No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

[HanzoV]

I've been playing since launch, but I only grouped for the first time last night...when one of my RL friends bought the game.

 

All I can say is play with people you know, whether that be guildies, RL friends, or other people you trust in-game.

 

SAY NO TO PUGS

[Eldren]

...if anyone in that class is with your group.

 

I can't believe I'm posting about item rolls, or about this issue. People worry too much about loot, and I'm a big believer in just enjoying the game.

But poor claims hurt group dynamics, and there's no need for this kind of thing.

 

Today, a Sith Marauder rolled Need to get this

Cademimu Sharpshooter's Jacket

+34 Endurance

+38 Cunning

+18 Critical Rating

 

when I pointed out it was made for an Agent, like me, he said he intended to strip out the mods and trade them.

 

When I noted that the mods are Bound, he insisted that since he could wear it, he could roll. More surprising was that when he brought the issue to /General, a few voices agreed.

 

Most did not, but the others need to know that sort of claim i's a party-breaker. This is clearly an Agent item - a huge upgrade in my case - and my next group will get a little less healing as a result.

 

One of the pleasures of running Flashpoints is the chance to get gear suited to you. If it's better suited to someone else, leave it for them.

 

In general, if an item specifically notes a particular class, I leave it alone unless I'm playing that class. But you have to realize that you don't get exclusivity on any items in the game. No item is yours until you win the roll and it's in your inventory. If they helped down the boss, they have a right equal to yours to stake a claim to that item via whatever priority roll they choose to make. They don't need your permission, they don't require your approval. You can talk about how it'll get them blacklisted on their server or kicked from groups all you like, the end result is the same: they rolled on an item that met a need they perceived they had.

 

Stop worrying about what other people are doing with their characters. So you lost a loot roll. The item will drop again, or you'll find something equivalent (or better) in another Flashpoint.

[Kirska]

personally, I think that anyone kicking up a fuss about not getting what they think that they personally need is clearly being more selfish than any of the people they're ranting about.

 

Your logic is incredibly flawed.

 

Just about every item that drops is specifically designed for a specific class. Suggesting that someone who fits that class and intends to use the item as the designers intended is more selfish than someone rolling on an item intended for a class not their own is absolutely asinine.

[zandadoum]

to mean you will equip it for a stat increase.

which is exactly what i am doing when i roll on a sorcerer item to rip the crit mod out of it to use it on my bounty hunter.

[ferroz]

SAY NO TO PUGS

Pugs aren't the problem

 

The problem is you feeling entitled to the item just because you want to equip it, and then being disappointing that you didn't get it. The people who are really being selfish are the ones that kick up loot drama, not the ones who hit "need" on the item that you wanted.

 

Really, folks should try being honest with themselves about this... masking your own greedy selfishness with "I need X" is the problem.

[Xabana]

No, Eldren. It's not that simple. There is an element of fairness and gamemanship that should be pervasive among all MMOers. Stop pshawing bad behavior based on bad reasons.

[Xabana]

Your logic is incredibly flawed.

 

Just about every item that drops is specifically designed for a specific class. Suggesting that someone who fits that class and intends to use the item as the designers intended is more selfish than someone rolling on an item intended for a class not their own is absolutely asinine.

 

X

 

It's such an inept, illogical argument that one can only assume he crawled out from under a bridge to write it.

[Kirska]

If they helped down the boss, they have a right equal to yours to stake a claim to that item via whatever priority roll they choose to make.

 

It has absolutely nothing to do with "earning" an item or having the "right" to an item. It has to do with common courtesy, treating others as you would like to be treated, etc.

[Loreki]

I'll generally need for mods if I ask, and its evident no one else needs. Otherwise I wouldn't dream of just taking a piece without asking where it wasn't class-appropriate.

[ferroz]

Or how about all the times over the years in every mmo,tanks and healers are in short supply. Moron dps rolling need on the upgrades healers and tanks need to do their job well are partially to blame for this.

I'd say that these "moron dps" are actually less common than the "greedy, self entitled healers and tanks"

 

Healers can't heal effectively without the gear

Tanks cant tank effectively without the gear

DPS cant DPS effectively without the gear

fixed.

[Qilz]

if I am able to press NEED, then i'm allowed to do it

 

 

/thread

 

Good luck finding groups with that mentality.

[Kirska]

Stop worrying about what other people are doing with their characters. So you lost a loot roll. The item will drop again, or you'll find something equivalent (or better) in another Flashpoint.

 

Nowadays I get to play maybe 4 hours a week at best. If I run a flashpoint, I probably won't run another for weeks.

 

Speak for yourself. I won't see that item again for a very long time, if ever.

[Calsetes]

which is exactly what i am doing when i roll on a sorcerer item to rip the crit mod out of it to use it on my bounty hunter.

 

I think if you're after only one mod on a three-mod item, then it's probably best to ask if it's ok to need on it for the Enhancement mod. See what the group says. Takes five seconds minimum, ten seconds max. If it's during a fight, then blame the guy who looted during the fight.

 

Edit: Hell, if someone said they needed that, and I could make it on my main, I'd let them know I can make them one afterwards if it saves the group an argument.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Calsetes

[Eldren]

It has absolutely nothing to do with "earning" an item or having the "right" to an item. It has to do with common courtesy, treating others as you would like to be treated, etc.

 

It's nice to appeal to common courtesy, but you're appealing to an ideal that remains blind to the practical reality. If you're with a group of friends there's almost never loot drama. If you're in a PUG, courtesy flies out the window more often than not in the face of getting loot.

 

Individuals can be courteous, but when there's little incentive to do so at the expense of their goals, and when there's no meaningful consequence for discourteous behavior, people will often choose not to be courteous.

 

It's good for those of us who hold ourselves to a higher standard of courtesy in how we treat others, particularly strangers. We have to remember, however, we aren't absolute authorities: we may be discouraged when someone else doesn't hold themselves to our same standards, but we have no right to hold others to our own standards. We're each sovereign only as far as our own flesh. Past that, we've nothing but a perspective.

[Lady_Alyria]

I don't understand how this wasn't in the game already. All 4 classes use their main stat. They get nothing/close to nothing from dabbling in the other stats and only gimp themselves. This isn't like a traditional MMORPG where all spellcasters like int, and all heavy melee like str, and all light melee like agility. There's just stats that work and 3 stats that don't.

 

Here, let me give you an example of why I'm glad the game expects us to be decent to each other and not stuck on stupid. An Aim piece came up but it wasn't as good as what I already had on, so I picked Greed, an agent asked if he could pick it up for his companion then. We all agreed and he picked Need. These things bind on pick up, if he wasn't allowed to pick need, then he might not have gotten it.

 

The same thing goes with gutting the orange for the appearance gear. I don't care if you let everyone know first and no one needs it. What is in bad taste is harming a group member's chance at stats they need so you can look cute.

 

Something similar happened on my server when a shadow rolled on a str/end earpiece with a warrior in the group. They kicked him and he brought it to local. I explained while yes the endurance helped him, the piece helped someone else two fold, so he shouldn't have taken it.

[skorpius]

While it is kind of a dick move, you do have a point that it's Bioware who made the decision for every piece of gear to be needed by everyone else, when in reality they get nothing for it.

 

Not really a dick move man, this is not the 60 and 70's about free love this is the 2012 the end of the world we got holy wars and destruction all around us. We do not respect and care for any other except for ourselves.

[JustTed]

The problem is you feeling entitled to the item just because you want to equip it, and then being disappointing that you didn't get it. The people who are really being selfish are the ones that kick up loot drama, not the ones who hit "need" on the item that you wanted.

 

Uh... "Need" and "Want" are different words.

[ferroz]

Your logic is incredibly flawed.

I stated an opinion; it's clearly marked as such. There's no logic in the piece that you quoted, so there can't be flawed logic involved.

 

 

 

Just about every item that drops is specifically designed for a specific class.

Irrelevant.

 

Suggesting that someone who fits that class and intends to use the item as the designers intended is more selfish than someone rolling on an item intended for a class not their own is absolutely asinine.

No, that's not what I said.

 

I said that the person complaining about not getting loot, regardless of their class, is more selfish than whoever took the loot from them. Specifically, that I find the behavior of "complaining about not getting loot" to be more selfish than anything else in the game. Period.

[Mhorham]

if I am able to press NEED, then i'm allowed to do it

 

 

/thread

 

thats very true.

 

This is where player responsibilities take over from coded game mechanics. This is a mmo so its a social game just as much as a rpg. When grouped with someone displaying that attitude I can have several options on how to respond.

 

I can just roll need on everything in the group if thats how they want to do it.

 

I can apologize to other people and quit the instance

 

I can just run through it for the xp and pick up gear in another round.

 

I can /tell the group leader and see if he will kick a single guy with attitude

 

I can join a good guild where people with morals and values play and avoid pugs whenever possible.

 

 

 

There are always options. I say make use of them and avoid getting upset about other peoples playstyels. You need to group with people who share the same attitude as you do. Its not a right or wrong situation. And BioWare did actually put in 2 systems for this. One is guilds and the other is a friends list.

[HanzoV]

Pugs aren't the problem

 

The problem is you feeling entitled to the item just because you want to equip it, and then being disappointing that you didn't get it. The people who are really being selfish are the ones that kick up loot drama, not the ones who hit "need" on the item that you wanted.

 

Really, folks should try being honest with themselves about this... masking your own greedy selfishness with "I need X" is the problem.

 

It's part of the problem, because there is no accountability with people you don't know.

 

The other part of the problem is lack of communication. If you're going to roll Need on almost everything, then let me know, so I can do the same.

 

Anyways, like I said in the rest of my post that you omitted, I only play with RL friends, because I can trust them.

[ferroz]

Uh... "Need" and "Want" are different words.

yes, and as I've been saying, the actual correct word is "want", not need.

 

You don't need any item in the game. You want them. You say need because you're being selfish and falsely entitled.

 

People say "need" to try and feel like they're being less selfish. In all truth, they aren't being any less selfish, and they should be more honest with themselves.

[JustTed]

Here, let me give you an example of why I'm glad the game expects us to be decent to each other and not stuck on stupid.

 

I stopped reading here. If this is the expectation, then clearly no one at Bioware has ever played an MMO. Ever.

 

Humans--particularly humans who are anonymous and safe because they're on the internet--are selfish jerks. That's why the loot system needs to be restrictive. Saying "we're counting on people not to be jerks" is just plain stupid.

[JustTed]

yes, and as I've been saying, the actual correct word is "want", not need.

 

You're trying to be everything on the same plane. If Jedi robes drop and everyone wants them, then everyone should get to roll.

 

This is stupid and wrong. If you need it explained to you then I'm just going to drink bleach so I don't have to talk to someone so myopic.

[ferroz]

It's part of the problem, because there is no accountability with people you don't know.

No, they're not any part of the problem.

 

The fact that you have a need to feel like you're in control and can hold people accountable is the problem... the lack of being able to hold them accountable is in no way part of the problem.

[EternalFinality]

Needing for mods, like needing for companions, is just selfish.