Kiting Help

[Sabbathius]

OK, so recently I've been PvPing a bit more on my PT after a while spent leveling alts, and I'm finding it very hard to kite people now, as more and more start to figure out how to play their class.

 

One example is a Marauder. They jump on top of me and apply a 12 second 50% snare as they land. From there on, I have virtually zero chance to shake him. And without Static Shield up, also zero chance to survive the kind of damage he can deal. Depending on spec he will have high bleeds (Anni), uninterruptible Ravage that also roots and 100% armor penetration (Carnage) or two charges and huge smash damage (Rage). He has no attacks I can interrupt, and in a clutch he can pop a 2min CD to instantly generate 30 fury and use that on Predation, increasing movement speed 50-80% for 10 seconds. In which time he'll likely build another fury stack, and just use Predation again.

 

In other words, when a semi-competent Marauder gets on top of my PT, unless I get help, I die. There's nothing I can interrupt, and his damage is higher than mine, and armor doesn't seem to matter much vs bleeds/100% armor debuff/force attacks that are guaranteed crit (smash).

 

It's somewhat similar with Juggernaut, except now they chain their CC, making kiting rather difficult too. Post-patch it's charge->knockdown->charge->choke with damage in between. Depending on spec they have a stun, a stun on charge, non-channeled choke, etc. Not to mention an AoE slow that they can spam free with just 7 points into Immortal tree - no cost, no CD.

 

Assassins so far have been easiest for me, but even they are becoming a problem. Post-patch I've had quite a few use Darkness (tank) spec with Wither (15 sec AoE 30% slow, 7.5 sec CD), coupled with Spike (2 sec KD, 20-30 sec CD, denerates almost no resolve), Force Slow and Force Speed and pull, there's no shaking them. And obviously they also have all the other goodies (ranged stun, knockback, possibly instant Whirlwind if hybrid).

 

Bottom line, coming back to Powertech and facing decent opponents I suddenly get a naked-on-stage feeling. Besides the stun on 1 min CD, I have nothing. Our 50% slow is usually matched by theirs - stalemate. But most of them have some kind of gap-closer, and we have no speed boost. So far I've been using Jet Jump to quickly escape, but again, Rage spec (or hybrid) Maras and Juggs simply use Impale charge to get right back to me.

 

Am I missing something here? I used to love my PT in PvP (my highest rated char), but after yesterday I'm really unimpressed with him. And I'm sub-50 in 10-49 WZs by the way, so gear isn't really much of a factor.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Sabbathius

[Fashooba]

I am sub 50 as well.. and honestly if I can't kite, I don't worry about it. Ill stand toe to toe with anyone .. generally can take them down almost as fast as they hurt me. When I'm low, pop the hot, my 6k medpack (yay biochem) and my shield. Then they usually run..

[DredlyLB]

the amount of CC and slows is insane and I have pretty much the same experience you do, if the opp I'm facing hits me with a solid CC or a long slow I'm pretty much done. if I can't stay in close I'm going to have issues.

 

I definitely cannot go toe to toe with many classes. Armor is nice to have but when all the abilities bypass it then there isn't much of a use to having it. Healers are the absolute worst. I can't out damage their healing abilities and will end up overheating before they run out of heals

[PianoTie]

A tip facing Marauders: When he has a shield up that makes u take dmg(cant recall the name of it) stop hit him for 6 sec or else he will have that shield up for 30 sec. normaly I use carbonize and get some distanse advantage.

 

Assassins on the other hand.... No idea since thay can crit my tank PT for over 9K, have good sustained dmg and better defensive spells. I normaly just avoid them.

[Fashooba]

Healers are the absolute worst. I can't out damage their healing abilities and will end up overheating before they run out of heals

 

Oh yeah screw healers. I put TD on them almong with an IM and a flame burst to proc CGC then run to the next target. It wont kill em but it will keep them occupied for aa little bit healing themselves instead of their team.

[Sabbathius]

See, I too just assumed I can just stand toe to toe with people if I can't kite. You know, heavy armor, shielding, rawr and all that. But considering the kinds of debuffs and defensive CDs other guys have? Just doesn't seem to work.

 

Yeah, making Marauder's Cloak of Pain fall off is nice, I usually try to use the stun for that, Carbonize is way too short (what is it, 2.5 sec? laughable), but the problem I have with Maras is their defensive CDs.

 

Without Cloak of Pain (hits you back and reduces damage 20%, lasts up to 30 seconds as long as he gets hit at least once every 6 seconds), he still has Force Camo (which he can use to interrupt Unload for example) and when push comes to shove, Undying Rage for 5 seconds of virtually complete invulnerability. There's also Obfuscate, reduces accuracy 90%, though I believe it doesn't affect our Tech, only weapon shots. And all warriors have Saber Ward too. What is Static Shield compared to that? Peanuts.

 

It's same story with Jugger. Saber Ward, Endure Pain, Invincible (if they spec for it). Plus the CC - knockback/knockdown, force choke (non-channeled if Immortal), stun (again if Immortal), etc., etc. Our defenses don't measure up, and our offense is comparable.

 

Sins? Actually I have easier time with Sins for some reason. They still hurt though, high level ones with out-of-stealth Spike knockdown and pull and sprint and slow and the rest are annoying beyond words. And again, Force Cloak - 3-5 seconds of 100% tech invulnerability. Deflection as 2 min CD. Etc. They have more defenses than we do, at least cooldown-wise.

 

I'm ignoring Ops since they're getting a big fat nerf next patch.

 

The more I think about it, the more I realize I can't really stand toe to toe with many other classes. Their defense is usually superior, and offense is at least comparable. Depends on spec, of course.

 

Seems to me the PT is missing a defensive CD or ability. Or maybe one more CC - a knockdown like Spike or Force Push might be nice.

[Vauleen]

For Pyro build this is how I handle healers:

 

Best way to deal with healers is start all your damage ticking on them.

 

Eg,

 

IM > TD > FB

 

At this point you may have already used railshot as well. Then you must stun them with either electro dart or carbonize.

 

Start the RP/FB spam with Railshots and interrupt their heal when needed. This should normally allow you to take them down.

 

Either way you can also pump your crit and damage to help out as well. Good healers are hard to take down. But they are not impossible.

[dardack]

Are we only talking sub 50?

 

The only healers I have issues with at 50 and the Parakeet hybrid build is sages, and I think that's due to the fact they are getting double heals (being fix in 1.2 i think). Pop EF, TSO, Trinket, Surge Adrenal, IM/RS/Jet C/RP, then int heal, then CC (always int first so CD is going), if RS didn't proc, flame t, int heal, carbonize, usually dead by now.

 

That's 1v1 obviously, even if they have a tad bit of heal healing, yea I can't out DPS that as hybrid, pyro can tho.

 

I can go 1v1 vs any class as long as my CD's are up, even if theirs are up. My only prob, is going against smug, we both low, they invis, then backstab me or something, that can be close. But their dps is being nerfed, so thinking I'll get them now.

[PianoTie]

Strange that others dont like Smugglers, since I seem to do just fine against them ^^ Yes, u have to popp all CD's, but so does he

[Sabbathius]

How did we go from kiting melee to tips on how to kill healers?

[dardack]

How did we go from kiting melee to tips on how to kill healers?

 

Because why woudl you ever kite melee? Go toe to toe and smoke him.

[Vauleen]

In Pyro Build:

 

Use Flame Burst for CGC. You can keep them perma 50% snared if you use it right. Then if need be use you stun or carbanize.

 

Our clase operates best at the 4-10m range anyway.

[DredlyLB]

Because why woudl you ever kite melee? Go toe to toe and smoke him.

 

what build are you using that you can stand toe to toe with a melee and win reliably?

[Tumultus]

OP, what is your build for PT? I don't know about anyone else, but most of my abilities are face to face, RP, FB, FS and others. You should want them hugging you, since you should be punching them more than shooting them.

 

If you really want to kite, I think Ion Can with the 50% slow specced is your best bet. Shouldn't be too hard to control the fight and frustrate the marauder.

[DredlyLB]

OP, what is your build for PT? I don't know about anyone else, but most of my abilities are face to face, RP, FB, FS and others. You should want them hugging you, since you should be punching them more than shooting them.

 

If you really want to kite, I think Ion Can with the 50% slow specced is your best bet. Shouldn't be too hard to control the fight and frustrate the marauder.

 

Only one of your abilities is melee (rocket-punch), possibly blade if you went up the AP tree.

 

The rest are designed to be mid range (4 - 10 m+). this range will keep you out of striking distance of the melee classes and keep them from beating the snot out of us while they try catching us. Also breaks line of sight for longer casting targeted abilities if you can go behind them.

[toastmuffin]

Because why woudl you ever kite melee? Go toe to toe and smoke him.

 

unfortunately, both AP and Pyro(RNG luck) cant stand toe to toe with an equally geared melee dps class. ST is a different story altogether.

[Sabbathius]

I was Pyro, then went Carolina Parakeet (which I quite like, charge is lovely).

 

My problem is, I can't stand toe to toe with equally geared, equal level pure DPS classes. I have fewer defenses, and in most cases fewer CC than they do.

 

As I explained, standing toe to toe with Anni Marauder that stacks massive bleeds on you, or Carnage Mara with his 100% armor reduction is suicide. And I can't shake them, because they have far more mobility than I do. Jugger, same thing, many defenses, comparable damage, more CC.

 

Unless I outgear them, or many of their abilities are on cooldown, I just can't stand toe to toe with them.

 

I have to add - it's not a catastrophic problem. It's not like they drop me and walk off with 50% health. No, it's usually a close cut thing. But for the most part, they end up winning if they have their cooldowns up.

 

Oh, and going behind them never works, due to autofacing in PvP. A buddy of mine actually increased his ability queue threshold up to 1 second, and whenever someone circle-strafes him the autoface just completely negates that - it keeps tracking the strafing person. He's Merc, by the way. He just stands his ground and craps rockets.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Sabbathius

[DredlyLB]

yeah your experience mirrors mine. The amount of CC and slows that some of these classes have is just amazing.

 

I've started getting that magical stun dart a lot lately, I think it comes from smugglers and ops?, that and the sound stun last forever

 

but we do have grappling hook , sadly I've had a ton of issues with it not working lately

[Jestunhi]

Keep in mind we can use Jet Charge as an escape quite often, not just as an opener.

 

Other than that, augment your abilities with items.

 

I have not only the 15% heal over 10 secs & the base 25% damage reduction shield but a 1300 armour adrenal, a Rakata Medpack (recently upgraded from a lvl 40 reusable medpack), pvp heals anda relic with +300 defense on the defensive side and as well as +15% crit rate I have +300 power from my other relic. As well as that I'm surrently using reusable lvl 40 stims (aim or end) while I work to get the Alloy to build my Rakata ones (same with adrenals, I will have an offensive & defensive one to use as appropriate).

 

 

Carbonise is wonderful too, especially when used while being chased across huttball flamepits.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Jestunhi

[Sabbathius]

Keep in mind we can use Jet Charge as an escape quite often, not just as an opener.

 

Yah, I've been doing that. Though since you can only charge an enemy, it doesn't often make your situation better. And many enemies I am fighting have either charge (Mara, Jugg) or pull (Sins), it doesn't really solve anything. They will follow me or pull me back where they want me. So in most cases it only makes it worse.

 

Other than that, augment your abilities with items.

 

Doesn't work - the other guy can do the exact same thing. Stalemate.

 

Carbonise is wonderful too, especially when used while being chased across huttball flamepits.

 

Yah, but really so does any other similar CC. Maras and Juggs have an AoE incapacitate with more than twice the duration, on cooldown 15 seconds longer. Ops and Snipers have AoE blind with more than three times duration, again with cooldown just 15 sec longer. The rest have knockbacks, which in Huttball and Voidstar are arguably even more useful.

 

Seriously, ever since I stopped and took a cold hard look at my Powertech, all I'm seeing is weaknesses all over the place. Class is definitely missing something. It needs either a second defensive CD, like other tanks have, or more CC, or a mobility boost.

 

By the way, someone recommended Prototype spec because of Hydraulic Override - 8 second immunity to movement and physics effects and 30% speed boost. I wonder if it stacks with Pneumatic Boots? This might solve my problem, with a mere 30 sec CD.

 

But from what I hear, Prototype isn't very good?

Edited January 23, 2012 by Sabbathius

[dardack]

what build are you using that you can stand toe to toe with a melee and win reliably?

 

if we're just talking about 1v1, Parakeet in full Elim gear.

[Sabbathius]

OK, some food for thought here, thanks folks.

 

One thing I'm thinking right now is that I should just keep on leveling. Some classes and some builds don't really come into their own at the same level. It's possible the classes I'm struggling with just bloomed a little earlier with their respective builds. I mean, on my Merc I felt complete and happy by 32, while my Operative was shaky until 36.

 

I'll just keep at it. I do enjoy the class. I just hope when the Merc nerf comes, it just whacks them and we don't get caught with a backswing.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Sabbathius

[dardack]

OK, some food for thought here, thanks folks.

 

One thing I'm thinking right now is that I should just keep on leveling. Some classes and some builds don't really come into their own at the same level. It's possible the classes I'm struggling with just bloomed a little earlier with their respective builds. I mean, on my Merc I felt complete and happy by 32, while my Operative was shaky until 36.

 

I'll just keep at it. I do enjoy the class. I just hope when the Merc nerf comes, it just whacks them and we don't get caught with a backswing.

 

Oh well yea, Parakeet isn't viable until 48. I'd either go full pyro or full ST. Depends on what you want to do.

[DredlyLB]

.

 

Seriously, ever since I stopped and took a cold hard look at my Powertech, all I'm seeing is weaknesses all over the place. Class is definitely missing something. It needs either a second defensive CD, like other tanks have, or more CC, or a mobility boost.

 

By the way, someone recommended Prototype spec because of Hydraulic Override - 8 second immunity to movement and physics effects and 30% speed boost. I wonder if it stacks with Pneumatic Boots? This might solve my problem, with a mere 30 sec CD.

 

But from what I hear, Prototype isn't very good?

 

I think its the shield mechanic that is broken to be honest. It seems like they built it and went this will be great for tank/defense! then they forgot that almost every attack bypasses it and then they went combine that with heavy armor and these guys will be like juggernauts but with fire instead of force!

 

then they made abilities that negate and bypass our armor completely.

 

and then they tweaked damage and dropped BH down

[Fashooba]

Speaking from my limited experience here .. only lvl 45 rank 20 something valor .. I have not had any problems in pvp for any build. They have their own roles and you gotta know how to use them without getting discouraged when you can't do everything. As Pyro, I can nuke down many classes.. but if 2 people are on me that's it. I know my build isn't designed for that.

 

Every class subforum keeps pointing out the shortcomings of their own class while trying to say everyone else is a God. I find myself in the winning situation more often than not.. and my only complaint is I feel AP is messy... but some people can pull it off. All power to ya.