silktor Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) 40 force cost, 298-343 damage per target @ level 39 Is this bugged or working as intended? I mean, comparing the AOE attacks of my other classes, it's questionable. Bounty hunter does more at level 26 with her zero cooldown blaster sweep. I have to say overall the 'sin feels weak compared to the other classes I'm playing; but lacerate does genuinely seem so underpowered that I feel it is bugged / not scaling / something is just plain wrong. Or at least combined with the high force cost, it just doesn't seem worth having on the hotbar. Thoughts? Edited January 24, 2012 by silktor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnubisXy Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 It's really just an ability for tanks to put some extra threat into a group. As a DPS you're generally not going to want to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandrex Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 And that is exactly why we can improve Lacerate by speccing high up in Deception tree!... wait what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyfy Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The first flaring difference is DoT vs instant. You interrupt your blaster sweep or they move outside the area of effect and you just lost the effectiveness of the ability. Where as with lacerated they are in the AoE and they take the damage no matter what, excluding an evade of course. So while its not perfect there is a fragile balance there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batslav Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) no idea why its so weak but i find it usefull its not limited to 5 targets like discharge and wither (tank) also target is not required good for interrupts in pvp when players are trying to capture objective edit: forgot to add that cost must be max 30 Edited January 24, 2012 by Batslav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled-Phoenix Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Lacerate is useless. If you're tanking, you'll be using discharge anyway to draw agro and shock. Lacerate should either cost alot less or do alot more damage. As deception assassin or darkness, i never use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giggitey Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 That doesnt seem right, on my level 27 assassin it does 212-248. Maybe it isn't scaling correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nohkron Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 good for interrupts in pvp when players are trying to capture objective "good", well that is basically the only thing this crappy ability is good for, sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saberolson Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 It's really just an ability for tanks to put some extra threat into a group. As a DPS you're generally not going to want to use it. Thats backwards. DPS can improve it. Tanks should be using other abilities for AOE threat(wither and discharge) But as DPS is extremly underwhelming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saishyuro Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Thats backwards. DPS can improve it. Tanks should be using other abilities for AOE threat(wither and discharge) Wither & Discharge both have cooldowns, whereas lacerate has no cd (other than the force cost) so it is used by by tankassins as a filler for aoe threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silktor Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) I'm a tank, I find 40 force too much for a filler.. plus not noticed it generate much threat anyhow? Edited January 24, 2012 by silktor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saberolson Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Wither & Discharge both have cooldowns, whereas lacerate has no cd (other than the force cost) so it is used by by tankassins as a filler for aoe threat. It costs 40 force. I do not use it as filler for threat, its threat is pathetic, not to mention i would be stuck with my pants down with no force. Honestly ive got so much going on, I dont have room to lacerate. No good sin tank is going to be lacerating once they get wither(or for the hybrids death field) Wither plus discharge opener holds initial threat. Then you thrash and shock while tab targetting around the group, before you even have 3 stacks of harnessed darkness wither is back up, its only a 7.5 sec cooldown. When you have 3 stacks of HD, hit the most threatning target with that and hes yours. At this point, everything is dying around you anyway, if not, wither will be back up shortly. Tanks from wow got way to comfrotable just sitting on 1 target and aoeing things to death. That doesnt work here. IF you are sitting on one target, you are doing it wrong. And if you are lacerating for filler, when your real abilities come off cooldown, you wont have any force to use them. Im not saying I never use it all, but its extremly situatinal at best. Edited January 24, 2012 by Saberolson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saishyuro Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) No sorry, that doesn't work. What you're stating sounds pretty on paper, when realistically it's not going to happen. When you do large trash pulls, ie you're confident enough to tank a pack of 5-10+ mobs with a decent healer and tanking cooldowns, then you will be using lacerate to hit them all. Using LoS so that you can position ranged mobs with melee ones allows you to more effectively use lacerate to hit all enemies. Going through 1 by 1 on a large pack of trash mobs while your DPS are spamming their best AOE abilities? good luck with that. Shocking and thrashing one at a time will not help you keep threat when your dps are using aoe. Using wither, discharge, and lacerate will at least buy you the time to keep threat long enough before the mobs die. Tab through higher health targets to use SS when you're low/empty on force. Edited January 25, 2012 by Saishyuro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hikotai Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 No sorry, that doesn't work. What you're stating sounds pretty on paper, when realistically it's not going to happen. When you do large trash pulls, ie you're confident enough to tank a pack of 5-10+ mobs with a decent healer and tanking cooldowns, then you will be using lacerate to hit them all. Using LoS so that you can position ranged mobs with melee ones allows you to more effectively use lacerate to hit all enemies. Going through 1 by 1 on a large pack of trash mobs while your DPS are spamming their best AOE abilities? good luck with that. Shocking and thrashing one at a time will not help you keep threat when your dps are using aoe. Using wither, discharge, and lacerate will at least buy you the time to keep threat long enough before the mobs die. Tab through higher health targets to use SS when you're low/empty on force. ^ This. You're going to feel awfully useless on larger aoe pulls if you don't throw some Lacerate in there. Lacerate is a decent skill on paper though. Instant activation, spammable, no limit to max number of targets, and can be done without targetting. The only problem, and this is a GIGANTIC problem, is that the force cost is way too high. 40 force is just too much for this skill, that's what BioWare needs to adjust. Everything else about the skill is fine for what it is. Another use for it is if a stealther just disappeared on you, you can whip out a lacerate and try to knock them back out of stealth (since it hits 360 degrees around you, and is usable without a target selected). This is situational though, as it requires three critical things on your part: reaction speed, positioning, and prediction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyfy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 It amazes me how many people whinge about how force starved they are or will be or could be ad nauseam. I very rarely find myself in a position where I am out of force for more then a split second and given the rate at which it regens it's back up in no time: it just amazes me how many people are so force starved though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xJeTsTaRx Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) And that is exactly why we can improve Lacerate by speccing high up in Deception tree!... wait what? still garbage even if you spec into it and you add the extra damage and the lower force cost. Useless skill in my opinion. PS: on those large trash mods, one death from above coming from a bh will take all that aggro off you no matter how much lacerate you spam. Fair enough that they will prob be dead by the end of that death from above but still.. Edited January 25, 2012 by xJeTsTaRx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffle_shuffle Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Lacerate doesn't deserve a spot on a hotbar. Its utility for large trash pulls is 0 since all mobs are dead within in the 6 seconds of 1 aoe taunt, ie no aggro problems. Just pretend that as an assassin you're not meant to aoe (excepting discharge under dark charge) and the occasional knockback (again crap damage but has other benefits). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayvenger Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 40 force cost, 298-343 damage per target @ level 39 Is this bugged or working as intended? I mean, comparing the AOE attacks of my other classes, it's questionable. Bounty hunter does more at level 26 with her zero cooldown blaster sweep. I have to say overall the 'sin feels weak compared to the other classes I'm playing; but lacerate does genuinely seem so underpowered that I feel it is bugged / not scaling / something is just plain wrong. Or at least combined with the high force cost, it just doesn't seem worth having on the hotbar. Thoughts? Wait till you get Spike. It actually does LESS damage than my bonus damage number. Same thing with Electrocute. Can someone tell how that works? Even if an ability only does 1-2 damage at level 42, it should be doing 1-2 more damage than my Bonus number. Do these skills do minus damage? And yes, they are effected by your bonus number. Took my gloves off and the damage on Spike actually went DOWN... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Paddy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Yeah i don't even have it hot keyed. I have it on the left hot bar out of the way and the ONLY time i ever use it as a Deception Assassin is when standing in front of a door that has had our bomb planted on it in the warzone. Even then its just for interference, i dont even count the damage it might do.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahAran Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 No sorry, that doesn't work. What you're stating sounds pretty on paper, when realistically it's not going to happen. When you do large trash pulls, ie you're confident enough to tank a pack of 5-10+ mobs with a decent healer and tanking cooldowns, then you will be using lacerate to hit them all. Using LoS so that you can position ranged mobs with melee ones allows you to more effectively use lacerate to hit all enemies. Going through 1 by 1 on a large pack of trash mobs while your DPS are spamming their best AOE abilities? good luck with that. Shocking and thrashing one at a time will not help you keep threat when your dps are using aoe. Using wither, discharge, and lacerate will at least buy you the time to keep threat long enough before the mobs die. Tab through higher health targets to use SS when you're low/empty on force. This needs to be echoed, and to add to it, one should consider the force cost of individually targeting each mob and thrashing/shocking them, versus the cost of one lacerate over the same time period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nohkron Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 No sorry, that doesn't work. What you're stating sounds pretty on paper, when realistically it's not going to happen. When you do large trash pulls, ie you're confident enough to tank a pack of 5-10+ mobs with a decent healer and tanking cooldowns, then you will be using lacerate to hit them all. Using LoS so that you can position ranged mobs with melee ones allows you to more effectively use lacerate to hit all enemies. Going through 1 by 1 on a large pack of trash mobs while your DPS are spamming their best AOE abilities? good luck with that. Shocking and thrashing one at a time will not help you keep threat when your dps are using aoe. Using wither, discharge, and lacerate will at least buy you the time to keep threat long enough before the mobs die. Tab through higher health targets to use SS when you're low/empty on force. Well wow, I want to see you Lacerate tanking those "big pulls" with BH's Death From Above, Sorcerer's Force Storm and IA's Orbital Strike'ing the pack. You'd be better off AoE taunting once and just waiting till they are all dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batslav Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 No sorry, that doesn't work. What you're stating sounds pretty on paper, when realistically it's not going to happen. When you do large trash pulls, ie you're confident enough to tank a pack of 5-10+ mobs with a decent healer and tanking cooldowns, then you will be using lacerate to hit them all. Using LoS so that you can position ranged mobs with melee ones allows you to more effectively use lacerate to hit all enemies. Going through 1 by 1 on a large pack of trash mobs while your DPS are spamming their best AOE abilities? good luck with that. Shocking and thrashing one at a time will not help you keep threat when your dps are using aoe. Using wither, discharge, and lacerate will at least buy you the time to keep threat long enough before the mobs die. Tab through higher health targets to use SS when you're low/empty on force. unless u use the mass mind control it wont hold the agro at all the dmg is too low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesperr Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 While lecerate is very weak tool for aoe agro control its the only AoE ability without cooldown. What I am missing is that resourcefulness is placed in deception tree where its below useless and tank spec get some useless 9% extra damage on stunned instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verfallen Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Usefulness, as far as DPS goes, is killing weak enemies. The rakghouls swarmer on Taris? 3 lacerate and an overload. Otherwise, there isn't that many uses to it. Would be far more useful imo with higher damage and a cd. Warrior's sweeping slash in comparison is far more powerful. My marauder has it costing one rage, no cooldown. Thats 9 hits ready to go after the opening. The AoE on it is a bit more restricting, but its far more useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rozee Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Lacerate is a valuable pvp tool. Keeping groups from capping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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