Pridain Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 GENERALLY I'd agree, but this game breaks every rule of PVP I've ever known, so I'm not sure what is considered working as intended or truly broken. Who'd of thought that putting level 50s in pvp gear with full talents and experience playing vs level 10s would have been a good idea... but they did... Valid point. PvP WZs sucked there for a while. Yet, now that you know it wasn't meant to be an intended feature, you are still against them rolling Valor back for those that gained it unfairly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gankatron Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) camping enemy teams base and killing there turret so they couldnt defend are to plae. It seems that the turrets are meant to be a capturable objective (although I personally haven't seen it done) given that there is a yellow triangle with a green dot in the middle of it on the minimap, so I still have a hard time blaming players for taking and holding onto a PvP objective defined by BioWare. So when should the capping of an objective end if there isn't a mechanism to reset the scenario and moreover players are rewarded for holding objectives? What happens when players respawn in the immediate vicinity right after having been killed defending that objective point in an open world PvP environment? Does one ignore them like they aren't combatants? What happens if the try to retake the turret objective? I admit the whole open world Ilum PvP scenario has been a large question mark in my mind from the beginning. I would go out to places on the map with yellow triangles and green dots, but not be able to interact with anything. The first time it made any sense was after the recent patch that encouraged players to actually PvP instead of just sit around watching each other trade objectives. I believe that all of the problems that occurred in Ilum are derived from BioWare’s lack of foresight. Create a new patch that rewards players for holding objectives, mark an objective with a yellow triangle in the opposition’s base, place the opposition’s respawn point in close proximity to the aforementioned objective, and then give high amounts of valor for fighting at that location, now just sit back and watch what happens on the first day of this new patch. Can anyone really be surprised how it played out? No players sat up the night before and figured out ways to exploit this patch, they just showed up and started to finally PvP. At some point people started to realize that they were getting substantially rewarded for holding the base objective point. Should they have been expected to stop Pvp’ing en masse at that point? I think that this is where theoretical and practical come into conflict. All banking analogies aside, I fully expect that players who are put into a new PvP environment, shown which objectives to hold, and subsequently rewarded lavishly for holding these objectives will continue to do so until forced to do otherwise. If BioWare were to crete a new instanced warzone and you realize that after playing it for a few hours by winning you are getting 10x more valor than the other warzones, are you going to stop playing or are you going to keep going and wait for BioWare to state that it isn't working as intended? I think that people need to define what exactly they felt was the exploitive action, namely that people were holding down (“camping”) an objective point for hours on end in an open world PvP environment not balanced for faction numbers, or that they were receiving too much valor during the process; in either case both were defined by BioWare. In the end the players showed up to win, got an advantage without hacking, and held to it. As I said before BioWare should feel completely righteous to go back and adjust down the amount of valor that was provided if they feel it wasn’t working as intended, moreover I feel that it is their responsibility to do so for the sake of fairness and balance; in the same vein no player should complain about having the valor readjusted if it was clearly a mistake on BioWare’s part (any more than if they had erroneously coded a factor of 10 off). Labeling these players as exploiters for playing the game under the imbalanced environment and reward mechanics that BioWare created is irresponsible on BioWare’s part. Edited January 22, 2012 by gankatron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sildrin Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Valid point. PvP WZs sucked there for a while. Yet, now that you know it wasn't meant to be an intended feature, you are still against them rolling Valor back for those that gained it unfairly? I am, because at the time the players didn't know without a SHADOW of a doubt that they were "exploiting" according to BioWare, because as it's been said, those turrets were destructable before the patch. If BioWare absolutely feels they have to roll back valor, so be it, but punishing anyone's account is absolutely dead wrong -- and I don't even have a 50, I just know B.S. when I smell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEnsign Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Keep telling yourself that when you become banned permanently from the game. Want to put $10,000 on that Princess? No, I'm totally serious. 10,000 says Bioware doesn't ban the person you're trolling from the game for playing as "Designed". Unless that is you can provide legit patch notes from Bioware telling what is and what is not intended valor gain. Perhaps a chart, cliffnotes, memo on a napkin, anything? Nope? Seriously, PM me and I can set up a legal transaction where we both put the funds in and when Bioware suspends the person you trolled, it's all yours. Easy peasy huh? This is nothing but a PR stunt for Bioware. They're getting bad, bad press cause of their mistake and are not run by CEOs competent enough to man up and admit it and now to appease the whiners, the release this presser. Good luck finding anyone banned for PvPing the game "as designed". Not even going to address the "bank" simpletons as that illogical comparison is based on something society has laws written for and this is a video game where the developer not once ever said what they consider is acceptable valor gain or stated what the "new" rules of Ilium are. I suppose all of you righteous forum jockeys have note from the Devs stating what is intended and what is not? Nope? Really? But you know this to be true how? Wait, some one is about to tell me I've not played many MMOs PS. Play Republic level 47 Gunslinger so no need for the irrelevant forum jockeys to get all foamy at the mouth at a possible chance at a whitty reply to some one who cares little for their existence. Sorry to ruin your day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sildrin Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Want to put $10,000 on that Princess? Don't be silly... kids don't have $10,000! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeBohm Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Want to put $10,000 on that Princess? No, I'm totally serious. 10,000 says Bioware doesn't ban the person you're trolling from the game for playing as "Designed". Unless that is you can provide legit patch notes from Bioware telling what is and what is not intended valor gain. Perhaps a chart, cliffnotes, memo on a napkin, anything? Nope? Seriously, PM me and I can set up a legal transaction where we both put the funds in and when Bioware suspends the person you trolled, it's all yours. Easy peasy huh? This is nothing but a PR stunt for Bioware. They're getting bad, bad press cause of their mistake and are not run by CEOs competent enough to man up and admit it and now to appease the whiners, the release this presser. Good luck finding anyone banned for PvPing the game "as designed". Not even going to address the "bank" simpletons as that illogical comparison is based on something society has laws written for and this is a video game where the developer not once ever said what they consider is acceptable valor gain or stated what the "new" rules of Ilium are. I suppose all of you righteous forum jockeys have note from the Devs stating what is intended and what is not? Nope? Really? But you know this to be true how? Wait, some one is about to tell me I've not played many MMOs PS. Play Republic level 47 Gunslinger so no need for the irrelevant forum jockeys to get all foamy at the mouth at a possible chance at a whitty reply to some one who cares little for their existence. Sorry to ruin your day. I'll get in on the action that I don't get banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihyln Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 "We found out that PvP in ilum wasnt working as intended?" Still isnt. And the new invisible wall of doom (where u get instantly killed when entering rep base) is just a huge setback. I just dont get how they can fail so much at this open laggy wpvp zone. What else is there to do, o just stand at the fleets doing nothing. All I do these days is just log on for some dailies and then I log off again. GW2 next! They can, they have hired Mythic devs from the Warhammer debacle. I didn't catch this tidbit until now and I've completely lost faith in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sildrin Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 they can, they have hired mythic devs from the warhammer debacle. I didn't catch this tidbit until now and i've completely lost faith in this game. qft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keta Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 They can, they have hired Mythic devs from the Warhammer debacle. I didn't catch this tidbit until now and I've completely lost faith in this game. Mythic was involved in designing the pvp in this game from way back. The current state of pvp may reflect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pridain Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I am, because at the time the players didn't know without a SHADOW of a doubt that they were "exploiting" according to BioWare, because as it's been said, those turrets were destructable before the patch. If BioWare absolutely feels they have to roll back valor, so be it, but punishing anyone's account is absolutely dead wrong -- and I don't even have a 50, I just know B.S. when I smell it. Well, after reading Gank's post (lol at the appropriate name considering the situation), among others, I think I tend to agree with you now. I suppose at least I can admit my faults - in that I spoke without knowing exactly what PvP on Ilum was. And under the assumption that there were objectives on the planet BEFORE the patch. It somewhat seems like more of a misunderstanding if they really did set an objective over the spawn points. Basically like telling people to go blow that turret up, then penalizing them for following the instructions. So, if that is indeed the case, I've changed my mind. At least I can admit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipain Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Wrong. You can still camp the exit points of the home base. So you can still do the "exploit" that you people are complaining about. Prior to the patch you could have left your base. Nothing was fixed. They just moved the campzone 10 feet. Wrong. its nothing compared the last patch, NOTHING now you can spawn and move to the Taxi NPC and fly to another place.. you couldnt do that before.. Pre-patch you could AOE the spot people spawned from and instant kill.. seems like your trying to defend yourself from using exploit. Camping GY was for real fixed. Ilum though, have never proberly worked thanks to imbalance in Rep vs. imp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) They won't be. *****censored reported comment*********. They are coming.... and I can just about assure you I am older than you so keep your pathetic insults to yourself. Edited January 22, 2012 by Kourage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipain Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 IkeBohm You are seriously afriad of getting banned. no matter what it was a **** up by BW i agree, and everyone knew that it was buggy and deffi would get changed.. Then we agree, it was a bug from biowares side, it got exploited by the players.. ergo bug exploit. A rollback should DEFFI happen, you gaining 3 ranks from standing there aoe is ****ed up and should get fixed. you should deffi get a rollback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeBohm Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Wrong. its nothing compared the last patch, NOTHING now you can spawn and move to the Taxi NPC and fly to another place.. you couldnt do that before.. Pre-patch you could AOE the spot people spawned from and instant kill.. seems like your trying to defend yourself from using exploit. Camping GY was for real fixed. Ilum though, have never proberly worked thanks to imbalance in Rep vs. imp Nothing about what you said it correct. When you fly to Ilum you have a choice to go the the republic base or the area far north of it next to the imperial base. If you are republic. That is a choice you get from the safe area on the map. The second you chose to go to the republic base is the second you were allowed to be legitimately killed. You yourself chose to PvP you yourself put yourself in the PvP fray. Nothing and I mean nothing about this was an exploit. Nothing. The turrets were allowed to be destroyed at launch so Bioware saying there was an error that allowed the turrets to be destroyed is nonsense. Its just them blaming the players and not their development team. Go ahead and sit down now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeBohm Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) IkeBohm You are seriously afriad of getting banned. no matter what it was a **** up by BW i agree, and everyone knew that it was buggy and deffi would get changed.. Then we agree, it was a bug from biowares side, it got exploited by the players.. ergo bug exploit. A rollback should DEFFI happen, you gaining 3 ranks from standing there aoe is ****ed up and should get fixed. you should deffi get a rollback. We had to do way more than AOE we were competing against another full ops group competing for the kills and we were avoiding turret fire. So again I say this is not an exploit this is bad design by Bioware. If they want to base to be such a safe zone. Put one of those fancy gates that locks opposite factions out of an area and if they come out and get in combat they are in trouble if they want to stand on the other side of the fence and throw sticks that is something that they can do. There was nothing there preventing this, so it was not an exploit. It is called base ra.p.e and it happens everyday on every game We were also doing this at 6 fps because of the poor optimization of this game. Edited January 22, 2012 by IkeBohm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picasso Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Hi Jeff, Please test your patches before you patch to detect if there will be any unintended consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sildrin Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 They are coming.... and I can just about assure you I am older than you so keep your pathetic insults to yourself. No more pathetic than your doom-and-gloom attitude, hoping other people who were simply playing within the design of the game get in trouble - you're pathetic. And you can just about assure me, eh, well how about we put a wager on this. If they announce that they've suspended people, you come find me and we'll settle up. If however they do not announce that, you come find me and we'll settle up. Either way I'll be hearing from you soon kiddo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sildrin Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 IkeBohm You are seriously afriad of getting banned. no matter what it was a **** up by BW i agree, and everyone knew that it was buggy and deffi would get changed.. Then we agree, it was a bug from biowares side, it got exploited by the players.. ergo bug exploit. A rollback should DEFFI happen, you gaining 3 ranks from standing there aoe is ****ed up and should get fixed. you should deffi get a rollback. You just mad you got farmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gankatron Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 The turrets were allowed to be destroyed at launch so Bioware saying there was an error that allowed the turrets to be destroyed is nonsense. Its just them blaming the players and not their development team. He is correct about this. The turrets had a defined hit point value. The first time I targeted one and saw this to be true was the first time I started to think about what approachs my guildies might try to take it down. This didn't occur to me to be an exploit any more than planning on how to take down a world boss. Things that display hit points can be killed, and in a video game players are going to attempt to do so. Now I have to wonder if we organize a multi-guild outting to take down a Pub base on another world, will that also be considered an exploit or griefing on our PvP server? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnQ Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Good news cause that BS was really annoying! First of all, I don't see how they didn't see this coming. They put sooooo much emphasis on the Imperials and the "strength" of the Sith in their marketing that its no wonder this game is the most horribly un-balanced game ive ever played. Every single emo teen and every Eric Cartman of the world went Sith! They need to consider marketing some interesting stuff to the Republic to drum up "recruitment" to that faction if they want to see this game continue for years to come. That or focus soley on PvE and completely abandon PvP because the way it is now its broken. Its like they gave the team with the numerical advantage all the game advantages aswell. The Sith have all the rated R ability's while the Republic has PG-13! Since when does a cloth wearing sorc have more "survivability" than a heavy armor wearer! Lets make the Glass cannon an Iron cannon huh! Anyhow, on Ilum that numerical advantage became very evident and im hoping that the developers of this game take a look at the mirror and understand that they brought this on themselves. The dark side always outnumbers the light in any multi-player video game ive ever played. There was no need for the heavy marketing to that faction yet they did anyway ensuring the game went from a normal 40-60 skew to an 80-20 one! You see theres a perfectly good psychological reason why most players gravitate to the dark-side. A) most games have you playing the "hero" it wasnt until GTA that people got to play the "villain"! B) Most gamers are teens who still live under someone elses roof and rules. The Jedi code and all other morale obligations that are in-herent with the light side are distastefull to a rebelious teen. With them being the "meat" of gamers I would say that no less than 95% of all emo teens go to the same side which is enough to tip the scales on its own. Then throw in the heavy Sith marketing which suggests at every step that in order for the republic to eak out a victory they must endure heavy sacrifice whilst the Sith are an unstoppable wrecking ball cutting their way un-hindered through the galaxy! Add these things and voila we have the most horribly un-balanced game I have ever played! Not to mention I can sense a bit of Sith favoritism in the design of the game. GJ you made one side better than the other....great....way to go.....feel good about yourselves....SmDh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnQ Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) The reason this is an issue is more than all that, its simply because Ilum was a wake up call to the Devs who for some reason believed that the game was going to be balanced despite the heavy Sith marketing and natural tendencies of young gamers to go to the dak-side. Now they are trying to fix their blunder. "Gee maybe we should have put out one or two pre-launch video's celebrating the "strength" of the Republic", maybe just maybe that wouldve helped a little! I dont think anyone could be banned for what happened, but I do think they should be stripped of their valor and gear. You see, regardless of whether its "legal" or not they are trying to make a game that will last. This is a game with 2 sides. Any game between two opposing factions that loses its competitive edge (one side grossly outweighs the other) will die a slow miserable death. So keep flooding one side ppl and you will not have a game to play shortly! YOU are the reason for this and YOU can change it. Consider rolling Republic players! Edited January 22, 2012 by Meluna rude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gphalen Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Lets be honest..less then 30 days after release. and so far heres the biggest issues in game... SOLO is how most people enjoy leveling their toons. I did 8 85s in wow 8 gladiator pvp ranked toons over 7 years, no im not a slow leveler i enjoy my toons i like to gear then raid and pvp the hell out of them! In TOR social is to big a component in the game..i dont mind a heroic here and there. However when 70% of all the quests im finding since leaving level 0-15 areas are Heroic 2-4+ really?..So not only do i have to put the annoying trolls on ignore now i have to beg them to group to finish an area..not cool at all! The pvp in Tor is ****..no other word fits..Civil war im getting kicked as a deserter before the speeders reappear to leave the start area..Huttball im getting kicked as a deserter before i even make the start area.. Over all id give the pvp in tor a 1 for originality and thats it. the concept was original cap n hold 3 bases or 2 of 3 bases not so original Arathi, gelineas etc etc etc.. Sorry guys so far TOR total rating 2 of 10 not enough solo content way to much ephesis on social aspect...If i want a social party ill dust off the facebook account i come into a game world to be left alone and to enjoy myself.. As far as quest difficulty i find it challenging at level content..Not all but some do not nerf this..ever if you cant hit 50 like everyone with a founders title then go play wow and have 85 handed to them! dont lower speeder training 40k by 25 is easy unless your extreamly stupid.. all in all hope 2.0 makes me reconsider cause unlike wow if it doesnt you wont see me for 3.0 fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me! 1-2.4 was awesome in wow...3.0-3.3 was meh 4.0 sucked 4.2 destroyed the game..4.3 destroyed pvp entirely! No one should be capping their weekly conquest via randoms and i was capping both active toons before the weekend every week via randoms! 100 per win first win of the day 50 per win there after! Glitches d/cs i can accept less then 30 days since release! glitches that are here now i expect gone by 1.3.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julioiglesiasp Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Well two things: 1.- If you know about a bug in the game you have TO REPORT IT and dont use it to win or obtain a personnal benefit (have to read the contract and user conditions). 2.- I guess that if Bioware starts to do masive bans they will lose players, they have to think about make something that helps to the republic players to gain more level as the Imps did in the bug with the exploit. That would help to balance the game. And please, review the "mirror classes" they are so unbalanced at favor of the IMPS..... Anyway, the game is great, it has a little bugs, but who desnt?? Be pacient. May the force be with you all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkleLux Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) That example makes no sense. That example makes perfect sense. If the bank accidentaly deposits 1k USD to your account, then you are the one responsible for making sure that this mistake is brought to light and rectified, if they're not already aware of it. If you were to take advantage of the mistake (i.e use the money), then you would be asked by the bank to pay it back. If you can't/won't, they'll go to court. And since you've got a habit of reading too much into arguments made against you, I'll say this: BioWare will not take you to court for this. That would have been ridiculous beyond even my own standards. They will, however, most likely roll back the Valor gained by the people who took advantage of the exploit (whether it was intentional or not). Ignorance isn't an excuse. Let's use a different example of exploitation: If you buy something online, receive it, decide you don't like it and call back the payment, but keeping the item you bought just because you can, there will be consequences (most likely through law). If you do the same, only difference being that you had good faith and thought it'd be okay (or simply forgot), you'd still have to suffer the consequences. Why? Because you charged back your payment, but kept the item. That's called an "exploit"; you used an existing "mechanic" in a way that's "not intended" (i.e fraud in this case). That's how real life works. If you commit a crime (whether you're aware of it or not), you'll have to do the time. The law has no room for ignorance, nor does BioWare's policies. It's your responsibility to acquaint yourself with their rules and policies, not theirs. It should really be easy to understand. What I don't understand is why you're having such a hard time getting this... Edited January 22, 2012 by SparkleLux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeBohm Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 That example makes perfect sense. If the bank accidentaly deposits 1k USD to your account, then you are the one responsible for making sure that this mistake is brought to light and rectified, if they're not already aware of it. If you were to take advantage of the mistake (i.e use the money), then you would be asked by the bank to pay it back. If you can't/won't, they'll go to court. And since you've got a habit of reading too much into arguments made against you, I'll say this: BioWare will not take you to court for this. That would have been ridiculous beyond even my own standards. They will, however, most likely roll back the Valor gained by the people who took advantage of the exploit (whether it was intentional or not). Ignorance isn't an excuse. If you buy something online, receive it, decide you don't like it and call back the payment, but keeping the item you bought just because you can, there will be consequences (most likely through law). If you do the same, only difference being that you had good faith and thought it'd be okay (or simply forgot), you'd still have to suffer the consequences. That's how real life works. If you commit a crime (whether you're aware of it or not), you'll have to do the time. The law has no room for ignorance, nor does BioWare's policies. It's your responsibility to acquaint yourself with their rules and policies, not theirs. It should really be easy to understand. What I don't understand is why you're having such a hard time getting this... No. That example made no sense a day ago and it makes no sense now. Bioware did not give us valor. They rolled out a patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts