Endgame Sin PVP FAQ

[duyduy]

Why was this written?

I was finally getting around to hunting for datacrons when I realized there was no way in hell I could find them without a guide. There have been plenty of other resources I've used, including darthhater and torhead (not to mention these official forums), and I wanted to give back to the community any insight I might be able to provide.

 

Who are you?

I've played a deception assassin since I first chose the advanced class (with extra points into Madness). As of this morning's /played, I was just over 13 days on the Rakata Mind Prison server.

 

Qualifications?

I reached level 50 on Dec 27, and hit valor 60 on Jan 11. I'm in full battlemaster (bm) gear, except for wrist (SOON), relics, and offhand (I'd rather have the champion relics/shield). I kept a semi-detailed play log to document how long it took me to level up.

 

How long did it take to reach level 50?

Personally, I took approximately 120 hours. Others have done it quicker, others longer. I have not done any flashpoints (FP) other than Black Talon (BT) -- yes, I am a huge pve noob.

 

How long did it take to reach valor 60?

It was at least another 100 hours of play after hitting level 50. I did non-stop warzones (wz) for 10-14 hour stretches daily for a week (I am fortunate to work a 7-on-7-off schedule, meaning I work 7 nights, then I'm off for 7 nights). I had already played a significant number of wz during my leveling, so I was already past valor 40 when I dinged 50.

 

Wait, why is Valor 60 significant?

There are currently 3 tiers of pvp equipment (centurion, champion, and battlemaster). You gain access to the first 2 tiers (centurion and champion) at level 50, but can't get the final tier until valor 60.

 

What's the point of posting these numbers?

A while back, I saw a "top" player on my server post on forums before he ragequit over the requirements of battlemaster gear, specifically the amount of time it takes to valor 60. First, I want to point out that he childishly felt entitled to "un-misleading" information on the game. He argued it was a linear progression from valor 1-50, then, all of a sudden, it took 8k more valor per level from 50-60. This hill he climbed led to a valley of mountains he couldn't scale... I sympathize with the fact that he felt cheated of something he thought within grasp, but I liken his demands to those of the Star Wars Galaxies (SWG) community with regards to the requirements to becoming a jedi. Or, to use an example more closely related to SWTOR: just because white lightsaber crystals exist doesn't mean Bioware (BW) has to reveal how to attain them.

 

In preparing to sprint to level 50, I was searching for ideas on how long it had taken others because I wanted to plan my time off accordingly, and set up realistic expecations for myself. And this faq was initially written to do you this service. I know most people have jobs and/or families to take care of. If you KNOW that it is impossible to hit valor 60 in 40 hours -- A FULL WORKWEEK -- then maybe you won't frustrate yourself in grinding wz the weekend you have off, and spend some quality time with people you love. Unless, of course, you have access to an exploit...

 

So if valor 60 is the final hurdle, currently, is it really worth getting?

I think someone posted the stat difference between the champion set and bm set as only a 5% increase? Or was that one of the numbers BW tossed up to be their design intent for end-game pvp equipment? Regardless, in my experience, the difference is really in the experience

 

Ok, I decided to go for valor 60. How long will it take me?

Assuming you can get 1000 valor/wz, and assuming you can get 3 wz/hr (15 min wz +/- queue and load times), you're looking at a rate of 3k/hr... valor 51 requires something like 13k, and valor 60 requires 51k... So you're looking at 4-17 hours per level, on average. Personally, I remember it being more like 8-12 hours per level from 55-60, as I did get 1500 valor sometimes, esp with MVP votes.

 

Any tips for getting to valor 60?

If you're a completely selfish player, then go for medals over wins. I usually go for the protection one at the start, so I can more easily keep track of medals I've earned... throw guard on someone you know to run into battle first, or someone that will be targetted often (healers). Don't forget to spam mind control (your targetted taunt) on anyone attacking any of your teammates, and mass mind control during any cluster****s (like the initial rush to the huttball).

 

If you can play with friends, consider this: each MVP vote is 50 valor... if you're grinding wz for 100 matches, that's an easy 15k of free valor -- a whole level! I usually ask who's closest to valor 60, and get everyone else to vote for em too. If you don't have friends, make em! On top of the MVP votes, you'll play better as a team, which may increase the possibility of your win, which translates into more valor.

 

Ahh, any other tips on the wz grind?

At last count, I had 13 people on my friends list... 7 are healers! I find myself very frustrated when I play during non-peak hours without a healer, or with a noobish team. I did not feel like it was a grind at all when I was enjoying each match as a chance to improve my skills, and coordinate my play with at least one other. One of the other tactics I've had for winning wz is to befriend the enemy! In huttball, I found myself really disliking certain players because they could kill me, or those provin to be very good healers... so I would private message (pm) them after the match and ask if they were queuing solo. Most of the time they were, and I killed two birds with one stone =) Of course, this only works if you are perceived as a welcome addition to the duo by the other member.

 

What do you think of sins in pvp?

You should first ask yourself what role you enjoy playing in PVP, and/or which role needs to be filled (whether by your main group of friends/guildies or the current wz team). As I stated earlier, I have only played one spec, ever.

 

There are two major implications to this. First, my experience is limited to a deception sin. I can't tell you if this is the "best" tree because I haven't played with a char maxed in the other trees. Second, my experience in playing my own char, in the tree that I've picked, is extensive. That is, not to say that I'm a pro, but I've more experience than the average 50 sin. So, I can provide you with thoughts from the perspective of a deception sin geared up in end-game (bm) gear.

 

I'll be first to admit that I'm still learning to play my class better. I find the biggest barrier to being a pro is taking full advantage of all opportunities to explore the nuances of your class. With any set of skills, you improve when you're actually able to utilize them. That said, I want to point out that SWTOR currently places heavy emphasis on wz as the pvp option. I joined a pvp server envisioning myself running around in open-world pvp. I had foreseen a lot of solo play - not being able to depend on a healer to keep me up - so stealth was essential to quick ganks and escaping detection. However, huttball quickly became what I found myself doing, esp due to the heavy imbalance of empire vs republic on my server. Here are 3 major examples of skills developed situationally:

 

1) Leveling up, and looking at the higher level skills in the deception tree make specific use of surging charge, I did not see myself using dark charge at all. Instead, I found myself using dark charge 75% of the time I was in huttball, guarding teammates, or just to make use of the shield bonus while I carried the ball (yea, I use a shield instead of a focus or generator). Mind control, mass mind control, and toss huttball quickly found its way onto my hotbar.

 

I think this is an important consideration because I've heard some of my healer friends complain about dying quickly in some games. I point out that a significant number of players are still learning to spam their taunt, or use guard to keep their healer up...

 

2) At one point, I think healers were a rarity. Esp for sorcs, whom I'm told stick to dps to level up, then convert to heal spec once dinging 50. So, I very seldomly got matched up against two healers. I found I could not dps one down faster than the other could heal, so I learned to use whirlwind on one. I know, very noob of me to forget that skill! But, I hadn't used it since pve'ing elites as a level 14... Again, having not struggled with simply taking out enemies one by one, I forgot about that cc ability. On top of that, I'm sure there are plenty of readers who've had frustration with teammates breaking cc in a random wz group. Many have reached a point where they don't even want to bother with a 2 second cast cd to have a teammate break it immediately after. So, without a real need to utilize the ability, it fell by the wayside. However, now that there is a 50 bracket, and some teammates use vent/ts/mumble, we're able to coordinate the cc a little better, and yell out not to aoe or target the intended cc target.

 

3) The last example of a skill I recently rediscovered is low slash. I would not have started using it again if I hadn't lost 4x in a row against a bounty hunter. I can't even remember what AC he was. All I knew was, I couldnt beat him with my rotation, and jolt and electrocute to interrupt two of his abilities. As I racked my brain thinking of a strat, I saw low slash was in my hotbar. I hadn't used the skill for over a month, no joke! I'm not sure if tumult (only usable on incapacitated targets) is or was bugged, but I hadn't found success with it, so I just didn't use it in pvp. And it's right next to low slash, so it could be used as a string of attacks, so I ended up not thinking to use low slash at all either. After the 4th duel, I finally used it to interrupt an ability, and that was the deciding factor in the fight.

 

I would highly recommend you make friends and duel them. They may not improve your group play, but you may learn a thing or two about 1v1 with your class, and get you to be more efficient in your rotation. I think a serious concern for others is that it takes time to duel, and that time is better spent actually leveling up. But if you're queueing up in between wz with friends, I think you should take that time to explore each others strengths/weaknesses, to improve your own. Also, understand that not all classes/specs will allow you to be the best duelist. The game isn't designed for each class to successfully 1v1 another (see: rock/paper/scissors), but that shouldn't prevent you from taking opportunities to do better in duels than the average player, or embrace your role as sneaking up to someone better geared and knockiOn ng them into the fire to win!

 

On a final note with pvp, I try to console my other friends who have yet to reach valor 60 by saying they are definitely more skilled than the other valor 30s running around wz with more pieces of champ gear than them. Those hours of play are not wasted, even if the current system does not adequately reward them. It's not easy for me to 1v2 lesser geared "noobs" without a little strategic planning. Heck, it isn't easy to 1v1 certain classes (provided they at least have champ gear), which can be frustrating for a class named "assassin."

 

So which classes do you have trouble with?

One of my favorite friends to play with in wz is a marauder who wooped me in a few 1v1 fights in huttball. I felt befriending him was much easier than struggling to fight against him in future huttballs. One of my favorite allies!

 

I've heard the highest valor ranked sin on our server complain about juggernauts, saying they are are much stronger than assassins... I'm not sure if it's true, but I had a duel with one who was only half geared in champ gear, and he beat me down. I'll have to do more duels to improve my game against em, then I can put forth a stronger opinion.

 

Operatives do have a high amount of burst. But I would say BW has done a fine job in balancing them. From what I see, their survivability is much less than sins, and their lack of cc really pigeonholes them into 1v1 fights.

 

Bountyhunters seem to hit 2-300k damage pretty consistently in wz, while I hover around 160k. I'm not too concerned about this atm, as I think our dps is enough to get the job done.

 

So you think the classes are balanced?

Well, from what I've seen, BW has done an excellent job. I think its important to take any complaints about balance with a grain of salt as they often come from frustrations rooted in expectations not met. It's very hard to work on balance when so many are not yet valor 60 with full bm gear, let alone level 50. On a side note, I wanted to say it's a very exciting time to be playing SWTOR. I've noticed improvements in gameplay with the addition of the 50 bracket, and an evolution in strategy. I remember during the first weeks when one of the higher leveled tanks could just walk the huttball to the goal while healers kept him up, over and over. I'm seeing a lot more center control in huttball (e.g. you see the other team easily score, and instead of chasing them to your endzone, you wait for the ball to respawn and take it to score yourself). I'd love to see even more sorcs forcepull, or marauders use the speed aura. Anyway, exciting times!

 

What crafting should I get?

Again, you have to ask yourself what role do you plan to fulfill, and what will make you happiest to play in-game. I'm the sneaky dps, so my crafting choice was between biochem and cybertech. Biochem has the really nifty resuable stims and medpaks... but my rage over a stealth class running away from me was too great to abandom cybertech, which allows use of the fire grenade that AOE dots enemies. Also, in keeping my role as dps, an extra dmg nade would really help in bursting someone down. BW has stated they are striving toward a balance in which players do not all go after one or two classes, or take up one or two crafting professions to be viable in pvp... but alas, this is the case currently, so those are the two crafting options you should probably go for.

 

So, do you recommend grinding for valor 60?

Personally, this is the way I saw it: every wz you play, you could be steadily improving by gaining coms, which you could use to buy champ gear bags (200 merc coms + 200 wz coms). The more time you invested, the more gear you might acquire. I did have bad luck, for those wondering, for my champ pieces. I got my champ weapon only at valor 58, and had only 3/5 major armor pieces. It could sometimes be frustrating to see valor 40s, or even 30s, in near full champ gear... but that luck turned around when I hit valor 60. I had gotten 3 boots IN A ROW, but had the foresight to save the tokens thinking it would make sense for BW to enable exchanging duplicate tokens someday... and with patch 1.1, I got coms from my 2 extra boots and 1 bm relic. I had also gotten my mainhand weapon 2 days before the patch, so... yea, I have almost full bm gear. However, even without the amount of luck I ended up having, my reasoning for the grind was still justified.

 

Up until valor 60, you can keep doing wz (along with your daily and weekly quests) to get a chance at better gear. However, at valor 60, you're limited to your dailies and weeklies only. This means, usually, 2 chances/day at better gear. Even if I kept doing more wz, I wouldn't have chances to acquire more bm gear. So valor 60 was the bottleneck, and I felt that the sooner I reach that bottleneck, the sooner I could start acquiring the top pvp gear. It's been true since, and my daily play time has significantly gone down. If you have the amount of time I've discussed as was necessary to hit valor 60, I think you should go for it. Otherwise, enjoy the game, make some friends to play with and win, and don't burn yourself out in what's in the end, only a game =)

Edited February 4, 2012 by duyduy

[duyduy]

warzone tips Edited February 4, 2012 by duyduy

[duyduy]

reserved again. oo 30 sec cd for reply, hopefully no one posts =)

[Dycer]

Very informative! Thank you!

[Exiled-Phoenix]

Tl;dr

[Fischer_King]

Enjoyed the post a lot, OP. Different candor and style to may FAQ threads, but great info.

 

Thanks!

[sankalp]

Very informative, specially for someone about to hit 50(am 46) soon.

 

Cheers.

[-Hubris-]

Lots of useful information to be found here, thank you!

[AetherMcLoud]

VERY nice post. Makes me look forward to the time my Assassin alt hits 50!

[grey_fox_uk]

This is by far one of the best posts I've seen on the subject of deception 'sins.

 

From my limited personal experience (a couple of bars away from Valor 50, and half and half Champ/Centurian geared), we seem to be especially gear dependent.

 

I've played as Deception almost exclusively (I had a short stint as Darkness/Madness hybrid, but it wasn't to my tastes). I had a very rough time going from 40-50, both in PvP and PvE. To be fair, I was facing a lot of level 50s with expertise, but even once I hit lvl 50 I still felt lack-lustre. However, I'm just getting to the stage now, where I feel like a solid presence on the battlefield, with enough HP and CDs to survive brawls, and enough raw damage output to put the hurt on.

 

The fact that you use a shield generator intrigues me. I too have found myself using Dark Charge to rack up defence medals. I think I'll try running with a shield for a few days and see if the durability is worth the damage trade off.

 

Thanks once again for a great post. I hope you continue to share your insightful experiences.

Edited January 25, 2012 by grey_fox_uk

[Zutha]

Very interesting read and well written.

 

Unfortunately my Sin is 2nd in line atm

[Mazari]

Tl;dr

 

l2r

 

/5chars

[rozee]

A lot of decent information here, though 60 valor only takes a few days of Ilum farming now. I see too many people running around flaring their BM title yet are complete garbage players.