Saella Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 -Fix Recuperative nanotech, Add an initial healing on it 1k heal than hot, It cost so much we CAN't spam it more than twice without running low on energy... Give it a higher range... 10m is very bad... Should be 4 people but no range cap... or make it tick faster and heal for more... it heal for 400 every tick and always go to random people... -Diagnostic scan... That should be an instant cast like the BH instant free heal... -Kolto infusion ??? Damn.. its not in my bar since im lvl 25... Time to make this skill usefull... It cost way to much energy and 1 tactical adv/upper hand, which is ridicoulous... Give this heal a hot after it landed... or even make it free energy but still cost 1 t.a./u.h, this way we could at least use it.... Kolto infusion is perfect this way... don't touch that... Kolto probe is good that way too.. Give us one more heal... if we got interupted and dont have any t.a. we just jiggle until the Global Cooldown went off... and generally we die before this happen... We should be able to use our barrier on other people not only us... and it should protect for a % of the total amount of heal of the target ... I'm level 50 fully Columi geared and healing aren't balanced at all... The sorcerer (take it as exemple) have way more heal than us... Lets talk about their Group heal... reach every player in the effect, heal initialy for a good amount, and then overtime heal... Ok my recuperative nanotech can go to trash... They can spam their aoe way more than us, and maybe they haven't infinite energy but i never saw a Sorcerer run out of mana... They have way to much habilities to regain it.... Instead of slapping I.a. in the face patch after patch in could be cool, to give them a candy... Iknow that the merc is in the same boat as us... the energy system need to be fixed or bioware need to Lower energy cost.... I do good in PVE but a sorcerer can do it with better than us with both hands in the nose... Do we need to QQ everyday to see a change ? You clearly say the last video i saw : THE PLAYERS ARE HERE TO DECIDE WHAT THEY WANT... THIS IS THEIR GAME..... So give us a break with all the nerfed.. (we are 2 in 2 so far) and start looking at other class or give us something that might help the pills to go through... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sufran Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) The sorcerer (take it as exemple) have way more heal than us... Lets talk about their Group heal... reach every player in the effect, heal initialy for a good amount, and then overtime heal... Ok my recuperative nanotech can go to trash... They can spam their aoe way more than us, and maybe they haven't infinite energy but i never saw a Sorcerer run out of mana... They have way to much habilities to regain it I have no opinion regarding the vast majority of your post and wish you luck gaining fixes if there are quantifiable discrepancies that render your class less effective at healing than others. However, I can speak to the quoted segment and would encourage you to play a Corruption healer or to consult reliable statistical sources prior to formulating opinions on the matter. I would not form opinions on your class as I’ve never played it or sought statistical evidence to compare the two. Anyway: The group heal does not have an initial burst at the start, I appreciate the confusion because the tooltip is inaccurate at present. Having said this, the equivalent Consular ability does have the initial heal. Similarly, it has a 15 second cooldown so it is hardly ‘spammable.’ In addition, the recovery mechanism for Force is Consumption/Noble Sacrifice which removes 15% health for 8% Force whilst also impeding passive Force regeneration by 25% per usage (stacking up to 100%). If talented, Innervate criticals allow a ‘free’ Consumption but Innervate has a nine second CD and criticals are reliant on the appropriate rating or using Innervate immediately after Resurgence. Consequently, regeneration can be temperamental and you can find yourself facing depletion rather rapidly in intensive healing situations (since you simply can’t afford to use Consumption lest somebody die, for instance). I cannot speak as to whether this situation is measurably better or worse than your regenerative abilities but simply wanted to give further details for your consideration; it is entirely possible that yours are still worse. However, I tend to avoid personally complaining or taking the complaints of others seriously because observations as usually affected by confirmation bias or are generally rooted in a resentful ‘grass is greener’ mentality irrespective of empirical evidence. Edited January 21, 2012 by Sufran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denkar Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I agree that it would be nice to have our healing bumped a bit. I would like to see a small heal added to the start of Recup Nano as well but the 10m isn't so bad, but it does depend on the group makeup. Edited January 21, 2012 by Denkar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratoforce Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Sages/Sorcerers have the best healing output, biggest healing toolbox, and the best regen. Smuggler/Operative have second best regen and mediocre heals. Trooper/BH has the worse regen, and mediocre heals. Both Smuggler/OP/Trooper/BH have limited toolboxes when compared to Sage/sorcerer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leojreimroc Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I have no opinion regarding the vast majority of your post and wish you luck gaining fixes if there are quantifiable discrepancies that render your class less effective at healing than others. However, I can speak to the quoted segment and would encourage you to play a Corruption healer or to consult reliable statistical sources prior to formulating opinions on the matter. I would not form opinions on your class as I’ve never played it or sought statistical evidence to compare the two. Anyway: The group heal does not have an initial burst at the start, I appreciate the confusion because the tooltip is inaccurate at present. Having said this, the equivalent Consular ability does have the initial heal. Similarly, it has a 15 second cooldown so it is hardly ‘spammable.’ In addition, the recovery mechanism for Force is Consumption/Noble Sacrifice which removes 15% health for 8% Force whilst also impeding passive Force regeneration by 25% per usage (stacking up to 100%). If talented, Innervate criticals allow a ‘free’ Consumption but Innervate has a nine second CD and criticals are reliant on the appropriate rating or using Innervate immediately after Resurgence. Consequently, regeneration can be temperamental and you can find yourself facing depletion rather rapidly in intensive healing situations (since you simply can’t afford to use Consumption lest somebody die, for instance). I cannot speak as to whether this situation is measurably better or worse than your regenerative abilities but simply wanted to give further details for your consideration; it is entirely possible that yours are still worse. However, I tend to avoid personally complaining or taking the complaints of others seriously because observations as usually affected by confirmation bias or are generally rooted in a resentful ‘grass is greener’ mentality irrespective of empirical evidence. Interesting mechanic. Operatives have the advantage of infinite resources if used wisely. The downside is that we have to stay above a certain threshold (60%?). If we go below that, our regeneration goes down rapidly, and if we're near the bottom of our resources we're basically done healing. Now we do have 1 cooldown that we can use which restores 60% of our resources over 3 minutes, no penalty, just a straight recoup. The downside is that we don't take well to big burst damage. If we have to burst heal, our regeneration is done for that fight. If it only happens once, no problem, we have our cooldown is there, twice, we're in trouble. So the problem with balancing agents is to juggle these 2 aspects. Our aoe hot needs some sort of buff I believe. Right now, I almost never use it. I tend to use it when I'm on the move and I'm not healing a lot, so when I'm moving I'm recouping energy. However, at 30 energy, it's simply too expensive for the healing it provides. It's use means that we have to wait a couple of seconds to regen or we go below our regen threshold. Since this is the case, it should be a bit more powerful. I don't think making it cheaper is the solution. This might make it too good and might make it a spammable heal. Not a bad thing, but it might need a nerf in power if this was the case. I haven't healed as other classes yet, but the agent's niche is that of a constant healer. We literally can always keep healing. You just need other classes to deal that deal better with big burst to be with you. A few minor buffs to our aoe, and maybe kolto infusion (I'm a little confused as to what the role of this heal is) would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saella Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 ''UP'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinemetu Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Interesting mechanic. Operatives have the advantage of infinite resources if used wisely. The downside is that we have to stay above a certain threshold (60%?). If we go below that, our regeneration goes down rapidly, and if we're near the bottom of our resources we're basically done healing. Now we do have 1 cooldown that we can use which restores 60% of our resources over 3 minutes, no penalty, just a straight recoup. "If used wisely," every class has infinite resources. That's not an advantage at all. In response to the sorc you're quoting: I think you're making things sound a lot worse than they are. I've seen a LOT of sorcs/sages bragging that they pretty much never run out of juice or are even full most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I haven't healed as other classes yet, but the agent's niche is that of a constant healer. We literally can always keep healing. You just need other classes to deal that deal better with big burst to be with you. A few minor buffs to our aoe, and maybe kolto infusion (I'm a little confused as to what the role of this heal is) would be nice. Healing specced sorcs never run out either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drengir Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Gonna second this just because I agree that the IA's and SM's healing trees are weaker. Also, with that said, their resource managemant and way to heal (very pre-emptive, not reactive) makes the specc's harder to master. Which is kinda why I like them. I by far prefer to heal as a Sawbones in PvP because their mobility is awesome, and I can slip away from focused fire rather easy, and as long as I keep up my hots I get ta/uh and can by that keep people up with my emergency medpack. Worth saying to people wanting to roll a sm/ia healer or just thinks they suck; It is a pre-emptive healer, it is a fully procc reliable healer, and it's a healer that has to be played on the edge. With that I mean that your role isn't to keep people at max HP and just Overheal them, your role is to keep the Right people up with hots and instant heals. Your optimum target is that focused player with >30% hp. Then you can go to town with that emergency medpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delmyr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 What I don't understand is how much healing does emergency medpack do compared to underworld medicine. I don't have EM yet but it seems that we are supposed to use it in conjunction with UWM for only an effective loss of 2.5 energy every 3.5 sec. That being said I'm not accounting for slow release medpack but if damage intake is too high for the above rotation then even sorcs would burn through a good chunk of their own force in the same situation trying to heal through the large intake of damage forcing them to use their highest hps ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinemetu Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 What I don't understand is how much healing does emergency medpack do compared to underworld medicine. I don't have EM yet but it seems that we are supposed to use it in conjunction with UWM for only an effective loss of 2.5 energy every 3.5 sec. That being said I'm not accounting for slow release medpack but if damage intake is too high for the above rotation then even sorcs would burn through a good chunk of their own force in the same situation trying to heal through the large intake of damage forcing them to use their highest hps ability 30% more or so, but yes, you cast them together usually. Not necessarily both on the same target, but chained. You either have to pause or use Diagnostic Scan periodically to remain energy-neutral. You bleed energy faster with more alacrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroudveil Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) the problem imo with operatives/scoundrels is that 2 of their heals are nearly worthless, making them rely on the smallest toolbox of all healers. 1)the aoe hot needs a serious buff in throughput just cause it is so weak. the alternative would have been to allow it to stack up to 2 (this would mean ofc that it would have to have it's cd removed) and to be able to proc UH/TA just like the hot (30%chance/tick, 6sec icd, seperate icd from hot). 2)the second issue is the respective 1.5sec cast time heal of both classes. Prior to the free heal it is out best hps spell (it still is after we get the free hot but the cost is massive and for a tight energy staved class simply prohibiting). my proposal here would be to have the talent that adds 50%/100% chance for the free hot to not consume TA/UH when the target is under 30%hp to give a 5%/10% elemental/internal resistance buff for 10secs to the target (similar to 10%armor buff that the 2 other healers get but different to avoid homigenization of the 3 classes), or a similar buff to the utility of the spell (a small hot, a small shield, etc). another suggestion would be to have it's requirement for UH/TA completly removed but making consuming ALL of your current UH/TA and giving it a 15-20% buff for each of TA/UH consumed. 3)the channeled heal is nearly worhtless too but imo fills it's niche. allowing you to channel it while on the move would be perfect, but not gamebreaking/fixing for me. Edited January 24, 2012 by Shroudveil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobudo Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Since we're throwing out proposals (sorry, I don't know the Smuggler names): Change the 25-point talent Med Shield such that it would allow Shield Probe to be placed on other players. Placing it high in the Medic tree would add a tool to the healers "toolbox" without making the DPS spec-ed ops over-powered (and furthermore make that talent a non-throwaway). Keep the 15% healing buff and the 1 min cooldown - thus making it different but semi-on-par with the Sorcerer's 6 second cooldown, 20 second debuff, high absorption shield - and would give Operatives a little more utility in desperate situations (currently, all we can do is pop out 2-min Adrenaline Probe). Change Kolto Infusion by adding some utility to the skill, thus making it worth the TA+Energy cost. Every Operative healing post discusses the uselessness of Kolto Infusion. Sure, it has a reduced cast time, but its consumption of a Tactical Advantage makes it too much of a burden to use in those situations where it would be useful (when there isn't enough time to cast the 2 second Kolto Injection). The simple fix is to buff the healing, add a HoT, or whatever, but that would be boring and the amount of buff required to make the skill useful would likely make the skill over-powered. Easier still would be to remove the energy cost, adding a bit of complexity to the healer's decision when sacrificing a TA to heal, but still boring and likely to leave it unused. Instead, have it add some sort of utility. Increased defense, armor rating, absorption, etc. Have it buff energy/rage/focus/heat/ammo/whatever by X% for X time. Make it grant a buff so that "for X time, player has an X% chance to regain X health when receiving damage." Or "For 5 seconds player is immune to stun/cc/etc." Seriously, any sort of utility added to the skill would make it worth the TA + Energy cost. Change Kolto Probe to only require 1 cast - instead of two - or give us some way to refresh it easier. This could be fixed as simple as adding a timer to the UI - or allowing addons, but I digress - that could help the healer keep track of the probe on multiple targets. The alternative solution is to have a different skill - Recuperative Nanotech or Kolto Infusion would be good ones - or a talented mechanic - e.g. Kolto Probe Crits refresh the time by X seconds - to make it less tedious. Some changes are required to Operative healing to bring it into balance with Sorcerer/Sage healing - without any changes the end result will be few if any Operative healers. These changes are, in my opinion, the least invasive and easiest changes to make without overpowering the Class or making Operatives the dominant healer. Edited January 24, 2012 by bobudo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinemetu Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Am I the only operative healer who *doesn't* want shield probe to be cast on other players? It just sounds boring and stale, a copycat ability. I'd much rather see a change to, say, Kolto Infusion (the 1.5s cast) to make it heal for more when there are hots on the target or even to consume them for bonus healing. Also, our main HOT heals for a really small amount, especially if you start comparing it to the sorc bubble. Heck, it heals for less than DS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saella Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Wonder if someone will hear our suggestion.... YOUHOO... DEVS we are here (point the ground) Our tree is so Half-way done, they take so much time to make Sorcerer, that they forget to Polish our class... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saella Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Take off the energy cost on Kolto infusion, Leave the t.a. cost, This would be amazing... Seriously... With this we could keep our Energy for real ''emergency'' moment, and we could be equal to the sorcerer in term of healing, Rotation: Kolto injection, kolto infusion (we would never run out of mana) by healing the tank and we could pop our RN, and hot an SP on the other member of the group when boss do aoe dmg... Atm everything is fine except when the hole group start taking dmg, it becaume pretty chaotic... I don't say it's impossible but it make us run out of energy too quickly... That way Sorcerer will still be the master of aoe heal, and we will find our niche in single target healing (so far we are homeless) we dont have speciality, hot aren't healing enough to make them usefull + need to take time to place them twice on people ; in a 16 man ops it take forever, and we run out of energy too quick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morthis Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Here's the things I don't like about op healing atm: Kolto infusion - Effectively useless once SP is unlocked. Kolto Probe - The UI is absolutely terrible for keeping track of stacks on this. I don't mind the double stack, if the UI gets improved so we can actually keep track of this on multiple people. Recuperative Nanotech - A combination of terrible range and low healing just makes this a depressing final skill. Great news guys, we spent 31 points in the medicine tree to get...a situational skill (needing 4 targets who have taken damage within 10 meters) that is unimpressive even in situations that should make it shine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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