KronikInsomniak Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) I'm going to try to organize my thoughts here on why Arenas won't ever be balanced in this game and if the Devs were to try to balance it how it would break WZ balance in general. Feel free to discuss or even counter my arguments here, I'm not trying to bash Arena, I'm just saying why I think in order to balance it you would inevitably end up breaking other areas of the game. Note: I'm not going to even dabble on the PVE repercussions because it would factor in expertise and make this long post longer. 1. Arena is all about killing your opponents. There is no other objective. This immediately creates problem for tank classes in the game. Yes they could be in a team for utility and guard but how much do you think you would have to buff that utility to make it equally viable to having a dps on the team? 2. Team comp for CC synergy become big factors in arenas, this inevitably leads to issues trying to balance every class to similar utility in the game. This creates problems because some classes are designed around big damage over cc, or high cc low survivability. Trying to balance this will always leave some classes undesired in arena where burst and control is even more king. Unless you have fixed comps, it is almost impossible to balance comps. Yes I know, rock, paper, scissor. But you can bet certain comps will always be generally stronger and certain classes will be left out. 3. Trying to balance zerg comps and healing. Should double healer in 3v3 never die? Should they run out of mana? Stop and think about this seriously for a moment. If they should die how would that balance translate to a WZ setting? If they would run out of mana how would that translate to WZs? Same applies when thinking about the amount of CC and heals that would be required to prevent a zerg comp from killing a 1 heal 2 dps team. Would that translate into balance in WZ? More importantly in a 1 heal/2 dps mirror match, you would have to increase damage and cc by a truckload to even make this possible, things people are already complaining about. If you make heals strong enough to come out of CC and top off his teammate that breaks WZs. On the flipside, if you DON'T make heals strong enough to do that then people complain Arenas are a zerg fest and its broken. 4. The thing about WZs is it is not restricted to a 1 room setting. People are spread out and focused on objectives. Having 4 dps zerg down a healer at a point to accomplish a objective is balanced. Having 2 healers come in and save two players struggling to hold off a strong push by the other team is balanced. Things are not focused in a vacuum with all the variables taken out. People can die in WZs, but that doesn't immediately equate to a loss. I probably am missing many other thoughts and ideas but this is getting long winded so I'll just end it here. I just to want to add as a final note that I'm not against Arena play. I think in many games it is fun and gives that competitive spirit with your team. However, I do see the flaws in trying to balance a MMORPG around such a concept when there are WZs and PvE to be considered. I haven't even touched on the topic of rating and gear rewards and how that forces players to put even more emphasis on arenas. To have arena, you have to build a game around the concept and SWTOR isn't it. Edited January 20, 2012 by KronikInsomniak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KronikInsomniak Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 shameless bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizah Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The thing that was always irritating on WoW that I noticed was when Blizzard implemented the nerfs/buffs to try and balance out Arenas as best as they could, which sometimes would slap PvE in the face and vise versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehash Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Just make arenas ladder only with a mount reward or two. No gear rewards. That way, those who want arenas can participate and those who don't like the format can ignore it. EDIT: To the poster above me: the balance works both ways. PvPers also had balance changes that negatively effected them that were directed at the PvE players. This can be easily avoided however by adjusting values so that they work differently in PvP and PvE. Its easy, clean and has been proven to work in other games. Edited January 20, 2012 by Rehash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caffinated Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'm going to try to organize my thoughts here on why Arenas won't ever be balanced in this game and if the Devs were to try to balance it how it would break WZ balance in general. This game has no arenas so your wall of text is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehash Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 This game has no arenas so your wall of text is irrelevant. Go away. People are trying to have a legitimate discussion here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redderic Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 im sorry but tanks arent worthless 1v1. im a tank and usually always get at least 50k prot but i still do 200k dmg per WZ minimum. I get 3k+ crits all of the time. if they made it so that people get nothing but TITLES or some MERC COMMS for doing the arena fights then there would be no real problem at all. the thing about arenas is it teaches people how to kill other people. some have no clue what to do if they end up in a 1v1 or 2v1 setting in a WZ and end up losing points or letting bombs get planted. not to mention if they make it so people can watch the fights we can learn from watching other people as well. few things that would make it easier... NO STIMS NO MEDPACKS NO ADRENALS NO OUTSIDE BUFFS PERIOD sure no medpacks = harder time for tanks but sorry i guess that just sucks for you. i can get up to 60k healing done from only using 2 different abilities. I personally would love to see arenas here to test out how i would do against others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KronikInsomniak Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Just make arenas ladder only with a mount reward or two. No gear rewards. That way, those who want arenas can participate and those who don't like the format can ignore it. EDIT: To the poster above me: the balance works both ways. PvPers also had balance changes that negatively effected them that were directed at the PvE players. This can be easily avoided however by adjusting values so that they work differently in PvP and PvE. Its easy, clean and has been proven to work in other games. I could agree to this, but I guess it would really but up to the community to decide how seriously they would want to take it. My main issue is with people wanting it to become a serious competition in which case balance would become a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehash Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I could agree to this, but I guess it would really but up to the community to decide how seriously they would want to take it. My main issue is with people wanting it to become a serious competition in which case balance would become a problem. There is no reason arenas can't be balanced separately from the rest of the game. I never understand why MMO companies think they can keep abilities balanced for both PvP and PvE at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KronikInsomniak Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 im sorry but tanks arent worthless 1v1. im a tank and usually always get at least 50k prot but i still do 200k dmg per WZ minimum. I get 3k+ crits all of the time. if they made it so that people get nothing but TITLES or some MERC COMMS for doing the arena fights then there would be no real problem at all. the thing about arenas is it teaches people how to kill other people. some have no clue what to do if they end up in a 1v1 or 2v1 setting in a WZ and end up losing points or letting bombs get planted. not to mention if they make it so people can watch the fights we can learn from watching other people as well. few things that would make it easier... NO STIMS NO MEDPACKS NO ADRENALS NO OUTSIDE BUFFS PERIOD sure no medpacks = harder time for tanks but sorry i guess that just sucks for you. i can get up to 60k healing done from only using 2 different abilities. I personally would love to see arenas here to test out how i would do against others. I actually like that merc commendation idea, never thought of it that way and could see how that would be a viable reward system. However would that create an advantage for gearing for favored comps and classes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezzem Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Implementing arenas, lets say 3v3 is easy to do in the first place. But i think that Bioware are really scared of the aftermath of it (balance) it puts class balance under a microscope. Blizzard did it and although not perfect in any way i would say it was a huge success overall. It creates a different side of the game that will attract thousands of players to, streams will get popular and more publicity for the game. Its a risk vs reward. Its the most high end pvp u can get imo, and when u play a game ur adrenaline rushing when ur close to a kill on high rating. Edited January 20, 2012 by Ezzem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts