Yes Ilum is broken and stupid but...

[MorbidAri]

Tons of great ideas on here. The main problem is the Faction Pop without a doubt.

 

Stat boosts to the less populated faction is a total failure. Increased rewards seems to be a common idea that just might work.

 

The main issue is why bother leveling a new toon to 50 just for a bit of rewards in Ilum. Perhaps offering an experience bonus to people leveling the less populated faction (and an added bonus if you have a 50 of the high pop faction) or perhaps a free faction switch in the future.

[Xerkics]

I think the main thing why illum doesnt work is because the geography of the place and the nature of the objectives . Open World PVP works in WAR why doesnt work here?

There its still zerg on zerg but it works? And its best at lower levels because there are smaller groups.

 

If they made illum so as to split the zerg as to make people fight for multiple places at the same time so there is meaningfull small scale warfare on a larger scale it could work.

The way they done it is just a giant zerg going around base to base.

 

Thats boring. TO be honest illum pvp area just looks like something they threw together at the last moment without really putting as much thought into the layout and design as something as great as Aldreraan Warzone. Thats designed perfectly.

[Zippor]

Remove base respawn from Ilum. That way it never comes to base camping, and you can still get to the base with the speeder from the res points over Ilum.

 

Now how is it a base if you cannot res in there? No idea at all. But it doesn't have a purpose as a base anyway, it's there just to hold 2 turrets for objective and speeder/respawn point for faction, having nothing of interest inside for the opposing faction or even for defending faction. There's nothing to be gained from camping it, other than some silly kills from stupid people staying there to be camped.

 

In WAR there was always a reason for capturing the enemys last garrison, to go forward to the next area, eventually leading to their capital. This is impossible in Ilum, unless you plan to expand it immensely, or perhaps make some incentive to be gained from capturing the enemy base, other than the increased valor gain from the turrets, which stand OUTSIDE the base.

 

At the moment, I see no reason for the bases in Ilum, they don't need to be fought over, they're only a shelter with hardly other use, on an area where there are other points to land and exit from.

[Wraithwarr]

I like the idea of it. It will only get better too.

[Soulaufein]

 

Let's face it- it's either WZ, or failure.

 

 

I don't even want to put faith in GW2, because all that's going to take is two months in everyone sees which server is winning all the time and starts rerolling there.

 

Firss, you never heard of UO, DAoC or EVE have you?

 

Second GW2 may fail for many reasons, but not the one you talked about. Once a server is full, well, its full. Also, Arenanet will constantly rotate servers, and I bet the pairings wont be random AT ALL. If your server gets 2 or 3 straight wins, you wanna bet the next pairings will screw ya over like no tomorrow? Cause these things spread.

 

Server A) wins 3 in a row, gets paired agains server B (wins 2 in a row) and server C (wins 2 in a row). You wanna bet that major guilds in B and C make an alliance to turn their factions towards server A)?

 

Generally, your post is just fail m8, no offense.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Soulaufein

[MorbidAri]

Its completly daft!

Quote!

PvP – We have an entire team dedicated to adding content and features to player vs. player. We have some of the most experienced PvP developers in the world on this team. So far very few people have seen, or know much about the stunning Open World PVP on Ilum; when you get to the high levels prepare to be blown away! In addition to that high level PVP content, expect new Warzones and new PvP features on a regular basis.

 

 

I do not recall or can find anything even close to that written by Blizz.

I dont even recall Blizzard proclaiming to be hardcore RvR game.

open RvR aye but focus on PVe.

So comparison is not even close.

Also if you had knowledge you ´d know that Blizz was prevented by Mythic to develop the pvp/rvr they wanted.

I might be wrong and in that case prove it.

Now...When you go out with a statement like that you have to be bloody sure to actually deliver.

Now i ask me whats been blown away?

prob most of the experienced players...whats left is those who linger due to friends and guilds.

Im pretty sure BW have feelt the decline in resubs.

And to be honest the only game that pretty mch been giving a a good or will give a good RvR will be a 3 factioned one.

Daoc thats a really really old game is better then Swtor in RvR by miles.

In length your comparison is way of and your conclusion lacks depth and probably you havent even played many games at all.

Ilum isnt Broken its not finished....Classes arent rdy objectives ar non eexistent,patches comming out arent tested or the community is ignored.

The list goes on.

Ive said my peace.

 

You have some strong points. It's very healthy to call out a dev team to deliver on their promises. But you should also be glad they try to implament things like world pvp and rvr given how little the mmo pvp community is.

 

Yes the pvp community is the minority. How can I say this? Look at WoW. Look at how many people do dungeons/heroics/raids and then look at how many people do BGs/RBGS/Arena. You will see a staggering difference in favor of PVE. Look at how many people visit Elitistjerks.com, Tankspot.com and the PVE aspect of the game vs Arenajunkies.com and the other pvp sites. Again staggering.

 

So the fact they are giving the smallest portion of MMO players some love is absolutly wonderful. Even if they fail at first, they could have just ignored us and called it a day. Keep up the conversation even if it gets ugly. PVP isn`t exactly friendly to begin with. Just keep it constructive like most of the posts including this quote have been.

[Xerkics]

Ye but there is only so much pve content there is till your bored pvp in wow what kept the game fresh up to a certain point. More recently its completely impossible to break into it if you dont have pvp set you got no chance and no point going warzones these day. Open world pvp was always what kept the game interesting. IT makes WAR pvp thats not sieging the stupid city so fun.

[_Banewolf_]

You have some strong points. It's very healthy to call out a dev team to deliver on their promises. But you should also be glad they try to implament things like world pvp and rvr given how little the mmo pvp community is.

 

Yes the pvp community is the minority. How can I say this? Look at WoW. Look at how many people do dungeons/heroics/raids and then look at how many people do BGs/RBGS/Arena. You will see a staggering difference in favor of PVE. Look at how many people visit Elitistjerks.com, Tankspot.com and the PVE aspect of the game vs Arenajunkies.com and the other pvp sites. Again staggering.

 

So the fact they are giving the smallest portion of MMO players some love is absolutly wonderful. Even if they fail at first, they could have just ignored us and called it a day. Keep up the conversation even if it gets ugly. PVP isn`t exactly friendly to begin with. Just keep it constructive like most of the posts including this quote have been.

 

k this sux!

I had a good long answer but the server times out and my text goes to apw****.

Anyway ill make it short.

your comparing apples with pears.

Can anyone honestly say that theyve seen a developer going all out except Daoc with 3 faction system?

No!

After that i would say Eve is a good hit.

Develop means progress and suggestions that reach beyond old games.

If you really means that Pve will be a higher ranked item over RvR/PvP then id say you missed a vital point.

And not only that,you as a developer miss a huge income.

People today are looking for a good pvP/RvR based game.

thats why so many whine and quit.

Also i know that developers want to keep it constructive.

But im old enough to realise that my knowledge or expertise dont come cheap.

Younglings may wanna shpw off there skills and expertise but i have no need for it and as long as i dont get a dime back for it im not going to give it.

Cheap bastard!!!yeah sure...im sure the developers doing these game fpr free withpout any thinking of costs or winnings.

But i aint doig **** for free at same time as im going to pay for the things a implement.

you wouldnt do it at work but willingly people do it here.

That even thoo BW claims to have the best team ever assembled and cant get even oen thing straight in ilum och class.

it is sad and i have 2 more months or sub.

If not major changes happens im out and many along with me.

Then rest of community can pve without my money.

[xCat]

BW actually gave us objective based world PVP. WoW hasn't done this since Vanilla.

Wow had Lake Wintergrasp in LK and Baradin Bay in Cataclysm.

 

Illum pvp location totally copied from LW but without player operated vehicles, friendly\unfriendly npcs, have two citadels (instead 1 in LW or 5 in BB) and just twice larger.

Can't say that large map is a really smart idea when you have player cap in 100 per 1 mirror btw...

[_Banewolf_]

12548 Edited January 22, 2012 by _Banewolf_

[_Banewolf_]

You have some strong points. It's very healthy to call out a dev team to deliver on their promises. But you should also be glad they try to implament things like world pvp and rvr given how little the mmo pvp community is.

 

Yes the pvp community is the minority. How can I say this? Look at WoW. Look at how many people do dungeons/heroics/raids and then look at how many people do BGs/RBGS/Arena. You will see a staggering difference in favor of PVE. Look at how many people visit Elitistjerks.com, Tankspot.com and the PVE aspect of the game vs Arenajunkies.com and the other pvp sites. Again staggering.

 

So the fact they are giving the smallest portion of MMO players some love is absolutly wonderful. Even if they fail at first, they could have just ignored us and called it a day. Keep up the conversation even if it gets ugly. PVP isn`t exactly friendly to begin with. Just keep it constructive like most of the posts including this quote have been.

 

k this sux!

I had a good long answer but the server times out and my text goes to apw****.

Anyway ill make it short.

your comparing apples with pears.

Can anyone honestly say that theyve seen a developer going all out except Daoc with 3 faction system?

No!

After that i would say Eve is a good hit.

Develop means progress and suggestions that reach beyond old games.

If you really means that Pve will be a higher ranked item over RvR/PvP then id say you missed a vital point.

And not only that,you as a developer miss a huge income.

People today are looking for a good pvP/RvR based game.

thats why so many whine and quit.

Also i know that developers want to keep it constructive.

But im old enough to realise that my knowledge or expertise dont come cheap.

Younglings may wanna shpw off there skills and expertise but i have no need for it and as long as i dont get a dime back for it im not going to give it.

Cheap bastard!!!yeah sure...im sure the developers doing these game fpr free withpout any thinking of costs or winnings.

But i aint doig **** for free at same time as im going to pay for the things a implement.

you wouldnt do it at work but willingly people do it here.

That even thoo BW claims to have the best team ever assembled and cant get even oen thing straight in ilum och class.

it is sad and i have 2 more months or sub.

If not major changes happens im out and many along with me.

Then rest of community can pve without my money.

[notladnai]

Its time I wrote out how I feel about world pvp in MMOs. What's working, what's not working, and what I would hope to see in the future from developers.

 

The biggest problem, or "trend", facing mmo development is having the wrong goals in mind when approaching the monster that is World pvp (Wpvp). The "complete world objectives for rewards" system is the predominant folly that comes up time and time again. Lets look at this concept a little closer and learn why it doesn't work in creating good Wpvp.

 

Q: What is a world objective?

A: Well, it is a predetermined place or thing which players are supposed to interact with.

 

Q: Why should players interact with and complete a "world objective"?

A: It gives them a reward.

 

Q:What is a "reward"?

A: Well, typically it is a statistical improvement to their character through items or experience progression.

 

What does this remind us of? PVE

Now don't get me wrong, this system works very well for PvE, it also works well in small scale PvP, which is why we see MMO developers try to implement it in every situation. "Lets just put PvE it in a PvP zone like a first person shooter, they will love it." This will work right? Well, it does work on a small scale, but it won't work for World PvP. Why not? There are two reasons:

 

1. The "do an objective to get a reward" system is linear.

2. People aren't mobs.

 

So what do these mean? Independently these are very simple statements we can all agree on, but the implication of them combined is what eludes developers. You cannot set up a reward system which is linear and expect the "game" to continue on forever. One side will eventually "win" the game. Why is this a problem? Because people aren't mobs. Getting rez camped is not fun, it does not promote good ongoing pvp. The reason this linear objective for reward system works in pve and small scale pvp is because those systems are designed to have an "end".

 

Its okay to get pad camped in a Capture the Flag Map, the other team will eventually make their last cap or time will run out, and the game will end. "You win some you lose some" as the saying goes, and it works well on a micro scale.

 

Heres the crux. World pvp is supposed to be large, continious, on going, having no end. How then can players play endlessly within a linear system desgined to be "completed"? They can't, it doesn't work.

 

The answer to this problem is so simple it hurts. Instead of a linear system, what's needed is a circular system, one that balances the push and pull, or ebb and flow of two competing forces.

 

Balancing ebb and flow between contesting forces while making the experience both enjoyable and rewarding at all times for individuals on each side should be the goal of a good Wpvp system. Like most things in life, this is easier said than done.

 

Resurection systems and map design, risk and reward vs objective and reward systems, more to come.. I'll finish writing it up this weekend.

 

-Micks

Edited January 22, 2012 by notladnai

[Thiussat]

Bottom line: kill trading is not new, it happens in every MMO. Hell, even people in WoW arena did it. I don't blame BW because some idiots want to get out there and stand in one big group as the opposite faction AoE's them down.

 

I do think the original Ilum was stupid with the node flipping dailies (I mean if your faction owned all the nodes, then you HAD to let the other faction flip them to get credit, which was just badly thought out on BW's part). Now that they've added the player kill/armament thing, it is much more sane as far the goals. Also now you have incentive to actually keep the nodes under your control (for the extra valor). All in all, they made the best adjustments they could make without completely redesigning the whole thing.

 

My point is, though, you will never be able to 100% take the incentive out of kill trading and what not. It always has went on and always will. As long as there are rewards for killing players, then people will find ways to game the system. The only way to prevent it is to give no rewards. Some people might like this, but I will tell you right now, 90% wont. So, it will never happen.

[dangerusdave]

ilum is as much world pvp as alterac valley is, if you turn it into 120 vs 40.

 

i dont count a single pvp zone, as "world pvp"

Edited January 22, 2012 by dangerusdave