Why are so many people against Arena in Swtor?

[Dogfatherxx]

Im not against it but I would rather them focus their efforts on giving us bigger WZs, not smaller ones. I would like to see 20 vs 20, 30 vs 30, or even 40 vs 40 WZ before the smaller WZs.

[Noctournys]

I'll just re-iterate my stance boiled down to it's most basic form:

 

I prefer a form of PvP that measures more skills than just "who can stare at a door better" or "Who can focus on not dying at a tower controls until his team mates get there".

 

your infantile suggestion that learning how to survive when 2-4 people are on your node, all the while keeping them from capping, is somehow NOT a PvP skill, is laughable.

 

Everyone has an opinion, I personally have completely stopped all PvP, and merely log in once in a while when a friend asks me to do a Hardmode, I find warzones to be the most mind numbing experience I could imagine, if I die, I lose nothing, I respawn and run back, I've lost nothing, nothing mattered from the time, I may of done something in the process that won me the game, hurray? I'm still left feeling like I'm grinding, because the average person in a warzone is not as good as me, and I don't mean that as an insult, I just mean it in a way that reflects my lack of enjoyment of killing someone who is practically defenseless, due to the massive gap in ability, my mind is stuck in a state of "I'm killing mobs" because it's very rare that my mindset ever leaves that, when inside a warzone.

 

Honestly, a lot of those people sound better than you. They are not focused on kills like it's the be-all, end-all. I'd rather have a guy with a 1-10 K/D ratio on my team, if he he died to you 10 times on the road, preventing you from getting to a node my team captured.. he was 10x as useful to his team as you were to yours.

 

Could rated warzones change this? probably, however my chances of being a fotm are much lower as I always preferred the less well represented classes, and I have a strong suspicion if you can choose, or you know which warzone you're going to get, people are going to be very picky about what classes they take, that is something I never had to worry about with arena.

 

... you never got sat because of your class choice in Arena and yet you claim to have played competitively? You're just bald-faced lying. Class comp was the FIRST stage of picking an Arena team.

 

I find staring at a door, or sitting at a base because everyone else left, or even continually waiting and stunning someone over a fire pit (I close my eyes and shake my head at this often) to be very, very dull,

 

Then dont play with bads? All that aside, hyperbole does not an argument make. I utilize my team to do more th an just watch a door. I send guys out to intercept the enemy short of that door, i sometimes leave a door "empty" to encourage the enemy to move the direction i want so we can pincer them. I often rotate details to make sure no one gets bored. If you're playing with people that dont understand teamwork (or, like you, have no concept of the difference between strategy and tactics - which are very different things, and strategy, by the very nature of an Arena system, is stilted, brutally dumbed down, or outright missing)

 

The reason i like objective based games is because they reward more than just kill-gaming. I can send my 'sin and my 'op in to harass a node or prevent a node cap against an entire team. Theyll die. A lot. We'll win.

 

I've had huttball games where no one on my team had more than 90-100k damage, and our healers didn't break 200k. We had horrible K/D ratios... we also shut them out 6-0 because they were deathmatching and we were playing the game.

 

I much prefer a struggle lasting a decent amount of time, a battle of wills, of tactics and strategy, of luring your opposition into a false sense of security. with no downtime. (waiting for the comparison to Druid+anything vs Druid+anything lasting forever, didn't play healer comps)

 

"I didn't play healer comps" let me translate: "I never really played Arena". Playing without a healer is like taking a butterknife to a fight with Navy SEALs.

 

My point in all of this is about the people saying "The deathmatch style is boring" well I find your objective based warzone boring, who's right? neither of us. we're both ignorant to the other persons point of view.

 

Difference is, im not ignorant of your point of view. I just understand how it's flawed. 2 time gladiator in the first 4 seasons, before the mindless deathmatch made me want to quit WoW entirely.

 

Whats your reason behind not having it as an added extra, with no added gear, or any perks, in effect making it a less viable way to farm gear or rewards? whilst at the same time having this stated as such whilst informing the community it will be for fun and no balancing will be done around it? nothing. There's no reason not to do it.

 

Because it wont happen. The moment it is added, and there AREN'T reasons to do it beyond bragging rights, this forum will be flooded with QQ posts about how their "elite deathmatch skills" should be more rewarded, how people who dont agree with them dont matter. The moment it is added, and all PvP isnt suddenly b alanced around the chosen "Arena" size, the QQ will never cease.

 

Balancing in this game is going to happen at the WZ, macro-level. Theyve been emphatic about that from the start. Arena, therefore, would NEVER be balanced.

 

Honestly, from your comments, you're the kind of guy who goes 45-0/400-500k in a losing Warzone and is harping on the rest of the team about losing, because obviously they suck - nevermind the fact that you were so focused on kills and your score that you didn't do your job.

 

I'd never want a selfish dog like you on me team, Arena or otherwise, because you're more worried about the good of you over the good of the team.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Noctournys

[xXxTitanxXx]

I didn't read 30 pages so please forgive me if I say something that has already be brought up.

 

I will start by saying that this is my first MMO, so I have now WoW experience. In my eyes, it seems like a lot of people are against arena because it is hard to balance PvE and PvP without one ruining the other. That makes sense to me.

 

However, couldn't BW implement a system where PvP and PvE stats are different? For instance, if I enter a FP I get a buff/nerf to certain abilities (like bolster for PvP). Would something like that work? Now I do not take credit for this idea, but I watched a video on Youtube where someone mentioned that idea. Sadly I don't remember his name, but if someone reminds me I'll make sure to edit it in so credit is given where it is due.

Edited February 3, 2012 by xXxTitanxXx

[Kolbenito]

The problem is not whether or not you enjoy a type of gameplay. People really don't care what your personnal preference for PVP gameplay is. The ideal design is for there to be several ways to PVP competitively and you can pick the one you like because the rewards are equivalent.

[Kolbenito]

I didn't read 30 pages so please forgive me if I say something that has already be brought up.

 

I will start by saying that this is my first MMO, so I have now WoW experience. In my eyes, it seems like a lot of people are against arena because it is hard to balance PvE and PvP without one ruining the other. That makes sense to me.

 

However, couldn't BW implement a system where PvP and PvE stats are different? For instance, if I enter a FP I get a buff/nerf to certain abilities (like bolster for PvP). Would something like that work? Now I do not take credit for this idea, but I watched a video on Youtube where someone mentioned that idea. Sadly I don't remember his name, but if someone reminds me I'll make sure to edit it in so credit is given where it is due.

 

It is usually more in class abilities where the problem is. Example healer X is very good in PVE but terrible in Arena/PvP. You have to be very careful on how you buff healer X for PVP so you don't make them the only healer people want for Nightmare mode.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Kolbenito

[mufutiz]

there are three facts about arena PvP:

 

- you can't hide behind your gear in arena. In fact you can't hide at all. You either kill your enemy or get mauled yourself. ad victorem spolias.

- you will always (in theory) be matched against opponents of equal skill.

 

most importantly:

 

If you are a good player, everybody will know it. Be a bad player, everybody will know it.

 

 

It's pretty clear why the average mmo player does not like arena.

Edited February 3, 2012 by mufutiz

[Iamurfriend]

Really? How my not-so-good pvp player friend (around 1700 rating on every season, when start was 1500 then) managed to get gladiator on his pala in season 5 as DK-holy pala 2v2?

Weird...

Set up is the 99% in arena

And to have many viable set ups, u need all your game balanced around arena..

no thx

 

Pointing out that wow had 1 awful season of 2v2 when DK's were intially released doesn't prove your point. Also, your friend must have not been that horrible. Perhaps his ratings were low because he was carry his crappy friend (you). Even playing the most OP comp in the history of wow, you still have to beat the other OP comps to get gladiator, so whatever.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Wekeltes

[Beakertanks]

Arena has inflated rewards that force people into the arena mini-game, even if they don't want to. If arena only offered titles and mounts etc., I would not have a problem with it, but if they give arena players gear advantages, it should never see the light of day.

 

This.

[Beakertanks]

The problem is not whether or not you enjoy a type of gameplay. People really don't care what your personnal preference for PVP gameplay is. The ideal design is for there to be several ways to PVP competitively and you can pick the one you like because the rewards are equivalent.

 

And this.

[Beakertanks]

there are three facts about arena PvP:

 

- you can't hide behind your gear in arena. In fact you can't hide at all. You either kill your enemy or get mauled yourself. ad victorem spolias.

- you will always (in theory) be matched against opponents of equal skill.

 

most importantly:

 

If you are a good player, everybody will know it. Be a bad player, everybody will know it.

 

 

It's pretty clear why the average mmo player does not like arena.

 

This post makes no sense. Arena was about playing the right class and spec. Not skill. Unless you faced exact same class and spec. Which is well boring and pointless.

[Iamurfriend]

Right, and Nightmare modes are fine to have, but they shouldn't reward better gear then regular mode ops groups, that wouldn't be fair to the bad kids.

 

 

 

We get it, you're bad. Arena really magnifies this, and it pisses you off. So instead of getting better, you come to the forums and beg them to not implement them.

[iceperson]

That isn't the point of arena. At low ratings, sure there is a lot of cheese and it can deecide matches. You aren't going to beat any high rated team without outplaying them to a win.

 

that's laughable. my best friend is pretty good (high warlord from vanilla and a glad every season), the first season after wrath came out i remember him and his lock friend asking my wife to join their team on her pali (she's a clicker) and she rolled to a 2500 rating

[iceperson]

Right, and Nightmare modes are fine to have, but they shouldn't reward better gear then regular mode ops groups.

 

they don't (at least not better than hard modes)...

Edited February 3, 2012 by iceperson

[nubzz]

that's laughable. my best friend is pretty good (high warlord from vanilla and a glad every season), the first season after wrath came out i remember him and his lock friend asking my wife to join their team on her pali (she's a clicker) and she rolled to a 2500 rating

I made it to 2400 cliking with a rl friend playing a druid that didn't know how to shift and run so I don't know if that is really saying much lol.

Edited February 3, 2012 by nubzz

[Iamurfriend]

they don't (at least not better than hard modes)...

 

this game is made for pandas...

[Delavager]

This post makes no sense. Arena was about playing the right class and spec. Not skill. Unless you faced exact same class and spec. Which is well boring and pointless.

 

Actually, THIS post makes no sense.

 

To say Arena or anything in PvP isn't about skill is is plain ignorant and stupid. So if you "pick the right class and spec" do you automatically win when the arena starts? Do you just push one button once and win? Even with an over powered comp, there is still a lot of skill involved, it's just EASIER. Simply knowing how to take advantage of having an overpowered comp is "skillful" in itself.

 

When things are EASIER doesn't mean that there is no skill involved, you still have to know what buttons to press and when.

[tekanon]

Arena has inflated rewards that force people into the arena mini-game, even if they don't want to. If arena only offered titles and mounts etc., I would not have a problem with it, but if they give arena players gear advantages, it should never see the light of day.

 

^ This

[Kolbenito]

If Arena was really 99% comp, then the guaranteed way to get Gladiator every season is really simple. You and two of your buddies roll new characters a month before the next season starts for whatever the fotm comp is going to be. Plenty of time to get to max level and get the new starter set to start working on your free Glad title.

 

Wait that doesn't work?

 

You picked the right comp, and started on equal gear. Amazed you aren't going to Blizzcon.

 

Maybe it's because there are players that can do stuff like this http://warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=198629

[Delavager]

^ This

 

The quoted statement is an incorrect statement. Arena does not have inflated rewards etc. Where is it defined that Arena = inflated rewards?

[Kolbenito]

that's laughable. my best friend is pretty good (high warlord from vanilla and a glad every season), the first season after wrath came out i remember him and his lock friend asking my wife to join their team on her pali (she's a clicker) and she rolled to a 2500 rating

 

That was a good rating for the highest rated players in the game on BG9 in TBC. Why do I think you are making stuff up on the internet.

[Hitokirin]

Because they know it will be overrun by sorc teams

[Kolbenito]

I made it to 2400 cliking with a rl friend playing a druid that didn't know how to shift and run so I don't know if that is really saying much lol.

 

Guy stands there and lets you S key and keyboard turn around him while you beat no him with your Karazhan weapon, partner dead and hunter not peeling you at all.

 

You sure it wasn't more like 1400?

 

Do not post stuff like this please, I'm a nice guy and don't like to have to call BS.

 

btw, this is what warrior PVP during TBC looks like for 2400 MMR.

http://warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=158517

http://warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=159361

Edited February 3, 2012 by Kolbenito

[EscVelocity]

I think it's obvious why famous PvP'rs on YouTube typically show how to play a class by making Arena videos.

 

You can't exactly test your true skills in a game of Huttball. You can only win with a couple different abilities in certain situations.

[MrXen]

Sorry I am confused, why would players who do not like the arena system claim they do not want it when it is a 100% voluntary action? There is a smaller minority of people who love arena who love the fact that your fighting on a ladder system, that there is zero chance of anyone interrupting your fight and it all comes down to you and your partners skill. Yes of course some balancing would take place on classes all arena would do is put a spot like on the too powerful classes so Bioware may allow balance. World of Warcraft had massive diversity in there classes that caused huge balance issues constantly, Swtor has very very similar mechanics entwined into each class that would save tones of nerf/buff patchs.

 

Things Swtor could do better to Arena type pvp

 

-> Same rewards for Arena pvp as all other type battlegrounds? (same gain rate, so people who only like arena dont have to play huttball against/with bots and afks.)

 

->I always felt the competitive edge of different gear was what made Arena fun the guy with the legendary hit hard that how it was supposed to work. Swtor could simply auto buff stats to the same level (just like low lvls in bgs) so that regardless of your gear it actually did come down to skill.

 

TLDR : Arenas were fun in wow, a lot of people used them. Why are there masses of people so against in a 100% voluntary action in a game?

 

Because people would rather whine and ruin the game and "be different than WoW at any cost" than accept a good idea for new content.

[nikpower]

->I always felt the competitive edge of different gear was what made Arena fun the guy with the legendary hit hard that how it was supposed to work. Swtor could simply auto buff stats to the same level (just like low lvls in bgs) so that regardless of your gear it actually did come down to skill.

 

i think you are refering to GW2