Why are so many people against Arena in Swtor?

[TheBigBee]

Having a class make-up to beat another class make-up is not hardcore pvp... That is why arena is a fail....Has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with group make-up. 8 on 8 rated waz-zones will be much more of a skill test... and thats comming soon... cant wait

[makovian]

Ok this is starwars to think of starwars and no 2vs2 2vs1 1vs1

 

If u truly believe that doseent belong in starwars u are playing the wrong game

 

Powerbattels mmmm

 

How they go about it when it dose hapion not if will define this game

 

And btw wow arena system sucked I'd rather see it be more competion rated and NO GEAR ADVANTAGE

 

Redefine mmo pvp make this game be the best pvp mmo

 

Think outside the box and think starwars pvp

 

ATM I see a form of wag ab and sota come on its seedy going the wrong way

 

Demand better now or be doomed to at starWOW

Edited January 30, 2012 by makovian

[Viscerus]

Only way I'd be ok with Arena was if it only gave vanity rewards like mounts, titles and vanity costumes.

 

Arena creates this horrible gap that is so ahrd to overcome.

 

All the people in full battlemaster who make full battlemaster teams would end up at the top of the arena ladder adn get the best arena gear the fastest and just squat there. People who come to the table later get screwed.

 

It also leads to balancing around stupid team make-ups. Because only 2 variations of 3v3 are viable or only one is the best, some people get shut otu of arena completely and can't ever get their gear.

 

Arena is crap.

[Elisaveta]

I wonder why so many people want arenas. I can only conclude it is for the following reasons:

 

-Something to show off perceived leetness (With gear, titles, ratings, etc)

 

-I liked this system in WoW, why WOULDN'T Star wars do the same thing?!

WoW and arenas:

"When they introduced resilience and arenas.

It split the community in two and we never recovered".

 

-I don't like potentially queuing with scrubs in my team

 

-I like a challenge (THEN SOLO QUEUE!!! Or setup matches in world pvp, etc but most people won't do this because they have nothing to show for it. Going back to my first point).

[HBninjaX]

probably because they feel like it will be a detriment to the game. I don't really care either way, I love PVP and fair 1v1 fights but I get fulfillment from WZ and just running around ganking.

[Metalmac]

Because they come from WoW, and in WoW there was a very widespread - but very mistaken - perception that every single change to class mechanics and numbers was due solely to PvP.

 

"Stop nerfing my PvE because of Arena!" was a very, very common cry from people. They usually ignored the fact that most changes were due to PvE concerns as well.

 

The Warrior Shield Slam damage nerf was a good example. The PvE community whined and whined that their PvE was being nerfed because of PvP, even though Blizzard very clearly stated that they wanted to spread out Prot Warrior damage across their other abilities rather than having 80% of Prot Warrior damage in PvE come from one button.

 

It's funny, because in general PvP balance and fixes were practically ignored by Blizzard. Legendary quality PvE items in PvP, Arena maps that STILL had serious terrain bugs (Feared into the wall again, yay...) and other issues that just never got addressed.

 

So now we have these people in SWTOR, and they're just petrified of the idea of any sort of organized, competitive PvP because they still think that their PvE DPS/Healing/etc will get nerfed into the ground if anything happens in PvP.

 

Dude you are so WRONG, my Scrapper did get nerfed and my PVE damage burst in PVE got cut in half. Now claim you are still right. Go ahead and lie more please.

[Thiussat]

I think people are misquoting Blizzard devs. IIRC, they never said arenas were a mistake per se, but said they wish they would have planned for arenas from the very start instead of tacking it on later.

[Forsbacka]

Arena didnt really have much skills on WoW either, it was about gear and what classes you played, we real pvpers want world pvp.

 

World PvP aint very popular and therefor it aint main thing in any MMO since DAOC, There aint a single popular MMO with healthy world PvP. What comes to no skills and no gear, all decent and up from that teams had same gear so it wasnt any issue, even bad teams had same gear at 2/3 of a season apart minor upgrade on weapon.

[Forsbacka]

 

That's the problem with Arena based PvP - they always promote the FotM classes, no skill involved, it's only the best possible combo facerolling the others.

 

D.

 

Was pretty much same in high end rated Battlegrounds, teams were either spellcleve, melee train or shadowcleave. Warrior was only viable tank class, 1-2 paladins, rogue was must, so was mage in every team. There wasnt much of variation on team compositions at higher ratings.Will be just as same when rated WZs come, although this game has less classes/specs but FOTM will be name of the game in high rated WZ also.

[Narcolepsy]

To be fair to WoW they did have one really good Arena. Don't remember the name but that Arena in Stranglethorn total FFA.

[goulet]

if theres no armor introduced fine, you don't need a tiered pvp system outside of the one thats already in place, otherwise you run into to many gear discrepancies. If you want a system thats flat out competitive, and its an arena, every is buffed to a level based on their class, and we see who plays the character better, im all over it. If it boils down to another expertise battle, whats the point.

[filipesantana]

Having a class make-up to beat another class make-up is not hardcore pvp... That is why arena is a fail....Has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with group make-up. 8 on 8 rated waz-zones will be much more of a skill test... and thats comming soon... cant wait

 

ROFL...classic bg/wz hero that clearly fails at arenas...and somehow convinces himself that GRINDING ZERG FESTS=SKILL

 

********..here is a question for you...how come you cant carry ANY player to 2400+ in 3x3 arenas(unless you play his account)...but my guild manages to carry 3/10 players to 2400 Rated BGS for 100 bucks or 80k gold?

 

right...because rated bgs=skill.....LOL

 

 

SWTOR pvp comunity is a freakin joke...full of clueless naabs like this one...

[dcgregorya]

ROFL...classic bg/wz hero that clearly fails at arenas...and somehow convinces himself that GRINDING ZERG FESTS=SKILL

 

********..here is a question for you...how come you cant carry ANY player to 2400+ in 3x3 arenas(unless you play his account)...but my guild manages to carry 3/10 players to 2400 Rated BGS for 100 bucks or 80k gold?

 

right...because rated bgs=skill.....LOL

 

 

SWTOR pvp comunity is a freakin joke...full of clueless naabs like this one...

 

I read this three times and I still don't know what you're trying to say. But now my head hurts so I'm going to go eat dinner.

[Archendrus]

I just don't like arena PvP. I like world PvP. In WoW, the best PvP gear was obtained through the arena. I didn't have the best PvP gear because I didn't like to play arena matches. Hell I don't even like to play battlegrounds/warzones/mini-game pvp, but you're almost forced to in these types of games because so much depends on gear. That being said, I have no PvP gear at all in SWTOR because I refuse to grind mini-games like I had started to when I played WoW.

 

The other reason is, I'd rather see the developers put their time and resources into things I enjoy. If they spend a year on an arena system, that's a year they spent developing something that I will never use.

[Knockerz]

It's very simple. MMORPG should focus on large battles and not small group pvp. Besides, arena encourages the scrub mentality and spoils people thinking they are superior in pvp. That's why I like large scale pvp, because no one single person is important and is more about team work and less focus on individual players. Thus, you prevent players from developing the scrub mentality. There is a lot of that going in this thread already many players calling others scrubs for not accepting their precious arena. I hope it never gets implemented in any mmorpg in the future and that you realize you wasted your time playing arena. Those scrubs must be crushed! Ok, enough with that here is some data from a previous post I made.

 

 

\\

 

 

Arenas won't be implement unless their is an economic gain that is greater than investing in other areas such as pve or other content. Basically, arena isn't popular enough to implement . Arena advocates are a minority that can be ignored. Even Blizzard is ignoring arena players. Blizzard action this last season speaks volumes to the situation of arenas in wow. Plus, arena participation in wow is so low that combine number of glads and duelist in this season is less than in total of glads for any one previous season. You think Blizzard is going to invest in a sinking ship with those awful participation numbers.

 

Now you think BW will invest in arenas with the lack of participation in wow, the creator of arenas? There is no significant economic gain by investing in arenas. Until that changes you can craw back to wow. While Blizzard may have arenas, you will be treated like a second citizen and ignored by Blizzard. The actions of Blizzard this last season is proof that Blizzard doesn't care about arenas any more. Arenas won't draw any new subscriptions, participation is getting worst each season, and with a dwindling over all subscription base the problem is magnified. Ghostgrawler himself has stated that arenas consume too much resources relative to the amount of players who participate in them.

 

Just face it the old glory days of arena are gone and won't be implemented in any mmorpg in the near future due to their failure. The same reason no one will implement another sand box mmorpg in the near future due to the failure of swg.

 

I'm not say no one will absolutely attempt to implement a sand box mmorpg or arenas, but it wont' come from a major company due to the inherent risk of deviating from what has been proven to work.

 

Finally, you can generate hard statistics about arena participaton using the gladiator numbers since those are based on a percentage of active teams. Thus, generating the total number of teams participating in particular bracket for any given battleground, which can be used to calculate the total number of teams for each bracket for all of active arena teams in wow using the glad numbers. There was a player who made a list of data about glads relative to previous seasons and statistics don't lie. The combine number of glads and duelist for this last season is less than the the number of glads in previous seasons. That is very bad for arena participation. The title of gladiator is only awarded to the top .5 percent of arena rank teams and duelist to the top .5-3 percent of rank players.

 

Assuming each team has a unique player and no redundant player, some one who plays 5v5 and 3v3, then you can calculate the total number of players who are participating in arena relative to the total population of wow. You can use this to figure out arena participation for each seasons:

 

http://www.arenajunkies.com/tools/ti...tor/?season=11

 

You can't argue with those statistics. Arena is very unpopular in wow at moment. You only need to compare season 3 with season 11. If arena were so wanted, then why is it that arena participation is so low in wow? If arena participation is low, then investing resources into developing or continuing developing arena is a waste of funds. Blizzard isn't investing into arenas any more and is barely keeping any maintenance on them.

 

That's probably the reason Blizzard isn't investing in arena and is phasing arenas out due to their low participation to resources consumed ratio. If arenas failed, then it's very unlikely any future mmorpg will implement them due their perceived failure. There is no statistic you arena advocates can claim that arena is profitable or has enough participation to warrant developing arenas. There are no statistic you arena advocates can claim that provide proof that there is a large enough population that supports arenas at moment. Thus, the low participation of arena in wow justify not developing arenas, which in turn is not profitable due their low participation.

 

 

Number of Gladiators by Season

Data from AJ cutoff tool (no S1,S2)

 

3v3

-------SEASON------3--4---5---6--7---8--9--10

RECKONING-----|148|81|34|37|36|45|43|13|

CYCLONE---------|146|78|31|36|35|45|47|14|

RUIN----------------|163|89|34|39|38|55|47|19|

VINDICATION-----|145|80|38|41|40|55|43|18|

BLOODLUST-----|159|92|40|49|52|68|57|25|

VENGEANCE-----|126|62|30|35|32|43|33|13|

RAMPAGE---------|149|79|29|35|33|43|34|14|

SHADOWBURN-|134|70|32|37|36|49|36|15|

STORMSTRIKE--|135|66|32|37|35|42|33|14|

NIGHTFALL-------|107|66|29|33|33|48|33|14|

WHIRLWIND-----|-87|53|22|27|27|36|41|11|

EMBERSTORM--|-38|30|16|21|20|28|19|10|

RETALIATION----|-45|32|18|19|28|29|20|10|

-------SEASON------3--4---5---6--7---8--9--10

 

Season 3 RUIN had 32,792 active teams

Season 3 total had 318,172 active teams

Season 10 total had 39,361 active teams

 

 

Copy and pasted a post on the wow forums as you can see participation is very low. Stats for season 11 are a lot worst. Almost all the glads numbers are single digits and for 5v5 there were not enough active teams for their to be any glads in that bracket. Basically, arena is finished in wow.

 

I don't see no reason for justifying development of an arena system with those statistics. So what if a few players quit over no arenas. Their numbers don't justify developing arenas.

 

 

\\

Edited January 30, 2012 by Knockerz

[Bubalous]

so which seasons were you a gladiator in?

 

casuals cant take playing alongside hardcore players because not only will have have a gear disadvantage from hours invested, they also have anywhere from a slight to completely crippling skill advantage. it won't matter if its arena, or rated warzones, or whatever they call it, when you have PvP, someone wins and someone loses.

 

there's an infinite number of excuses you can come up with to soothe yourself, if thats how you want to deal with it, but the fact remains people QQ because they are unable to admit that they aren't good enough.

gratz , you just proved a lot of people's negative views on arena pvp by pulling out the 'what was your rating so shut up scrub casual 'card.

All arena brought to wow was a bunch of elitists that thought their rating when playing fotm comps made them pvp gods

Edited January 30, 2012 by Bubalous

[filipesantana]

It's very simple. MMORPG should focus on large battles and not small group pvp. Besides, arena encourages the scrub mentality and spoils people thinking they are superior in pvp. That's why I like large scale pvp, because no one single person is important and is more about team work and less focus on individual players. Thus, you prevent players from developing the scrub mentality. There is a lot of that going in this thread already many players calling others scrubs for not accepting their precious arena. I hope it never gets implemented in any mmorpg in the future and that you realize you wasted your time playing arena. Those scrubs must be crushed! Ok, enough with that here is some data from a previous post I made.

 

 

\\

 

 

Arenas won't be implement unless their is an economic gain that is greater than investing in other areas such as pve or other content. Basically, arena isn't popular enough to implement . Arena advocates are a minority that can be ignored. Even Blizzard is ignoring arena players. Blizzard action this last season speaks volumes to the situation of arenas in wow. Plus, arena participation in wow is so low that combine number of glads and duelist in this season is less than in total of glads for any one previous season. You think Blizzard is going to invest in a sinking ship with those awful participation numbers.

 

Now you think BW will invest in arenas with the lack of participation in wow, the creator of arenas? There is no significant economic gain by investing in arenas. Until that changes you can craw back to wow. While Blizzard may have arenas, you will be treated like a second citizen and ignored by Blizzard. The actions of Blizzard this last season is proof that Blizzard doesn't care about arenas any more. Arenas won't draw any new subscriptions, participation is getting worst each season, and with a dwindling over all subscription base the problem is magnified. Ghostgrawler himself has stated that arenas consume too much resources relative to the amount of players who participate in them.

 

Just face it the old glory days of arena are gone and won't be implemented in any mmorpg in the near future due to their failure. The same reason no one will implement another sand box mmorpg in the near future due to the failure of swg.

 

I'm not say no one will absolutely attempt to implement a sand box mmorpg or arenas, but it wont' come from a major company due to the inherent risk of deviating from what has been proven to work.

 

Finally, you can generate hard statistics about arena participaton using the gladiator numbers since those are based on a percentage of active teams. Thus, generating the total number of teams participating in particular bracket for any given battleground, which can be used to calculate the total number of teams for each bracket for all of active arena teams in wow using the glad numbers. There was a player who made a list of data about glads relative to previous seasons and statistics don't lie. The combine number of glads and duelist for this last season is less than the the number of glads in previous seasons. That is very bad for arena participation. The title of gladiator is only awarded to the top .5 percent of arena rank teams and duelist to the top .5-3 percent of rank players.

 

Assuming each team has a unique player and no redundant player, some one who plays 5v5 and 3v3, then you can calculate the total number of players who are participating in arena relative to the total population of wow. You can use this to figure out arena participation for each seasons:

 

http://www.arenajunkies.com/tools/ti...tor/?season=11

 

You can't argue with those statistics. Arena is very unpopular in wow at moment. You only need to compare season 3 with season 11. If arena were so wanted, then why is it that arena participation is so low in wow? If arena participation is low, then investing resources into developing or continuing developing arena is a waste of funds. Blizzard isn't investing into arenas any more and is barely keeping any maintenance on them.

 

That's probably the reason Blizzard isn't investing in arena and is phasing arenas out due to their low participation to resources consumed ratio. If arenas failed, then it's very unlikely any future mmorpg will implement them due their perceived failure. There is no statistic you arena advocates can claim that arena is profitable or has enough participation to warrant developing arenas. There are no statistic you arena advocates can claim that provide proof that there is a large enough population that supports arenas at moment. Thus, the low participation of arena in wow justify not developing arenas, which in turn is not profitable due their low participation.

 

 

Number of Gladiators by Season

Data from AJ cutoff tool (no S1,S2)

 

3v3

-------SEASON------3--4---5---6--7---8--9--10

RECKONING-----|148|81|34|37|36|45|43|13|

CYCLONE---------|146|78|31|36|35|45|47|14|

RUIN----------------|163|89|34|39|38|55|47|19|

VINDICATION-----|145|80|38|41|40|55|43|18|

BLOODLUST-----|159|92|40|49|52|68|57|25|

VENGEANCE-----|126|62|30|35|32|43|33|13|

RAMPAGE---------|149|79|29|35|33|43|34|14|

SHADOWBURN-|134|70|32|37|36|49|36|15|

STORMSTRIKE--|135|66|32|37|35|42|33|14|

NIGHTFALL-------|107|66|29|33|33|48|33|14|

WHIRLWIND-----|-87|53|22|27|27|36|41|11|

EMBERSTORM--|-38|30|16|21|20|28|19|10|

RETALIATION----|-45|32|18|19|28|29|20|10|

-------SEASON------3--4---5---6--7---8--9--10

 

Season 3 RUIN had 32,792 active teams

Season 3 total had 318,172 active teams

Season 10 total had 39,361 active teams

 

 

Copy and pasted a post on the wow forums as you can see participation is very low. Stats for season 11 are a lot worst. Almost all the glads numbers are single digits and for 5v5 there were not enough active teams for their to be any glads in that bracket. Basically, arena is finished in wow.

 

I don't see no reason for justifying development of an arena system with those statistics. So what if a few players quit over no arenas. Their numbers don't justify developing arenas.

 

 

\\

 

 

So now you jsut copy paste this thing to every thread?!ive seen u say this stuff several tiems for the last month....

 

 

 

listen....Baddie(u HAVE to be one..lol)...BIOWARE ALLREADY ANOUCED RATED WZ FOR MARCH....thats 8v8...ehen they come people will complain about the size...and the maps...and the retardness...from there to 4v4 or 3v3 in smalle rmaps will be a small step...so ye...YOU ARE WRONG SON...

 

 

ur also and idiot that doent udnerstand arena and THOSE NUMBERS u keep spaming...a few facts for your small head:

 

 

1-YOU COULD GET GLAD FROM 2x2...and 2x2 HAD THE MOST PARTICIPANTS IN THE FIRST 6 SEASONS

 

 

 

2-PARTICIPATION ACOMPANIES THE DEECREASE OF SUBS...in proportion its the same or HIGHER

 

 

3-GLAD is WAY Harder to get now then EVER was in the first seasons...

 

 

 

 

 

 

so your..jsut WRONG....so just **** STAY SMALL AND QUIET

[Sanxxx]

ur also and idiot that doent udnerstand arena and THOSE NUMBERS u keep spaming...a few facts for your small head:

 

The average IQ of the pro-arena people never ceases to amaze me.

[kheide]

It's easy. If you don't like arenas, then you don't play it. If you don't like it, then you sure as hell don't need the gear from it so no point in whining about that either. The reason people whine is because they know they CANT get it because they don't have what it takes which again makes them feel it's unfair.

[Grunnd]

Arenas are great fun if balance is good.

 

People who don't like arenas are bad. End of story. That level of teamwork and coordination simply can't be matched by other forms of MMO PvP.

 

I don't agree with giving them higher levels of gear, should be simply mounts, titles, etc.

 

The problem is I am not sure Bioware can handle the monster of balancing issues. It would take a lot of time and dedicated resources from the PvP team but if they did it correctly Arena would be a huge hit.

[Knockerz]

It's easy. If you don't like arenas, then you don't play it. If you don't like it, then you sure as hell don't need the gear from it so no point in whining about that either. The reason people whine is because they know they CANT get it because they don't have what it takes which again makes them feel it's unfair.

 

Arena players generally want arena to be a e-sport. A sport must have equal gear between teams to measure skill correctly. Thus, you can't have an e-sport without normalizing gear. Players who don't want gear to be normalized are just baddies who can't cut it on an even playing field.

[sunsu]

Wow had how many subs, what percent pvped in the arena? Out of a few million subs, i think you would be lucky to say a few thousand used the arena at any one given time. I think this game has a lot more pressing issues at its current state then to implement an arena system.

 

I like to say that mmos that start with pvp as a secondary playstyle are always in trouble from the get go. The bottomline as someone pointed out, casual players cannot compete for the most part with hardcore players, the two need to be separated. It would be like me playing golf a couple times a week trying to match up to Tiger Woods, its not gonna happen.

 

You wouldnt expect any pro sport team to match up to a college or highschool team, so why would expect any different here. There is a time(practice) factor that people are not recognizing. Regardless, of the system they implement here, if they dont recognize the two completely different playstyles you will always have a component that feels underpowered.

[MadcatGTs]

I love all the people that say " i r hardcore pvper!!!11!!!" then they say they pvp'ed in WoW. Makes me giggle inside. Hate to break it to ya, but Hardcore is not how much you play a game. Its the difficulty of the game that makes it hardcore. 'Cause theres nothing hardcore in Wow, Aoc, War, Rift, Aion, or Swtor.

[Larudior]

In my eyes the people who're really skilled at arenas are better than others at it and it doesn't sting in my eyes , I admire those who're better than me and try to learn from them.

 

Much like people have idols and rolemodels in sports I've that when it comes to gaming and some of them are arena players <3.

 

All of you that were great or are great at arena respect to you guys , and for all you guys that are great at ganking , bg's or pve respect to you aswell.

 

I've come to the insight that we who want arena might not be able to get it cause of different concerns of many people so I guess we might not be able to coexist and if that will be the case in the end , no hard feelings.

 

If they don't implement arena and you guys who're against it get to have things as you wish I'm happy for you guys , I'm sure I can find some other game that will suit me better when it comes to my urge to play arena.

 

After all I'm not out to try and mess up a game and if that is what arena will do to swtor well then I would say the price is too high.

[sunsu]

I love all the people that say " i r hardcore pvper!!!11!!!" then they say they pvp'ed in WoW. Makes me giggle inside. Hate to break it to ya, but Hardcore is not how much you play a game. Its the difficulty of the game that makes it hardcore. 'Cause theres nothing hardcore in Wow, Aoc, War, Rift, Aion, or Swtor.

 

Umm i disagree, someone that sits down and breaks down powers, spends hours figuring out how to boost damage, writes guides, breaks down parses, pretty much spends their day figuring out how to get an edge i would consider hardcore. People having call trees and waking up at 3am to do boss kills or spends the majority of thier day trying to get world firsts, ya thats hardcore imo.