I challenge GL cannon Vitiate VS ANY Emperor

[Zantul]

Ok lets put down facts here on who is the most powerful sith lord ever.

 

I understand Gl cannon says Sidious is the greatest Sith Lord ever..

 

However actions speak louder than words.

 

PROVE IT.

 

Here is my arguement support your with actions the said Sith Lord has done and we can compare... I copied this from a post I found online which backs up what I was trying to find.

 

The most powerful being in Star Wars Extended Universe (canonical information only) has to be the Sith Emperor (Lord Vitiate, aka Emperor Tenebrae). Despite anything you can find on the internet, Lord Vitiate was the only one to achieve immortality (for as long as we know, he still lived during the Legacy Era, even though he “disappeared” to follow his own purposes thousands of years ago). He was capable of ****** off hundreds of the most powerful sith lords' souls at the same time, as well as the entire life of a whole planet at the same time (he was ever the only Sith Lord to have the knowledge and the power to perform the ritual). The only other being capable of destroying all life on a planet with his bare power was Darth Nihilus. But unlike him, Vitiate was able to kill instantly (and even absorb) many powerful Force-mastering beings at once (Nihilus died at the hand of only 2 Jedi).

 

Vitiate killed his father using the Force when he was 6 and without any training. At the same age, he tortured his mother to death, using only the Force. At 11 he killed, still with no training, the Sith Lord of his planet, taking his place under Ragno’s reign.

His power quite seemed unlimited. A prophecy tells that someday a Jedi will be able to kill him. But it still never happened in the canonical Star Wars universe. Luke Skywalker, who was the most powerful Jedi of all time, died without even having heard of him. As far as we know, he could as well has become a god during Luke’s time.

He beated even death itself, I really wonder how another being could ever has been as powerful as he was. And to people thinking Darth Sidious was the most powerful Sith, i’d just answer that 100 simultaneous Darth Sidious would only have fed Vitiate for a few seconds, as his history showed.

 

One last thing he was never interested in leading the Empire he was only interested in furthering his knowledge of the Dark Side he was also self taught Sith Lord with no master. He killed the strongerst Sith Lord in the planet he lived in at age 11 which was his real father.

 

I don't want to hear authors comments or what cannon stated with no facts backing it up. I want proof.

 

For crying out loud Sidious isnt even alive anymore and Vitiate is mofre thasn still alive he is IMMORTAL MY FRIENDS.

 

THE only SITH WHO TRULY FREED HIS CHAINS OF MORTALITY AND BECAME IMMORTAL THROUGH THE DARK SIDE.

 

SIDIOUS FAILED AND DIED HOW IS HE MORE POWERFUL...

 

 

Hes AN IDIOT!!!

 

THIS IS A CHALLENGE AGAINST CANNON!

Edited January 19, 2012 by Zantul

[Zantul]

Nobody after I grew tired of everyone pulling on Bane's chain and Sidious??

 

COME AT ME BRO!!

[atheelogos]

I agree with ya man. He's clearly the strongest sith in history. I might go so far as to say he's the most powerful force user ever. j

 

Just goes to show that the darkside is stronger;)

 

Question though. Where did you get that he lives until the legacy era?

Edited January 19, 2012 by atheelogos

[GoodEnoughForMe]

The difficulty with comparison like this is the innate bias of the EU. Any character that has been thoroughly fleshed out, like Skywalker, Vader, Sidious, etc., particularly by the movies, is going to have to have flaws and weaknesses for the sake of plot. Skywalker has appeared in so much media that for everytime he displays an amazing feat of the Force, he is also almost defeated by a battle droid or some such.

 

Not only that, but power has changed over time. Not only is the EU operating with powers of the Force unheard of when Episodes IV-VI came out, but so are Episodes I-III. There was just no knowing where the EU would take off to back in the 70s and 80s. In Episode II, even, you have Anakin jumping out of a ship in mid-air above Coruscant. That didn't seem possible back when only IV-VI were out.

 

By specific actions alone, Vitiate probably is the most powerful, but cannon has pretty much stated that in the scheme of things, Sidious was the most powerful Sith at his time, and Darth Vader could have been, barring injury. It's just tough to corrobarate the data with so many different pieces of information, authors, characters, etc.

[Kargi]

The difficulty with comparison like this is the innate bias of the EU. Any character that has been thoroughly fleshed out, like Skywalker, Vader, Sidious, etc., particularly by the movies, is going to have to have flaws and weaknesses for the sake of plot. Skywalker has appeared in so much media that for everytime he displays an amazing feat of the Force, he is also almost defeated by a battle droid or some such.

 

Not only that, but power has changed over time. Not only is the EU operating with powers of the Force unheard of when Episodes IV-VI came out, but so are Episodes I-III. There was just no knowing where the EU would take off to back in the 70s and 80s. In Episode II, even, you have Anakin jumping out of a ship in mid-air above Coruscant. That didn't seem possible back when only IV-VI were out.

 

By specific actions alone, Vitiate probably is the most powerful, but cannon has pretty much stated that in the scheme of things, Sidious was the most powerful Sith at his time, and Darth Vader could have been, barring injury. It's just tough to corrobarate the data with so many different pieces of information, authors, characters, etc.

 

ignore this i misread the post

Edited January 19, 2012 by Kargi

[Zantul]

I agree with ya man. He's clearly the strongest sith in history. I might go so far as to say he's the most powerful force user ever. j

 

Just goes to show that the darkside is stronger;)

 

Question though. Where did you get that he lives until the legacy era?

 

He is still alive my friend. He is immortal.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_Emperor

 

After 1400 years of leading the Empire he simply walked away in search of other goals of his own.

[Gestahlt]

It's proven by the laws of canon.

 

You see.

 

C-canon stated (in The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia) that Sidious is the most powerful Sith lord to ever live. In fiction, words are actions.

 

That's all the proof anyone needs. You're wrong. The end. If you don't like it, join a different fandom.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Gestahlt

[Zantul]

It's proven by the laws of canon.

 

You see.

 

C-canon stated (in The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia) that Sidious is the most powerful Sith lord to ever live. In fiction, words are actions.

 

That's all the proof anyone needs. You're wrong. The end. If you don't like it, join a different fandom.

 

I want facts not what some author who can't add up someones actions to prove something.

 

I said I dont want to HEAR GL CANNON. I AM CHALLENGING IT! READ THE TITLE GENIUS

 

PROVE IT.

[Gestahlt]

I don't have to. You have no authority. The system states who is strongest. It is not the Sith Emperor. In fact, he's a pale imitation of others.

 

If you just look at Sidious' wookie page, he dwarfs your fan made nonsense:

In addition to his lightsaber combat skills, Darth Sidious was considered to be one of the greatest Force users of all time, described as a "Black hole of the Dark Side."[17] Palpatine was a master of Force lightning and was known to use this both as a lethal attack, and as a way of torturing his enemies.[3] In addition, he could use this power to light up the surface of a an entire planet.[118] He was also extremely skilled with telekinesis; during his battle with Yoda, he levitated several Senate pods simultaneously, including the one he was standing on, with incredible dexterity and precision.[9] Likewise, he was skilled enough with telekinesis that he was also able to remove Luke Skywalker's restraints while barely even lifting his finger when meeting face to face on the Death star.[3] Sidious was a master of Force speed, implementing it into his fighting style and allowing him to move so quickly that his opponents would often find themselves unable to react in time.[17] Darth Sidious also possessed the power of Force Flight.[80]

Sidious was also the only known being capable of producing a Force storm of his own power, a dark side technique which he himself discovered. Using his anger and his will, Palpatine was able to rip the space-time continuum and create a hyperspace wormhole. It should be noted that even though he claimed to be able to conjure a storm simply by willing it, by his own admission he was not able to fully control it. By 10 ABY, however, the Emperor believed himself fully capable of controlling a Force storm, and it took Luke and Leia's combined efforts through the light side to turn his dark side creation against him.[119]

 

Another very dangerous and advanced Force technique utilized by the Emperor was the ability to use the Force to transfer his essence, as well as the essences of others, which he used to survive death on at least two occasions.[4] He had a supply of clone bodies ready to house his spirit until the last one succumbed to his own corrupting power and the sabotage of his subordinates.[120] He also, when taking over a host's body, overwrote the soul and personality of the being to fully dominate over it. He used this power not only as a pathway to immortality, but also as a particularly cruel and sadistic form of torture; it is known that he killed and resurrected Imperial engineer Bevel Lemelisk seven times as punishment for the destruction of the first and second Death Stars.[13]

 

Among the Emperor's powers was the ability to channel the collective life essences of billions to sustain himself and his Dark Side Adepts; his victims would live in a dream-like state while his own power grew. The entire population of Byss lived under this spell until the planet's destruction by the Galaxy Gun.[121] It was mentioned by Luke Skywalker that the Emperor's very voice had a hypnotic lull to it whenever he was outwardly projecting his dark side Force powers. Darth Sidious was highly adept at foreseeing the future, often utilizing the power to see his plots to fruition, ensuring that all would proceed as he had envisioned.[3] Furthermore, Sidious was a master of Force stealth, able to hide his dark nature from the Jedi Order for many years before allowing himself to be discovered. Sidious was so powerful in the dark side that he was able to cloud the Jedi's vision, making it exceedingly difficult to predict future events.[8]

 

Upon spending decades immersing himself in the many facets of the Force, it was believed that Palpatine had a mastery over all known powers, previously unknown powers, and could create new abilities on a whim.[106] By the time of his final death, he had become a nexus of the dark side capable of tearing apart the fabric of space.[119]

 

"Conquer the temptation to create specimens that are superior in every way. The danger of such monstrosities being turned against you is too great."

―Palpatine, from The Creation of Monsters.[src]

Palpatine was a master of Sith alchemy, an ancient art he was taught by Darth Plagueis.[9][71] He wrote about alchemy in The Creation of Monsters, the unfinished last part of his Dark Side Compendium. He rediscovered the long-forgotten art of creating chrysalides, and used it to alchemically alter rancors into fearsome chrysalis beasts used as pets at his Citadel on Byss.[122] He also created Shadow Droids, hybrid mechanic/organic starfighters controlled by his own will, used against the Republic after his return in a clone body.[120] He may have also used alchemy to hide his true face from the Jedi and the rest of the galaxy as a senator and Chancellor of the Republic.[123]

In the end, only four known beings have been capable of combating Darth Sidious on equal terms without aid: Mace Windu, Yoda, Galen Marek and Luke Skywalker.

 

The ability to create wormholes, destroy entire planets with force storms, and create his own force techniques places him leagues above anyone else.

 

You're done.

[Waking]

Love it how they managed to make the JK's story completely pointless... if at least it was any good and not an absolutely terrible piece of writing, but not even that...

[Zantul]

I don't have to. You have no authority. The system states who is strongest. It is not the Sith Emperor. In fact, he's a pale imitation of others.

 

If you just look at Sidious' wookie page, he dwarfs your fan made nonsense:

 

 

The ability to create wormholes, destroy entire planets with force storms, and create his own force techniques places him leagues above anyone else.

 

You're done.

 

Sidious died and Viatate lives... How is your cannon helping you know... Viatate destroyed a planet and used it to make himself immortal....

 

Sidious only had destructive powers but his little cloning business backfired while Luke screwed him DEAD..

 

How is that more powerfull then someone who has been alive for THOUSANDS of years?

 

He destroyed a planet with his mastery of the force and didnt need a DEATH STAR!!!

 

Im sorry to even beging to argue you will have to find someone immortal. Not someone who did similar things to Viatate.

[Zantul]

LOL let me laugh before I put this LOL!!!

 

In the end, only four known beings have been capable of combating Darth Sidious on equal terms without aid: Mace Windu, Yoda, Galen Marek and Luke Skywalker.

 

Are you serious?? GL cannon is smoking weed im sorry....

[Gestahlt]

You seem to equate with living a long time with power.

 

So in your definition of the word power, someone that is very old is powerful. Okay.

 

In the terms of "power is the ability to affect/control others", it is Sidious that wins handily. You're still wrong.

 

Again, this is summed up in TCSWE.

[Zantul]

You seem to equate with living a long time with power.

 

So in your definition of the word power, someone that is very old is powerful. Okay.

 

In the terms of "power is the ability to affect/control others", it is Sidious that wins handily. You're still wrong.

 

Again, this is summed up in TCSWE.

 

Ok I guess we do define power to me true power is immortality.

 

The is the Sith Code....

 

What the Sith believe in...

 

Making do others what you want is also something Viatate did and to thousands of Sith Lords in order to become immortal..

 

Hell 5 Jedi Masters from the Jedi council came to fight him and with a THOUGHT he turned them into his mindless minnions...

 

So he succeded where Sidious failed in truly becoming immortal...

 

That to me means he is more powerful. You can be the master of everything under the sun but if you fail to TRULY HAVE YOUR CHAINS FREED ! By casting aside your mortality and asceding into the next level which is GOD status HELL yes my friend THAT IS TRUE POWER....

 

He succeded where Sidious failed.

 

Do I need to recite the Sith code??

[Gestahlt]

The Sith Code never says "live forever and you're powerful".

[Zantul]

The Sith Code never says "live forever and you're powerful".

 

Here allow me to help you understand the Sith Code.. Maybe GL doesnt grasp it as well as I do...

This is from the SW wiki BTW...

 

The true meaning of the line "…my chains are broken" was a subject of argument among many Sith. The chains represented a being's restrictions; not just a Sith but any being in the universe. The restrictions could be those placed upon a being by someone else, or restrictions that one placed upon oneself. The ultimate goal of any Sith was to free himself from such restrictions, but not (as many failed Sith pupils believed) in the simplistic meaning of just being able to do whatever he wanted. The Sith desired to free themselves in order to reach perfection and fulfill their potential. They wanted perfect strength, perfect power, and perfect destiny, which, in turn, allowed one to do whatever they wanted for the most part.

 

Power is being able to do anything you want to do.

 

 

 

Destruction only serves to destroy things.

 

 

 

An immortal can spend unlimited amounts of time figuring out how to achieve his desire. This grants him almost unimaginable power.

 

 

 

Even water can erode and destroy anything given time.

 

 

So viatate can still do everythnig Sidious has done and more because he has TRUE POWER which is immortality.

 

I know we can go back and forth on this but give me till the end of time and the universe and by then I will own the entire place..

 

He got bored of leading the council and walked away from the seat of power after 1400 years.

 

 

 

To me he ascended into GOD status.

 

 

 

In his own words

 

 

 

"My life spans millennia. Legions have risen to test me. […] My ascendance is inevitable. A day, a year, a millennium—it matters not. I hold the patience of stone and the will of stars. Your striving is insignificant. Let your death be the same."

 

 

 

He ascended my friends that is why he walked awy from the throne of power because he was granted the GIFT OF THE DARK SIDE…

 

 

 

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.

 

Through passion, I gain strength.

 

Through strength, I gain power.

 

Through power, I gain victory.

 

Through victory, my chains are broken.

 

The Force shall free me.

 

 

 

If you are free from Mortality then to me you are TRULY FREE TO PURSUE ABSOLUTE PERFECTION AND BE GOD..

 

 

 

Free from the chains of death which holds back every mortal!

 

I know we can go back and forth on this but you have to admit having all the time you need to accomplish something is powerful. Hell look at the gods can we kill them?

 

No why because they are so damn powerful they are immortal..

 

Any and all Dark Lords coveted this power only he succesed to truly be free and live for eternity..

 

He is looking at us all now laughing it up

[Rhyltran]

A FEW SPOILERS TREAD CAUTIOUSLY

 

 

 

 

Immortal doesn't mean invincible. Immortal is the ability to potentially live forever. Vitiate is immortal but isn't invincible. We also do know he dies as he doesn't exist in the later Canon. Sidious was immortal as well. He didn't need clone bodies. He could transfer his essence into anything. He used clone bodies because he preferred his own body. So he made replica's of his body in his physical prime and used those. In the very end he decided to transfer his essence into Anakin Solo.

 

It took another Jedi to step in the way and force Sidious to become one with the force. Again, Sidious was using the essence transfer ability. He'd transfer his essence into another being to live on through them. This IS immortality.

 

Sidious had the ability to drain the life of billions of beings at once. Much like Vitiate. He simply didn't consume them entirely and he didn't need a ritual to make himself immortal. Sidious was able to mind wipe billions of people at once. We never see Vitiate performing something on that large of a scale.

 

A ritual requires time and effort to put into action and a lot of preparation. Vitiate consuming a planet isn't a combat ability. He wouldn't be able to do this to Sidious. The sith lords he stole the life from were willing participants of Vitiate's ritual. So this isn't comparable.

 

Sidious was able to release wormholes in the middle of combat. These were capable of destroying planets though he never used them in such a manner. He did however use them to destroy an entire starfleet.

 

Sidious was a master of all the saber styles and forms. He was also described moving, as emperor reborn, faster than the eye can see. We have no description of Vitiate being able to do this. We have no knowledge of his saber performance. Going by lack of evidence we can't compare vitiate's saber abilities to Sidious.

 

Vitiate has been said to use artifacts and relics to bolster his power. Sidious does not use relics or artifacts. Vitiate is said to control other bodies while his main body is hidden away. This gives the assumption his main body is vulnerable to destruction. Sidious transported Luke who was on another planet to his side.

 

Sidious managed to take control of the entire republic and turn it into his empire. Sidious does not need to sleep. Sidious has been shown to have the most powerful force lightning in existence. If Sidious dies before he can transfer his essence he can do so as a spirit freely.

 

The emperor, as per the game once again, can not transfer bodies until his current one dies.

 

In effect. Vitiate uses a lot of trinkets and relics to bolster his power and Sidious does not. Despite that fact. Sidious has displayed far more power than Vitiate ever has. Your main argument is this.

 

"Vitiate had to use a ritual to destroy a planet" (Which Sidious can do without a ritual mind you) and he lived 1400 years. Set Harth lived 400 but was a weakling. Yoda lived 900 and wasn't as strong as Sidious. Anddedu also lived for well over a thousand years but was destroyed effortlessly by Darth Wyrrlok.

 

The sith code isn't about being immortal. It's about being free. The idea of a sith is to transcend physical limitations. In effect becoming Gods. One could argue sidious was the closest to achieve it. If it wasn't for Luke and his allies he would have.

 

Vitiate never had to contend with someone on Luke's level. Revan is not as powerful as Luke.

 

You also take destruction too lightly and if it's arguable you can't use it as fact. Arguable means opinion. Opinion isn't fact. If his ability to destroy is far beyond Vitiate's it means if he had to contend with Vitiate or Vitiate him Sidious would destroy him. Then his immortality would be gone.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Rhyltran

[Wolfninjajedi]

Plus Vitiate never truely achieved immortality, he had to drain the life of others to get it thats not really having the power of immortality thats just stealing someone's life and adding it to your own. Sidious however did achieve immortality because like Rhy said he could transfer his essense into pretty much anyone, the only thing he used was bodies he didn't rely on anyone's life force or what have you to maintain immortality. Edited January 19, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Duradel]

Vitiate may have had more raw power, but Sidious was the better Sith.

 

It took Vitiate over 1000 years to conquer HALF of the republic, while it took Sidious a couple decades of scheming to take over ALL OF IT. Yes, Vitiate may have been able to out-lightning Sidious, but that's not the quality that should make him better, seeing as he was probably born with such ridiculous raw power.

[Rhyltran]

Vitiate may have had more raw power, but Sidious was the better Sith.

 

It took Vitiate over 1000 years to conquer HALF of the republic, while it took Sidious a couple decades of scheming to take over ALL OF IT. Yes, Vitiate may have been able to out-lightning Sidious, but that's not the quality that should make him better, seeing as he was probably born with such ridiculous raw power.

 

Except Vitiate doesn't have more raw power. Sidious has that too. My post explains it in great detail.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Rhyltran

[LordDeschain]

A FEW SPOILERS TREAD CAUTIOUSLY

 

 

 

 

Immortal doesn't mean invincible. Immortal is the ability to potentially live forever. Vitiate is immortal but isn't invincible. We also do know he dies as he doesn't exist in the later Canon. Sidious was immortal as well. He didn't need clone bodies. He could transfer his essence into anything. He used clone bodies because he preferred his own body. So he made replica's of his body in his physical prime and used those. In the very end he decided to transfer his essence into Anakin Solo.

 

It took another Jedi to step in the way and force Sidious to become one with the force. Again, Sidious was using the essence transfer ability. He'd transfer his essence into another being to live on through them. This IS immortality.

 

Sidious had the ability to drain the life of billions of beings at once. Much like Vitiate. He simply didn't consume them entirely and he didn't need a ritual to make himself immortal. Sidious was able to mind wipe billions of people at once. We never see Vitiate performing something on that large of a scale.

 

A ritual requires time and effort to put into action and a lot of preparation. Vitiate consuming a planet isn't a combat ability. He wouldn't be able to do this to Sidious. The sith lords he stole the life from were willing participants of Vitiate's ritual. So this isn't comparable.

 

Sidious was able to release wormholes in the middle of combat. These were capable of destroying planets though he never used them in such a manner. He did however use them to destroy an entire starfleet.

 

Sidious was a master of all the saber styles and forms. He was also described moving, as emperor reborn, faster than the eye can see. We have no description of Vitiate being able to do this. We have no knowledge of his saber performance. Going by lack of evidence we can't compare vitiate's saber abilities to Sidious.

 

Vitiate has been said to use artifacts and relics to bolster his power. Sidious does not use relics or artifacts. Vitiate is said to control other bodies while his main body is hidden away. This gives the assumption his main body is vulnerable to destruction. Sidious transported Luke who was on another planet to his side.

 

Sidious managed to take control of the entire republic and turn it into his empire. Sidious does not need to sleep. Sidious has been shown to have the most powerful force lightning in existence. If Sidious dies before he can transfer his essence he can do so as a spirit freely.

 

The emperor, as per the game once again, can not transfer bodies until his current one dies.

 

In effect. Vitiate uses a lot of trinkets and relics to bolster his power and Sidious does not. Despite that fact. Sidious has displayed far more power than Vitiate ever has. Your main argument is this.

 

"Vitiate had to use a ritual to destroy a planet" (Which Sidious can do without a ritual mind you) and he lived 1400 years. Set Harth lived 400 but was a weakling. Yoda lived 900 and wasn't as strong as Sidious. Anddedu also lived for well over a thousand years but was destroyed effortlessly by Darth Wyrrlok.

 

The sith code isn't about being immortal. It's about being free. The idea of a sith is to transcend physical limitations. In effect becoming Gods. One could argue sidious was the closest to achieve it. If it wasn't for Luke and his allies he would have.

 

Vitiate never had to contend with someone on Luke's level. Revan is not as powerful as Luke.

 

You also take destruction too lightly and if it's arguable you can't use it as fact. Arguable means opinion. Opinion isn't fact. If his ability to destroy is far beyond Vitiate's it means if he had to contend with Vitiate or Vitiate him Sidious would destroy him. Then his immortality would be gone.

 

Spot On! I think both emperors are awesome and def two of the strongest force users in all of SW Canon. But the argument above crushes that of the OP's for vitiate!

[Rhyltran]

Spot On! I think both emperors are awesome and def two of the strongest force users in all of SW Canon. But the argument above crushes that of the OP's for vitiate!

 

Aye. Vitiate is extremely powerful. I won't deny that. He's definitely at the top when it comes to Sith but Sidious still has him beat. He's closer than most other Sith though.

[Zantul]

I love a good argument and I must give it to you . You had great points and well, you win.

 

I learned a few things about Sidious.

 

Now are you guys sure vitiate died??

 

Is it written somewhere?

 

Cuz im pretty sure hes still kicking it somewhere....

[RefugeASSASSIN]

Did I just see someone admit on the internet that they were proven wrong about something they orginally believed?

 

With unlimited power such as that, my vote goes to Rhyltran for being the most powerful Force User of all time.

 

On a more serious not, very entertaining arguments from both sides. Kudos!

[Zantul]

Did I just see someone admit on the internet that they were proven wrong about something they orginally believed?

 

With unlimited power such as that, my vote goes to Rhyltran for being the most powerful Force User of all time.

 

On a more serious not, very entertaining arguments from both sides. Kudos!

 

I got my wife to play this game and that takes the Dark Side...

 

She loves it now, muahahahahah!!!