No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

[Galbatorrix]

The irony of this is astounding. My parents thought me right from wrong and fairness. Yet, here you are telling me it is fair to dictate to others what they should or should not do when it comes time to roll on loot.

 

 

The Irony is trying to use backward logic to justify you getting to not only roll on items for your PC, but items intended for everyone else's as well. You talk "fair" for your side, yet you are being way more greedy than my side. We are just asking you to pass on one type of item. The one that was created for our class. Mean while, you're telling us that you have the right to loot your classes stuff, your companions stuff, appearance stuff..... who's more greedy here? The group that wants to need and win there own personal classes loot only, or the group that wants to need and win potentially everything that drops that run?

[Loendar]

And if it is a even bigger upgrade for my companion, and therefor by extension and upgrade to me when I'm not in a FP. Then doesn't that mean I need it more then them?

 

I mean if your line is, it should go to who ever gets the biggest increase out of it... Then that's fine, but then you have to accept that an upgrade in equipment for my companion is an upgrade for me.

 

If your companion is participating in the Flashpoint with me and is crucial to accomplishing our goals - by all means.

 

If there are four players in the group all doing their part and you are selfishly rolling on gear that will only aid you when not grouped with other players, while taking advantage of those players to do it, then you should go elsewhere.

[ferroz]

They need it more than you

No, they want it and feel entitled to it. Nothing more. There is no need involved. That's just a word you're using to hide your own shame at the childish sense of entitlement you're displaying.

[VanorDM]

It is about being human and treating others with respect.

 

I keep hearing this same thing, yet it's such a meaningless statement and does nothing to help your argument.

 

How does me rolling need on an item that will improve my ability to play the game, disrespectful of other people?

 

What if two people were playing a gunslinger, which one of them is disrespected by the other if they both roll on an item that's an upgrade for them?

[Sousukesama]

This is another of those veiled threats. if you don't so as we say, you'll be outcast. I have yet to see anyone outcast on an MMO for any reason.

 

I'm not sure what part of my post was a threat. It was a statement that how you treat people will reflect on how you are treated in the future. Simple as that.

[Setanian]

The Irony is trying to use backward logic to justify you getting to not only roll on items for your PC, but items intended for everyone else's as well. You talk "fair" for your side, yet you are being way more greedy than my side. We are just asking you to pass on one type of item. The one that was created for our class. Mean while, you're telling us that you have the right to loot your classes stuff, your companions stuff, appearance stuff..... who's more greedy here? The group that wants to need and win there own personal classes loot only, or the group that wants to need and win potentially everything that drops that run?

 

Please, please. Go read this entire thread. No-one anywhere that I saw every said they would need on loot that said <class specific>. That is not to be mistaken with loot that you *feel* should be class specific.

[Galbatorrix]

Conversely, you should try playing your own game and allowing others to play theirs how they see fit. If you weren't so worried about what other people did and didn't do, you might actually enjoy the game more.

 

 

Oh, I love this game. And since people's actions in this game directly effect how well I perform with my character, of course I'm going to worry about it. How do I tank harder instances if I keep losing all of my tank gear to companions or troopers that though they'd look awesome in a Jedi Knight robe? Again, this isn't a hard concept to grasp.

[Loendar]

No, they want it and feel entitled to it. Nothing more. There is no need involved. That's just a word you're using to hide your own shame at the childish sense of entitlement you're displaying.

 

Need is clearly the wrong word in these contexts anyway. As someone mentioned earlier it really comes down to 'want' - because nobody needs the gear.

[Code_Airwolf]

*quietly walks in....*

 

I just have one comment to interject into this conversation that's, might I say, been a very entertaining thread to read from page 1 thru 116 I believe it is now.....

 

There are some people playing, like......I don't know..........maybe myself........*looks for sudden hand movements in the room*......or MAYBE NOT.........I'm just sayin'.......I have this friend.........that, this is only his 2nd MMORPG......his first being CoH that he played since, I think 2004......that quite honestly, when the prompt came up, had no idea what that meant, nor what to do. And being a non-greedy, always willing to give rather than get, and help someone else rather than help themselves (I mean, who ELSE would play a HERO for 7 years+)......clicked "need" because they would never ever pick anything that said "greed" or "greedy". And in doing so, apparently, after finding out, by picking "need", actually picked the greedy selfish option.

 

So there are probably some people out there, that may not even know or understand what they just did.......and could use the edumacation.....so consider that before some of you are kicking/ignoring/hating, that maybe the person just needs a friendly lesson or help understanding what's happening or what just happened.

 

I perused the online game manual and so far can't find anything about it, but might have missed it.....

 

So anyways, that's all I wanted to say.......you know..........for my friend..........that didn't know better.............but now he knows.............because knowing is half the battle......

 

OK I'm done.....

 

*slowly begins to leave, then hauls arse out the door*

Edited January 27, 2012 by Code_Airwolf

[Setanian]

If your companion is participating in the Flashpoint with me and is crucial to accomplishing our goals - by all means.

 

If there are four players in the group all doing their part and you are selfishly rolling on gear that will only aid you when not grouped with other players, while taking advantage of those players to do it, then you should go elsewhere.

 

Where did you get this titbit of information? If there are four players in a group, and they down the boss, they each have an entitlent to roll (how they wish) on the loot. You in some way trying to usurp that entitlement is you taking advantage of gullible players.

[Sousukesama]

I keep hearing this same thing, yet it's such a meaningless statement and does nothing to help your argument.

 

How does me rolling need on an item that will improve my ability to play the game, disrespectful of other people?

 

What if two people were playing a gunslinger, which one of them is disrespected by the other if they both roll on an item that's an upgrade for them?

 

If they are the actual PC in the group. They both roll and the highest wins. This BS that a companion is an extension of your own character is crap. As I said in previous posts, if that's how you feel than use your companion in the group and don't waste the time of someone else that is the same "class" as your companion. Why even group with PCs? Because AI will never be able to take the place of human reaction in situations eh?

[Setanian]

I'm not sure what part of my post was a threat. It was a statement that how you treat people will reflect on how you are treated in the future. Simple as that.

 

If you say so. The real chances of meeting the same players continually are mediocre at best I would think. So the argument has no basis.

[Galbatorrix]

Please, please. Go read this entire thread. No-one anywhere that I saw every said they would need on loot that said <class specific>. That is not to be mistaken with loot that you *feel* should be class specific.

 

 

An item with Cunning is meant for IAs and smugglers. Regardless if it 's only usable by those classes, that it most definitely who those items where created for. And honestly, the only reason you guys aren't needing on class specific gear is because there's no backwards logic to justify it.

[Maccaroth]

I have not seen or signed any such social contact. You may think it exists because it did in WoW, but we're not playing WoW. So any contact you had is null and void until a new one can be established.

Yes. Yes, you didn't see nor sign it. That's why I keep saying it's unseen and unwritten. You aren't forced to oblige it. But you must keep in mind that there might be the other people who will alienate you for not following it and there's a reason for it.

 

If I joined a party that had not discussed it ahead of time, why should I assume they are going to do it one way or the other? Just because they did it that way in a different game, one with a different type of loot system?

Well, it's you versus people who disagree with you then. Why should you assume? You shouldn't. Never anticipate that the other people are as intelligent or thoughtful as you are. Play it safe for your own good. But many people seem to think that there are certain "no brainers" or "everybody knows that" sort of things and they don't expect or think that the others might openly break social tabu. It's no different here.

 

I am sure that we two would come to some kind of an agreement if you'd start conversation about loot rules.

[ferroz]

You talk "fair" for your side, yet you are being way more greedy than my side.

False.

 

We are just asking you to pass on one type of item.

you're not asking. You're demanding that I pass on items and give your priorities precedence over mine. That's absurd.

 

who's more greedy here?

The person insisting that other people should not be permitted to roll on the items that they want is BY FAR the more greedy individual.

 

The group that wants to need and win there own personal classes loot only, or the group that wants to need and win potentially everything that drops that run?

False Dichotomy.

 

The actual groups are

1. the group that wants to roll need and win the things that they want, and want other people to not be eligible for those items.
   
2. the group that wants to roll need and win the things that they want, and are fine if other people choose to roll against them.
   

 

Those are the two groups of people. By far, the more greedy is your group, group #1.

Edited January 27, 2012 by ferroz

[VanorDM]

rolling on gear that will only aid you when not grouped with other players

 

If we follow this logic, that means I can only roll need on equipment that I will use when grouped with those same 4 people...

 

If I roll need on something and then go to play with a different group of people, aren't I taking advantage of the people who helped me get that item? What if I'm only playing with one other person and we both are using companions?

 

If I win an item and equip it on my character, doesn't it help me regardless of if I'm with other people or not?

[Loendar]

Where did you get this titbit of information? If there are four players in a group, and they down the boss, they each have an entitlent to roll (how they wish) on the loot. You in some way trying to usurp that entitlement is you taking advantage of gullible players.

 

Because your companion didn't help accomplish the task one iota. And unless it is being used in the group it never will help.

 

So taking loot from an active participant to make your solo game better is the epitome of need and entitlement.

 

You couldn't accomplish the goal without them (but they certainly could without you if they knew your attitude up front) and you are wasting their time and effort to make your solo game better while participating in a group activity.

 

You want to increase your companion to the detriment of your group mates - fine and well, but you will find you grouping options dwindling as time progresses.

[Setanian]

Oh, I love this game. And since people's actions in this game directly effect how well I perform with my character, of course I'm going to worry about it. How do I tank harder instances if I keep losing all of my tank gear to companions or troopers that though they'd look awesome in a Jedi Knight robe? Again, this isn't a hard concept to grasp.

 

No the concept that is hard to grasp for you, is that you feel entitled to the loot because you believe it is bestir for you. That is just completely false on your part.

 

The only entitlement you have is to roll the dice. That you even think you have a say on who got the loot or what they do with it is just amazing.

[VanorDM]

This BS that a companion is an extension of your own character is crap.

 

How so?

 

If I'm not in a group of 4 isn't there a companion who's helping me and maybe others with DPS or healing, maybe even tanking.

 

If I'm playing my tank solo, Kira is very much helping me out, by doing DPS that I won't be doing. Increasing the DPS she does means I kill stuff faster then I would otherwise... Likewise if she has inferior gear she will do less DPS, meaning I take more damage over all.

 

How in the world does this not make companions an extension of my character?

[ferroz]

An item with Cunning is meant for IAs and smugglers.

And companions that use cunning.

 

and if it's an orange item, it's meant for jedi knights too.

 

and Troopers, since cunning is a secondary stat for them and the rest of the stats can make it an upgrade even with the loss of aim, if the item level increases enough.

 

And honestly, the only reason you guys aren't needing on class specific gear is because there's no backwards logic to justify it.

No, it's because I don't want class specific gear for classes that I'm not playing... and since I don't want it I don't click need.

[Setanian]

An item with Cunning is meant for IAs and smugglers. Regardless if it 's only usable by those classes, that it most definitely who those items where created for. And honestly, the only reason you guys aren't needing on class specific gear is because there's no backwards logic to justify it.

 

A whole more supposition from you, grounded in absolutely zero fact.

 

How do you know all this? Did you take a poll? Have you got any facts whatsoever to back it up?

 

How can you possibly believe that you know why I do things?

 

You really need to start staying with facts only and not your opinion.

[Democratus]

Because your companion didn't help accomplish the task one iota. And unless it is being used in the group it never will help.

 

Which is also wrong, since a companion can be the tool that allowed a character to reach the appropriate level for a Flashpoint. Therefore, the companion was integral to accomplishing the task.

 

Everyone has different views on what is needed and what is not.

[Loendar]

If we follow this logic, that means I can only roll need on equipment that I will use when grouped with those same 4 people...

 

If I roll need on something and then go to play with a different group of people, aren't I taking advantage of the people who helped me get that item? What if I'm only playing with one other person and we both are using companions?

 

If I win an item and equip it on my character, doesn't it help me regardless of if I'm with other people or not?

 

Hardly.

 

If you are following the loot concept that is being put forth here by some of the folks that your goal should be to increase the viability of groups (all groups, not just the current one) then you getting gear to make your group-based play is the entire point.

 

And - if you were actually taking equipment to make your character better in the area of the game you are participating in at the time (group content) then we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. You aren't though - you are taking advantage of group players to make your solo life easier to the detriment of others.

[Eldren]

I still maintain there are only 3 viable solutions to remove loot drama in this game. If none of these 3 are implemented, the loot drama won't go away, and we should all do as we're (secretly or openly) going to do anyway: as we personally wish.

 

1. Implement Roll/Pass to remove tiers of priority in loot distribution.

2. Implement companion loot boxes in all bosses' loot tables, and make all other gear class-dependent, including an inability to roll Need if you aren't part of that class.

3. Give a loot bag from the final boss to each player that contains 1 piece of loot appropriate to their class and 1 piece of loot that will upgrade one of their companions.

[Setanian]

Yes. Yes, you didn't see nor sign it. That's why I keep saying it's unseen and unwritten. You aren't forced to oblige it. But you must keep in mind that there might be the other people who will alienate you for not following it and there's a reason for it.

 

 

And I should care about greedy people alienating me? If anyone feels they have some right, written or otherwise to force me to allow them a better chance at loot while I lose out, I am delighted to be alienated from them.