Phydra Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) First, the facts: 1. We all know there was a last minute design change to make Qyzen Aim based. 2. We all know his codex entry says he uses Vibroswords. In reality, he can ONLY use a techblade. 3. We all know the oversight of not giving him either: a. The vibrosword ability, OR, b. A moddable techblade IS, in fact, an oversight. 4. We know this is not a "game breaking" issue for everyone, but it IS a serious and ever-present annoyance that costs consulars who wish to use him: a. time to find upgrades (when available or comparable). b. money well over and above what other classes must spend to manage their correctly available, moddable weaponry. c. angst and frustration upon entering new hunting grounds with what is often under-level gear and no reasonable way to see to it but grit the teeth and take the extra effort to get the cash to re-engage (a) and (b) as above noted OR hope there is a craftman about willing to sell you one. 5. This is NOT an extravagant nor even a difficult fix to implement. 6. There have been numerous maintenance windows and two patches in which this could have been addressed. All the above said, this post is an attempt to show BioWare that, while we're not unreasonable and we're not angry... yet... this matters to the many of us who are playing consulars and would very much like to have Qyzen be "comparable" to both our other companion options AND to other class companions in this game. Edited February 2, 2012 by Vastalee removed petition references Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitru Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 It's not gonna happen. Wanna know why? Because you'd also be forcing BW to create an entire slew of additional Hilts with Aim on them, relatively pointless since it's only for specific companions and completely useless for player gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prvtdonut Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I would rather them just reassign Qyzen's class from Bounty Hunter/Trooper to Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior and have him be based off Strength and using Vibroblades. Doing hard modes can get frustrating when nonstop Str pieces drop that absolutely nobody can use in the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phydra Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 I would rather them just reassign Qyzen's class from Bounty Hunter/Trooper to Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior and have him be based off Strength and using Vibroblades. Doing hard modes can get frustrating when nonstop Str pieces drop that absolutely nobody can use in the run. The ultimate goals are simple and can be met with either: 1. Adding the moddable techblade and related items (i.e., things to mod them with), OR 2. Reverting him to Vibroswords (which seem to be working just fine for others) and switching him to the appropriate stat base for their use. At this point, so long as he's still "a tank", I really don't care which it is... but as it is, he's broken and difficult to use (which I am and have and wish to be able to continue to do)... I would just really like him not to be. Since it seems the intended "fix" is techblade, that's what this petition asks for... if BioWare decides to revert him, I'll still be made happy. I just want A FIX to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cienna Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'm playing a vanguard trooper, so I don't have access to Qyzen as a companion. But I'm signing this petition because I have the same problem with my melee tank companion, Tanno Vik. I'd very much like to see a fix implemented for Qyzen and Tanno Vik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kytea Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Give my Sage a T2 like the Knights have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitru Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) 2. Reverting him to Vibroswords (which seem to be working just fine for others) and switching him to the appropriate stat base for their use. Except that, in order to do so, the developers would be signing off to encouraging Qyzen to start wearing knight robes *and* have to switch him so that he starts using Force Power instead of Tech power (since Vibroblades have Force Power on them, not Tech power). Both options aren't likely for the devs to follow through on. The first requires the creation of mods that will exist on the loot tables exclusively for companions. Wholesale weapons that exist only for companion use make sense (since I don't really know of *any* players that use non-moddable weapons beyond level 20), but mods that exist purely to give companions gear is relatively pointless, especially since I don't think the devs even planned or cared that some players would spend massive amounts of effort getting moddable gear for their companions. The second requires that the devs do a complete redesign of Qyzen. He doesn't look right in Knight robes, and it doesn't make sense for him to use Force power when he's obviously tech. He's a melee trooper and, because of that, it's pretty doubtful that he's gonna get changed to use player weapons unless the devs add a new class that specifically uses the relevant items so that they're not just creating a class of mod (Aim hilts) to place on universal loot tables just for a minority of players within a limited number of classes. The developers made the decision to keep Qyzen as a melee trooper and, because of it, didn't want to bother will loading loot tables with largely pointless Aim hilts just for him (and those like him). Moddable gear is pretty much intended for players and not their companions, since there are no mods for the weird set ups some companions use. If you want a companion that uses moddable gear, find one that fits the same gear paradigm as a player. Edited January 20, 2012 by Kitru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phydra Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Kitru, Given that every companion in the game excepting Vik and Qyzen can (and do, thank you) have the ability to use moddable weapons, I'll just leave it at "You're wrong, the devs themselves have said things that support that you're wrong, and if you are only able to suggest problems and cannot manage to suggest a comparable and comparative solution to, oh, I dunno, every other companion in the game, perhaps you'd be kind enough to take your peashooter of doom elsewhere?" If not, no worries; I can ignore you if I must. Oh, and while I'm at it, I spent about six years working quest and integration for another MMO (which will remain unnamed) so, in case you were wondering, you're pretty much wrong about level of difficulty and effort, too: 1. Clone armor, mod, and enhancements, 2. Modify the primary stat to Aim, 3. Commit the change, 4. Regression, smoke, and black box test the change to ensure they works across established test cases for armor and weaponry, 5. Roll into staging, 6. Push to production. General level of effort is less than 20 hours for a single person from step 1 to step 3, about 10 hours from steps 4 to 5, and maybe another 10 (at a push) if there are any last minute issues in maintenance. So, yeah, a week's effort from a team who clearly (a) know their stuff, (b) have mature process and automation in place, and © obviously have successfully managed this as they modded Qyzen (and Vik?) to their current state in the first place (which likely WAS an incomplete job, judging from the typo on Qyzen's Codex entry and the reality that the only other techblade user in the game seems to be suffering from the same issue). Now, if you don't mind, and with as much tact as I can manage in a thread you're clearly trying to troll... buzz off. Edited January 20, 2012 by Phydra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitru Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Given that every companion in the game excepting Vik and Qyzen can (and do, thank you) have the ability to use moddable weapons They have the ability to use moddable weapons because they are functionally identical to player characters from a design standpoint. There is no appreciable difference between a Lightsaber and a Vibroblade with the exception of the model: the stats are entirely identical. There *is* however a very appreciable difference between the melee Aim characters and every other player class out there because the weapons they use are not useful for any player character at all. They exist solely as companion weapons. Also, not every companion is fully capable of using all moddable weapons of their weapon type. Many weapons are explicitly intended for players, as indicated by the LS/DS requirement that a *vast* majority of moddable weapons have which companions are incapable of fulfilling the requirements for. You also forgot about Yuun, Akaavi, SCORPIO, and all of the other Aim primary melee character besides Qyzen and Tanno, which means that it's not very likely that it was an oversight of the developers to not include moddable weapons for all of them to use. As I said before, they likely made the decision not to clutter up the loots tables with *even more* companion exclusive gear than there already is by creating an entirely new classification of hilt mod just for them. It's an easy enough project that it wouldn't really take all that long to put into practice so there had to have been a *reason* why something that simple wasn't added, and I doubt it was "we forgot" since they made sure to include loads of weapons for the characters to use that *aren't* moddable. "You're wrong, the devs themselves have said things that support that you're wrong, and if you are only able to suggest problems and cannot manage to suggest a comparable and comparative solution to, oh, I dunno, every other companion in the game, perhaps you'd be kind enough to take your peashooter of doom elsewhere?" I'd be curious where *exactly* the devs have said things that support that I'm wrong since I haven't actually seen any of this information. And, personally, I'd rather not have the loot tables cluttered up with a new classification of hilts and a slew of additional moddable items that are only useful in the least to companions. I get annoyed enough at the massive amounts of aim scatterguns, aim sniper rifles, aim blaster pistols, cunning assault cannons, and other various and a sundry companion exclusive weapons that are already on the loot tables that I don't really see the benefit to adding a new classification of hilt mods *specifically* because some people want their companions to be decked out with fully moddable weapons exclusive to them. Oh, and while I'm at it, I spent about six years working quest and integration for another MMO (which will remain unnamed) so, in case you were wondering, you're pretty much wrong about level of difficulty and effort, too: I never said anything about the difficulty or effort. I simply said that the devs made their decision and, honestly, I can understand exactly why they did it and see no reason for them to look back on it. The only "advantage" gained is giving a small number of players that have a special desire for fully moddable weapons for a minority of drastically different-from-normal companions while it will have an effect upon the larger populous by providing a large number of largely worthless drops specifically to assuage the desires of the smaller group (and, by doing so, offset the potentially *useful* drops that could have dropped otherwise). Now, if you don't mind, and with as much tact as I can manage in a thread you're clearly trying to troll... buzz off. I'm not trying to troll. If I *was*, I wouldn't have provided reasons or a well worded response, and, honestly, I don't even *understand* the psychology of trolling since it's really quite alien to me. Apparently, you're incapable of distinguishing a well worded counterargument from purposeful antagonization, which, in this case is only incidental because you don't have the ability to deal with someone that doesn't agree with you. If you want to pull together a bunch of people that want something without understanding the reasons why it probably *wasn't* done to present some united front amongst the player base to the devs, you're sadly out of luck. The only detraction I'm causing to your discussion is in adding the other side of it. It isn't the one sided issue that you want it to seem like. Also, you haven't provided *any* defense for my statement that Qyzen and the other Aim melee companions aren't magically going to become Force using Str characters that wear robes, because that is what would happen if you changed their primary stat to strength: even if there *were* some trooper-looking options for str armor (likely simply using the same gear that currently bears the characters' names and changing the primary stat since that's the simplest change if it were to occur), a vast majority str armor would *still* be knight armor, meaning that you would still see a vast majority of Qyzens, Tannos, and others running around in *even more* laughably misplaced heavy armor than already occurs. The developers assigned the armor types and primary stats based upon the chosen aesthetic of the character. As much as some people might *mechanically* prefer he be a Str character, *aesthetically* he is an Aim character and the only way the devs can functionally enforce it is by causing the primary stat to match the player class-aesthetic in question. One of the casualties of this design choice was moddable weapons for companions that don't match player moddable weapon types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountebank Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Wouldn't the easier solution to this be to let Techblades and Electrostaves take both hilt and barrel modifications? That would compensate for the customizing crowd, I suspect. As for those looking for drops, could just change all those prototype assault cannons with cunning on them (I still have no idea who uses those) to techblades/electrostaves with Aim (btw, I'm a 40 Smuggler, same boat as all of you with Akaavi) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnsire Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Signed and agreed upon the Op's post. I no longer use him because either a) he doesn't hold aggro very well b) he's like a squishy now and c) he hardly does any dmg because his gear so under geared for the content you are at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khadroth Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Show me a hilt with Aim on it and sure I might agree to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galaemax Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Me to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_strategos Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Quiznos is a terrible companion and that should be changed. Not even sages use his useless bum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitru Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Show me a hilt with Aim on it and sure I might agree to this. The OP is pretty much asking for all of those to be added to the game (either that or for a complete redesign of Qyzen and all of the many other melee Aim companions that BW created which is pretty much never going to happen). Personally, I think the lack of moddable components that don't match with player designs is pretty telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phydra Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Trolling aside, we all know that Qyzen was initially a STR/END tank, so we know the code exists to make him so again. We also know the current intention is that he be an AIM/END tank, so it is natural to further expect that he will be gearable just as all the other AIM/END companions are and yes, this includes both the availability of at least one orange, moddable weapon as well as related commendation-based upgrades for it. The request list is pretty simple, despite the efforts of some to over-complicate it. The baseline ask is simply to put an orange, moddable techblade in the game for the guy and make appropriate commendation upgrades available for use. As I understand it, this would resolve Qyzen's issue as well as Vik's (who seems to also have suffered from the techblade issue). Other than our thread's personal "Billy Goat Gruff", I have not heard any players who care about this issue say they much care if this means Qyzen wears a robe, has the appearance of tank-ish armor, or frankly, runs around in a pink, fuzzy bunny outfit. The point is that he should have the same options for play as the other companions. Glad to see the agreement coming in and may it continue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitru Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Other than our thread's personal "Billy Goat Gruff", I have not heard any players who care about this issue say they much care if this means Qyzen wears a robe, has the appearance of tank-ish armor, or frankly, runs around in a pink, fuzzy bunny outfit. The problem is that the devs *do*, otherwise they would have taken the relatively simple step to make him a Str character than an Aim character. The developers *should* care about the aesthetics of their game. It's an important element and if they change the mechanics to *encourage* breaking the given aesthetic, it renders the intended aesthetic functionally pointless since it would barely see any actual use. This argument is pretty much identical to all of the "dark side Cons should have lightning" threads that routinely pass through; the devs made their decision and, honestly, in order to preserve the aesthetic uniqueness and intent of the classes, both for players *and* companions, they should stick to that decision. Just because a few players (and those that I have met that actually *care* about getting a moddable weap for their companions are few and far between compared to the entire population) want this doesn't mean that the developers should abandon their aesthetic sense to assuage some minor mechanical preference. If aesthetics didn't matter, we would all run around in identical gear and all weapons would look exactly the same. The only *reasonable* compromise would be for some few *specific* moddable weapons that are *not fully moddable* to be added specifically to assuage the concerns of the few players that do care. The "not fully moddable" requirement would mean that the weapon in question only has mod and enhancement mod slots. The developers would still need to create the Aim hilts, but there would be no need to place them on the loot tables and simply have them exist as artefactual references the partially moddable items reference in the inaccessible slot (since, even on items that are partially moddable, they must still reference the modification in question that "occupies" the inaccessible slot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GellonSW Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Trolling aside, we all know that Qyzen was initially a STR/END tank, so we know the code exists to make him so again. We also know the current intention is that he be an AIM/END tank, so it is natural to further expect that he will be gearable just as all the other AIM/END companions are and yes, this includes both the availability of at least one orange, moddable weapon as well as related commendation-based upgrades for it. The request list is pretty simple, despite the efforts of some to over-complicate it. The baseline ask is simply to put an orange, moddable techblade in the game for the guy and make appropriate commendation upgrades available for use. As I understand it, this would resolve Qyzen's issue as well as Vik's (who seems to also have suffered from the techblade issue). Other than our thread's personal "Billy Goat Gruff", I have not heard any players who care about this issue say they much care if this means Qyzen wears a robe, has the appearance of tank-ish armor, or frankly, runs around in a pink, fuzzy bunny outfit. The point is that he should have the same options for play as the other companions. Glad to see the agreement coming in and may it continue! Qyzen was always an AIM/END tank but he was a ranged Trooper tank originally. I would say either have them change him to a full STR/END or just change him back to a ranged tank and he can use his blaster rifles again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melsworld Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Qyzen definitely has gear issues, especially a decent weapon and this was a huge problem in my own early leveling. Add a modable orange techblade to corresant's commendation vendor and the problem is solved. Also, you might want to fix his codex entry that claims his primary weapon is a vibrosword, since it's a techblade. Or maybe that's a bug? Anyway, we need a fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitru Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Qyzen was always an AIM/END tank but he was a ranged Trooper tank originally. I would say either have them change him to a full STR/END or just change him back to a ranged tank and he can use his blaster rifles again. Changing him to a ranged tank would necessitate changing our other companions: all classes get a melee tank, a ranged tank, a ranged DPS, a melee DPS, and a healer (and, technically, a droid that can heal). Changing Qyzen to a ranged tank would require reworking the other companions (since I doubt we could explain Iresso as a melee tank). As I have repeatedly stated, changing him into a Str tank would completely ignore the entirety of BW's work maintaining characters' aesthetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartalectwo Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 There's a few characters whose appearance doesn't change with armour added. Qyzen's Dark Side equivalent Khem Val, for example. Perhaps Qyzen could be one of those? I get the feeling he looks as odd as if he was fresh from the Republic Army as he would look in a Jedi robe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakayo Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 If this petition gets through isn't it just going to create a new issue with devaluing Armstech moderately? It seems like everyone over in the crew skills forum has some complaint about their crew skill being worthless.. by making all these weapons that aren't available in fully moddable form you're taking away the entire market. putting in something like this will kill the techblade/techstaff market which is like the only market left right now because of people's active refusal to use the gtn because of all the orange availability for other weapons. So no don't take away the only merchandise worth reverse engineering into purple quality for lower levels (I'm not even an armstech and I can see why this would be a bad idea) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teepster Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) My preference is to make Qyzen str/end like Khem Val. I do not care how he looks while doing it either. I have a Sith Sorceror and Khem Val is so much easier to deal with than my gecko. Edited February 2, 2012 by Vastalee removed /signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumpyone Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I like Qyzen as a companion, but honestly I'd rather see other issues in the game dealt with than his lack of a moddable techblade. I still have not found him a moddable belt or bracer either. Personally, I have to: /disagree with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felioats Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Kitru's like, my fav poster here, but they could add Aim hilts of various levels to various commendation vendors. Crafters wouldn't have them cluttering their UI and people wouldn't be annoyed at looting them. It's just one more little item on a commendation vendor's list. Or they could add them to the companion quest rewards. They offer severely underleveled green techblades; they could offer similar Aim hilts as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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