Sorcerer Nerf....

[da_krall]

actually the op is lying.

 

there are many points in his op that are so obviously wrong...

the most funny and obvious one was he claims he does not need healing because his skills provide so much self healing.

every sorc looking at his build will see this big lie

 

also no hybrid sorc playing again at least avarage opponents would skill backslash as it is actually making YOU WORSE!

 

but i know it doesn't matter what i post.

 

so in short: op is totally wrong and i do not believe him playing sorc in endgame pvp. or he has a server with only brain dead monkey as opponents.

 

+1

 

OP is lying and making stuff up and because most people are sheep they believe it rather than try it out for themselves.

[da_krall]

forgot to 1 star this thread so need to post

[Waagabond]

+1

 

OP is lying and making stuff up and because most people are sheep they believe it rather than try it out for themselves.

 

So the 100+ hours many of us have put into PVP and seen this to be true, you mean we are lying too?

 

Stop protecting your FOTM class that is so absurdly overpowered its not even remotely fun.

 

Heal or DPS, its fine. Some CC and utility is fine. But to be so strong in all 3, at the same time, is not balanced.

 

The sage and sorc fills a vital role as mainly healers. Their dps is not required but at this point is so good even for PVE they easily fill major dps roles.

 

They are not balanced for PVP, but a great class for PVE.

Its just as simple as that.

[me_unknown]

I agree about our utility (the good CC improvements are way too low in our trees which allows us to grab all of them and still have plenty of points for our damage). I agree that we can heal better as DPS spec than other classes that have heals when they are specced dps.

 

you say our tree, but judging by the content i somehow doubt you play a sage/sorc.

as a hybrid you can only get ONE addition usefull cc feature compared to the pure,

which actually is only true for one of the two pure speccs because the other one gets a 31point new cc ability with a 18s strong dot.

 

they main reason for playing hybrid is not that you get MORE utilities, it is that you can do some damge while you are running away being able to throw two high damage long cast abilities (well only compared to our abilities it is high damage, compared to other classes they are low) on the run.

 

don't tell me you consider skilling backslash/kinetic collaps for pvp. you gimp yourself with this!

[Waagabond]

over the top? a hybrid specc (which has the most of all) has around 1 more utility than a watchman sentinel or even less than a focus sentinel.

 

and a sroc has the lowest single target damage of ALL classes, no matter his build.

 

a sorc is the only class with no real burst damage, at least nothing that is worth being called burst.

 

no, i do not intend to say sorc is underpowered. sorc/sage has a build (with a few veriants) that is balanced. and this is the a hybrid build. that's all!

 

p.s. the hybrid build of the op sucks!

 

Stop right there.

 

You have the lowest BURST, but even a dps specd sage can crit for 5k, which is about the highest an operative or scoundrel after the nerfs crit on their stealth opener.

After the surge nerf I doubt we hardly see 5k crits anymore.

 

The sorc does alot of damage over a short period of time, such as say 20-30 seconds.

Just cause you dont hit for 3k on each attack but is steadily, during such a GCD hitting the same number, but the actual screen numbers show, 700, 500, 300, 700..does not mean your damage is low.

 

Get out of the tree your sitting in and stop protecting this class.

Its a Frost mage on steroids with self heals of a holy paladin and shields of a disc priests, coupled with damage over time and self heal abilities of the warlock.

 

How can you combine a frostmage, warlock, holy paladin and a disc priest and take the best aspects of them all and make it into one class....ohh..did I forget Druid in this btw..."Cyclone" with a stun as extra mayo.

 

Its redicilous.

 

Not even Blizzard would ignore such a class imbalance, and they are pretty bad at this kind of things.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Waagabond

[GrandMike]

So the 100+ hours many of us have put into PVP and seen this to be true, you mean we are lying too?

 

Stop protecting your FOTM class that is so absurdly overpowered its not even remotely fun.

 

Heal or DPS, its fine. Some CC and utility is fine. But to be so strong in all 3, at the same time, is not balanced.

 

The sage and sorc fills a vital role as mainly healers. Their dps is not required but at this point is so good even for PVE they easily fill major dps roles.

 

They are not balanced for PVP, but a great class for PVE.

Its just as simple as that.

 

L2P and stop being a baddie.

 

Stop right there.

 

You have the lowest BURST, but even a dps specd sage can crit for 5k, which is about the highest an operative or scoundrel after the nerfs crit on their stealth opener.

After the surge nerf I doubt we hardly see 5k crits anymore.

 

The sorc does alot of damage over a short period of time, such as say 20-30 seconds.

Just cause you dont hit for 3k on each attack but is steadily, during such a GCD hitting the same number, but the actual screen numbers show, 700, 500, 300, 700..does not mean your damage is low.

 

Get out of the tree your sitting in and stop protecting this class.

Its a Frost mage on steroids with self heals of a holy paladin and shields of a disc priests.

 

Not even Blizzard would ignore such a class imbalance, and they are pretty bad at this kind of things.

 

lets compare that ubah damage to simple skill like tracer missile:

 

sage/sorc: 300-500-300

tracer missile 2500

 

sage/sorc 300-500-500

tracer missile 2500

 

tracer missile > sorc

 

and no sorc crits for 5k...if not ganking naked level 15-s

Edited February 15, 2012 by GrandMike

[Deesasther]

cant agree more, sage / sorc is OP as OP said. Class having healing dps bubbles and good cc utility is unbalanced.

[me_unknown]

So the 100+ hours many of us have put into PVP and seen this to be true, you mean we are lying too?

no, i say many (which by far i doubt to be the majority considering that in every such thread there are about the same people saying one and the contrary) simply suck.

 

yes, and it is not surprising. not only in games the most people are not the intelligents and the skilled. the masses are usually dumb.

 

but beside of this, we have here on the forums only a few that are whining compared to the whole player base.

 

so you do not even have the argument of a majority. only a claim of few that mostly not even got 50 till now.

 

p.s. play sage / sorc in endgame pvp and tell me then something about this class.

you know: most times you lose against an opponent of a different class is not because he is better or the class is better: it is because you have no clue about that class and how its mechanics are.

Edited February 15, 2012 by me_unknown

[da_krall]

So the 100+ hours many of us have put into PVP and seen this to be true, you mean we are lying too?

 

Stop protecting your FOTM class that is so absurdly overpowered its not even remotely fun.

 

Heal or DPS, its fine. Some CC and utility is fine. But to be so strong in all 3, at the same time, is not balanced.

 

The sage and sorc fills a vital role as mainly healers. Their dps is not required but at this point is so good even for PVE they easily fill major dps roles.

 

They are not balanced for PVP, but a great class for PVE.

Its just as simple as that.

 

They are not strong in all 3 at the same time.

 

If they are DPS they have bad single target damage but good AOE and terrible heals

If they are healing they have bad single target damage, terrible AoE and great heals

 

They have more CC than most other classes but its 1 or 2 skills but using a couple of them will easily trigger resolve on you opp and then you are dead. This is why many dont use backlash as while it will sometimes save you from death it will mess up your control of a fight by fill up their resolve bar.

 

They are balanced for PvP. If you ignore them they will do lots of damage, if you focus them they die.

 

I have a level 50 sorc, merc and jugg - they are all OP in some way. The merc does insane damage as DPS (my 1.5 second cast will crit for 3-4k and i can do a 5k damage easily every match. On my sorc a 1.5 second cast will crit for 1-2k and i havent hit 5k in a hit yet - highest is 3.8k). The merc also heals as well as my sorc if needed to (though not as many heals because the pool needs more management). My survivbility on my merc is normally less becase i cant run away but i would of done twice if not more of the damage of my sorc in that time because of my armour and defensive CDs.

 

The jugg is just plain insane with the amount of damage and survivability I have(I can have 4-5 people beat on me and easily live for a good 20 seconds - same thing happen on a sorc and im dead, or running away if 4 idiots cant root me, after everyone has done a single GCD) not to mention movement around the battle field with leaps

 

So yes the OP is flat out lying because the build he posted doesn’t do the things he says it can but I am saying you are wrong, very very wrong. Your seeing things from your side only.

 

though there is no point posting about this anymore as the amount of *********** retarded ***** on this forums is unbelievable

Edited February 15, 2012 by da_krall

[Waagabond]

no, i say many (which by far i doubt to be the majority considering that in every such thread there are about the same people saying one and the contrary) simply suck.

 

yes, and it is not surprising. not only in games the most people are not the intelligents and the skilled. the masses are usually dumb.

 

but beside of this, we have here on the forums only a few that are whining compared to the whole player base.

 

so you do not even have the argument of a majority. only a claim of few.

 

p.s. play sage / sorc in endgame pvp and tell me then something about this class.

you know: most times you lose against an opponent of a different class is not because he is better or the class is better: it is because you have no clue about that class and how its mechanics are.

 

So you agree that a player that sucks can be great with this class.

And in the hands of a great player then?.this class shakes the foundations of balanced pvp.

 

And no, its not a few people on forums.

Go out and talk to people.

I have not met anyone, including sorcs or sages, that sais their class is imbalanced.

 

Its just that people cant be asked to go to the forums and above all, many dont even know.

They play for fun, the majority, and its those that are leaving or soon will, from the PVP, due to the class imbalance.

 

Its for the best of the games future to have this fixed or pvp people will leave and let the ones that enjoy PVE continue with this.

Problem is, that I dare say atleasst 40% of SWTORs population plays pvp if not hardcore, but rather often and find it a vital part of the longevity and "fun factor" of the game.

 

Guildwars 2 is going to steal an immense amount of subs, and Im sure old wow fanboys will move back home to their family soon as well, once they realize that even wows at times imbalance is nothing to compare to this game.

 

The general classes ARE balanced, they got it rather spot on in most cases.

 

As a matter of fact, the sorc could be kept as it is, if the operatives and scoundrels was rolled back pre nerf so they would atleast have ONE nemesis out there. At the moment, there is no threat to this class unless they are solo alone in a corner somewhere, and even then, they are a deadly snake you likely will loose too.

 

A bad player can have great success with this class, compared to most others.

Mercs and gunnery commandos I say are in the same boat when it comes to skill to play though.

[me_unknown]

So you agree that a player that sucks can be great with this class.

***? where the hell do you read something like this in my post?

And no, its not a few people on forums.

Go out and talk to people.

I have not met anyone, including sorcs or sages, that sais their class is imbalanced.

you are lying. you see here half of the posters in these whine threads claiming they are not, including me. but whiners are blind and ingoring everything that does not sustain their whining. you know, tears in the eyes etc.

 

but it is very simple: you are wrong!

[me_unknown]

scoundrels was rolled back pre nerf so they would atleast have ONE nemesis out there. At the moment, there is no threat to this class unless they are solo alone in a corner somewhere, and even then, they are a deadly snake you likely will loose too.

makes me fun. want to play a lvl 50 sorc against a lvl 50 marauder/sentinel?

 

no really,

 

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!

[GrandMike]

snip

 

Sooo, your bottom like is:

 

one baddie can be successful against another baddie.

 

So we are now balancing the game around 2 baddies going at it? So it comes down "the class with lowest number os skills to press wins? lol

[BoDiE]

Lol @ the little attention seeker who keeps necro'ing this ollllllllld lolthread.

 

A nerf isn't gonna happen lawl.

[da_krall]

 

As a matter of fact, the sorc could be kept as it is, if the operatives and scoundrels was rolled back pre nerf so they would atleast have ONE nemesis out there. At the moment, there is no threat to this class unless they are solo alone in a corner somewhere, and even then, they are a deadly snake you likely will loose too.

 

Are you kidding, every single class is the sorc nemesis. Mauruders or Juggernaunts will wreck sorc so easily its not even funny there is no running away from them and they out damage us on single target, easy win for the jugg/maur.

 

Snipers will kill us easily if we sit there and take it but if the sorc uses LOS they can get out of sight as snipers dont like to move. But again they can kill sorc easily if they have the drop on them because of their low mitagation. However sorc can kill snipes if they get the drop.

 

Operatives will have problems as their opener doesnt kill sorc anymore and if sorc can get some distance Ops have nothing to close the gap really - though they can slow the sorc and clear any speed debuffs on themselves.

 

Assassins if they concenrate on you will easily out DPS a sorc and the sorc cant really run away from them because they also have force speed, an enermy pull and a slow

 

Mercs out DPS us massively and a sorc cannot damage them enough before the sorc CC and interupts fill the resolve bar and they can just spam tracer missle and the sorc has to run, and if the sorc hides they heal.

 

Powertechs if tank speced can be beat if the fight lasts for about 5minutes if they are damage speced we are dead unless we run.

 

Anyone who is heal speced the sorc might as well not try the healer can heal though their dps.

 

Easest class to kill is another sorc or sage....

 

Their is no class as my sorc that i consider an easy kill. My eyes do light up when i see 3 melee characters beating on a tank and i can start throwing down some massive AoE though. On my merc i love running across, well anyone, apart from a jugg or a maur 1v1 as i know i can fight them, same for my jugg.

Edited February 15, 2012 by da_krall

[Overlord-]

Nerf the sorcerer's and ill reroll a BH where u can score very high DPS being naked and still get as many kills as a fully geared BH [Drakkal] on Shadowtown proved it last night. lol Edited February 15, 2012 by Overlord-

[Waagabond]

They are not strong in all 3 at the same time.

 

If they are DPS they have bad single target damage but good AOE and terrible heals

If they are healing they have bad single target damage, terrible AoE and great heals

 

They have more CC than most other classes but its 1 or 2 skills but using a couple of them will easily trigger resolve on you opp and then you are dead. They are balanced for PvP. If you ignore them they will do lots of damage, if you focus them they die.

 

I have a level 50 sorc, merc and jugg - they are all OP in some way. The merc does insane damage as DPS (my 1.5 second cast will crit for 3-4k and i can do a 5k damage easily every match. On my sorc a 1.5 second cast will crit for 1-2k and i havent hit 5k in a hit yet - highest is 3.8k). The merc also heals as well as my sorc if needed to (though not as many heals because the pool needs more management).

 

The jugg is just plain insane with the amount of damage and survivability I have(I can have 4-5 people beat on me and easily live for a good 20 seconds - same thing happen on a sorc and im dead, or running away if 4 idiots cant root me, after everyone has done a single GCD) not to mention movement around the battle field with leaps

 

So yes the OP is flat out lying because the build he posted doesn’t do the things he says it can but I am saying you are wrong, very very wrong. Your seeing things from your side only.

 

though there is no point posting about this anymore as the amount of *********** retarded ***** on this forums is unbelievable

 

So you are not only playing a sage, you are also playing a tracer missile spamming merc.

Ok.

 

And they dont have more cc then anyone else?

 

Tell me, do you think your Merc have as much cc on demand as the sorc?

Do the Jugg have any cc apart from a rooted cc?

What are you on about?

 

Remove the bubbles and sorcs are fine in my opinion.

its the fact they got everything thats the best of anything that botheres people.

 

And to the person saying Sages cant crit for over 5k?

I dont know what planet you are from but ive seen it happen myself when playing with high geared Sages.

 

Vs high geared opponents operatives and scoundrels will crit for around 4k on their biggest burst, a stealth opener. They can crit with very good gear for up to 6k vs very weak targets.

 

knockback root

Blind after bubble burst

DPS snare

"Cyklone" cc that ends in a 2 second stun

 

Damage over time abilities that self heals.

Sure not by alot but over time, together with a bubble, it matters a lot.

 

Comparing survival with sage and a juggernaut is just a redicilous statement.

But the fun is that unless the sorc is in someway ccd he can tank 3 people.

Slap a guard on him and you need 5 people to kill a good geared and well played sorc.

 

The problem with sorcs, is not only the sorc himself, its that they are everywhere and where there is one, there is another, and another, and another.

 

I honestly would not have so much problem or notice it so much if it was a rare class.

But when they take up around 30% of the complete imp side and same for sages on rep, you need to wonder whats going on. Its definately NOT for the cool factor of the class, cause its rather lame.

 

They need to be toned down, take away some cc or stick it higher in the trees.

 

Its the 20/21 build that ruins it and make the class overpowered.

As pure dps or pure healer I think they are rather good.

But there is no PVPer out there in their right mind that is not specced hybrid with this class in its current state.

 

Sins was nerfed in making talents unreachable for hybrid specs then why not sorcs and sages, which is in greater need of such a nerf then any other class.

[Eltohan]

Good thread to read if you ignore the trolls/sorc-sage fanboys and just read the objective ones that admit they have way to much tools to control the output of a fight.

[Adzzy]

people take the scoreboards too seriously

 

a sorcerer casts bubble, mitigates 3k damage or so, gets that in healing

 

a powertech or merc wear heavy armor, activates energy shield mitigates thousands upon thousands, but all that does to the scoreboard is reduce the enemy's damage by that amount.

[Liriana]

I am pure heals and get 2-4 medals a match with 300-500K healing except hutball which is somewhere between 120-200k.

 

I also serve as a massive distract while people kill me and my team completes objectives since I rarely solo queue.

 

In VS it is very easy to get high numbers, I normally get 500-700K healing while being target by 2-4 peeeps at once. thank you Guard

 

But Sorcerers are completely easy to kill, this spec happens to have every CC and escape mechanic in it, although its single target DPS is crap. Funny but a person with this build is not actually helping their team, they are jsut farming. And you can get jsut as many medals and be usefull with full lightning spec easier IMO

[Darth_Philar]

I guess the OP must be running one of those 31/31/31 specs I've been hearing everyone on the forums whining about.

 

Bubble counts as healing, throw it up on everyone and your warzone healing numbers will be high.

 

Utility is offset by low burst and low survivability.

 

Utility is also separated by tree. You can't have every one with one spec.

 

Damage is very low unless you are multi-dotting. Multi-dotting rarely helps your team and is mostly only used to pad stats for the scoresheet.

 

Fact is, Sorcerers deal pathetic damage and die very fast. The utility is required in order to survive. As one of the only non "Run and Gun" classes, sorcerer's playstyle is unique which makes it popular. This popularity is seen by some (those suffering from Confirmation Bias) as evidence the class is over powered. Bioware has themselves said the class is the most balanced.

 

Don't waste your time asking for nerfs that won't happen. Instead ask for buffs and balance in your own class.

 

EDIT: I suppose I ought to also throw in the obligatory "L2P" as well.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Darth_Philar

[me_unknown]

Tell me, do you think your Merc have as much cc on demand as the sorc?

Do the Jugg have any cc apart from a rooted cc?

What are you on about?

 

please, do some investigation and at best play these classes and then answer this question yourself. you will be VERY surprised how wrong your post is

 

p.s. count them all and also consider their cd. then tell me again sage/sorc has far superior cc/anti cc then them.

 

and when you are done with this pleas let us talk about the pvp single target damage and how much impact has the sole ability called "interrupt" on a sage and that you can't actually significally interrupt a melees damage

Edited February 15, 2012 by me_unknown

[da_krall]

So you are not only playing a sage, you are also playing a tracer missile spamming merc.

Ok.

Sorc and sage are a mirror.....

 

And they dont have more cc then anyone else?

 

Tell me, do you think your Merc have as much cc on demand as the sorc?

Do the Jugg have any cc apart from a rooted cc?

What are you on about?

 

Because both those classes have more armour and defensive CDs the juggernaunt has slows, interrupts and leaps which are all forms of CC, as well as holds and stuns all on short CDs.

 

CC is just a means for reducing damage or maximising damage on the opp. the other classes have in built always on CC.

 

Remove the bubbles and sorcs are fine in my opinion.

Yes lets not forget that 3k bubble with a 20second lockout. How much damage does your class do over that time?

 

its the fact they got everything thats the best of anything that botheres people.

 

They dont have the best heals, they dont have the best DPS, they dont have the best survivbility - what they do have is average most things and great AoE.

 

And to the person saying Sages cant crit for over 5k?

I dont know what planet you are from but ive seen it happen myself when playing with high geared Sages.

A couple months back, yes i could get a 5k hit if i popped all trinkets and had a pvp buff going on, since the last few patches not had one above 4k.

 

And theres no combat log, no one can be that sure where the damage is coming from unless its dual. I freind i pvped with raged at a 7k sorc in 1 GCD hit just last week until i pointed out to him there was a sniper behind him he hadnt spotted who probably did their bomb+snipe attack.

 

 

Vs high geared opponents operatives and scoundrels will crit for around 4k on their biggest burst, a stealth opener. They can crit with very good gear for up to 6k vs very weak targets.

Dont use an operative as a comparision, after the rounds of nerfs i believe they are easily the least OP of the classes that all have something really OP working in their favour.

 

knockback root

Its a nice ability, helps keep me alive when all the melee jump on me, course it only last 2 seconds if they get damaged but most people dont mention that and just mention the 5 seconds if they arent being damage duration.

 

Blind after bubble burst

Not really that great imo. Dont get me wrong it helps if lots if melee jump on you at one time but it really messes up the resolve bar management as it fills it enough that any other CC and they have a full resolve bar. Its also good used offensively but again using it at the wrong time can cause bad things to happen (eg filling a resolve bar before the last firepit in huttball)

 

DPS snare

If by DPS you mean 3k damage over 3 seconds (before armour mitagation)....let me call the MMO police its such a crime.......

 

"Cyklone" cc that ends in a 2 second stun

Which is garenteed to fill their resolve bar, good luck using all your 'CC' once you have used this ability. If you arent on the other side of the of a big line of your team once this runs out you are dead.

 

Damage over time abilities that self heals.

Again its another case for the MMO police, those 68-120 HP heals are so game breaking, when i am being smacked for 2k,4k,3k,6k.

 

Sure not by alot but over time, together with a bubble, it matters a lot.

Sorry even with the all powerful 10k damage absorbing bubble of madeup myth, the self heals are bad. tell you what make them self damaging instead of heals and i would hardly notice them.

 

Comparing survival with sage and a juggernaut is just a redicilous statement.

But the fun is that unless the sorc is in someway ccd he can tank 3 people.

Slap a guard on him and you need 5 people to kill a good geared and well played sorc.

OK now we are bringing a tanks gaurd into the conversation on OP sorcs.....how many more people does the sorc get on his side in the 1v1 comparision? Any DPS with guard on is a massive pain in the ***

 

The problem with sorcs, is not only the sorc himself, its that they are everywhere and where there is one, there is another, and another, and another.

Ok so again we are talking about more than 1 sorc??? I can tell you more than 1 juggernaunt is really annoying as well, and another, and another, and another.

 

I honestly would not have so much problem or notice it so much if it was a rare class.

But when they take up around 30% of the complete imp side and same for sages on rep, you need to wonder whats going on. Its definately NOT for the cool factor of the class, cause its rather lame.

Again any 3 people beating on you is going to hurt, and unless your a tank it will kill you in a handful of seconds. Using theres a lot of them as a reason to nerf them is not valid.

 

 

They need to be toned down, take away some cc or stick it higher in the trees.

Maybe but then i think almost all classes need some toning down. The sorc doesnt need special attention. I think their healing is somewhat OP as a healing speced class when compared to the other healing classes, actually, forget that the merc healer is also very good. Its just a case of the Operative being a bit ****** again

Edited February 15, 2012 by da_krall

[jimkan]

You are so damn right! sorcerers are too good in pvp, in pve they are okay, so i hope bioware will try to not nerf the sorcerer pveing too much

 

And yes, crushing darkness is Very godd if you put that other what was the attack named...... "affliction" ? well something like that, its awesome, and even force lighting on there.. force lighting spam.

 

Sorcerers have to be nerfed a bit, and this is how i wich they should be nerfed : force lighting a little bit less damage, and crushing darkness too.

And i hope they take away that slow thing from sorcerers (S inquisitor) and put it only to assassins.

And i hope they take away that overload and put an like... if any of you reading this played wow balance druid, so that wave they had, anyways so they make like an shock wave that pushes them more but only works at targets in front the sorcerer...

[Masterveit]

And the Madness with the Nerfbat comes again ...

 

Players crying out for nerfs have some distingt problems :

 

- they dont analyse theyre playstyle

- bad decision making

- Not using enviroment to theyre advantage

- Not taking LOS into account

- Bad Timing when using Off or DEF CD's

- Wrong playstile

and now very important --> Not using theyre Class to its Full potential.

 

Ask youreself : Did i really use all what i could and did i make all my decisions right. And be honest about that part at least to yourself.

 

Please stop whining and work on youre game because its obviously flawed ! And dont forget its not all about DMG its about a good team playing actually together to its full potential then the classes dont matter !

 

So far : Raya'Storm / T3-M4 / Pé Vau Pé