I challenge GL cannon Vitiate VS ANY Emperor

[Imperatorek]

I have read this topic and seriously have to comment. I watched the Star Wars movies, I read the books about Darth Bane and gamed both KOTORs and now game SWTOR.

 

So what I have to say is that maybe the films were not made epic or something, but seriously Palpatine who needed help from Anakin to kill some Jedi who revealed his true nature.... Sidious who had problems to "solo" Yoda in 1vs1 fight..... Sidious who couldnt just "kill Obi Wan" when he was in his way and had to depend on Vader.... he just doesnt fill the role of "überpowerful being" that I would expect from the strongest Sith..... or even worse if he was the strongest it would prove that Jedi are stronger than Sith (Luke).

 

When I read the books about Darth Bane, I had the feeling that Bane (when in orbalisk armor and at full strenght) would easily kill Vader or Sidious in 1vs1 fight. In the book he is stronger than any other Sith, and he wins a battle vs 3 Jedi who supported by "battle meditation" while 1 of the Jedi is the best lightsaber master existing at the time of Darth Bane. Well maybe its because it was a book but Bane fits much better as "the strongest".

 

Also both Revan and "exiled Jedi" (for me they were both Dark Side in KOTORs (played them dark)) felt like more powerful beings than Sidious who couldnt simply kill Obi Wan or "crush Yoda to dust" (Darth Bane would have easily destroyed any Jedi living in his time in a 1vs1 fight). So when we now get an Emperor powerful enough to rule the sith and dont get assasinated, so powerful that he is immortal or can easily bend Revans mind..... Well he feels like the new "überbeing".

 

And if I can have some suggestion for the game developers then I suggest that they dont let the Emperor get killed in the end of SWTOR. A good idea would be a group of extremely powerful Jedi in a common effort banishing him into some "sleeplike" state in which he remains for some 1000s years to wake up some 100 years after what happend in Star Wars films and the books. And then it would be room for Star Wars "The new republic?" where the Emperor wakes up and remakes the Sith Empire. It would be so much "cooler" when the story would no longer be bound by any canon, where in fact we the players could shape the story by our actions..... And since we all know more players play as Empire.....maybe at last the sith could win and destroy the republic

[Daelric]

And then it would be room for Star Wars "The new republic?" where the Emperor wakes up and remakes the Sith Empire. It would be so much "cooler" when the story would no longer be bound by any canon, where in fact we the players could shape the story by our actions..... And since we all know more players play as Empire.....maybe at last the sith could win and destroy the republic

 

Wasnt the new republic established after the Battle of Endor?

 

you'll have to forgive my ignorance on the subject, I tried to read up on the star wars universe post-movies, but when I found out the Emperor wasn't truely killed I just didnt bother because it made the original trilogy feel insignificant.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Daelric

[Imperatorek]

Well there is a "new republic" that exist after the canon story in the films end. What I meant was that we could play the story after everything in the films and books were over, so anything could happen and be "canonical".

 

And that the Emperor didnt die, doesnt make the movies story "non-canon". Imagine that the Emperor got banished into some sleep-like state and hidden from the universe by a a group of all the most powerful Jedi..... Or that the Emperor while pursuing more power accidentaly made some mistake in a ritual that made him "join the force" in a way that made him struggle for 1000s of years to get back to his body that got "hidden" by his sith followers.... hidden so well that neither Darth Bane or the later Sith including Sidious had a clue that the Emperor is still "alive" with a chance to return......

[Emmerick]

The only reason why I think sidious is the strongest is because he was smart as well as powerful. From reading the Darth Plagueis book, the way he went about getting into power was more intelligent than trying to kill everything and get power that way. Vitiate to me is definitely the most intense when it comes to force power though for sure so i agree with op to some degree.

[jiggsy]

Removed Edited March 15, 2012 by jiggsy
deleting

[Daelric]

Well there is a "new republic" that exist after the canon story in the films end. What I meant was that we could play the story after everything in the films and books were over, so anything could happen and be "canonical".

 

And that the Emperor didnt die, doesnt make the movies story "non-canon". Imagine that the Emperor got banished into some sleep-like state and hidden from the universe by a a group of all the most powerful Jedi..... Or that the Emperor while pursuing more power accidentaly made some mistake in a ritual that made him "join the force" in a way that made him struggle for 1000s of years to get back to his body that got "hidden" by his sith followers.... hidden so well that neither Darth Bane or the later Sith including Sidious had a clue that the Emperor is still "alive" with a chance to return......

 

Oh, sorry when I said "emperor" I meant Sidious.

[Rayla_Felana]

People need to read Dark Empire, seriously.

[Rothlain]

Some people have touched on this a bit. But the real proof is that Palpatine is the one and only Sith to ever rule the entire galaxy. So...he was in a sense all powerful.

 

Also Revan (with some help) almost beat him until he was betrayed. I don't think this Sith Emperor has done much to prove he is more powerful than say Ragnos or even Sadow, otherwise he would have ruled the Sith Empire long before the Great Hyperspace War.

 

Ragnos lived 1000 years and ruled the SE. And his spirit hasn't been killed as far as I know. Sadow was able to manipulate sunspot cycles and create solar flares from a star. Sure the Sith Emperor can feed on planetary life force, extending his own life. But that's really all he has going for him.

 

So my evidence posted is: Palpatine actually RULED the galaxy. Marka Ragnos must have been more powerful otherwise Vitiate would have challenged him in the old Sith Empire. And Naga Sadow can control stars (literally star wars).

Edited March 15, 2012 by Rothlain

[Asturias]

Vitiate may have had more raw power, but Sidious was the better Sith.

 

It took Vitiate over 1000 years to conquer HALF of the republic, while it took Sidious a couple decades of scheming to take over ALL OF IT. Yes, Vitiate may have been able to out-lightning Sidious, but that's not the quality that should make him better, seeing as he was probably born with such ridiculous raw power.

 

/end of discussion.

[Deviss]

Lord Vitiate: the ultimate ****** or the mary sue-like character?

 

Before you even consider to join this endless debate, I strongly suggest you make yourself familiar with this following short text:

 

Q: Who’s stronger – Darth Bane, Darth Revan or Darth Vader?

A: It’s a tie. Seriously, I can’t answer this. First, it’s not really up to me to make that kind of call. Second, it really depends on the situation. You can probably find rule books for various Star Wars role-playing games that will give you stats allowing you to compare relative strength. But from an artistic and dramatic standpoint, this kind of question has no “right” answer. Each character has strengths and weaknesses, and they grow and change as their stories progress. On any given day, at any given time, under any given circumstance anyone can win or lose. That’s what dramatic conflict is all about.

Source: Drew Karpyshyn's website FAQ

 

Now, to begin with - I am aware that George Lucas, the creater of Star Wars universe stated the following fact: Palpatine is the most powerful sith lord to ever live. Period. So this sentence alone should technically disqualify all arguments against Vitiate being superior to Sidious. Lucas has the final say in those things.

 

On top of that, let me show you some direct quotes from the official canon sources:

 

"The Rebels were turning out to be more troublesome than many had expected. The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith to have ever existed."

-- Death Star, page 76. Emphasis mine.

 

"...Yoda could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."

-- The New Essential Chronology, page ??? (I don't own the book). Emphasis mine.

 

"Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting."

-- The Complete Visual Dictionary, page 72.

 

Page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

 

"Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned."

 

 

But hold on...

 

 

When Sidious was labeled as the 'most powerful sith lord ever', Vitiate's character was not even invented yet. You have to realize that the Star Wars universe is constantly expanding - some stuff will get retconned to lesser or greater extent. It is inevitable. As the time passes, some new, far more powerful character than Vitiate might be created. Noone is arguing with that. Actually that is the whole point I am trying to make here.

 

But for the time being, just read "Revan" novel and play through Jedi Knight's whole storyline and after you do those things ask yourself who is really more powerful - Vitiate or Sidious.

 

Here is some very intriguing quote from codex entry related to the Emperor and his ultimate plan:

 

Every decision the Sith Emperor has made for the last millennium has been in the service of one dark goal: the complete annihilation of every living thing in the galaxy. The Emperor's desire is not destruction for its own sake, however. He is not a nihilist. The Emperor intends to feed on the galaxy's extinction and draw that energy into himself, giving him true immortality--and a godlike mastery of the Force.

The Jedi can only speculate on what the Emperor will do if his plan succeeds. Does he intend to preserve any followers, or live on alone? With such unlimited power, could he plant the seeds of life and raise a new galaxy from the old one's ashes?

 

Basically the Emperor wants to exterminate every living being in the galaxy by performing a ritual that will begin on the planet Belsavis. He will consume entire life present on Belsavis and after that, nothing will stop him. Of course Jedi Knight i.e. the player stops him. If Vitiate's plans would succeed and if he would have managed to sustain his ritual by ensuring the death of trillions, he would become as it says in the codex: godlike.

 

After you find out more about the Emperor you realize what kind of creature of pure evil he is. The way he speaks, everything about him is just terrifying and causes chills to go down your spine. I mean, he killed a sith lord when he was like what, twelve years old? When he was an infant, his eyes were filled with terrible blackness and void (Wth?! Seriously, how sick and creepy is that?).

 

He is unlike any being that was ever born, when Lord Scourge who was a Sith Lord took a not even second long glimpse at the Emperor, he cried out like a child.

 

Let me give me you some quotes from the "Revan" novel about Vitiate:

 

"As he spoke, the dark circles of his eyes seemed to fill with a swirling red mist, and for a brief instant the Emperor gave Scourge a glimpse of his true self. Scourge cried out in anguish as the Emperor's mind brushed against his, then he collapsed to the floor, shaking like a child."

"Scourge expected them to search him, or at least instruct him to turn over his weapons. But Yarri and the others simply stood at attention, waiting for him to enter. The fact that they showed no concern over letting an armed Sith Lord speak to the Emperor face-to-face without any kind of preparation was a testament to the Emperor's unfathomable power. "

 

Some of his abilities on top of my head:

 

- Being able to perform most complex sith rituals ever attempted (consuming life of the entire planet - billions of lives beings destroyed in matters of seconds).

 

- Being immortal? "My life spans millennia. Legions have risen to test me. […] My ascendance is inevitable. A day, a year, a millennium—it matters not. I hold the patience of stone and the will of stars. Your striving is insignificant. Let your death be the same." - The Sith Emperor, to a lone Jedi sent to kill him. Also from what I understand, it is almost impossible to completely kill the Emperor. His essence will always live on, attempting to find another host it can possess. For sure the Emperor got some weakness that can be exploited in order to defeat him, as everyone, but noone knows what it is yet.

 

- Being able to mind control pretty much anyone (though it is possible to resist the Emperor, as an example: Revan being the proof of that).

 

I mean, don't get me wrong: Sidious definitely achieved a lot with his political capabilities, intellect and manipulation skills. But it's hard to be sure that he was more powerful than all other ancient sith lords who ever lived, or even his former master Darth Plagueis. Plagueis discovered the ultimate secret of immortality - Palpatine did not. Hell, Plagueis could even bend midi-chlorians to his own will in order to create life out of nothing - and he probably created the most powerful force user to ever exist. Palpatine knew that he could lose face to face duel with Plagueis so he used his cunning to kill him in his sleep. Also, I find it hard to believe that Palpatine could be even a match for Lord Vitiate. We know very little about the Sith Emperor (the TOR one) and yet it seemes that he is capable of wiping out entire life in the galaxy. I don't think Palpatine comes even close to that, all he gets are some over powered abilities that I do not know where and how he managed to learn/obtain. Sometimes I get the feeling that in Expanded Universe, Palpatine is really a mary sue-like character. Seriously, who can create hyperspace wormholes? Sidious in EU is just absurd. I am sorry to say this but it is true. I love his character but some authors just crossed the line. Yes, Vitiate got some OP abilities in his arsenal as well, but I would say that his back-story allowes us to imagine that he is actually capable of such prowess. A for Palpatine that is not the case, at least for me.

 

You also have to look at this from another angle. Lets say that Sidious could defeat Vitiate in face to face duel (or the other way) but what about other skills? Palpatine managed to transform the Republic into his own Galactic Empire and at the same time do something no sith ever managed - wipe out almost entire jedi order. Vitiate on the other hand also accomplished something to behold. He escaped with handful of morally broke people and over the course of thousand years managed to create the most powerful empire to ever exist. He created entire civilization from literally nothing. It all comes down to your very own definition of power. Power can vary a lot you know... Also, I think it is safe to assume that the Galactic Empire from the original Star Wars movies is based on Vitiate's Empire. I know that in reality it is the other way around, but in our fantasy world The Great Galactic war occured way BEFORE The Galactic Civil war.

 

I tried to keep this article/debate as non-biased as possible, attempting to show you both sides of the picture but as you probably noticed by now, my personal opinion on this matter is as following: Sidious is overrated. There you go, I said it! I know I may get bashed for this. If you want to call me a Vitiate fanboy, feel free to do so. I just think that he is the one who deserves the title of the most powerful sith lord. He is the ultimate ****** - nothing to add here.

 

To hell with being objective! It is impossible to avoid some dose of subjectivism. Just two small things I noticed that I wanted to add to the whole discussion:

 

If Palpatine is so mighty and exceptional duelist, how come he lost to Mace Windu? Yes, I know that Windu is "one of the finest swordsman of the jedi order" and all. But still, Sidious lost. And don't tell me that he would have won without Anakin's interference because it is clearly not what movie portrays.

 

Also, some people say that Palpatine's 'lightning bolts' are the most powerful ones in whole SW universe. It's one of the arguments for Palpatine's superiority over Vitiate. I mean, really? He electrocuted Luke Skywalker with them for like half an hour and the guy still managed to survive. And no, Palpatine was not playing with Luke or attempting to influence his will. He decided to kill Skywalker because he understood that he could not turn him to the dark side, this line kind of confirmed that: "The Emperor: And now, young Skywalker... you will die." (at least that is how I interpreted this scene from RotJ). Anyway, just read what I wrote before about Sith Emperor, (information coming from OFFICIAL GAME CODEX). Could Palpatine really become godlike like Vitiate and create new galaxy from the ashes by himself? Could he wipe out entire life in the galaxy? I don't think those statements are mere hyperbols. I mean, while they never actually happened, Vitiate indeed had potential to perform them and was in fact very close in doing so if it weren't for the invervention of Jedi Knight.

 

And most important of all, was Palpatine really immortal as well as Vitiate? Immortal meaning actually IMMORTAL - from what I know he needed to use clones in order to prelong his life (I don't know a lot about EU post EP6 tbh so I may be wrong about that).

 

I know I am repeating myself but when you read "Revan" novel and play through JK's storyline you get this feeling about the Sith Emperor - he is like this terrible being of pure darkness and void, almost not human but monster. You don't get the same feeling with Palpatine (at least I don't feel this way about his character). Palpatine is just an ordinary person (well, you know what I mean). I am not saying that he is not a powerful sith lord who accomplished A LOT, but to me he is clearly not even half as 'terrifying' as Vitiate.

 

I am pretty sure that it is BioWare's intention to make us feel that Vitiate is in fact the most powerful, evil and dangerous sith/living being to ever exist (including the movies and all post EP6 expanded universe).

 

Still, as I said before - it all comes down to your subjective opinion and the way you interpret canon lore. It's a fantasy world, you can think whatever you want! As far as I am concerned, you may claim ewok that helped Leia (was he called Wicket?) to be more powerful than both Vitiate and Sidious together.

[MrDeas]

Without getting into a debate about authorial intent, which I assume we are assuming a new-criticist stance (this makes me happy).

 

It took Vitiate over 1000 years to conquer HALF of the republic, while it took Sidious a couple decades of scheming to take over ALL OF IT. Yes, Vitiate may have been able to out-lightning Sidious, but that's not the quality that should make him better, seeing as he was probably born with such ridiculous raw power.

 

I have to say I agree with your method. You have to judge them by what they achieved. One man's fighting power doesn't win a war, even a Jedi/Sith. As we are able to look back in hindsight we have to look at who had the most significant impact on the galaxy and how they accomplished that.

 

This is a very complex question because Sidious was at a time when the Sith were much more organised and focused on the end goal. Therefore, all of his accomplishments built upon the work of Plagius and obviously Bane. Moreover, he was the son of a noble family and happened to be starting as a Diplomat when Plagius approached him. These types of issues helped Sidious to achieve his end goal.

 

However, Vitiate started with nothing in a sense. His legitimate father shunned him and he worked for everything he had. Then after the end of 'The Great Hyperspace War' he again started from virtually nothing to build the Empire up.

 

Due to this you can't really judge them fairly as they operated in completely different times and a completely different starting points. However it's worth a try:

 

As we see Vitiate shows both tact and military prowess. He was even able to influence Revan who I consider to be one of the most strong minded Jedi which is displayed by the way that he thinks for himself and doesn't get bogged down in ideology. But that's a different discussion. In my opinion Vitiate would have been able to accomplish the same things had he been in Sidious position.

 

Sidious however, never had to go against such opposition. The only thing I can think of specifically that would give him an edge over Vitiate in achieving his goals would be that he was able to mask the fact he was a Dark Lord of the Sith so well from the Jedi despite spending so much time in close contact with them. But I'm not convinced Vitiate wouldn't be able to accomplish this if he had wanted to.

 

Because of this I'd have to side that Vitiate is more powerful as although we can speculate that Sidious would have been able to accomplish the same he never needs to display it. From this perspective at least it appears to be a clear winner. Unless that is someone else can point out some evidence that I've missed which would suggest I'm overlooking how Sidious fared as someone able to create progress.

 

p.s. sorry for any grammatical errors or general bad wording as I'm tired atm

[Lyriczz]

Ok lets put down facts here on who is the most powerful sith lord ever.

 

I understand Gl cannon says Sidious is the greatest Sith Lord ever..

 

However actions speak louder than words.

 

PROVE IT.

 

Here is my arguement support your with actions the said Sith Lord has done and we can compare... I copied this from a post I found online which backs up what I was trying to find.

 

The most powerful being in Star Wars Extended Universe (canonical information only) has to be the Sith Emperor (Lord Vitiate, aka Emperor Tenebrae). Despite anything you can find on the internet, Lord Vitiate was the only one to achieve immortality (for as long as we know, he still lived during the Legacy Era, even though he “disappeared” to follow his own purposes thousands of years ago). He was capable of ****** off hundreds of the most powerful sith lords' souls at the same time, as well as the entire life of a whole planet at the same time (he was ever the only Sith Lord to have the knowledge and the power to perform the ritual). The only other being capable of destroying all life on a planet with his bare power was Darth Nihilus. But unlike him, Vitiate was able to kill instantly (and even absorb) many powerful Force-mastering beings at once (Nihilus died at the hand of only 2 Jedi).

 

Vitiate killed his father using the Force when he was 6 and without any training. At the same age, he tortured his mother to death, using only the Force. At 11 he killed, still with no training, the Sith Lord of his planet, taking his place under Ragno’s reign.

His power quite seemed unlimited. A prophecy tells that someday a Jedi will be able to kill him. But it still never happened in the canonical Star Wars universe. Luke Skywalker, who was the most powerful Jedi of all time, died without even having heard of him. As far as we know, he could as well has become a god during Luke’s time.

He beated even death itself, I really wonder how another being could ever has been as powerful as he was. And to people thinking Darth Sidious was the most powerful Sith, i’d just answer that 100 simultaneous Darth Sidious would only have fed Vitiate for a few seconds, as his history showed.

 

One last thing he was never interested in leading the Empire he was only interested in furthering his knowledge of the Dark Side he was also self taught Sith Lord with no master. He killed the strongerst Sith Lord in the planet he lived in at age 11 which was his real father.

 

I don't want to hear authors comments or what cannon stated with no facts backing it up. I want proof.

 

For crying out loud Sidious isnt even alive anymore and Vitiate is mofre thasn still alive he is IMMORTAL MY FRIENDS.

 

THE only SITH WHO TRULY FREED HIS CHAINS OF MORTALITY AND BECAME IMMORTAL THROUGH THE DARK SIDE.

 

SIDIOUS FAILED AND DIED HOW IS HE MORE POWERFUL...

 

 

Hes AN IDIOT!!!

 

THIS IS A CHALLENGE AGAINST CANNON!

 

 

Im not sure on anything in the Star Wars universe, i just play the game to have fun, but this interests me. To be fair to you, you obviously know your stuff. I commend you for your interest in this SCI-FI, but please refrain from using the word 'FACT' in any singled out way with reference to anything about Star Wars because then i believe maybe you have overstepped the boundary between actual reality and Science Fiction who-har!.

 

I suggest that maybe not taking this so seriously and simply using your opinion to simply satisfy what you believe WOULD have been FACT, if STAR WARS was in fact reality, but then again if it was you wouldnt be typing your opinion into a Star Wars website, you would be living it.

 

I commend you for your endeavour into this subject, but bluntly put in actual reality, this fellow you talk about, the only way he is immortal is in words, and conversation between fans.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Im not sure on anything in the Star Wars universe, i just play the game to have fun, but this interests me. To be fair to you, you obviously know your stuff. I commend you for your interest in this SCI-FI, but please refrain from using the word 'FACT' in any singled out way with reference to anything about Star Wars because then i believe maybe you have overstepped the boundary between actual reality and Science Fiction who-har!.

 

I suggest that maybe not taking this so seriously and simply using your opinion to simply satisfy what you believe WOULD have been FACT, if STAR WARS was in fact reality, but then again if it was you wouldnt be typing your opinion into a Star Wars website, you would be living it.

 

I commend you for your endeavour into this subject, but bluntly put in actual reality, this fellow you talk about, the only way he is immortal is in words, and conversation between fans.

 

Hes using the word fact in the universe of Star Wars, the star wars universe is real it is there. Not in reality mind you, but its still there so hes using fact in that universe...so there are in-universe facts.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[VoxTheHero]

Lord Vitiate: the ultimate ****** or the mary sue-like character?

 

Before you even consider to join this endless debate, I strongly suggest you make yourself familiar with this following short text:

 

Q: Who’s stronger – Darth Bane, Darth Revan or Darth Vader?

A: It’s a tie. Seriously, I can’t answer this. First, it’s not really up to me to make that kind of call. Second, it really depends on the situation. You can probably find rule books for various Star Wars role-playing games that will give you stats allowing you to compare relative strength. But from an artistic and dramatic standpoint, this kind of question has no “right” answer. Each character has strengths and weaknesses, and they grow and change as their stories progress. On any given day, at any given time, under any given circumstance anyone can win or lose. That’s what dramatic conflict is all about.

Source: Drew Karpyshyn's website FAQ

 

Now, to begin with - I am aware that George Lucas, the creater of Star Wars universe stated the following fact: Palpatine is the most powerful sith lord to ever live. Period. So this sentence alone should technically disqualify all arguments against Vitiate being superior to Sidious. Lucas has the final say in those things.

 

On top of that, let me show you some direct quotes from the official canon sources:

 

"The Rebels were turning out to be more troublesome than many had expected. The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith to have ever existed."

-- Death Star, page 76. Emphasis mine.

 

"...Yoda could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."

-- The New Essential Chronology, page ??? (I don't own the book). Emphasis mine.

 

"Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting."

-- The Complete Visual Dictionary, page 72.

 

Page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

 

"Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned."

 

 

But hold on...

 

 

When Sidious was labeled as the 'most powerful sith lord ever', Vitiate's character was not even invented yet. You have to realize that the Star Wars universe is constantly expanding - some stuff will get retconned to lesser or greater extent. It is inevitable. As the time passes, some new, far more powerful character than Vitiate might be created. Noone is arguing with that. Actually that is the whole point I am trying to make here.

 

But for the time being, just read "Revan" novel and play through Jedi Knight's whole storyline and after you do those things ask yourself who is really more powerful - Vitiate or Sidious.

 

Here is some very intriguing quote from codex entry related to the Emperor and his ultimate plan:

 

Every decision the Sith Emperor has made for the last millennium has been in the service of one dark goal: the complete annihilation of every living thing in the galaxy. The Emperor's desire is not destruction for its own sake, however. He is not a nihilist. The Emperor intends to feed on the galaxy's extinction and draw that energy into himself, giving him true immortality--and a godlike mastery of the Force.

The Jedi can only speculate on what the Emperor will do if his plan succeeds. Does he intend to preserve any followers, or live on alone? With such unlimited power, could he plant the seeds of life and raise a new galaxy from the old one's ashes?

 

Basically the Emperor wants to exterminate every living being in the galaxy by performing a ritual that will begin on the planet Belsavis. He will consume entire life present on Belsavis and after that, nothing will stop him. Of course Jedi Knight i.e. the player stops him. If Vitiate's plans would succeed and if he would have managed to sustain his ritual by ensuring the death of trillions, he would become as it says in the codex: godlike.

 

After you find out more about the Emperor you realize what kind of creature of pure evil he is. The way he speaks, everything about him is just terrifying and causes chills to go down your spine. I mean, he killed a sith lord when he was like what, twelve years old? When he was an infant, his eyes were filled with terrible blackness and void (Wth?! Seriously, how sick and creepy is that?).

 

He is unlike any being that was ever born, when Lord Scourge who was a Sith Lord took a not even second long glimpse at the Emperor, he cried out like a child.

 

Let me give me you some quotes from the "Revan" novel about Vitiate:

 

"As he spoke, the dark circles of his eyes seemed to fill with a swirling red mist, and for a brief instant the Emperor gave Scourge a glimpse of his true self. Scourge cried out in anguish as the Emperor's mind brushed against his, then he collapsed to the floor, shaking like a child."

"Scourge expected them to search him, or at least instruct him to turn over his weapons. But Yarri and the others simply stood at attention, waiting for him to enter. The fact that they showed no concern over letting an armed Sith Lord speak to the Emperor face-to-face without any kind of preparation was a testament to the Emperor's unfathomable power. "

 

Some of his abilities on top of my head:

 

- Being able to perform most complex sith rituals ever attempted (consuming life of the entire planet - billions of lives beings destroyed in matters of seconds).

 

- Being immortal? "My life spans millennia. Legions have risen to test me. […] My ascendance is inevitable. A day, a year, a millennium—it matters not. I hold the patience of stone and the will of stars. Your striving is insignificant. Let your death be the same." - The Sith Emperor, to a lone Jedi sent to kill him. Also from what I understand, it is almost impossible to completely kill the Emperor. His essence will always live on, attempting to find another host it can possess. For sure the Emperor got some weakness that can be exploited in order to defeat him, as everyone, but noone knows what it is yet.

 

- Being able to mind control pretty much anyone (though it is possible to resist the Emperor, as an example: Revan being the proof of that).

 

I mean, don't get me wrong: Sidious definitely achieved a lot with his political capabilities, intellect and manipulation skills. But it's hard to be sure that he was more powerful than all other ancient sith lords who ever lived, or even his former master Darth Plagueis. Plagueis discovered the ultimate secret of immortality - Palpatine did not. Hell, Plagueis could even bend midi-chlorians to his own will in order to create life out of nothing - and he probably created the most powerful force user to ever exist. Palpatine knew that he could lose face to face duel with Plagueis so he used his cunning to kill him in his sleep. Also, I find it hard to believe that Palpatine could be even a match for Lord Vitiate. We know very little about the Sith Emperor (the TOR one) and yet it seemes that he is capable of wiping out entire life in the galaxy. I don't think Palpatine comes even close to that, all he gets are some over powered abilities that I do not know where and how he managed to learn/obtain. Sometimes I get the feeling that in Expanded Universe, Palpatine is really a mary sue-like character. Seriously, who can create hyperspace wormholes? Sidious in EU is just absurd. I am sorry to say this but it is true. I love his character but some authors just crossed the line. Yes, Vitiate got some OP abilities in his arsenal as well, but I would say that his back-story allowes us to imagine that he is actually capable of such prowess. A for Palpatine that is not the case, at least for me.

 

You also have to look at this from another angle. Lets say that Sidious could defeat Vitiate in face to face duel (or the other way) but what about other skills? Palpatine managed to transform the Republic into his own Galactic Empire and at the same time do something no sith ever managed - wipe out almost entire jedi order. Vitiate on the other hand also accomplished something to behold. He escaped with handful of morally broke people and over the course of thousand years managed to create the most powerful empire to ever exist. He created entire civilization from literally nothing. It all comes down to your very own definition of power. Power can vary a lot you know... Also, I think it is safe to assume that the Galactic Empire from the original Star Wars movies is based on Vitiate's Empire. I know that in reality it is the other way around, but in our fantasy world The Great Galactic war occured way BEFORE The Galactic Civil war.

 

I tried to keep this article/debate as non-biased as possible, attempting to show you both sides of the picture but as you probably noticed by now, my personal opinion on this matter is as following: Sidious is overrated. There you go, I said it! I know I may get bashed for this. If you want to call me a Vitiate fanboy, feel free to do so. I just think that he is the one who deserves the title of the most powerful sith lord. He is the ultimate ****** - nothing to add here.

 

To hell with being objective! It is impossible to avoid some dose of subjectivism. Just two small things I noticed that I wanted to add to the whole discussion:

 

If Palpatine is so mighty and exceptional duelist, how come he lost to Mace Windu? Yes, I know that Windu is "one of the finest swordsman of the jedi order" and all. But still, Sidious lost. And don't tell me that he would have won without Anakin's interference because it is clearly not what movie portrays.

 

Also, some people say that Palpatine's 'lightning bolts' are the most powerful ones in whole SW universe. It's one of the arguments for Palpatine's superiority over Vitiate. I mean, really? He electrocuted Luke Skywalker with them for like half an hour and the guy still managed to survive. And no, Palpatine was not playing with Luke or attempting to influence his will. He decided to kill Skywalker because he understood that he could not turn him to the dark side, this line kind of confirmed that: "The Emperor: And now, young Skywalker... you will die." (at least that is how I interpreted this scene from RotJ). Anyway, just read what I wrote before about Sith Emperor, (information coming from OFFICIAL GAME CODEX). Could Palpatine really become godlike like Vitiate and create new galaxy from the ashes by himself? Could he wipe out entire life in the galaxy? I don't think those statements are mere hyperbols. I mean, while they never actually happened, Vitiate indeed had potential to perform them and was in fact very close in doing so if it weren't for the invervention of Jedi Knight.

 

And most important of all, was Palpatine really immortal as well as Vitiate? Immortal meaning actually IMMORTAL - from what I know he needed to use clones in order to prelong his life (I don't know a lot about EU post EP6 tbh so I may be wrong about that).

 

I know I am repeating myself but when you read "Revan" novel and play through JK's storyline you get this feeling about the Sith Emperor - he is like this terrible being of pure darkness and void, almost not human but monster. You don't get the same feeling with Palpatine (at least I don't feel this way about his character). Palpatine is just an ordinary person (well, you know what I mean). I am not saying that he is not a powerful sith lord who accomplished A LOT, but to me he is clearly not even half as 'terrifying' as Vitiate.

 

I am pretty sure that it is BioWare's intention to make us feel that Vitiate is in fact the most powerful, evil and dangerous sith/living being to ever exist (including the movies and all post EP6 expanded universe).

 

Still, as I said before - it all comes down to your subjective opinion and the way you interpret canon lore. It's a fantasy world, you can think whatever you want! As far as I am concerned, you may claim ewok that helped Leia (was he called Wicket?) to be more powerful than both Vitiate and Sidious together.

 

Bumping this chap's post, it's got a fair counter arguement.

[Wolfninjajedi]

There is no opinion when it comes from the creator's mouth, Palpatine is the strongest sith to ever live. As I recall, the ancient sith lords bowed to him and he can do far more then Vitiate can without the use of rituals just by his own power. So until Lucas says otherwise, it is a canon fact that Sidious is the strongest sith lord ever.

 

And yes Palpatine WAS torturing Luke with lighting, don't twist words. It wasn't until he said "and now young Skywalker...you will die.." that he decided to use full power but by that time Vader saved Luke.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Deviss]

There is no opinion when it comes from the creator's mouth, Palpatine is the strongest sith to ever live.

 

/Sigh is it so hard for some people to understand that when GL stated this, Vitiate was not present in the star wars lore? Hell, it is possible that he was not even "sketched"/thought of back then.

[Wolfninjajedi]

/Sigh is it so hard for some people to understand that when GL stated this, Vitiate was not present in the star wars lore? Hell, it is possible that he was not even "sketched"/thought of back then.

 

When he says "of all time" it doesn't matter if Vitiate was present or was not, Sidious is the strongest.

[Rayla_Felana]

When he says "of all time" it doesn't matter if Vitiate was present or was not, Sidious is the strongest.

 

This.

 

Only if Lucas himself states otherwise, can it ever be true that a Sith other than Sidious, is most powerful, this I can tell you, is never going to happen, as Lucas has retired from Star Wars.

 

Even if you go past Lucas's statement, Sidious' canon abilities far surpass Vitiate's.

 

Again, go and read about Palpatine Reborn's powers, he makes Vitiate look like a child with a shiny gun.

[GusVIII]

This.

 

Only if Lucas himself states otherwise, can it ever be true that a Sith other than Sidious, is most powerful, this I can tell you, is never going to happen, as Lucas has retired from Star Wars.

 

Even if you go past Lucas's statement, Sidious' canon abilities far surpass Vitiate's.

 

Again, go and read about Palpatine Reborn's powers, he makes Vitiate look like a child with a shiny gun.

 

Since when has Lucas retired from Star Wars? He's still producing and coming up with stories for the Clone Wars TV series. As for this whole Sidious vs. Vitiate, I'm going to base my opinion on face value. Sidious was definitely the most cunning Sith Lord to ever live, having managed to use his abilities to conquer the Republic from the inside. Which resulted in what was undoubtedly the largest Sith Empire in history. But as for his personal power, I just don't see how Sidious is more powerful then Vitiate.

 

Look at their backgrounds. Sidious basically started as a spoiled, power hungry noble who was lucky enough to catch the attention of Darth Plagueis. Vitiate on the other hand was like a hell spawn from the very beginning, coldly killing both his parents when he was a child. He became immortal by sucking the life out of an entire planet. And his ultimate goal is to do the same on a galactic scale.

 

Sidious' way of achieving immortality was through the use of clone bodies. Not nearly as effective as what Vitiate did. The clone bodies had to be replaced often, and if someone managed to destroy his supply, which did happen, he'd be screwed. Sidious may have been powerful, but he didn't pose nearly as much danger to all life in the galaxy as Vitiate did. In truth, I don't think Sidious even surpassed the likes of Revan or Nihilus in power.

 

However, the argument can be made that he was the greatest Sith Lord of all time, because he himself succeeded where others had failed. Conquering the whole of the Republic and eradicating the Jedi Order. Both having more to do with his scheming then his power.

Edited March 18, 2012 by GusVIII

[Wolfninjajedi]

Since when has Lucas retired from Star Wars? He's still producing and coming up with stories for the Clone Wars TV series. As for this whole Sidious vs. Vitiate, I'm going to base my opinion on face value. Sidious was definitely the most cunning Sith Lord to ever live, having managed to use his abilities to conquer the Republic from the inside. Which resulted in what was undoubtedly the largest Sith Empire in history. But as for his personal power, I just don't see how Sidious is more powerful then Viviate.

 

Look at their backgrounds. Sidious basically started as a spoiled, power hungry noble who was lucky enough to catch the attention of Darth Plagueis. Viviate on the other hand was like a hell spawn from the very beginning, coldly killing both his parents when he was a child. He became immortal by sucking the life out of an entire planet. And his ultimate goal is to do the same on a galactic scale.

 

Sidious' way of achieving immortality was through the use of clone bodies. Not nearly as effective as what Viviate did. The clone bodies had to be replaced often, and if someone managed to destroy his supply, which did happen, he'd be screwed. Sidious may have been powerful, but he didn't pose nearly as much danger to all life in the galaxy as Viviate did. In truth, I don't think Sidious even surpassed the likes of Revan or Nihilus in power.

 

However, the argument can be made that he was the greatest Sith Lord of all time, because he himself succeeded where others had failed. Conquering the whole of the Republic and eradicating the Jedi Order. Both having more to do with his scheming then his power.

 

Personal power?....Ok look at this.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine#Powers_and_abilities

 

Now compare those to Vitiate and you'll see Palpatine is superior.

[GusVIII]

Personal power?....Ok look at this.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine#Powers_and_abilities

 

Now compare those to Vitiate and you'll see Palpatine is superior.

 

What part of of suck the life out of the entire galaxy do you not understand?

[Wolfninjajedi]

What part of of suck the life out of the entire galaxy do you not understand?

 

What party of ripping holes, in the space-time continuum do you not understand?

Edited March 18, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Rayla_Felana]

Since when has Lucas retired from Star Wars? He's still producing and coming up with stories for the Clone Wars TV series. As for this whole Sidious vs. Vitiate, I'm going to base my opinion on face value. Sidious was definitely the most cunning Sith Lord to ever live, having managed to use his abilities to conquer the Republic from the inside. Which resulted in what was undoubtedly the largest Sith Empire in history. But as for his personal power, I just don't see how Sidious is more powerful then Vitiate.

 

Look at their backgrounds. Sidious basically started as a spoiled, power hungry noble who was lucky enough to catch the attention of Darth Plagueis. Vitiate on the other hand was like a hell spawn from the very beginning, coldly killing both his parents when he was a child. He became immortal by sucking the life out of an entire planet. And his ultimate goal is to do the same on a galactic scale.

 

Sidious' way of achieving immortality was through the use of clone bodies. Not nearly as effective as what Vitiate did. The clone bodies had to be replaced often, and if someone managed to destroy his supply, which did happen, he'd be screwed. Sidious may have been powerful, but he didn't pose nearly as much danger to all life in the galaxy as Vitiate did. In truth, I don't think Sidious even surpassed the likes of Revan or Nihilus in power.

 

However, the argument can be made that he was the greatest Sith Lord of all time, because he himself succeeded where others had failed. Conquering the whole of the Republic and eradicating the Jedi Order. Both having more to do with his scheming then his power.

 

You really don't understand what Sidious became did you?

 

Making force storms the size of wormholes.

 

Devouring entire global populations like it was a posh dinner on Byss, and they didn't even know it was happening.

 

He mindwiped an entire planet to hide a Star Destroyer,

 

He used Battle Meditation on the entire Empire throughout the galaxy before he even died in RotJ.

 

He was so powerful that his voice had an almost hypnotic lull to it.

 

Merely by existing he unbalanced the force and clouded the vision of the most powerful Jedi Order in history.

 

Whilst Vitiate could barely defeat Revan, Sidious was defeating the most powerful Jedi the Order had seen, Yoda.

 

He was also making Lightsaber Mastery look easy killing Seasee Tinn, Agen Kolar and Kit Fisto some of the best Lightsaber masters in the Order, and then going toe to toe with Mace Windu, the best lightsaber combatant the Galaxy had ever seen till Luke.

 

Vitiate could barely hold a lightsaber the right way in 'Revan'.

 

Oh and you can talk all you want about Vitiate eating planets, but don't forget, he did NOT devour Nathema from his own power, he needed the combined power of 200 Sith Lords to help him accomplish that feat, Sidious did practically the exact same thing, without effort and no help, on Byss.