Fzhoul Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Expertise get rid of it. PVP reward gear should have been socketable orange gear (pvp to get that cool looking gear). Add more pvp mounts, unique weapons and pets, and TITLES. PVP rewards should be a cosmetic thing not give an edge with more stats. "But then ppl would use raid gear to get the edge" Make a bolster mechanic that evens out the playing field. ie: Every vanguard/sorc/BH/sage/ect has X amount of hp (depending on your class/spec), every weapon has the same stat allocations and damage range. It's not homogenization, it's equaling out the playground. If a marauder attacks a sentinel there will ONLY be player skill that determines the outcome not who played longer to get better gear to roll someone. "But i wouldn't be progressing my toon !" Your collecting unique looking gear/titles/mounts/pets/unique companion looks, socketing it with tradeskills mods or ilum dailies mods. PVP has always been about bragging rights, cosmetics and visuals are what everyone likes, BW should use their best asset (socketable gear looks). Would be great to be known for actually how good you are and not how long you farmed gear. Edited January 19, 2012 by Paralassa content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename_Quincy Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 make everyone the same ? fail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillbro Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Expertise is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodmoonz Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Gear is part of mmo's..... If they did get rid of expertise, the player with the better gear would STILL beat you. expertise isnt your only problem, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxidenstore Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Yes, and while we're at it let's get rid of leveling. .......... Edited January 19, 2012 by Luxidenstore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nrrrdking Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 This is the first honest portrayal of what "skill" PvP should be that I have ever read on this forum. The OP gets a cookie. the problem is that most of the people who want to play PvP actually don't WANT it to be fair. They don't want to have an even playing field. They want to take advantage of weaker people. That's why they PvP. This is especially true in open world PvP. If things were fair, hardly anyone would play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fzhoul Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 pvp would make gear not matter, if everyone was bolstered to an even play ground. Gear is for pve and progression. Think of a fps shooter i have different guns that do different things, but in the end everyone is basically on an even playing field. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidAdas Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) So. I respect what you're saying and I certainly find value in suggesting a more skill-based PvP system. Still, I don't think taking the marginal utility out of PvP is going to increase its appeal. You may not like the grinding you have to do to obtain PvP gear, but many others probably do... and at least it keeps us participating in warzones. Edited January 19, 2012 by DavidAdas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 FPS this and that. This is an MMO and everyone CAN be equal as long as they are willing to put the same effort into it. Don't want to put that effort in? -Then learn to deal with some ppl having an edge over you. Simple as that. Leveling out the playing field is allready there, and it's up to you to get it done. And this is coming from someone who doesnt even have a level 50 toon yet, but happens to like working towards my goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxinRiens Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I have a fix for RAID gear. Raid Gear should be socketable orange gear. You raid to look cool, introduce raid mounts and weapons, unique pets etc. Raid rewards should be cosmetic. Someone shouldn't be barred from content just because they wanted to pvp or craft instead of raid. Looking unique is its own rewards. Everyone please sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invispoet Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Expertise get rid of it. PVP reward gear should have been socketable orange gear (pvp to get that cool looking gear). Add more pvp mounts, unique weapons and pets, and TITLES. PVP rewards should be a cosmetic thing not give an edge with more stats. "But then ppl would use raid gear to get the edge" Make a bolster mechanic that evens out the playing field. ie: Every vanguard/sorc/BH/sage/ect has X amount of hp (depending on your class/spec), every weapon has the same stat allocations and damage range. It's not homogenization, it's equaling out the playground. If a marauder attacks a sentinel there will ONLY be player skill that determines the outcome not who played longer to get better gear to roll someone. "But i wouldn't be progressing my toon !" Your collecting unique looking gear/titles/mounts/pets/unique companion looks, socketing it with tradeskills mods or ilum dailies mods. PVP has always been about bragging rights, cosmetics and visuals are what everyone likes, BW should use their best asset (socketable gear looks). Would be great to be known for actually how good you are and not how long you farmed gear. So your whole genius "Fix" is to take a MMORPG, a game genre that is ENTIRELY centered around Character progression, and remove the character progression by making everyone 'equal'. The entire CONCEPT of an RPG is that the longer you play your character, the more powerful they become. If you feel your opponents are too powerful, take the time to increase your own character's strength. Bioware already helps you do this with the bolster mechanic. Asking for a game developer to make someone else weaker because you're either too lazy to put in the time needed to get to that level is childish. The people that spend more time making their characters the strongest they possibly can be SHOULD be stronger than the people that dont take the time to do the same thing. This is part of CHARACTER PROGRESSION. Instead of trying to take a core concept of the game out, I suggest you find a game that doesnt use character progression as one of it's core principles. If you want to pvp without stat based character progression, You should be looking for a game that is less centered on that aspect, like a first person shooter. They are designed from the ground up to make pvp as equal as possible (but keep in mind, even FPS's nowadays have accepted that chaacter progression is something that keeps people playing. TLDR: If you're too lazy to read the whole post, other people's gear isnt the problem...your laziness is. Edited January 19, 2012 by Paralassa content quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invispoet Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 pvp would make gear not matter, if everyone was bolstered to an even play ground. Gear is for pve and progression. Think of a fps shooter i have different guns that do different things, but in the end everyone is basically on an even playing field. . There are already games out there that use this model for pvp. You chose to play this game instead of the other ones. Dont blame Bioware because YOU decided to pass up the game that has exactly what you're looking for and chose this one instead. RPGS are designed around some characters being stronger than others. If you dont like that concept, you're playing the wrong kind of game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethroin Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Why don't you tell us what game is fair? Basketball? No, you're taller than me, not fair. US-Football? No, you're bigger than me, not fair. BF3? No, you have a better framerate and ping than me, not fair. There are exactly two fair games: Chess and Pong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumpraiser Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 100% agree with op Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 lvl 50 pver: "hmm i want to pvp today." *queues up, gets killed by 700+ expertise* "well im never doing that again" gg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtydurst Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Ummm... if I'm not mistaken they already have titles in the game which are earned through PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtydurst Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Why don't you tell us what game is fair? Basketball? No, you're taller than me, not fair. US-Football? No, you're bigger than me, not fair. BF3? No, you have a better framerate and ping than me, not fair. There are exactly two fair games: Chess and Pong. Chess? No, you're smarter than me, not fair. Pong? No, you have better reflexes than me, not fair. Your logic doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invispoet Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Chess? No, you're smarter than me, not fair. Pong? No, you have better reflexes than me, not fair. Your logic doesn't make sense. His whole point is that NO game where one player is put against another is actually fair. By your response, you clearly understand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 lvl 50 pver: "hmm i want to pvp today." *queues up, gets killed by 700+ expertise* "well im never doing that again" gg So you're saying they should focus on making pvp fun for pve'rs rather then for pvpers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borkbork Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Gear is part of mmo's..... If they did get rid of expertise, the player with the better gear would STILL beat you. expertise isnt your only problem, sorry. Not 100% correct some OP are just GEAR and huff and puff. Gear is part of MMOs yes but GEAR I WIN button doesn't need to be. This could be fixed by having a league system and giving the paying customer the freedom of choosing on what level to play Warhammer online died since the management let all early adopters have the GEAR I WIN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invispoet Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 lvl 50 pver: "hmm i want to pvp today." *queues up, gets killed by 700+ expertise* "well im never doing that again" gg It's a good thing that you can win warzones without killing people then, huh? Teamwork > expertise You can have top damage done, top killing blows, top healing done, and still lose because you were killing people that didnt matter in the overall scheme of the warzone. All the dps in the world doesnt help you if it's not directed in the proper direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volkkor Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Expertise get rid of it. PVP reward gear should have been socketable orange gear (pvp to get that cool looking gear). Add more pvp mounts, unique weapons and pets, and TITLES. PVP rewards should be a cosmetic thing not give an edge with more stats. "But then ppl would use raid gear to get the edge" Make a bolster mechanic that evens out the playing field. ie: Every vanguard/sorc/BH/sage/ect has X amount of hp (depending on your class/spec), every weapon has the same stat allocations and damage range. It's not homogenization, it's equaling out the playground. If a marauder attacks a sentinel there will ONLY be player skill that determines the outcome not who played longer to get better gear to roll someone. "But i wouldn't be progressing my toon !" Your collecting unique looking gear/titles/mounts/pets/unique companion looks, socketing it with tradeskills mods or ilum dailies mods. PVP has always been about bragging rights, cosmetics and visuals are what everyone likes, BW should use their best asset (socketable gear looks). Would be great to be known for actually how good you are and not how long you farmed gear. That is hands down the dumbest thing I've heard on these forums. With exception to sages complaining that sorcerers are OP. If everyone is the same when entering a warzone why would I invest my time in bothering getting anything. Might as well run in naked ( which is exactly what I would do ). I could care less about Titles/Mounts. I pvp to get gear and make people cut themselves IRL. Thats it. Everything else is just a bonus. And in a game like this you have to give pvp equivalent gear to stand toe to toe with the PVE gear. PVPers aren't going to want to be forced to run Flash Points just to stand a chance anywhere. This entire suggestion clearly comes from someone who primarily PVE's and does 1-2 WZ's a day just to kill time and thinks of himself as a PVPer. Edited January 19, 2012 by Paralassa content quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volkkor Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 it's a good thing that you can win warzones without killing people then, huh? Teamwork > expertise you can have top damage done, top killing blows, top healing done, and still lose because you were killing people that didnt matter in the overall scheme of the warzone. All the dps in the world doesnt help you if it's not directed in the proper direction. truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invispoet Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Not 100% correct some OP are just GEAR and huff and puff. Gear is part of MMOs yes but GEAR I WIN button doesn't need to be. This could be fixed by having a league system and giving the paying customer the freedom of choosing on what level to play Warhammer online died since the management let all early adopters have the GEAR I WIN There is no "GEAR I WIN" button. Everyone has the opportunity to be equal. This occuers when you are max level and in pvp gear. If you cant deal with someone else's character being more powerful than you because they spent more time on it, you're playing the wrong kind of game. As a side note, if people were given the choice of what league to play in, nearly half of the people would choose the lowest bracket, just for the chance to 'pwn some noobs'. Part of the problem is that in a balanced pvp system, the average player loses half of their games. Most players fall below this average mark, and would lose MORE than half their games. This means more than half of the player base (aka customers) are unhappy. On the other hand, having ways in the game to make your character stronger means that there is always the option to beome more powerful, giving you the chance (or the illusion of a chance, in the case of a truly bad player) to win future matches. MMORPG PvP will never be truly balanced, because the average player would get sick of pvping in that kind of system. The most important thing in ANY game you play is to learn the rules, and to use them to your advantage. In an MMO, this means using the game mechanics to make your character more poweful (ie, level and gear). If you're too lazy/unwilling to do that, it doesnt matter what system they put in, your own laziness will defeat you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibdy Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 If they remove Expertise, or gear mattering in PvP altogether, then you've just got an old-school competitive PvP game, that will get very boring, very quickly. This is not conducive to keeping you paying a subscription. The only reason people put up with only three different warzones and one open world PvP area is because they preoccupy themselves with the pursuit of gear, not the devouring of content. Same reason why modern FPS games also hand out advantages to players that play more. Despite only a small smattering of different maps and general content to consume, it turns out that people play much, much longer, if they have these mini-achievable goals and carrot-on-a-stick mechanisms put in front of them. This is the reality of an MMO, and modern gaming in general, folks. If you don't like it, there's the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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