Patch 1.1.1 Balance ( Constructive Version)

[pelezz]

As most of you might have already seen the Operative advanced class will be receiving a nerf in the next patch. This thread is created first and foremost for constructive discussions over these changes and how they will affect our gameplay so that hopefully Bioware devs will be open to feedback from players.

 

Please do not post here if:

 

- you are a troll and have nothing better to do.

 

-you have nothing useful to say (e.g: "it's about time")

 

-you are going to QQ/whine.

 

As it stands here are the current patch notes from the PTR forums:

 

Imperial Agent

 

 

Operative

 

Acid Blade: Now provides 30% armor penetration while active.

Jarring Strike: This ability now knocks the target down for 1.5 seconds.

Hidden Strike: The damage output of this ability has been decreased by approximately 20% to control burst damage and because it was enabling significantly faster than intended kills in PvP.

 

That being said , it's not hard to see that the nerfs are a bit overdone, problematic being the fact that these changes will not only affect PvP , but PvE as well. It's hard to say without a combat log and proper testing yet but the Acid Blade change will most likely have a huge impact on PvE performance of the class.

 

While I do agree that our class was doing over the top burst in PvP and needed adjusting, a raw % nerf was not the answer to this (but hey apparently it's the only way devs know how to make balance changes).

 

First of all the Jarring Strike completely fills the resolve bar. With the reduction of the knockdown by 1/2 this change will completely destroy it's purpose. If it will remain this way make it so that resolve isn't completely filled leaving more opportunity for control on your target. The way it stands now , even after you knock your target down, a lot of times due to lag issues the player affected will change his initial position so that you cannot see where he actually landed , making it difficult to position yourself for the following backstab.

 

If it is decided that jarring strikes will still fill the resolve bar , than I propose that the talent be removed completely since the only thing it will do is gimp the opener. Instead of a knockdown make it provide a gap closer or a knockback ability. A lot of times in huttball I feel completely useless when my ball carrier is on a ramp with 3-4 enemy players on him because all I can do is throw a flashbang (which will most likely be trinketed by most anyway) while almost all other classes can knock them all off.

 

Operatives do not have a clear purpose right now. The incoming nerf (if it remains as it is) will make a lot of undergeared 50's happy but will destroy the advanced spec (and perhaps the class itself since snipers are having a real hard time in PvP as well). We have no utility whatsoever to compete with other classes. I'm not saying they should revert the nerfs , because HS damage with stim/buff stacking really made me sick at times and needed adjusting. Nerf it , but give us something in return because if these changes go live there will be no reason to DPS as an operative (even healing feels weak compared to other classes).

 

As mentioned above though , without a combat log it's hard to predict how big an impact changes will have , heck maybe we are worried for nothing ( unlikely though ) but still feedback is required and let's hope that Bioware takes notice and does something about this.

[Findulidas]

That being said , it's not hard to see that the nerfs are a bit overdone, problematic being the fact that these changes will not only affect PvP , but PvE as well. It's hard to say without a combat log and proper testing yet but the Acid Blade change will most likely have a huge impact on PvE performance of the class.

 

Thats an assumption, though likely may be true its not a fact that its so. Also perhaps we already had a dps higher than the average dpser. I have yet to see some numbers on the average dps on the classes or anything like that and until I do I refuse to accept people whining over a nerf.

[pelezz]

Yeah , I agree that having no combat log to test these kind of things out pretty much sucks and there's no way of telling who is doing how much , or the best way to max out your class.

[Torkepl]

Operatives do not have a clear purpose right now

 

What about healing spec?

[Kieran]

Give concealment a Shadowstep type gap closer with maybe a 25 second cooldown that will increase the damage of our next backstab or laceration by x%, and either snare the target for y seconds or increase our movement speed by 30% for z seconds. On top of this rework (and rename) Jarring Strike to root the target of our Shadowstep for 2 or 3 seconds. Yes, this is needed as even right now in 50 only brackets we can just be knocked back and kited endlessly if the player knows what they are doing. Edited January 21, 2012 by Kieran

[heiamll]

What about healing spec?

If you want to heal roll Sage/Sorc. You can actually spam heal since you dont have to worry about Energy diminishing returns mechanic and you have a shield that can save someone getting beat on while you heal them.

[Morticoccus]

I for one have wanted to try a respec to healer for a long time now, I just stayed with concealment because I like Dr. Lokin.

 

I guess it's time to respec and get my cool lil' hovering healing buddies after all...

[pelezz]

What about healing spec?

 

I won't deny that you have a point , but ah "oh well dps trees are bad so let's just all reroll healer" isn't exactly a solution , everything should be viable, having 1 viable out of 3 isn't exactly OK, (not even gonna bring lethality up). And to be quite fair operatives/scoundrels will have a hard time keeping up with sorcs/sages when it comes to healing. I don't know if you have played a healing OP/Scoundrel but if you do you will see that we rely on heavy casting times. That combined with rather low survivability doesn't exactly make for a good PvP healer.

[Torkepl]

I won't deny that you have a point , but ah "oh well dps trees are bad so let's just all reroll healer" isn't exactly a solution , everything should be viable, having 1 viable out of 3 isn't exactly OK, (not even gonna bring lethality up). And to be quite fair operatives/scoundrels will have a hard time keeping up with sorcs/sages when it comes to healing. I don't know if you have played a healing OP/Scoundrel but if you do you will see that we rely on heavy casting times. That combined with rather low survivability doesn't exactly make for a good PvP healer.

 

I will not say u are wrong because im not healer myself and also i wont deny that rerolling healer while dps tree is nerfed is just wrong.

 

But lets be honest. Let patch hit the game. You guys have not try ''new operative'' for 5 minutes but still You act like sky is falling on your heads.

Initial operative burst is way too high. It needs a nerf - too many of you guys deny that. It reminds me of Icytouch season5 Death Knights. Everyone knew it was OP (i even rolled icytouch dk myself for easy gladiator title) but there was so many players claiming perfect balance when nerf was about to hit live.

 

Is 1.1.1 nerf exacly the thing that will balance it out? I dont know. Time will show.

 

Sorry for my english. Its my 3rd language. Hope You get my point.

[pelezz]

I will not say u are wrong because im not healer myself and also i wont deny that rerolling healer while dps tree is nerfed is just wrong.

 

But lets be honest. Let patch hit the game. You guys have not try ''new operative'' for 5 minutes but still You act like sky is falling on your heads.

Initial operative burst is way too high. It needs a nerf - too many of you guys deny that. It reminds me of Icytouch season5 Death Knights. Everyone knew it was OP (i even rolled icytouch dk myself for easy gladiator title) but there was so many players claiming perfect balance when nerf was about to hit live.

 

Is 1.1.1 nerf exacly the thing that will balance it out? I dont know. Time will show.

 

Sorry for my english. Its my 3rd language. Hope You get my point.

 

If you read my original post you will see that I'm not exactly crying , I admitted and always have that Hidden Strike burst was too much , combined with a stun it was rather class breaking. But problem with the class is that burst is all they gave us , and they gave us too much of it. A raw % nerf to damage needs to be compensated in things that we lack which is utility.

 

It's true that we don't know for sure how it will affect us, no combat log means no testing but we can't blindly rely on Bioware , it's obvious by the way they handle things that they are not in complete control of the situation. At first glance , things are looking pretty grim.

[Torkepl]

If you read my original post you will see that I'm not exactly crying , I admitted and always have that Hidden Strike burst was too much , combined with a stun it was rather class breaking. But problem with the class is that burst is all they gave us , and they gave us too much of it. A raw % nerf to damage needs to be compensated in things that we lack which is utility.

 

It's true that we don't know for sure how it will affect us, no combat log means no testing but we can't blindly rely on Bioware , it's obvious by the way they handle things that they are not in complete control of the situation. At first glance , things are looking pretty grim.

 

I read my previous post again and it was missleading. I m not saying You re the one crying/whining. I mean other ops. Just look at first page of Your class forums or PvP forums.

[Morticoccus]

I will not say u are wrong because im not healer myself and also i wont deny that rerolling healer while dps tree is nerfed is just wrong.

 

But lets be honest. Let patch hit the game. You guys have not try ''new operative'' for 5 minutes but still You act like sky is falling on your heads.

Initial operative burst is way too high. It needs a nerf - too many of you guys deny that. It reminds me of Icytouch season5 Death Knights. Everyone knew it was OP (i even rolled icytouch dk myself for easy gladiator title) but there was so many players claiming perfect balance when nerf was about to hit live.

 

Is 1.1.1 nerf exacly the thing that will balance it out? I dont know. Time will show.

 

Sorry for my english. Its my 3rd language. Hope You get my point.

 

It went so well for "New Pepsi"and "New Coke"...

[Torkepl]

It went so well for "New Pepsi"and "New Coke"...

 

Actually Coke Zero or Cherry Coke is awesome.

 

Also imagine ''old Coke'' beign soooo tasty it killed You even before You finish your first sip? I bet they would nerf taste too

Edited January 21, 2012 by Torkepl

[pelezz]

Give concealment a Shadowstep type gap closer with maybe a 25 second cooldown that will increase the damage of our next backstab or laceration by x%, and either snare the target for y seconds or increase our movement speed by 30% for z seconds. On top of this rework (and rename) Jarring Strike to root the target of our Shadowstep for 2 or 3 seconds. Yes, this is needed as even right now in 50 only brackets we can just be knocked back and kited endlessly if the player knows what they are doing.

 

Sorry just noticed your post.

 

Agreed a gap closer type ability would fix a lot of issues combined with a small buff to our out of stealth dps abilities (lacerate/backstab). Remove Jarring strikes completely as 1.5 sec stun with full resolve bar is just plain crap and it can't be considered a tier 6 talent (2 points even).

 

The prospect of shadow step type ability is very appealing although I would remove the root effect since we already have one (hardly) but over time I keep finding a lot of uses for severe tendon , it's not exactly GREAT but it isn't bad either.

 

Re-design Jarring Strike to increase Backstab/Lacerate damage by X% amount for a X second period after unstealthing or using HS.

 

With this in mind operatives will have less burst while increasing out of stealth damage and utility.

[tacito]

Yeah, Jarring Strike with a 1,5s knockdown isn't too useful, especially for two talent points. Seeing how Hidden Strike is affected by global cooldown, that's 1 ability, in a best case scenario. If it fills the resolve bar, taking Jarring Strike would actually HURT our ability to control someone, because debilitate lasts much longer. If it doesn't, we'll just follow it up with Debilitate, effectively performing a stun LONGER than before.

Personally, I think a talent like the ones for sleep dart or flash grenade (lowers damage or accuracy by a significant amount for some seconds) would help us and anyone else much more at this point. Or a knockback immunity for X seconds after using hidden strike.

 

Another thing I don't understand: They have different enemy classes, from weak to boss. Why not just have Jarring Strike and Acid Blade behave differently when used against players? The code is there, certainly. But well, gonna wait and see.

[SWToRBurns]

PTR notes aren't set in stone, nor are they complete. There is 0 info on resolve with the change to Jarring Strike, but the changes to our burst are very disturbing. Without buff stacking and full expertise from gear NO CONCEALMENT OPERATIVE can kill anyone in a level 50 WZ in the time alotted from Jarring Strikes, not even our mirror.

 

Not being geared at all (fresh 50, got rly lucky and got a champ gun token from my 3 win daily last night) and going into lvl 50 WZ's I get trashed by my own team, a lot.

 

"No expertise? Scrub, trash, **** our WZ, we lose, you suck, the click is all 15% expertise, **** noob" etc...

 

I feel like I'm a hunter in WoW all over again, easiest to kill, hardest to kill anyone else.

 

As it stands now when I HS a target it's immediately trinketed, my enemy has a full resolve bar, and im getting spammed by rocks/conal lightining from the 3 sages/troopers that are in every WZ i do. Teams/guilds are starting to roll premade WZ and any time I'm out of stealth I might as well have a giant sign on my head saying "HAY GUYZ, FREE VALOR HERE HERP DERP"

 

The people that came here crying that tanks were getting 3 shotted didn't understand that stacking WZ adrenal/Biochem items/Buff box, made our initial burst the insanity that it was (when fully geared). If I'm lucky and I have a buff rolling I can maybe, maybe take out a scoundrel/sniper with 5-6 globals.

Healers? LOL12secinterruptthatdoesntworkwhenresolveisfull

 

Tanks? LOLIGETGUARDEDFROMMYDPSBUDDYCAUSETROOPERSALWAYSROLLINFOURS.

 

I'm gonna love spamming WZs to get geared, thanks for adopting the BC gearing model/spamming dailies to get rakata ears/implants/patron armoring 22 with more endurance than cunning. Maybe I'll just become a pro huttballer on my powertech, I can tank entire teams with her, and no one QQs.

Edited January 21, 2012 by SWToRBurns

[thecoffeecup]

Actually Coke Zero or Cherry Coke is awesome.

 

Also imagine ''old Coke'' beign soooo tasty it killed You even before You finish your first sip? I bet they would nerf taste too

 

Coke Zero is worse than Coca Cola Light. Cherry Coke however is great.

 

As for constructive criticism:

 

Remove Jarring Strike entirely. Put in another PvP talent that buffs operatives out of stealth. Revert the damage changes. If you don't want to revert both, just pick the Acid Blade change because it's by far the worst change for PvE.

[ArchAUstin]

50 scoundrel here, and i completely agree that our burst needed to be nerfed however.

 

All we do is burst so we need something else... We need some mechanic that gives us a purpose for pvp now.

 

As it stands with 1.1.1 we just run around melee'ing like chickens with our heads cutoff,

 

No defense, our 1.5 second stun FILLS the resolve bar(really....?), No mobility.

 

Literally we will just be running around smacking people till someone slows us or targets us and we die.

 

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS.

 

Nerf shootfirst by 30%, but make our stun out of stealth last 4 seconds... something worthy of filling the resolve bar.

 

Make shootfirst not fill the resolve bar.

 

Leave us without burst and terrible control(patch 1.1.1), but give us some mobility and defense?

 

I personally don't want to be OP, but as of 1.1.1 there isn't any reason what so ever to take a scoundrel/operative for rated WZ's over a shadow, we have no use anymore.

[Shoogli]

*ALSO* :

 

I never tried to Reverse-engineer knives since am on republic side, but I can tell you that there are NO blue/purple crafted shotguns (for now).

 

We're one of the 2 ACs that have subpar off-hands (the other being shadows/assassins that want to spec tanks and don't have crafted shields at all while every other tanks can have them).

 

Most classes and ACs have access to blue and purple crafted offhands, be it secondary pistol for gunslingers, focii for force users, shields for most tanks, etc... Scoundrels, and probably Operatives too I guess, don't have access to proper crafted off-hands.

 

I don't see how is that difficult to fix since it would only be database entries to fill by some devs. I guess...

 

[BDalton]

I'm rolling an operative because I like the whole stealth assassin gameplay style. I hope it doesn't get broke by the time I reach endgame. It certainly seems devastating based on what I'm reading from our lev 50 brethren.

[pelezz]

50 scoundrel here, and i completely agree that our burst needed to be nerfed however.

 

All we do is burst so we need something else... We need some mechanic that gives us a purpose for pvp now.

 

As it stands with 1.1.1 we just run around melee'ing like chickens with our heads cutoff,

 

No defense, our 1.5 second stun FILLS the resolve bar(really....?), No mobility.

 

Literally we will just be running around smacking people till someone slows us or targets us and we die.

 

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS.

 

Nerf shootfirst by 30%, but make our stun out of stealth last 4 seconds... something worthy of filling the resolve bar.

 

Make shootfirst not fill the resolve bar.

 

Leave us without burst and terrible control(patch 1.1.1), but give us some mobility and defense?

 

I personally don't want to be OP, but as of 1.1.1 there isn't any reason what so ever to take a scoundrel/operative for rated WZ's over a shadow, we have no use anymore.

 

You are right indeed if these changes go live it will most likely be a very nasty blow to ops/scoundrels, unfortunately we can't be sure how the changes will affect us , from what I understand you need to level a char from 1-50 on the PTR since there are no pre-made chars.

 

Without level 50 and full (or part) pvp gear we don't know anything for certain so Bioware put up PTR's for nothing.

 

Also for the people saying "ops/scoundrels 3 shot tanks" , seriously get a grip. That happened due to adrenal and expertise buff stacking. I guarantee you 100% that there is no way you can drop a decently geared tank that fast. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if you could drop him at all.

 

That being said Jarred Strike/scoundrel counterpart definitely need to go if they stay as it is. It would be counterproductive to knock someone down for 1.5 seconds with a full resolve bar. In that case you can just skip the talent completely (note that it requires 2 points and is tier 6 talent) , use HS and follow it up with a full duration debilitate.

[Shwoop]

I'm gonna drop my post here as well mainly because it seems to be more constructive, I'm seeing a few posts for abilities such as WoW's Shadowstep which is something I had consider as well but to be honest I don't have a problem with staying on a ranged target, and if I do I often know when to cut my losses and reset the fight, they usually have to use several cooldowns to make their escape as well, so it makes our next engagement even further in my favor. So anyway, that's my take on that and here's my large post theorizing what we are capable of now and where we may stand later in both PVE and PVP.

 

 

I don't make posts very often but when I do.....

 

So anyway, let's take a step back here. Many people are concerned that a 20% damage reduction to Hidden Strike will affect PVE. Let's see take a breath and see what's really happening. The only PVE that matters is the raiding experience. You will use this ability 3 to 4 times during a boss encounter. This will likely be a reduction of less than 1% of your overall damage done to the boss. The reduction of 50% armor penetration to 30% armor penetration however, will likely impact Concealment DPS far more than intended. This will affect the bulk of our attacks and probably put us behind other classes, most of which have considerable sustained DPS.

 

Conclusion; The nerf to Hidden Strike is fine, the Acid Blade nerf may hurt PVE more than they expected. We really need some combat logs to help us understand our DPS situation relative to other classes, to be honest I haven't done much PVE and from what I've seen it doesn't look like we're ahead.

 

Now we need to see what's happening in the PVP environment. 2 changes are affecting us. 1 is our ability to deal alot of damage during a 3 second control period that fills the enemy resolve bar. 2 is the amount of damage we're dealing during that 3 second window. Undeniably we will spend a lot of time in PVP moving from one opponent to the other in stealth and thus achieving many Hidden Strikes. So we will see a loss in damage here that will affect us a great deal. A way for us to compensate will be to either do appropriate damage in line with other classes out of stealth, or to have control over our opponents. Should a 1.5 stun fill the enemy resolve bar things will get a little dicey but still fully manageable. The reduction in Acid Blade with respect to PVP is not going to impact us as much as we'd like to think. Looking at the microcosm of a 1v1 situation in which I find myself in 9 times out of 10 we're probably going to see fights go from 7 or 8 attacks to 10 or 11 attacks to kill an opponent. It's all relative, the more attacks it took in the first place to kill that player, the slightly more will be required post 1.1.1 when compared to the players that typically took fewers attacks to begin with. In all seriousness this is fully manageable and will require more control over our opponents on our part. Control which we do possess.

 

I'd like to say that from my personal experience as Concealment, which has been from rank 25 valor to rank 55 valor, I find that our damage is quite high with respect to other classes when you consider that our opening damage is beyond the enemies control. What I mean by this is that they don't see it coming and cannot take necessary steps to mitigate some of the damage before it occurs. You may say that a Mercenary does massive upfront damage but consider that you can avoid it, you see them coming (or at least you should) and as a result can take the necessary steps to prepare for them, whether it be breaking LOS, applying your shield, etc,...

 

I'd also like to say that from my experience Concealment operatives when played carefully are very difficult to control or kill. We have a number of tools at our disposal with which we can control another player or mitigate damage/control. We can remove tech and physical effects, we have a 1 min evasion, a 45 second shield, a 10m slow that applies a snare, a 1min aoe stun that appears to ignore resolve, a 30 sec stun, and vanish on a 2 min CD. With all this control and mitigation we have we are still able to get the opening attack the majority of the time.

 

TL ; DR

 

So in short it appears that the slight nerf to our opening control and damage should not be fully detrimental to our ability to continue to win our 1v1 fights over ranged targets, or any targets that decide to be a lone wolf. We have a wide range of tools at our disposal, anywhere from heals, to CC effects, to ranged attacks during a clutch moment. None of which on their own are entirely powerful but when combined and coordinated properly result in a very strong PVP class. Additionally the damage reduction to the PVE raiding experience with respect to Hidden Strike is null, however with respect to Acid Blade it may result in fewer Concealment Operatives being brought in, again it would be very nice to have combat logs, I suspect that Lethatlity would be the prime choice for PVE even as it is now.

[pelezz]

I'm gonna drop my post here as well mainly because it seems to be more constructive, I'm seeing a few posts for abilities such as WoW's Shadowstep which is something I had consider as well but to be honest I don't have a problem with staying on a ranged target, and if I do I often know when to cut my losses and reset the fight, they usually have to use several cooldowns to make their escape as well, so it makes our next engagement even further in my favor. So anyway, that's my take on that and here's my large post theorizing what we are capable of now and where we may stand later in both PVE and PVP.

 

 

I don't make posts very often but when I do.....

 

So anyway, let's take a step back here. Many people are concerned that a 20% damage reduction to Hidden Strike will affect PVE. Let's see take a breath and see what's really happening. The only PVE that matters is the raiding experience. You will use this ability 3 to 4 times during a boss encounter. This will likely be a reduction of less than 1% of your overall damage done to the boss. The reduction of 50% armor penetration to 30% armor penetration however, will likely impact Concealment DPS far more than intended. This will affect the bulk of our attacks and probably put us behind other classes, most of which have considerable sustained DPS.

 

Conclusion; The nerf to Hidden Strike is fine, the Acid Blade nerf may hurt PVE more than they expected. We really need some combat logs to help us understand our DPS situation relative to other classes, to be honest I haven't done much PVE and from what I've seen it doesn't look like we're ahead.

 

Now we need to see what's happening in the PVP environment. 2 changes are affecting us. 1 is our ability to deal alot of damage during a 3 second control period that fills the enemy resolve bar. 2 is the amount of damage we're dealing during that 3 second window. Undeniably we will spend a lot of time in PVP moving from one opponent to the other in stealth and thus achieving many Hidden Strikes. So we will see a loss in damage here that will affect us a great deal. A way for us to compensate will be to either do appropriate damage in line with other classes out of stealth, or to have control over our opponents. Should a 1.5 stun fill the enemy resolve bar things will get a little dicey but still fully manageable. The reduction in Acid Blade with respect to PVP is not going to impact us as much as we'd like to think. Looking at the microcosm of a 1v1 situation in which I find myself in 9 times out of 10 we're probably going to see fights go from 7 or 8 attacks to 10 or 11 attacks to kill an opponent. It's all relative, the more attacks it took in the first place to kill that player, the slightly more will be required post 1.1.1 when compared to the players that typically took fewers attacks to begin with. In all seriousness this is fully manageable and will require more control over our opponents on our part. Control which we do possess.

 

I'd like to say that from my personal experience as Concealment, which has been from rank 25 valor to rank 55 valor, I find that our damage is quite high with respect to other classes when you consider that our opening damage is beyond the enemies control. What I mean by this is that they don't see it coming and cannot take necessary steps to mitigate some of the damage before it occurs. You may say that a Mercenary does massive upfront damage but consider that you can avoid it, you see them coming (or at least you should) and as a result can take the necessary steps to prepare for them, whether it be breaking LOS, applying your shield, etc,...

 

I'd also like to say that from my experience Concealment operatives when played carefully are very difficult to control or kill. We have a number of tools at our disposal with which we can control another player or mitigate damage/control. We can remove tech and physical effects, we have a 1 min evasion, a 45 second shield, a 10m slow that applies a snare, a 1min aoe stun that appears to ignore resolve, a 30 sec stun, and vanish on a 2 min CD. With all this control and mitigation we have we are still able to get the opening attack the majority of the time.

 

TL ; DR

 

So in short it appears that the slight nerf to our opening control and damage should not be fully detrimental to our ability to continue to win our 1v1 fights over ranged targets, or any targets that decide to be a lone wolf. We have a wide range of tools at our disposal, anywhere from heals, to CC effects, to ranged attacks during a clutch moment. None of which on their own are entirely powerful but when combined and coordinated properly result in a very strong PVP class. Additionally the damage reduction to the PVE raiding experience with respect to Hidden Strike is null, however with respect to Acid Blade it may result in fewer Concealment Operatives being brought in, again it would be very nice to have combat logs, I suspect that Lethatlity would be the prime choice for PVE even as it is now.

 

I'll quote you on this and thank you for taking your time to post this.

 

I'll agree with you that the nerf to hidden strike is justified, however combined with the jarred strike reduction it will render this talent useless. It doesn't make sense to throw the 2 points in there in favor of another talent , when you could just use debilitate instead.Also note the lag issue I keep talking about , and I'm sure it doesn't only happen to me. Sometimes you open on a moving target and upon reaching the ground he falls somewhere different than expected , even though animation shows him in the place where you activated your skill , hence forcing you to circle around him in order to backstab. Something should be done about Jarred Strike because if these changes go live as they are it will be rendered completely useless.

 

Now there's also the matter of PvE. Like you said , I'm pretty sure Concealment OP's are having a hard time sustaining damage on boss fights , the 20% nerf to acid blade will only take this to the point where it won't be a viable PvE spec.

 

But as you also stated , without a combat log and proper internal testing all we can do is throw assumptions. Our class is in Bioware's hands , but I'm a bit worried since by the way they are treating things I don't think they are very sure about what they are doing.

[Shwoop]

But as you also stated , without a combat log and proper internal testing all we can do is throw assumptions. Our class is in Bioware's hands , but I'm a bit worried since by the way they are treating things I don't think they are very sure about what they are doing.

 

WoW is a great example of community driven changes and how the community can have a positive effect on a game when the ability to test the game is available.

 

I hope BioWare will return the combat logs sooner than later. The longer they delay it the worse it gets for them.

 

To touch more on the subject of Jarring Strike I'd like to say that right now if a 2 point talent grants us a 1.5 second stun at the cost of a full resolve it's likely not worth it but there are other talents that I can then take over Jarring Strike. However, I will still experiment with Jarring Strike even if it applies a full resolve bar given that I can control the fight.

 

More often than not I'm using Debilitate as a means to ;

A. Heal myself

B. Chain CC to stop a healer

C. Mitigate damage ie, when someone pops a damage CD I will stun them, or

D. To try to get out of combat and re-engage at a later time

 

There's a lot of willy nilly misuse of debilitate in an attempt to burn someone a little faster during a stun. I find that alot of these players will do so every time without thinking of the long term fight in their current 1v1.

 

Additionally I would like to say, that when going up against very geared opponents that you are not simply killing within 3 GCD's, that operatives have a higher skill cap in order to play it well. Certainly there is a difference between playing well and playing poorly for all classes but it feels as though there is not as much forgiveness for an operative when going up against a geared opponent. It also seems that warriors are in the same boat here, they can often have a tough time with players when they misuse their abilities or do not understand their opponents abilities or capability.

 

In sum, I think from a PvP perspective we'll be fine but I am skeptical about where Concealment will stand in PvE, although as I've said earlier it seems as though Lethality would be the choice of PvE. Lethality is also abysmal in PvP, or at least those that I've seen.

[Qishari]

Hi all,

 

We know that this is something the Operative Imperial Agents feel strongly about right now and we would like to make sure that feedback regarding it isn't lost or diluted among many threads. So, we ask that you please continue your discussion and feedback regarding the changes in 1.1.1 to our ongoing thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=212330