Poor_Grammar Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) It's a lot easier to call someone low skill if they don't have a way to prove otherwise. It's easier to just get carried in warzones to get gear. You have to use more abilities, and in some cases spec weird to be optimal. You have to actually contribute. You have to accept some people enjoy a different playstyle then you do. There is a possibility they might tweak your class (they are going to do this anyways). You don't have the advantage of steamrolling pugs, there are none. If you don't like arenas you don't like them. But to say they shouldn't exist because you personally don't care for them is ridiculous. It is an aspect of a game, it's exclusion only polarizes a demographic Bioware is trying to keep. Edited January 20, 2012 by Poor_Grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsemaster Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 People don't like the idea of skill-based PvP. They want it to be a faction-based zerg fest where they can hide anonymously spamming TRACER MISSILE and LIGHTNING BOLT and get hard when they crit, and start wanking in general chat about how good at PVP they are. These heroes cannot stand a 3v3 or a 5v5 because they are bad, but confronting them with this fact only makes them scream "ARENA IS NOT RP." Sorry kids, balance > RP. This game will die without balance. That's the bottom line. If the game mechanics are a joke, telling people to "imagine it like this" fixes nothing. Search your feelings, you know this to be true. And, if roleplay is really what you want, go do some LARP. LIGHTNING BOLT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonkong Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Arena's are like many of aspects of the modern MMO, fewer people participate so they are a lower priority for the developers. Paying customers don't like losing all the time, so why would developers work on a system (as you so &*%$ishly pointed out) that the majority of paying customers dislike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navimygator Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 People don't want a fair fight, they just want to win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savionen Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The problem with arenas is that since it's super competitive, class balance is extremely important, and I've never played an MMO where classes were very much balanced. Therefore if you've got a weak class, you either have to suck it up and always be at a disadvantage, or reroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talkative Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Arenas destroy PvP. Seriously look at WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntoniusDelitan Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) 2v2 MeleeLOLcleave took skill to play to 2000+ True Story....... srsly.... Edited January 20, 2012 by AntoniusDelitan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peacemakerx Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 because there is already a game for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westinftw Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The reason a lot of people don't like Arena is because it's Player vs. Class, not Player vs. Player. Some would even say it's Player vs. Gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalindran Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Arenas destroy PvP. Seriously look at WoW. Agreed. Arenas are a "canned hunt", warzones are in the least a microcosm of world pvp with an objective which makes them somewhat tolerable. An Arena match is just a glorified duel where proper team composition means almost as much if not more than actual skill. At least that was the way it was handled in that other Fantasy Elf and Wolf game I refuse to name. If I see an Elf or Wolf here in SWTOR, I am killing it. Nuff said. Have fun ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naethion Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 There is more to it than "It kills PvP", or "Low skill people will always lose". There are more reasons than that I just know it. They probably won't appear any time soon, but there are always true reasons behind the reasons others come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parckie Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Arenas destroy PvP. Seriously look at WoW. Pretty sure wow PVP thrived with Arena, yes the developers had to work with class issues, but WoW PvP is insanly popular and fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choppaman Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 It's a lot easier to call someone low skill if they don't have a way to prove otherwise. It's easier to just get carried in warzones to get gear. You have to use more abilities, and in some cases spec weird to be optimal. You have to actually contribute. You have to accept some people enjoy a different playstyle then you do. There is a possibility they might tweak your class (they are going to do this anyways). You don't have the advantage of steamrolling pugs, there are none. If you don't like arenas you don't like them. But to say they shouldn't exist because you personally don't care for them is ridiculous. It is an aspect of a game, it's exclusion only polarizes a demographic Bioware is trying to keep. I assume you mean arenas in WoW? I'll go off that assumption. I don't like arenas because they were intended to be a medium where skill would rise to the top and the crap would sink to the bottom. Instead, what they got was a massive barrier to entry because of players in outstanding gear dropping teams and powering new teams up through low ranks, exploiting, and the requirement of PvE gear as well to be any good at all. Arenas were supposed to be a new way to get gear, titles and all of that jazz, without devoting your entire life to the game. Instead, if I roll a new character in WoW, I have to farm BGs and get stomped for weeks, then enter arenas in trash entry level BG gear and get stomped by those in full arena gear for a few more weeks, and then I will finally have enough gear and the season will be over. TL;DR: I hate arena because it isn't what it was supposed to be and it has enormous barriers to entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalindran Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Pretty sure wow PVP thrived with Arena, yes the developers had to work with class issues, but WoW PvP is insanly popular and fun. Did you honestly forget the part where even the developers said that creating their arena system was one of the biggest mistakes they ever made? The only reason it still exists to this day is because you simply cannot "put the poopiez back into the goose". It is also probably the reason why no MMO since has ever bothered with it. Nuff said. Have fun ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntoniusDelitan Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Pretty sure wow PVP thrived with Arena, yes the developers had to work with class issues, but WoW PvP is insanly popular and fun. Wow's Arenas "thrived" and were "the most popular PvP" because the time-to-reward ratio was insanely disproportionate to any other way to earn conquest points. Do your 10 wins, then you're done for the week. Doesn't mean people liked them. It was just the only way to compete. Edited January 20, 2012 by AntoniusDelitan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdnyc Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 It's a lot easier to call someone low skill if they don't have a way to prove otherwise. It's easier to just get carried in warzones to get gear. You have to use more abilities, and in some cases spec weird to be optimal. You have to actually contribute. You have to accept some people enjoy a different playstyle then you do. There is a possibility they might tweak your class (they are going to do this anyways). You don't have the advantage of steamrolling pugs, there are none. If you don't like arenas you don't like them. But to say they shouldn't exist because you personally don't care for them is ridiculous. It is an aspect of a game, it's exclusion only polarizes a demographic Bioware is trying to keep. Because PvP works best with PvE when there's a focus on US and not YOU? Arena's force the comparison down to the individual. That's not how Warzones are won. It's not how Flashpoints/Operations are completed. Arena puts the emphasis on you and you balancing against every other build. These changes stop being about playing as a team and more about playing for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdnyc Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Wow's Arenas "thrived" and were "the most popular PvP" because the time-to-reward ratio was insanely disproportionate to any other way to earn conquest points. Do your 10 wins, then you're done for the week. Doesn't mean people liked them. It was just the only way to compete. People liked them. Just not MMO players. It attracts a different type of gamer mentality that is mostly incompatible with a team sport mentality. Mainly because it's impossible to class balance for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravashakk Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Yeah because people with arena related perks (gear/titles) didn't flaunt that in front of everybody either. The fact is, class combos were more important in arena than skill or gear. If I were to put a number on it I'd say:Combo : 50%Skill : 35%Gear : 15% For the longest time I didn't do arena on any of my guys since BC. Anytime a PVP related argument came up, no matter how much sense I made, I was a scrub for not having some rating achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abishe Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 A 5 vs 5, how can that destroy PvP?.sorry it not make sens. sure 1 vs 1, is crap.nobody expect a sorcerer to kill a assassin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narw Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 People hate arena becouse if you are bad you will get stomped. And since wast majority of players is horrible, they will get stomped. Instead of actually thinking to improve they will just blame classes/system/gear. TLDR Bads dont like being proven they are bads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntoniusDelitan Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 People liked them. Just not MMO players. It attracts a different type of gamer mentality that is mostly incompatible with a team sport mentality. Mainly because it's impossible to class balance for both. You mean Call of Duty kiddies? I'll agree with you. I'll also say the majority of players hated them. Maybe not the VAST majority, but 51% or more hated them. IMO, of course, but there it is. I did arena. And I hated arena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Arenas are just multiplayer dueling. Objective based Warzones require fighting and objectives. They are more complex than just multiplayer dueling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdnyc Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 A 5 vs 5, how can that destroy PvP?. sorry it not make sens. sure 1 vs 1, is crap. nobody expect a sorcerer to kill a assassin. 5v5 system wouldn't work in this game. It would have to be 4v4 or 8v8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntoniusDelitan Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 People hate arena becouse if you are bad you will get stomped. And since wast majority of players is horrible, they will get stomped. Instead of actually thinking to improve they will just blame classes/system/gear. TLDR Bads dont like being proven they are bads. Again, because it took skill to bring MeleeLOLcleave or KFC to 1850+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloatedGuppy Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 There are so many reasons. 1. You need to balance PvP against PvE. With warzones and open world PvP, you can have soft balance. It doesn't really matter if class A is slightly outperforming class B at any given interval, and it's unavoidable. For truly competitive PvP, you need hard balance. Everything needs to be honed as sharp as possible. How would you feel if one of your core PvP talents was nerfed because it was too effective in a raid encounter only 0.5% of the population ever saw? That's what we're looking at, here. 2. Not too many people are really capable of/interested in high level competitive PvP in MMOs. It's got niche appeal. That doesn't make it bad, but directing the enormous developer resources it requires to get working correctly to such a small percentage of the player base is not a good strategy. 3. It's ridiculous to have high level/competitive PvP in a game that has a gear gap in the first place. You need a flat playing field. It would be like winning a Starcraft game because your Ultralisks had epic armor. It's a terrible medium for e-sports, and if anyone really APPRECIATES e-sports, or just sports of any kind, they'll easily understand why. 4. Like raiding, it turns people into intolerable douchebags. The amount of preening and smack talking it promoted in WoW absolutely beggared the imagination. It made a hostile, toxic community even more intolerable, by order of magnitude. Apparently people just can't psychologically deal with being ranked, it makes them go insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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