nubzz Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 If we are going to keep the expertise stat anyway then I don't see why adding arena's wouldn't be a fine thing. I'll play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidJustice Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I for one hate smalish pvp in tiny area's for loot grind. I like BIG PVP IN BIG AREAS FOR JUSTICE, MY GUILD, MY FACTION AND MY HONOR! Arena's are really the worst of WOWMMOWORLD and it's consequences for gaming. Instanced pvp was ok... Alterec Valley "in the beginning" before zombies afk in the caves... was fantastic. Everyone knows TM/Southshore was the high point of WOWISHPVP. If they instanced Illium and had pop caps at 50 each side it'd be fun imho... Edited February 3, 2012 by VoidJustice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jest Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Warhammer online specifically implented a completely new game for arenas rather than integrate into their MMO. THAT is how much arena affects an MMO. Mythic/Bioware knows this. No. They made an entirely new game because the "Arena" game they implemented goes against lore (you can have cross faction teams) and Games Workshop is very strict about that sort of thing. Anyhow.. there's no law that says Arena must become the primary way to earn gear. Balance cries always come from the Primary way to earn Gear.. keep that focus on Warzones and Illum and it'll be fine. Allow Arena to earn towards gear at a lower rate than Warzones and there will be no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbonn Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 objective based battle field = fun arena = boring and stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fest Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 People think arenas were the excuse for Blizzard's ****** balancing when the two had NOTHING to do with each other. It was the WAY Blizzard balanced that made it ******. They're afraid of doing small, incremental changes instead of large, sweeping changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) There's no reason not to have arena. People would play arena just for a competitive ladder, there wouldn't need to be rewards. You literally just listed off the best reason to not have arena. For one, yes, there would need to be rewards. There would be endless crying on these forums about "Why don't I get gear for competing at a level above everyone else, blah blah blah, I am awesome praise me and watch my live stream." Beyond that....giving people an arena rating automatically turns the forums and general chat into a war of numbers. You don't have XXXX rating? Your opinion doesn't matter says the guy on the level 10 alt. People think arenas were the excuse for Blizzard's ****** balancing when the two had NOTHING to do with each other. It was the WAY Blizzard balanced that made it ******. They're afraid of doing small, incremental changes instead of large, sweeping changes. WoW's devs, from their own mouths, have said that arena requires focused balancing, that arena is the reason for a lot of the class changes, and that it often leaves PvE players wondering why their class was changed. Stop blatantly lying about an issue that has been openly discussed by the creators of arena themselves. Edited February 3, 2012 by Celebrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriam Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Arena didnt really have much skills on WoW either, it was about gear and what classes you played, we real pvpers want world pvp. Are you kidding? There was a vast difference in a glad playing against a 1500 rated player. A glad could win easily and you could see the skill. Why was there a large community for arena discussion where people could ask for advice? You think people paid tosee tournaments to see baddies play? There was irrefutably apparent that there was skill. It may be skill which you dont like, but dont be naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Are you kidding? There was a vast difference in a glad playing against a 1500 rated player. A glad could win easily and you could see the gear, comp, and cookie cut spec. Fixed. Wanna be a glad? Be a mage, find a rogue, find a priest, faceroll to epix. Resto sham + any 2 classes = free glad. Skill at a premium! Edited February 3, 2012 by Celebrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negativenergy Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I use the keyboard to turn so please don't make an arena. I want just WZs, because that is a great reflection of how good I am in PVP. Grinding gear for long periods of time makes me good. Playing against skilled teams with coordination and a ranking system in no way shape or form would reflect a players skill. PVE is where the real skill is anyways. I kill AI because imma tough guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolbenito Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Arena both provides solutions to old problems as well as creating new ones. If the only end game was PVP it would be easy to solve, Blizzard would have locked this down a couple of expansions ago. The problem is keeping everyone happy with PVE and PVP, a change made for the good of either almost invariably does something negative to the other. It's not really even about what Arena did to PVP, but what having Raiding and Arena did to each other to constantly create tough problems to solve. My position is that Blizzard's biggest mistake with implementing Arena was not putting in Rated Battlegrounds at the same time. Many people simply prefer that type of PVP, and they are a lot easier to balance for. Elitism, there is nothing a developer can do to prevent it. People who choose to be jerks will find something to do it over. I think a lot of people had bad experiences with Arena simply because it exposes everything you are not good at. You might be an overall decent player but don't communicate well, disastrous for Arena. Anything your team are weak at will reflect in your ratings. As a completely isolated way to play the game Arena is the most fun I have ever had, the most educational experience too. You find some good partners and start playing games and it is like a firehose of learning and improving, "synergy" in a way that actually means something tangible. It feels great and is rewarding on a completely different level from crushing bads in a Warzone. As for World PVP it existed in WoW until you could queue up for everything without actually moving your character. Anyone who was around for Isle of Quel'Danas (a PVE quest hub) can explain to you what makes world PVP actually work. The tl;dr here is that I love Arena but understand the problems with it in a mixed PVE and PVP game. If they seriously pursue it my recommendation is lots and lots of testing, and possibly isolating it to a designated "e-sport" or "Arena" sever per geographic region. Edited February 3, 2012 by Kolbenito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolbenito Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) You don't have XXXX rating? Your opinion doesn't matter says the guy on the level 10 alt. I agree this is very annoying. These trolls would find something to say though, so ignore is the way to go. Problem is, often times where PVP is concerned there is some validity to a high rated player (not a level 10 troll) telling a low rated player they don't know what is and isn't overpowered or that their opinion on how something works is wrong. Take the example of Deathwish, it is very powerful if not dispelled. A high rated team will dispel it or CC the person 100% of the time. A low rated team might not even know you can. Edited February 3, 2012 by Kolbenito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winraxj Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 People deserve to be rewarded for being better than others. Enough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamurfriend Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Fixed. Wanna be a glad? Be a mage, find a rogue, find a priest, faceroll to epix. Resto sham + any 2 classes = free glad. Skill at a premium! spoken like a true baddie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipchak Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Remove flashpoints and operations. I do not enjoy them and rarely do them. I hate seeing people gearing up with pve gear, which I will never obtain, because I have no time nor the will for raiding. Unfair advantage. Should I also add the fact that pve balance concerns completely ruins pvp experience. Excuses against a possible arena implementation is slightly more viable though - but only slightly -, gotta give you that. Edited February 3, 2012 by Kipchak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easydry Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Every class in this game has a low cd interrupt. 75% of people chose not to make use of it. I would bet they don't even have it on their bar. Instead they whine on forums. this ^^ bring in arenas and lets fight someone who knows what they are doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggieBoons Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 "Scurbs" "Baddies" "LP2" all those were made up by children and now you are running around using slang created by a child. Arena makes no sense in games that are about two factions at war. Arena came out during WoW's expansion where the two factions decided to hold hands and love eachother. Actually since you like child slang here is one for you " carebear". Arena's are for carebears who can't function in a non sterile environment without all their cooldowns and the comp of the month. Take into account Huttball exists. And in KOTOR there were a lot of arenas. It makes more sense in TOR than WoW as a lore standpoint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Balance cries always come from the Primary way to earn Gear.. keep that focus on Warzones and Illum and it'll be fine. Allow Arena to earn towards gear at a lower rate than Warzones and there will be no problems. Not really, just read this forum for 10 minutes and you'll find at least 50 posts because someone doesn't think class A is "balanced" for 1v1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Ill just re-iterate my stance boiled down to it's most basic form: I prefer a form of PvP that measures more skills than just "who can kill better" or "who died first". Deathmatch is extremely limited, and showcases only a very narrow, limited skillset. The other statements about the elitism and the numbers game on the forums, i agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imer Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I use the keyboard to turn so please don't make an arena. I want just WZs, because that is a great reflection of how good I am in PVP. Grinding gear for long periods of time makes me good. Playing against skilled teams with coordination and a ranking system in no way shape or form would reflect a players skill. PVE is where the real skill is anyways. I kill AI because imma tough guy. Just This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamurfriend Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Arena is the ultimate way to test pvp skill. Without it pvp will become stale and boring. You guys can argue about the rewards for it all you'd like, but this game WILL lose a significant amount of pvp players unless some sort of competitive pvp environment is implemeneted. Hutball is a terrific warzone, but it still gets stale after time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulup Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Because of balancing issues outside of whether those changes had an impact on pve or pvp outside of arena. Whoever thinks WoW dumbed talent trees - first in Cata and now in their upcoming Pandoria expansion - down for anything but such balancing reasons should look at other Esport games first. They have to keep things simple to balance the game around such a specific situation. Yet complex is good imo - hated Blizz for a couple Warlock changes mid TBC. Arena is a mini-game which has evolved into an Esport with professional gamers getting paid huge sums for tournaments just look at Blizzcon Homogenization always follows attempts to balance classes with complex/different abliities around such a versus enviorment. Talent trees are getting dumbed down because of such balancing issues in WoW now and how is arena anything other than a deathmatch on specific maps with carefully picked classes/players you run with all the time? I ran with a priest on a warlock in TBC - whoever killed off the other team first won I would much rather see BW work on solutions for GOOD world pvp - something which kept DAOC alive Seems like people are just way too hung up on Arenas because of WoW to give anything else a chance Edited February 3, 2012 by vulup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaliem Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Ill just re-iterate my stance boiled down to it's most basic form: I prefer a form of PvP that measures more skills than just "who can kill better" or "who died first". Deathmatch is extremely limited, and showcases only a very narrow, limited skillset. The other statements about the elitism and the numbers game on the forums, i agree with. I'll just re-iterate my stance boiled down to it's most basic form: I prefer a form of PvP that measures more skills than just "who can stare at a door better" or "Who can focus on not dying at a tower controls until his team mates get there". Everyone has an opinion, I personally have completely stopped all PvP, and merely log in once in a while when a friend asks me to do a Hardmode, I find warzones to be the most mind numbing experience I could imagine, if I die, I lose nothing, I respawn and run back, I've lost nothing, nothing mattered from the time, I may of done something in the process that won me the game, hurray? I'm still left feeling like I'm grinding, because the average person in a warzone is not as good as me, and I don't mean that as an insult, I just mean it in a way that reflects my lack of enjoyment of killing someone who is practically defenseless, due to the massive gap in ability, my mind is stuck in a state of "I'm killing mobs" because it's very rare that my mindset ever leaves that, when inside a warzone. Could rated warzones change this? probably, however my chances of being a fotm are much lower as I always preferred the less well represented classes, and I have a strong suspicion if you can choose, or you know which warzone you're going to get, people are going to be very picky about what classes they take, that is something I never had to worry about with arena. I find staring at a door, or sitting at a base because everyone else left, or even continually waiting and stunning someone over a fire pit (I close my eyes and shake my head at this often) to be very, very dull, I much prefer a struggle lasting a decent amount of time, a battle of wills, of tactics and strategy, of luring your opposition into a false sense of security. with no downtime. (waiting for the comparison to Druid+anything vs Druid+anything lasting forever, didn't play healer comps) My point in all of this is about the people saying "The deathmatch style is boring" well I find your objective based warzone boring, who's right? neither of us. we're both ignorant to the other persons point of view. Whats your reason behind not having it as an added extra, with no added gear, or any perks, in effect making it a less viable way to farm gear or rewards? whilst at the same time having this stated as such whilst informing the community it will be for fun and no balancing will be done around it? nothing. There's no reason not to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicornfive Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Sorry I am confused, why would players who do not like the arena system claim they do not want it when it is a 100% voluntary action? There is a smaller minority of people who love arena who love the fact that your fighting on a ladder system, that there is zero chance of anyone interrupting your fight and it all comes down to you and your partners skill. Yes of course some balancing would take place on classes all arena would do is put a spot like on the too powerful classes so Bioware may allow balance. World of Warcraft had massive diversity in there classes that caused huge balance issues constantly, Swtor has very very similar mechanics entwined into each class that would save tones of nerf/buff patchs. Things Swtor could do better to Arena type pvp -> Same rewards for Arena pvp as all other type battlegrounds? (same gain rate, so people who only like arena dont have to play huttball against/with bots and afks.) ->I always felt the competitive edge of different gear was what made Arena fun the guy with the legendary hit hard that how it was supposed to work. Swtor could simply auto buff stats to the same level (just like low lvls in bgs) so that regardless of your gear it actually did come down to skill. TLDR : Arenas were fun in wow, a lot of people used them. Why are there masses of people so against in a 100% voluntary action in a game? Yes, arenas were fun in wow...not 1s) what more fun being a warrior and sleeping on keybord while on root and cyclone ( 24/7) in tbc. You get the chance to attack the druid for 3 sec, then 3min running after him... 2nd) Lets remove all the burst from all classes, so they wont 2 shot ppl in arena....cause u know wow pvp is all about arena! -Pom pyro 3min mage .... gone -Soul fire big cast big dmg.....nerfed/gone -3 sec cast vanilla aimed shot......gone -over 9000 Death knight spells nerfed/gone (seriously, i was watchign a screenshot of my DK action bars, and i couldnt find 1 single spell that didnt ogot nerfed due to arena) -colossus smash...nerfed and a lot more that cant remember atm cause i havent played wow for to long. The point is, they ruined gameplay of a lot classes, or changed the completely (ret pala) only because of arena.... So dont mention that none is forcing us to play arena...and that is 100% voluntary action.... Cause once arena is in the game, every nerf and buff will be because of it.... EDIT : Also arenas were fun for wow players, only so they can inspect other players, and jump to conclusions and call them scrubs and useless in pvp only by seeing a rating. Or watching ppl with higher rating than them, and calling them again scrubs, cause now they think they were getting carried.... Edited February 3, 2012 by unicornfive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolbenito Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Ill just re-iterate my stance boiled down to it's most basic form: I prefer a form of PvP that measures more skills than just "who can kill better" or "who died first". Deathmatch is extremely limited, and showcases only a very narrow, limited skillset. The other statements about the elitism and the numbers game on the forums, i agree with. That isn't the point of arena. At low ratings, sure there is a lot of cheese and it can deecide matches. You aren't going to beat any high rated team without outplaying them to a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicornfive Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 That isn't the point of arena. At low ratings, sure there is a lot of cheese and it can deecide matches. You aren't going to beat any high rated team without outplaying them to a win. Really? How my not-so-good pvp player friend (around 1700 rating on every season, when start was 1500 then) managed to get gladiator on his pala in season 5 as DK-holy pala 2v2? Weird... Set up is the 99% in arena And to have many viable set ups, u need all your game balanced around arena.. no thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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