How would YOU nerf or buff operatives/scoundrels?

[Gomfedj]

I figured i would start a new thread with a new idea/direction, i see lots of QQing about the nerf being gods gift to man! and lots of QQing about it being the end of a class (and the world) as a whole!

 

So how would you NERF scoundrels/operatives if you had too? it is clear there are some issues with the classes (all the classes have issues btw, i am not saying they are the ONLY ones)...

 

Me personally, i think turning the "knockdown" on opener into a new skill, perhaps just a 2nd stun that requires upper hand, also put a 5+ second cooldown on the opening stealth attack.

 

Reason i suggestion those? people do hate that in 1 move your doing 3k and if you listen to some people 9k of damage on your opening hit, AND your getting a 3 second stun, you are then (if you wanted) able to restealth, and do it ALL over again within seconds of doing it once, That to me sounds like a game breaking mechanic considering these classes are suppose to be front loaded dps, your doubling up on your ability to front load. (at least every 2-3 minutes for vanish cooldown)...

 

If people had a second to react before being stunned, giving the possibility of being able to to a knock back if they have it, or a stun on you even if they can spin around fast, would help on all the "i died before i could stand up" argument, also not being able to do 2 opening stealth attacks in a row just seems like flat out logic, no reason (even if it is a 2+ minute cooldown on vanish1!!) should you be able to stealth hit, restealth and hit again like that..

 

As for DPS reduction by lowering the damage done by the opening attack, or by lowering armor penetration, i would really want to see some numbers (not specuilation, and "stories" by players!) real numbers/logs and not the assumption that bioware MUST be doing that already *rolls eyes*

 

i would love to see how those changes affect the "idea" that operatives and scoundrels are doing "insane" dps and honestly if they attack you your dead no matter WHAT you do (which i personally don't believe as a scoundrel, but i am not specced into that tree i am healing specced)

 

As for buffs, heck besides making diagnostic scan worthwhile, most of our skills/tools are pretty good "as is" if used right, though some of the skills in the lower parts of the spec trees are fairly weak unless you go VERY far into the tree to get boosts to them and such, but i figure all the classes are that way! (haven't tried an alt, hate alts, personally i love concentrating on just one character )

 

anyways throw out your ideas,

 

please no trolling or "qq more plz" or "bioware got it perfect! (considering i doubt you tested it i would love to know how you know that btw)"

 

if ya don't like someone's idea though feel free to argue against it

 

oh btw before a moderator randomly moves this to the smuggler or operative or scoundrel, or suggestion forum realize i posted this here, due to the fact 99% of the discussion about scoundrels is going on in this section, AND any changes made would be on the test server first! (sorry see lots of "random" moves of threads today depending on the mood of the mod i think )

[naffets]

Didnt read the entire post but get the general idea

 

Been reading a lot on this and tbh having been hit by the from stealth ability a LOT, it stings like a fecker. Takes a huge chunk of my health off consistently.

 

However, I've been hit by a decent-gear opponent by this in pvp and through popping all my cooldowns and a stim (the pvp expertise one) I managed to take him down - and have 20% hp left.

 

So yes, it's overpowered but with the correct technique and enough cooldowns it's not always a win.

 

I agree it needs changing, but I don't know by how much.

 

PS I'm a Marauder.

Edited January 23, 2012 by naffets

[Chaotika]

completely getting rid of the 3 seconds stun would be step 1, quite frankly i'm already specced out of it. Dirty kick does the same job BETTER, stuns for a second longer, doesn't bug out and leave their body somewhere the 3 seconds is wasted and doesn't completely fill the resolve bar.

 

step 2 would be to increase the shoot first nerf to 40%, additionally nerfing backblasts damage approx 20% and lowering their energy cost substantially.

 

step 3 would be to raise acid blade/flachette back to 50% and add a talent where K.O use to be that allows the use of hidden strike/ back blast within combat whenever backblast crits.

 

step 4 would be to remove the group stealth ability and in it's place put a shadow dance/ shadow step hybrid ability on a 2-3 minute cooldown that teleports you to your target, for a limited time making back blast crit and removing it's positional.

 

depending on how our sustained output is at this point i would consider giving us a "marked for death" type ability that would increase damage a target took for a set ammount of time to make us group friendly. But not to a point where we are required, or ridiculous in pvp, something to the tune of 10-15% for 10-15 seconds.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Chaotika

[Rebirdhk]

I don't quite see the point why you say that there is no reason to do 2 stealth opener. We are sacrificing our only real escape skill on 2 mins CD for an extra hit to gain a burst. The trade off here is not unreasonable at all.

 

I do share a similar perspective of your that making the stun part and damage part into 2 separated skill, but the problem is on the GCD part. Lack of long range snare or other leap ability already make us having a hard time to close the gap with our opponent. They can easily get 10 meters away if they use their 2mins unroot skill while we're still on the GCD of our second move and start turning the table already.

 

My idea is that, keep what they are going to do with the concealment/scrapper tree in 1.1.1. But in addition, give us some more utility that allow us to strategize the fight and react to situation different situation instead of the current all or nothing situation.

 

I really think it is a good opportunities to review the mechanism of OP/Scoundrel class. I mean cover is an interesting mechanism IA/Smuggler. But what we see now is OP/Scoundrel rarely using it, while sniper/gunslinger heavily depend on it. OP is not even frequently touching with their main weapon - rifle at all.

 

I don't mean their totally useless atm. Right now if i can't chase my target, i'll just take cover and blow a explosive probe / sab charge on my target and spam snipe/blasted charge. I see potential in how cover works for OP/Scoundrel, so why don't we utilize this unique mechanism, like maybe let our explosive probe snare the target for few secs. Rather than almost abandon the whole mechanism once we choose to be stealth master.

[Gomfedj]

I don't quite see the point why you say that there is no reason to do 2 stealth opener. We are sacrificing our only real escape skill on 2 mins CD for an extra hit to gain a burst. The trade off here is not unreasonable at all.

 

I do share a similar perspective of your that making the stun part and damage part into 2 separated skill, but the problem is on the GCD part. Lack of long range snare or other leap ability already make us having a hard time to close the gap with our opponent. They can easily get 10 meters away if they use their 2mins unroot skill while we're still on the GCD of our second move and start turning the table already.

 

My idea is that, keep what they are going to do with the concealment/scrapper tree in 1.1.1. But in addition, give us some more utility that allow us to strategize the fight and react to situation different situation instead of the current all or nothing situation.

 

I really think it is a good opportunities to review the mechanism of OP/Scoundrel class. I mean cover is an interesting mechanism IA/Smuggler. But what we see now is OP/Scoundrel rarely using it, while sniper/gunslinger heavily depend on it. OP is not even frequently touching with their main weapon - rifle at all.

 

I don't mean their totally useless atm. Right now if i can't chase my target, i'll just take cover and blow a explosive probe / sab charge on my target and spam snipe/blasted charge. I see potential in how cover works for OP/Scoundrel, so why don't we utilize this unique mechanism, like maybe let our explosive probe snare the target for few secs. Rather than almost abandon the whole mechanism once we choose to be stealth master.

 

Reason i suggest the change is i don't think our vanish skill was ever ment to allow a 2nd opening stealth attack, it was designed to be a "get of a jail" card when in a tight situation in PvE (stealth got popped un expectedly) or in PvP (everyone after you, or your almost dead)... but it is being used as another way to front load damage, if they planned on us doing that, then i see why they are nerfing that opening attack.

 

I agree about "cover" not being used, i am not sure how different IA/smugglers are, but i NEVER use cover anymore i have 2 kills that take it, one is one of my ONLY attacks that has a cast bar (overcharged shot) the other is my explosive charge skill (sounds like your explosive probe attack).. that is it, nothing else requires cover, and coming in/out of cover is so slow in PvP i rarely use it, unless i am on the turret defense/capture map in warzones (i can prevent them from leaping too me to buy more time defending and also pop in/out of cover to prevent captures of turrets)

 

Though considering 95% of my attacks all require 5m distance i think i have one that is 15m and then the basic blaster volly that is 30m... cover just seems pointless for a scoundrel, would take a LOT of work to make it worthwhile..

[Rainsfords]

I'm a valor rank 60+ Op on the Twin Spears, and play the class well enough where I get a few hate messages every game. I've noticed that Operative is a pretty strong DPS class, but that was the point. We don't do anything else unless we spec deep into medicine, and unlike Assassins we can't taunt/guard on command. We can tear apart low hp/undergeared players, but struggle on geared/competent players. If our first few hits don't do serious damage, we can't kill anything. Here are my thoughts on how this could be fixed:

 

Acid Blade shouldn't do any damage, but should instead apply an effect to the target that increases their damage taken. The fact that it gives the Operative an armor pen buff makes no sense, and I would imagine that the only reason why it doesn't apply a -armor debuff is because BH already does that. So why not give it a blanket +20% damage taken for 6 seconds effect? That reduces our burst damage (Acid Blade, especially when it crits, hit's VERY hard) while at the same time making us very group friendly. It's more accurate to the roll of an operative as a "commando" is is spotting and tagging enemies.

 

Lethality, as it stands now, is very lackluster. I respecced into it (with enough points to get Weakening Blast) and it's awkward, energy consuming and hard to execute. The first problem is energy. Stim Boost from Lethality and Concealment will restore the same amount over an extended period, but the Lethality version eats up more TA's because it needs to be recast more often. The fix for this is simple: Switch the talents so the Concealment Stim Boost restores more energy instantly but needs to be cast more often, and the Lethality one stays up longer and ticks harder.

 

The other problem Lethality runs into is how hard it is to get TA's in the first place. Having every Lethality centric skill be 10m, but having the only way to build TA out of stealth be Shiv, doesn't synergize at all. The easy fix to this would be to have poison effects that crit have a chance to proc a TA, similar to how Hots work in the medicine tree. With this, you could actually put out more Cullings instead of the one or two every ten seconds you can use now.

 

As for it being a poison centric tree, having only one extra poison doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The added fact that most of the talents in the tree seem to be ones that belong in a more PvP centeric tree like Concealment make it even more useless. A quick fix would be to move Acid Blade and it's heavy, short duration poison into the Lethality tree while making the corrosive dart effect be a talent that causes Frag Grenade to apply the poison. The talents could be made up for by putting some of the PvP ones (like a shorter Debilitate CD) into concealment.

 

These changes, overall, would do a few things. It would make Concealment less bursty while not destroying its DPS while at the same time making it a very powerful spec to have on a team. The lethality changes would make it a very powerful PvE spec that could keep up with Sorcs and BH's while not dumbing it down. The high dps would be dependent on you keeping up your poisons and intelligently managing your energy. The fact that DoTs can be easily cleansed in pvp would keep the tree focused on pve without turning it into something that's overpowered in pvp. I understand that changes to Lethality present a problem, since it's a "shared" tree, but part of the issue is the fact that there are shared trees at all. Sniper's and Operatives are completely different classes, and the fact that there is a tree that they are supposed to "split" doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

I know it was a lot, but thanks for reading.

[Torn]

I didnt read the whole post but my ideas would be:

 

HS now has a 20sec CD

 

Lower the duration of the knockdown (cant remember the name) to 2 sec.

 

and MAYBE if that still showed a bit to much burst damage:

 

HS damage down 10-15%

 

Shiv damage up 5-10% (helps make up for the above in our sustained damage)

 

 

The nerfs as is are stupid and anyone saying the are based on "data" have no logic in their brain whatsoever - What data are they using? 1.1 just came out, they just made the changes to consumables and PvP brackets and they do not even have a way to copy your 50 over to the PTR!!!!!

 

If this nerf goes through it WILL be because of forum QQ and lowby PvP - they will lose subs over it as well - no one likes rolling a class and then having the spec they rolled it for gutted into uselessness - I DONT want to be a healer, I want to be concealment, thanks for making me gimp in PvP and undesired for PvE

 

Who changes a class this much a month after release? Seriously - i dont know if they are stupid or just ignorant - I dont pay to Beta test the game!!!! That should already have been done!!!

Edited January 24, 2012 by Torn

[JimmyPopPopcorn]

I was wondering if these nerfs could apply to pvp only.

 

I've gone up against ops and scoundrels as a tank in full champion gear and for some of them, they get off so much dmg on you so fast you may be lucky to stand and die instead of just lie there and die. Either way I've taken it like a man for a while now and welcome a nerf.

 

So while I welcome a nerf in pvp I may not welcome it in pve. Would love to have them in my group doing all the dmg they do.

 

Not sure it's possible but if it is, seems like a nice way to make everyone happy - depending on what the nerf result is in pvp for ops/scound.

Edited January 24, 2012 by JimmyPopPopcorn

[ShadowsWarrior]

I got an idea for all of you...stop QQing and get to 50 and gear up. If you gear up i wont be able to burn you down so fast. Its not our fault you want to stand around WAY under geared then when we kill you, you come to the forums and QQ about it all day with the 100s of others that made your mistake. Gear up and stop be cry babies. There is no way possible for me to burn down a Champion geared player, i have to use everything i can just to get them to 40% while im kitting them around popping everything to stay alive with my 5% left. Im a 50 Operative(3/31/7) on The Dark Reaper server, My name is ShadowsAgent. I have almost full champion gear except for the pants and belt and the biggest crit i have ever gotten was 5547, mind you i had a reusable stim on, adrenal and expertise bonus and on top of that it was a sorc that i found without a bubble. So now after the patch tonight ill have a lvl 50 thats completely and utterly useless. Thanks to all you QQers out there. Thanks to BW for ruining one of the best MMOs ive played.

[Rebirdhk]

Reason i suggest the change is i don't think our vanish skill was ever ment to allow a 2nd opening stealth attack, it was designed to be a "get of a jail" card when in a tight situation in PvE (stealth got popped un expectedly) or in PvP (everyone after you, or your almost dead)... but it is being used as another way to front load damage, if they planned on us doing that, then i see why they are nerfing that opening attack.

 

I agree about "cover" not being used, i am not sure how different IA/smugglers are, but i NEVER use cover anymore i have 2 kills that take it, one is one of my ONLY attacks that has a cast bar (overcharged shot) the other is my explosive charge skill (sounds like your explosive probe attack).. that is it, nothing else requires cover, and coming in/out of cover is so slow in PvP i rarely use it, unless i am on the turret defense/capture map in warzones (i can prevent them from leaping too me to buy more time defending and also pop in/out of cover to prevent captures of turrets)

 

Though considering 95% of my attacks all require 5m distance i think i have one that is 15m and then the basic blaster volly that is 30m... cover just seems pointless for a scoundrel, would take a LOT of work to make it worthwhile..

 

As i say, its always a trade off for using defensive skill to achieve offensive objective. As long as the outcome is balance enough, its fine. Just like you can either use escape to pursuit your enemy or save it to flee from danger. No matter which one you choose, you're then off from the other for the next 2 min. I see no problem in using vanish as weaponry.

 

But the point is where is the balance at? Is a 2min vanish over-worth 1/3hp and a 3sec stun on 2 enemy? Maybe. But at the moment we do not have much choices to balance it out, that 's why I called it all of nothing. And such model is not healthy or sustain at all. (From the perspective of who didn't really experience our class a lot at least). That's why I'm calling for adding more utility in compensate. Right now the nerf is just like taking away our only upper hand and neglect the inferior.

 

Cover is just my suggestion of one way to grant us the utility. I just think its a pity to abandon such an interesting mechanism. For instance in huttball map. Imagine you are in a situation that you're knocked down to floor 1 platform and the ballfight is on floor 2. As a concealment operative, you don't have the ability to charge back to floor 2, or pull your enemies to floor 1. What I'll do is taking cover and start smashing my snipe(or charged blast on rep side) button. I know the cover mechanism is kind of buggy now, but with well fine tunes, its a good entrance for devs to start investigation of the utility problem of OP.

It allow the possibility of some unique from other class utility buttons, at the same time, utilizing and completing the "role" playing of the IA/smuggler class. (An agent with a rifle just for decoration? Seriously lol？)

[Coldin]

I would take these nerfs as they stand....if they gave us a boost to Sucker Punch in return. They could even alter the talents to apply the boosts. Personally, against healing and tank classes, I'd love some better sustained DPS.

[Chaotika]

I would take these nerfs as they stand....if they gave us a boost to Sucker Punch in return. They could even alter the talents to apply the boosts. Personally, against healing and tank classes, I'd love some better sustained DPS.

 

agreed, it's going to become glaringly obvious after the patch that after our opener and back blast the scary part is done. At the very least we'll have more of a longer run of cc we can use to try and drag the fight to multiple backstabs which really will be the crux of our damage.

 

My concern is this massive gap in time that we now have to fight toe to toe is going to allow us to be focused down brutally in 1-4 seconds by any sort of team play. Vanish is a good cooldown don't get me wrong, but a 2 minute cooldown is a very long time in pvp ._.

[ShadowsWarrior]

I would take these nerfs as they stand....if they gave us a boost to Sucker Punch in return. They could even alter the talents to apply the boosts. Personally, against healing and tank classes, I'd love some better sustained DPS.

 

If they would give in return of this huge take away i wouldnt mind either but no they are just killing our class and not thinking twice about it but turning a blind eye to the real OP class...Sorcs/sages...look at every WZ you do and look whos in the top 3 with over 300k damage and over 100k healing. Thats the class that needs it not ours. We are completely useless outside of stealth and just a free kill waiting for anyone strolling by. They need to do some serious thinking cause im gonna try out the dps tomorrow after the patch and if its insanely low like my biggest crit is 1k, ill totally unsub in a heartbeat. Really just barely over a month and already becoming Aion and warhammer? i had high hopes for BW but now none....

[Coldin]

If they would give in return of this huge take away i wouldnt mind either but no they are just killing our class and not thinking twice about it but turning a blind eye to the real OP class...Sorcs/sages...look at every WZ you do and look whos in the top 3 with over 300k damage and over 100k healing. Thats the class that needs it not ours. We are completely useless outside of stealth and just a free kill waiting for anyone strolling by. They need to do some serious thinking cause im gonna try out the dps tomorrow after the patch and if its insanely low like my biggest crit is 1k, ill totally unsub in a heartbeat. Really just barely over a month and already becoming Aion and warhammer? i had high hopes for BW but now none....

 

Sage/Sorc healing is pretty crazy.

 

If I'm up against a really good sorc, I'll burst them down to about 50% (using relic and adrenal). And then they'll either stun me and heal. Root me and heal. Or toss a bubble on themselves and heal. Either way, unless I kill them quickly after the opener, the battle goes poorly for me. There's just no way to damage through all that healing.

[Pinworm]

Add a new ability that is a from-stealth stun, remove the stun from Hidden Strike.

 

5%-10% less damage on backstab and shiv, 5% increase in damage on every other ability.

 

Alternatively, something needs to be done to lower how well Operatives scale with gear.

 

Tanks in tier 3 shouldn't be dying in 3 attacks in the initial stun of hidden strike.

[ShadowsWarrior]

Add a new ability that is a from-stealth stun, remove the stun from Hidden Strike.

 

5%-10% less damage on backstab and shiv, 5% increase in damage on every other ability.

 

Alternatively, something needs to be done to lower how well Operatives scale with gear.

 

Tanks in tier 3 shouldn't be dying in 3 attacks in the initial stun of hidden strike.

 

Im so sick and tired of people saying we kill in 3 attacks. WE DO NOT!!! that mightve been before 1.1 but now its not. People saying that right there is the reason this nerf is destroying this class. thanks to people like you. stupid

[Chaotika]

Add a new ability that is a from-stealth stun, remove the stun from Hidden Strike.

 

5%-10% less damage on backstab and shiv, 5% increase in damage on every other ability.

 

Alternatively, something needs to be done to lower how well Operatives scale with gear.

 

Tanks in tier 3 shouldn't be dying in 3 attacks in the initial stun of hidden strike.

 

the problem with this is backstab and shiv are our "every other abilities"

[JagTanna]

I'm not really pro or con nerfing the way it stands. I've never played one, so instead I'll offer my experience.

 

From the perspective of a Sniper, I'm usually at the *** end of an Operative shakedown (in Huttball for example), it's not necessarily the damage that bothers me. Snipers have plenty of buffs when in cover like Entrench that allow us to not be interrupted, etc. Its the quickness with which the Operative damage occurs. NOT to be confused with DPS, because the cooldowns on single target DPS are fine. Being knocked down, and even with Escape available, by the time I'm to my feet I'm at half-health. Factor in the fact that even if I can get back into cover and get them below my health level before they kill me, they can simply and cowardly run away in combat stealth and heal up in a safe place...

 

In combat stealth I get and I don't have a complaint about it. The ability to heal, I get and don't have a complaint about. It's that the whole class of operatives seems to be mostly cowardess in PVP. They have the ability to change their mind after they've decided to unstealth and attack someone, then run away and heal up quicker than I can...

 

Everyone else has to commit to a course of action and stick with it. Being able to just change your mind, combat stealth, run away, heal up, lather, rinse, repeat is what I don't like. If I get owned straight up, I can take that. It's part of the game. But for the sake of balance I would suggest the speed with which Operatives can dish out the damage should be drastically reduced.

 

• In combat stealth should have a cast time and be interruptable.
  
• If you have the ability to stealth up and run away, you should be more prone to things like knockback and stun. (Note: not limited to operatives here). If you don't want to change the way abilities currently work, at least make it so that when you go into combat stealth you're completely prone to all knockback/stuns and those timers reset the moment you pop the ability.
  
• Damage should be distributed evenly - doing 6+k damage in 2 seconds then taking 20 - 30 seconds to do what other can only hope to DPS at isn't balance.
  
• And/Or make one of our (non-operative) skills detect stealth better.
  

 

You asked so I told you. Discuss.

[Chaotika]

• In combat stealth should have a cast time and be interruptable.
  
• If you have the ability to stealth up and run away, you should be more prone to things like knockback and stun. (Note: not limited to operatives here). If you don't want to change the way abilities currently work, at least make it so that when you go into combat stealth you're completely prone to all knockback/stuns and those timers reset the moment you pop the ability.
  
• Damage should be distributed evenly - doing 6+k damage in 2 seconds then taking 20 - 30 seconds to do what other can only hope to DPS at isn't balance.
  
• And/Or make one of our (non-operative) skills detect stealth better.
  

 

You asked so I told you. Discuss.

 

I think the first one would only add to the problem of cowardly play and making the typical op feel like their best bet is to just keep using hidden strike.

 

You said you haven't played an op but if you had you would know that point 2 is already pretty nasty for us. You have bh/trooper that can drop high range detection grids and random aoe lightning circles already everywhere. Honestly i get knocked out of stealth alot, i'm not so dedicated that my soul purpose in life is to be paying attention to absolutely every detail around me. This would be a massive nerf to the lifestyle of the class, as your making the only class without a gap closer go farther away from the target.

 

Firstly the third statement isn't true, the culprit is the opener followed by back stab, as for damage past that other classes can and do do better damage. I agree you can take power out of the opener, just put it back on the other stuff. It's already a ***** when i'm out of stealth.

 

Snipers could use some pvp love i agree, but not entirely at the sake of ops, i'd rather see you buffed to be a massive threat when left alone at ranged but still be able to be pressured by melee. Stealth counter your class far harder than sorcs, but i think your survivability buttons need to be upped not our stealth reliability downed.

[JagTanna]

Snipers could use some pvp love i agree, but not entirely at the sake of ops, i'd rather see you buffed to be a massive threat when left alone at ranged but still be able to be pressured by melee. Stealth counter your class far harder than sorcs, but i think your survivability buttons need to be upped not our stealth reliability downed.

 

Very intelligent response, thank you. You make some great points, none which I can really debate.

[Super-Nova]

First, if shoot fire will have a 1.5 sec stun, it should now be on the skill itself (like the shadow version) also i'd like it now not to fill the resolve bar.

 

second, change how your shotgun works and make it your primary weapon to make up for the lack of a 2nd weapon when specing shared tree / scrapper (as it stands sniper rifle does way more damage then 1 pistol)

 

third, give us a 20% finishing skill like all other melee classes.

 

fourth, change upper hand proc to something better then it is now. Give us more options then 2 viable skills to use in combat when not back shooting (or drop quick shot's cost by 1/2 and give it a nice buff thru talents)

 

fifth, for all classes, remove the PvE crap skills you can't even use on bosses and make them usable on all targets.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Super-Nova

[Gomfedj]

First, if shoot fire will have a 1.5 sec stun, it should now be on the skill itself (like the shadow version) also i'd like it now not to fill the resolve bar.

 

second, change how your shotgun works and make it your primary weapon to make up for the lack of a 2nd weapon when specing shared tree / scrapper (as it stands sniper rifle does way more damage then 1 pistol)

 

third, give us a 20% finishing skill like all other melee classes.

 

fourth, change upper hand proc to something better then it is now. Give us more options then 2 viable skills to use in combat when not back shooting (or drop quick shot's cost by 1/2 and give it a nice buff thru talents)

 

fifth, for all classes, remove the PvE crap skills you can't even use on bosses and make them usable on all targets.

 

*on a side note, and POOF theard gets random mod move after being in forum for HOURS! quick move it to a dead forum so people don't notice!* *smirk!*

 

yeah i think EVERY class has a PvE skill that only works on elites and below that one is totaly a joke/useless in pvp (and as pointed out on bosses of any kind).. Yeah the scoundrel shared tree is kinda a "***" all these skills 'fires both blasters if duel wielding' oh that would be nice, but i only have one blaster so you mean that skill is cut in HALF oh thats good NOT!

 

some items on the tree a good though, like the DOT stuff that works GREAT in defense of turrets/doors, in open world pvp though, it is "useful" for one thing really, preventing vanish from working dot em and they vanish and reappear a few seconds later (yeah takes you a few to reorient to em but still you don't lose em 100%

 

on a side note! looks like biowares idea for op/scound nerfs are going forward 100% untested pretty much, i personally am canceling my subscription and sending a note as to why, and hope they fix it before my 28 or so days run out they got 1 paid month outta me though but these "knee jerk" patches and cluster F's like ilum's empire pvp farm fiesta! (and the lack of a roll back!) are gonna be the death of this game

[Pinworm]

Im so sick and tired of people saying we kill in 3 attacks. WE DO NOT!!! that mightve been before 1.1 but now its not. People saying that right there is the reason this nerf is destroying this class. thanks to people like you. stupid

 

They do when geared.

 

I play with Operatives. My friends think it's hilarious and are constantly laughing at how they kill people in 3 hits before the stun wears out. I've seen it happened, and it's happened to me. My friend is a tier 3 geared tank, and he dies in the initial stun. It's completely broken and if you disagree you're simply ignorant and ignoring the facts.

[Optimism]

They do when geared.

 

I play with Operatives. My friends think it's hilarious and are constantly laughing at how they kill people in 3 hits before the stun wears out. I've seen it happened, and it's happened to me. My friend is a tier 3 geared tank, and he dies in the initial stun. It's completely broken and if you disagree you're simply ignorant and ignoring the facts.

 

Tell your tank to wear expertise gear. It'll help alot more than the PvE gear. In fact, tell your friend to wear that tank gear because he's clearly wearing quest greens to being 3 shot as a tank. Any Assassin/Juggernaut/Powertech with 18+k ain't getting 3 shot. In fact, anyone 18k or over aren't getting 3 shot unless we're playing in different patch version. If your friend has T3 gear, then he should have no problem breaking 20k.

 

Even a geared battlemaster operative won't be able to pull that off in 1.1.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Optimism

[GeoLager]

Asking a bunch of people who have no experience playing that class to balance it is like asking a dog to do algebra.

 

 

 

Hidden strike damage was overpowered.

 

The knockdown was fine at 3 seconds.

 

Out of stealth combat is actually underpowered. In fact out of stealth combat could use a couple of buffs not a blanket armor penetration nerf.

 

 

 

Shiv and overload shot need to cost less energy, overload shot in particular. I mean what rationale is used making overload shot cost the most energy when its a rotation filler and does the least amount of damage among the main attacks?

 

Tactical advantage stacks need to tick down individually (i.e. if you have 2 tactical advantages and time runs out on 1 you shouldn't lose both).

 

Acid blade should be a constant buff rather than having to refresh it every time you backstab.

 

 

 

 

These changes alone would probably bring concealment more into balance.

Edited January 24, 2012 by GeoLager