Pythoris Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Ummm what was that supposed to show? That my argument is the same then and now? Nice backpedal! Very well done! It's not about the lore of TOR. It's about the lore of every other time period I've explained this..... why is this so hard for you? I know it's been asked of you before (and you've failed to deliver on it quite badly) but I must ask again. Please forgive me. Sources, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meiu Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You know what hypocrite. I'm done talking to you. From now on people that start the post with "you're a troll" prove they're not here to discuss anything. Just call people names and then blame them for being rude. Yeah, I bet that works for you in real life..... Actually in real life I get commended for calling things as they are. That is what makes the military a really great place to be sometimes compared to dancing around the subject in the civilian world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pythoris Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You know what hypocrite. I'm done talking to you. From now on people that start the post with "you're a troll" prove they're not here to discuss anything. Just call people names and then blame them for being rude. Yeah, I bet that works for you in real life..... lol You ad hominem like a champ. Good job, brah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolxTheUnmaker Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So what would you say if i said "I, THE PAYING PLAYER, wants to use a Red Saber/Blaster and play Light Side" (I like the color Red and Black)? The Color is cosmetic and does not break game play in anyway. This also applies to alignment gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Nice backpedal! Very well done! I'm seriously trying to figure out how posting me making the same argument twice is back pedaling? Sources, please. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Books Seriously....any of them. Edited January 25, 2012 by Spymaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaeAichi Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Might I comment that synthetic lightsaber crystals are red in color. wookiepedia on synthetic crystals so red isn't necessarily evil, but becomes associated with evil. ((If vader's had been blue, blue would be evil)). Frankly...the whole red=bad comes down to whoever decided to make Vader's saber red. Of course we are getting into archetypes with that one.... Archetypal Colors Color = positive (negative) Black = power (death, mourning) Blue = nobility, tranquility (depression) Brown = Earth, nature (confusion) Gray = neutral (passionless) Green = fertility, renewal, wealth (greed, envy) Orange = adventure, change (forced change, disruptiveness) Purple = royalty, positive personal growth (injury) Red = sex, love (sacrifice, taboo, humiliation, danger) White = purity, wholesomeness, rebirth (emptiness) Yellow = enlightenment (cowardice, illness) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaddaq Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 "It's TOO MANY!!!" Hello, This is an unsubstantiated opinion. You are entitled to your opinions, but not to foist them upon others who don't share those opinions. If you don't like red crystals, I suggest you don't use them and move on in serenity. Your attempts to be a crystal evangelist does not warm my heart, especially if your opinion ever goes so far as to request tangible changes to gameplay. Even if you wanted to presume some kind of paucity of red crystals in Republic space (which is false,) Simple logic dictates that red crystals are becoming available to Republic characters in vast numbers. Just as blue and green are becoming available to Sith Empire characters in vast numbers. Why? Because this is a time of conflict, and every engagement between a Sith and a Jedi results in someone acquiring a lightsaber of the opposing faction, including the crystals therein. Sith faction characters, ruled by passion, may possibly revel in using an opposing faction's crystal as a trophy of war. Jedi faction characters, ruled by serene logic, would use a desirable crystal of any color, even if it happened to be red. So even if we imagined a Galaxy where crystals of a particular color only grow on faction worlds, we have a situation where many crystals are falling into opposing faction hands. We also have a vast number of young recruits being rushed into action who may care less for 'tradition' and more for 'efficacy.' In short: Lore says Red crystals CAN be used. Logic says Red crystals WILL be used. When you take a padawan, if you are a traditionalist, you are free to forbid them a red crystal because of your personal tastes and your adherence to traditional coloration. Then, when they become Jedi, they will be free to ignore you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meiu Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Nice backpedal! Very well done! I know it's been asked of you before (and you've failed to deliver on it quite badly) but I must ask again. Please forgive me. Sources, please. Yeah, I completely agree with you. There are many times I wonder about the educational background of people considering so few people know how to actually provide proper proof or give sources. Even people who don't understand differences between good and bad sources. It can be very hard to have a civil or intellectual conversation when people are so used to using logical fallacies or arguing from the stand point of emotion. These arguments as you have seen crumble extremely quickly when you ask for them to fulfill the burden of proof that is required to accompany a given claim. Everything typed out as I sip my brandy, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 So what would you say if i said "I, THE PAYING PLAYER, wants to use a Red Saber/Blaster and play Light Side" (I like the color Red and Black)? I'd say... ok fine, just admit you're out of place and we can move on. Sadly people can't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BaconStrips_ Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Holy crap why does this thread have 74 pages...? What a waste, if you people would get half was worked up about screwing us on server forums maybe something would have been done about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pythoris Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'm seriously trying to figure out how posting me making the same argument twice is back pedaling? No, this is an example of you being proven either a bad liar or someone with a very bad memory. Either way, even accidental backpedaling is still backpedaling. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Books Seriously....any of them. So very unlike the people who could actually quote ACTUAL SOURCES that proved you wrong, your only response is "Go read a book. It's in there." I remember I had a very strict debate teacher in college. It's a good thing you weren't in my class. She probably would have made you cry. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pythoris Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Yeah, I completely agree with you. There are many times I wonder about the educational background of people considering so few people know how to actually provide proper proof or give sources. Even people who don't understand differences between good and bad sources. It can be very hard to have a civil or intellectual conversation when people are so used to using logical fallacies or arguing from the stand point of emotion. These arguments as you have seen crumble extremely quickly when you ask for them to fulfill the burden of proof that is required to accompany a given claim. Everything typed out as I sip my brandy, obviously. Well, I'm personally just having some fun. It's not every day someone makes it this easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meiu Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'm seriously trying to figure out how posting me making the same argument twice is back pedaling? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Books Seriously....any of them. Quoting an aggregate of sources is not giving us sources. Sources are direct to the information this includes page numbers, paragraphs, or even lines of specific text to fulfill your burden of proof. You can't convince an audience that isn't interested in your information when you are showing no effort to try to persuade us. This is exactly the wrong type of argumentation you want to use when you are trying to sway people to your opinion to get something you want to be done. Consider using a different approach and you may get better results. I am interested in your opinion but only if it is properly conveyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolxTheUnmaker Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'd say... ok fine, just admit you're out of place and we can move on. Sadly people can't do that. YES, i am out of place and i really dont care. I have always played a Light character WHILE looking like a Dark character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Might I comment that synthetic lightsaber crystals are red in color. Synthetic crystals come in all colors, not just red. Edited January 25, 2012 by Zorvan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) This is an unsubstantiated opinion. No, it's completely substantiated because we have thousands of known years in StarWars history to show that they are rare. The fact that they are not rare in this game is too many to fit with the rest of known history is not opinion, it's true. They aren't rare in this game. They are rare all through the rest of known history. Is it possivble that this is the one time in history when Jedi use red? Sure... does it fit with the setting of Star Wars? No, no it doesn't. If you don't like red crystals, It's not about what I like though. It's about what fits the setting. Everyone using red does't fit. Just admit it. So even if we imagined a Galaxy where crystals of a particular color only grow on faction worlds, You can imagine whatever you want... but that doens't change the setting the game takes place in. In short: Lore says Red crystals CAN be used. Logic says Red crystals WILL be used., And he setting says they won't be. That's all I'm saying. Edited January 25, 2012 by Spymaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meiu Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) No, this is an example of you being proven either a bad liar or someone with a very bad memory. Either way, even accidental backpedaling is still backpedaling. So very unlike the people who could actually quote ACTUAL SOURCES that proved you wrong, your only response is "Go read a book. It's in there." I remember I had a very strict debate teacher in college. It's a good thing you weren't in my class. She probably would have made you cry. lol I appears we have had similar professors. However, mine wasn't a debate teacher, he taught Literary Interpretation and Analysis alongside another class that was Persuasion and Exposition. Edited January 25, 2012 by Meiu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaeAichi Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Synthetic crystals come in all colors, not just red. My bad on that BUT. "A Synthetic lightsaber crystal, commonly referred to as a Synth-crystal, is a type of lightsaber crystal that is artificially created, rather than naturally formed by geological processes. Due to the methods used in their creation, they often formed with a red coloration, though they could be made with any color through special manipulations of either the creation process or the crystal itself, often through the Force.' Synth crystal Often is a strong word in this context. Not conclusive and i do not take it to mean ALWAYS, but at least 2/3rd of the time it would be red, as to me, that is often. BTW...way to cut my post down to the bare minimum.... Edited January 25, 2012 by TaeAichi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 No, this is an example of you being proven either a bad liar or someone with a very bad memory. Either way, even accidental backpedaling is still backpedaling. It was the same exact argument!!!!! How does that prove anything?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meiu Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) My bad on that BUT. "A Synthetic lightsaber crystal, commonly referred to as a Synth-crystal, is a type of lightsaber crystal that is artificially created, rather than naturally formed by geological processes. Due to the methods used in their creation, they often formed with a red coloration, though they could be made with any color through special manipulations of either the creation process or the crystal itself, often through the Force.' Synth crystal Often is a strong word in this context. Not conclusive and i do not take it to mean ALWAYS, but at least 2/3rd of the time it would be red, as to me, that is often. BTW...way to cut my post down to the bare minimum.... Synthetic crystals also had the rare chance of shorting out natural crystals. Which is why you so often see red/synth crystals used by dark siders for the slight, if rare, advantage they offer. If not at the least to put a tad bit of fear into their opponent, that at any random moment, could short their lightsaber out and follow through with a fatal attack. So using the canon knowledge that red synth crystals can short out other lightsabers you would ASSUME that during a time of war more people would turn to using these red synth crystals for the advantage they give during wartime. If anything this is more proof for using red crystals more widely than the OP has presented proof to the contrary. Edited January 25, 2012 by Meiu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaddaq Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 And he setting says they won't be. That's all I'm saying. Hello, I realize this is all you are saying. It's quite frustrating, because you are offering opinion with no substance. All you are saying over and over again is that you read some books where the Jedi mentioned weren't sporting red lightsabers. You can't even point to a line of text that mentions a paucity of red lightsabers. Merely that you feel they should be rare, presumably because your favorite characters and scenes don't feature them. The setting lore says they can be used. You are suggesting some kind of fashion or tradition that makes use rare in this time period, based exclusively on your feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pythoris Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I appears we have had similar professors. However, mine wasn't a debate teacher, he taught Literary Interpretation and Analysis alongside another class that was Persuasion and Exposition. Yeah, looks like both kind of classes have professors that require one to be able to quote resources and quote them well, or you,d be sent home with tears in your eyes and a big fat red F on your paper. (In numeric form, of course.) I'm kind of glad she was so strict, actually. Ican actually quote sources and look up facts and avoid using ad hominems. She was, like, a sith apprentice instructor. Well, minus the student deaths. That I know of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pythoris Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 It was the same exact argument!!!!! How does that prove anything?? Yes, the argument you made before that you said you didn't make. Then backpedaled on when I proved you did, in fact, make it. I know. I was there. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaeAichi Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Synthetic crystals also had the rare chance of shorting out natural crystals. Which is why you so often see red/synth crystals used by dark siders for the slight, if rare, advantage they offer. If not at the least to put a tad bit of fear into their opponent that at any random moment they could short their lightsaber out and follow through with a fatal attack. Yep...I've read the article, and it would make sense that sith would certainly use Red crystals for this purpose. ((Of course....since you can MAKE crystals in this game)) That leads me to believe that all of the made crystals (Ones you can swap in and out) to be synthetic, indeed showing that most of them are force manipulated. Of course....look at the NON-moddable sabers for a more accurate split of whom gets what.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 So very unlike the people who could actually quote ACTUAL SOURCES that proved you wrong, your only response is "Go read a book. It's in there." What are you even taling about? You're so biased. One guy posted a link about Dark Jedi and a long list of Dark Jedi who wre actually that actually proved me right, and had nothing to do with the topic.... And now you're dishonestly pretending I was proven wrong? Why because the guy said it so it must be so? That guy proved NOTHING. He supports red sabers so you bought into it, that's all. My sorce actually does prove me right, you just won't read the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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