hours or so (obviously this time can be changed). Once that happens, the nodes are permanently in the victor's favor, and it awards a faction wide buff that grants bonus valor and commendations. 2. The armaments should be spread out zone wide, but a bit more scarcely. This would encourage players to be more liberal with their movements during times of low population in Ilum, and encourage smaller group battles at certain times. 3. The population cap needs a balance of say ~10 players. In the current system, there can be 90 repub and 10 imps and it will cap with that ratio of 9:1, and because of this, it will be difficult to sway the population. 1. this supports zerging. With constant faction imbalance this creates anti-fun for both factions. Once the loosing faction has lost they have no reason to remain in the zone making your well earned valor boost useless. This is simply a bad idea. 2. The same as my 3 and i agree whole heartedly. 3. Hard capping causes a huge line up especially at such a low amount of people. Doing something like a soft cap and keeping a 5-10 player threshold so each faction must be within a certain amount isn't a bad idea though as long as it has a baseline so the threshold doesn't go into effect until 15+. You don't want zone lockouts when one faction simply isn't there. Zergs are bad for everyone. Including the server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art-media Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 i am for orbital bombardments on zergs ... decrease the timer to start bombing if your faction has more people in that zone. This should end the base camping. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=230492 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axcys Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 i am for orbital bombardments on zergs ... decrease the timer to start bombing if your faction has more people in that zone. This should end the base camping. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=230492 This is a type of negative reinforcement. You just have to make zerging completely non beneficial as i stated earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art-media Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 actually the valor group divide would not work because there would be people running zerg without grouping ... also prefer the bombing because it would be nice to see in a war zone not only foot soldiers doing anything ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VallKillMore Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Bump Definitely dig the idea of spreading the crates all around the zone. I was in the center with 25 other people riding around in circles, just hoping that Id be by one when it spawned. I do get the idea behind puting them in the middle though, It makes sense because both faction need to "fight" to get to the middle to get them. Spead them out to the other capture points. But put more of them in the center. This way there is still an incentive to have factions fight over the middle. Or have the ones in the center spawn faster, something to that extent. Im not sure why the Repulic doesnt ever go to Illum, All I ever see is Empire there. What does it mean, Its no less rewarding for the Republic is it? Do Republic players just not like killing as much as us dark sided crazies? I dont want to see a lockout on the PVP area like game that shall not be named did with Wintergrasp... But maybe put in a timed "bonus" every so often for the faction that doesnt have control that will intice them to go to Ilum and participate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art-media Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) it is because they cant even leave their base because in front of it is zergfest Edited January 24, 2012 by art-media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teslamatic Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Spreading the stuff is absolutely, positively the easiest and most important thing to change. Why would you even want to bring al those toons together? It melts hardware. It melts nerves. It ain´t fun. Go play Aion for dozens crammed into a few square yards of space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axcys Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 actually the valor group divide would not work because there would be people running zerg without grouping ... also prefer the bombing because it would be nice to see in a war zone not only foot soldiers doing anything ... There is no reason to run around as a giant group if you only get valor for the damage done proportionally to a player. As for healers if they are in a small group the would get even valor. The idea supports small groups running around alone. not zerging around ungrouped. Its the same result ungrouped. Low valor yield. not to mention all 3 parts are contriubuting factors and the collection nodes being spread out means that player saturation in one area causes some people to move to the next. No one is going to zerg if they arn't getting anything done by doing it because its not fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tycius Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Axcys, I must congratulate you. You have not only managed to present potential fixes to a range of issues, but you have done it in a neutral fashion, and justified every point. Your advice (if taken on board) would be a serious step in the right direction to correcting a range of issues. Well done, my hat comes off to you. Perhaps you could also explain how to fix Warzones? If you did that, I would demand that BW hire you on the spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exboogie Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 3. Easiest one. Pepper the pickups all over the map. They should generally only spawn at a point you own but you guys have a lot of beautiful terrain out there that most people will never see because you gave them no reason to go out there. Most of the fun from world pvp comes from fair fights in interesting places. As soon as you start dropping those pickups at random points on the map, people will start having fun in 1v1s and 2v2s in the most interesting arenas. This no longer supports zerging. The circle of **** is officially broken. bump. 90% of the map is useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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