To all who claim we 7k+ Crit (Jarring Strike Nerf OK IMHO)

[pelijr]

OK this is getting SO OLD now.

 

What's that? By the way, You're on my server. Look me up ingame if you wanna see the proof first hand. My name is Sneakers

[Lushbits]

I have no problem with nerfing the 3s knockdown on Jarring strike, I do find it a -bit- unfair that my target can't touch me for 3 seconds as I pound them with 8k damage in my opening moves. I DO have a problem with the people who are claiming we can crit 7k+ in a single move. THAT is an outright lie.

 

So I've grown rather tired of hearing that people that are SOOO happy about this nerf try to claim that it's justified. I just wanna show you all a video of my Level 50 403 Expertise Concealment Operative attacking a NAKED juggernaut. I know I know, it's a tank, but he's naked for god sakes, and this is just to prove the point that the Max Crits that people are claiming we can do are PRE 1.1, and PRE Buff-stacking fix.

 

Enjoy:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRtEeMg2YJ4&feature=youtu.be

 

 

I don't know about you but I'll be off leveling my alt until this patch comes out. Hopefully some changes are made to buff our sustained/utility, but I doubt it.

 

Can't wait till I can drop a 3.5k Crit on a Naked person instead.....

 

Currently uploading video of same fight vs same jugg, but in his slightly higher than me exp gear (450). Will post to this thread with update.

 

Might as well roll something CANON as it seems to be the only classes Bioware cares about. Screw the 5% that play Operative/Scoundrel.

 

Editted to include further video with gear on:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1su-tMdKJE&feature=youtu.be

 

Good job! I approve/QFT/+1 and all that

[Igraat]

Any idea when this patch goes live so I can cancel?

 

I've heard references to WoW's management of nerfing and buffing classes during this announcement of the Operative Concealment nerf and I didn't sign up to this game to play WoW.

 

If I wanted to play Wow, I'd go....play WoW.

 

 

I've never played WoW. And I never will.

 

If they wanted people to play a smuggler or an agent, why the h.e.l.l. would they create it, make it less viable as a healer than a Sorc, make one tree so weak its unplayable, then nerf the one tree that's decent?

 

OH, I forgot, 70% of SWTOR population plays a Sorc/Sage so they have to keep those crying babies happy.

[bobmcbo]

plus people claiming we do a ton of damage to them with headshot.

HEADSHOT CAN'T EVEN BE USED ON PLAYERS

[Xontier]

Any idea when this patch goes live so I can cancel?

 

I've heard references to WoW's management of nerfing and buffing classes during this announcement of the Operative Concealment nerf and I didn't sign up to this game to play WoW.

 

If I wanted to play Wow, I'd go....play WoW.

 

 

I've never played WoW. And I never will.

 

If they wanted people to play a smuggler or an agent, why the h.e.l.l. would they create it, make it less viable as a healer than a Sorc, make one tree so weak its unplayable, then nerf the one tree that's decent?

 

OH, I forgot, 70% of SWTOR population plays a Sorc/Sage so they have to keep those crying babies happy.

 

Sorry, but WoW's way of nerfing/buffing is pretty much EVERY MMO's way of nerfing/buffing.

 

Op healers aren't less viable, they're just hell of a lot harder to play correctly.

 

Lethality WOULD be decent, if we had better ways to keep up TA. As it stands now, Shiv is the only way to build TA with Lethality, which really, really sucks.

[bobmcbo]

someone got a screenshot of an assassin with 40 kills 0 deaths.

 

now who's OP?

[pelijr]

plus people claiming we do a ton of damage to them with headshot.

HEADSHOT CAN'T EVEN BE USED ON PLAYERS

 

I don't think they are claiming we do a ton of damage to them with headshot. I believe you just have the abbreviation confused. HS -likely- stands for Hidden Strike (Our opener with the 3s stun) not Headshot.

[Cowflab]

someone got a screenshot of an assassin with 40 kills 0 deaths.

 

now who's OP?

 

Actually, he was probably sniping kbs and using his escape tools, most of which an op has instead of trying to duke it out in the trenches like a tank.

 

Also, seriously?!?!? Now assassins are op? This crying is getting ridiculous. But fret not, with the 1.1.1 changes you'll pretty much be a deception assassin without a gap closer as you guys say.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Cowflab

[pelijr]

Actually, he was probably sniping kbs and using his escape tools, most of which an op has instead of trying to duke it out in the trenches like a tank.

 

Also, seriously?!?!? Now assassins are op? This crying is getting ridiculous. But fret not, with the 1.1.1 changes you'll pretty much be a deception assassin without a gap closer as you guys say.

 

And without sustained DPS you mean.... Oh...and no Knockback...Oh...and they get increased energy regeration when in stealth....Yeah... Post 1.1.1 Assassin > Op for overall DPS, PERIOD.

[GeoLager]

Actually, he was probably sniping kbs and using his escape tools, most of which an op has instead of trying to duke it out in the trenches like a tank.

 

Also, seriously?!?!? Now assassins are op? This crying is getting ridiculous. But fret not, with the 1.1.1 changes you'll pretty much be a deception assassin without a gap closer as you guys say.

 

 

So this was what, a 40 minute warzone?

 

 

Dude, you're a joke.

[Cowflab]

So in other words.

 

"My class is being nerfed (even though it's obviously broken)...

 

*Proceeds to ramble off every other class in the game using anecdotal evidence to provetheir point*

 

... is now OP even though a majority of PvPers would disagree."

 

 

Yeah, this isn't typical of a nerfed class at all.

 

Accept it, and learn to work around not having your crutch. you'll manage.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Cowflab

[Cowflab]

So this was what, a 40 minute warzone?

 

 

Dude, you're a joke.

 

Dude, you make no sense...

[pelijr]

So in other words.

 

"My class is being nerfed een though it's obviously broken...

 

*Proceeds to ramble off every other class in the game using anecdotal evidence to provetheir point*

 

... is now OP even though a majority of PvPers would disagree."

 

 

Yeah, this isn't typical of a nerfed class at all.

 

Accept it, and learn to work around not having your crutch. you'll manage.

 

Again, I didn't say the CLASS was broken, I said the Opener was broken, and ONLY because of the 3s stun. Again, take that away, and you can't tell me that this isn't a balanced class.

 

Lol Cowflab, once you play a concealment spec TO 50, and geared, then perhaps what you say will actually have -some- meaning. Until then, you're going off Forum QQ, posts by BM Operatives that severely outgear their opponents, Buff-stacking, and all the other things that were broken prior to 1.1

 

You and I both know this is an over the top nerf for being less than a week into 1.1 and 50 Brackets. Why you won't admit it is beyond me, I think yah just like the attention personally.

Edited January 22, 2012 by pelijr

[Cowflab]

Lol Cowflab, once you play a concealment spec TO 50, and geared, then perhaps what you say will actually have -some- meaning. Until then, you're going off Forum QQ, posts by BM Operatives that severely outgear their opponents, Buff-stacking, and all the other things that were broken prior to 1.1

 

You and I both know this is an over the top buff for being less than a week into 1.1 and 50 Brackets. Why you won't admit it is beyond me, I think yah just like the attention personally.

 

Actually, I'm just trying to make people realize that 20% reduction in ArP doesn't mean a 20% flat damage reduction, and some of the other overraction about changes that whiners really havent fully looked into. The nerfs are relatively minor when you actually know how to do math, which the overwhelming majority of these crying Ops players seemingly can't do. The stun duration remains to be seen, although I don't think it'll be game breaking when all is said and done(from a PvP aspect)

 

I can see how this would upset a min/maxing raider because every single DPS counts, but most of the QQ is coming from PvPers who haven't actually sat down and did even half assed math on the matter.

 

When the largest PvP hitpoint pools total between 21-22k(very well geared tanks) and your burst potential is 9-13k in the first 6 seconds, and a total potential of 21-23k over a perfectly executed rotation in 12 seconds, what difference is 3-4k going to make when on average player HP pools are 16k?

Edited January 22, 2012 by Cowflab

[Kieran]

If you honestly believe we can do 23k burst damage after the consumable stacking nerf in 1.1, I have a bridge to sell you.

[Cowflab]

If you honestly believe we can do 23k burst damage after the consumable stacking nerf in 1.1, I have a bridge to sell you.

 

LOL... Even if your post 1.1 burst potential is 16-18k and you strip off 3-4k from the proposed nerfs you're still looking at huge burst potential, especially when most players are running around with 16k on average HP pools.

 

PvE players have a legitimate gripe here because total damage output is all that matters.

 

PvP players are overracting because they will no longer have 4-5k overkill damage on a 12 second encounter and may actually have to learn how to use their other abilities.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Cowflab

[zuile]

Well good thing I was planning on switching to Shadow anyway to avoid huttball, by the time I get that to 50 and gear it they'll probably have added a gap closer to operative or removed the damage nerfs. Edited January 22, 2012 by zuile

[pelijr]

If you honestly believe we can do 23k burst damage after the consumable stacking nerf in 1.1, I have a bridge to sell you.

 

Exactly, how you can continue quoting that crap like it's a religion is beyond me...These are NOT post 1.1 numbers....Or the very least...They are not on even playing field... Dude I can't do 13.5k dmg to a NAKED JUGG in 6 seconds (-Maybe- if I buff-stacked). But come on... You can say what you want about the math, but come Tuesday, I'm going to get slaughtered in PVP and you know it. You can't design a class around ONE thing, then take that ONE thing away.... -Every- other class in this game can fill multiple roles with how their specs are setup. They do a good job CCing, they are good AOEs, They have good "Utility" for games like huttball....Ect...every class excels in -something-..... For operatives, this was the Opener... now you run a train through that and nerf THE OPENER by again, -atleast- 35-50% if not more. I don't know what math you're doing, but our power comes from that initial 6s, and NO, it won't amount to 13.5k post 1.1.1 without Gear discrepancy or Buff stacking. In 6 seconds, in a PVP match, as it currently stands, I'm lucky to do 6-8k in 6 seconds, and I mean REALLY -really- lucky. What don't people get that the problem is Exp vs Non-exp and Buff stacking.

 

Again, I will offer you a truce. Take away the stun of Jarring Strike, and you're left with a burst DPS class that CAN burst you, but can't "stunlock" you in the process as people are calling it. To me, this is fair. If you're going to let me stand behind you and keep running my rotation, you are going to die, but I can promise it won't be in 6s like you claim. If you decide that no, getting rid of the knockdown/stun isn't enough, and you still need to tone the damage down on HS a little.....Hell lets call their 20% nerf fair....Then give me a frigging gap closer. But besides that you STILL have no reason to nerf Acid Blade. This is -sustained- DPS, not burst at all.

 

These outrageous DPS amounts that people are claiming are NOT happening for me, -ever- in a PVP match, and I've got 400 Exp, and almost a full set of PVP gear. Sorcs roll me because of shield/kite. BH's roll me because of kiting. Can't touch a truly geared tank. And knockbacks are the -bane- of my existance. And please, don't tell me that LOS will fix my kiting issues. When I have to stand BEHIND someone to do any real DPS....It's a bit hard to LOS them lol, especially as a melee class with no knockback.

[pelijr]

LOL... Even if your post 1.1 burst potential is 16-18k.

 

LOL It's not, again, in 6 seconds, -max- 10k on a lucky day, and that's if they are undergeared and I'm using buff-stacking, more often then not it's more like 6-8k if you're not criting (Which I know, hard to believe, doesn't happen on every hit for an Operative)

[Cowflab]

LOL It's not, again, in 6 seconds, -max- 10k on a lucky day, and that's if they are undergeared and I'm using buff-stacking, more often then not it's more like 6-8k if you're not criting (Which I know, hard to believe, doesn't happen on every hit for an Operative)

 

That's not a 6 second burst. It a total 12 second scenario that IS definitely possible. 10k max with another 6k run off for 6-8 seconds is not some fantasy number. Granted it won't always go off without a hitch, but it is feasible. I know its its hard for you to believe but I'm willing to bet the ops class wasn't designed to be able to blow up any opponent in 12 seconds whenever they please.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Cowflab

[pelijr]

That's not a 6 second burst. It a total 12 second scenario that IS definitely possible. 10k max with another 6k run off for 6-8 seconds is not some fantasy number. Granted it won't always go off without a hitch, but it is feasible.

 

Feasible (as in ideal conditions that seldom happen) is A LOT different than game-breaking. The -only- Overpowered thing about the Op/Sc right now is the knockdown. Anyone who says we have "game-breaking" burst is full of it. Take away the knockdown and we are -perfect- where we sit, hell I'd even let you keep the 20% reduction to HS if it still seemed OP, but trust me...Without that 3s stun, our burst DPS drops -fast-, just like it does any-time we're out of stealth.

 

I still don't get why you can't admit this is over the top. As a player I'd think you'd wanna see the game do well and not turn into "WoW". Yet you come in the Ops forums and try to act like Operatives can tear open a new ******e into anything in 6-12 seconds. This is just PATENTLY false. -Maybe- with gear discrepancy or Buff-stacking...but that's about the only way to reach the numbers you are talking of. I can tell you RIGHT now. 10k in 6 Secs - very unlikely, 13.5k in 6 secs? Unheard of post 1.1 patch in equal gear/ without buff-stacking.

 

Do you want me to spend another 2 hours trying to create a small clip that proves this to you? I can go find -any- class you want, find one with similiar EXP gear and show you a full rotation that lasts 6, then 12s. That damage is -not- there. Period.

[Agroovesak]

That's not a 6 second burst. It a total 12 second scenario that IS definitely possible. 10k max with another 6k run off for 6-8 seconds is not some fantasy number. Granted it won't always go off without a hitch, but it is feasible. I know its its hard for you to believe but I'm willing to bet the ops class wasn't designed to be able to blow up any opponent in 12 seconds whenever they please.

 

If every single class in the game couldn't do this damage and more, you may have a point.

[Cowflab]

Feasible (as in ideal conditions that seldom happen) is A LOT different than game-breaking. The -only- Overpowered thing about the Op/Sc right now is the knockdown. Anyone who says we have "game-breaking" burst is full of it. Take away the knockdown and we are -perfect- where we sit, hell I'd even let you keep the 20% reduction to HS if it still seemed OP, but trust me...Without that 3s stun, our burst DPS drops -fast-, just like it does any-time we're out of stealth.

 

I still don't get why you can't admit this is over the top. As a player I'd think you'd wanna see the game do well and not turn into "WoW". Yet you come in the Ops forums and try to act like Operatives can tear open a new ******e into anything in 6-12 seconds. This is just PATENTLY false. -Maybe- with gear discrepancy or Buff-stacking...but that's about the only way to reach the numbers you are talking of. I can tell you RIGHT now. 10k in 6 Secs - very unlikely, 13.5k in 6 secs? Unheard of post 1.1 patch in equal gear/ without buff-stacking.

 

Do you want me to spend another 2 hours trying to create a small clip that proves this to you? I can go find -any- class you want, find one with similiar EXP gear and show you a full rotation that lasts 6, then 12s. That damage is -not- there. Period.

 

That's pretty much what is happening. The actual damage from these changes isn't game breaking either. It's being grossly over exaggerated by players who are used to having a distinct advantage in every PvP scenario they go into. We are talking a maximum of 4k off of an ideal 12 second scenario.

 

You cannot expect people to not oppose the classes current state by saying its not game breaking as is, when the changes, although steep, aren't game breaking either.

[Crawler]

That's not a 6 second burst. It a total 12 second scenario that IS definitely possible. 10k max with another 6k run off for 6-8 seconds is not some fantasy number. Granted it won't always go off without a hitch, but it is feasible. I know its its hard for you to believe but I'm willing to bet the ops class wasn't designed to be able to blow up any opponent in 12 seconds whenever they please.

 

coz chances to crit 3 out of 3 hits are same as to crit 10 out of 10.

 

obviously op got also flat energy regen and no cooldowns on abilities - thats known fact.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Crawler

[Cowflab]

If every single class in the game couldn't do this damage and more, you may have a point.

 

They can't. I'm sure this is where you'll insert your sorc or merc analogy, but, not every class can.