A Response to James Ohlen

[Sendrel]

It took innovation to make a game this bad and still turn a profit on box-sales alone.

 

/rimshot

[HedAche]

My faith in the general gaming community has been diminished after reading this post and the many problems with it.

 

I agree.

[Loekii]

Look, while I'm far from defending the many faults this game launch had, the big one being that IT WASN'T FINISHED, I actually believe that it's innovative.

 

The game handles group questing flawlessly. They really figured out how to meld single player RPG story with an MMO world. The game engine itself might be a poorly optimized terror, but the phasing and grouping technology is superb.

 

They have set the bar for phased storytelling in a permanent MMO world. They pushed the envelope, and that's innovation.

 

 

I agree with that part.

 

 

However, they really fell short on other aspects -- for no apparent reason other than 'management decision'. Had they simply copied many of the other things that have worked and are almost standard in other MMOs, they would have made a happier customer base, imo.

[Tiresias]

"Innovation" does not typically imply a measure of features. It's generally used to refer to a large, overarching design decision that hasn't been tried before... or which has been tried UNSUCCESSFULLY.

 

The implementation of a living, breathing story into an MMO -- one that multiple people can interact with at the same time -- is innovation.

 

The encouragement of personal investment in your character, as opposed to simply seeing it as a pixel doll for you to dress up in purple-named gear, is innovation.

 

Not everyone will agree. These points are matters of opinion.

 

What is NOT a matter of opinion, however, is that features != innovation. There are plenty of feature-packed MMOs out there that are incredibly trite and stale.

 

Bear in mind that something can be innovative and still be a bad experience. The Titanic was a very innovative ship at the time, but the experience of its first cruise was decidedly unpleasant.

[Tokeee]

So many people "OMG QUESTING EXPERIENCE INNOVATIVE". Welcome to your first MMO? I guess. WarHammer online had almost exactly the current system minus the spacebar wear and tear. There is nothing new or innovative about it.

[kiddeth]

 

But you don't have a combat log. You don't have a customizable UI. You don't have macros. You don't have add-on support. Your animation/GCD priority is backwards. Your auction house is a mess. Finding a group hasn't been this difficult since 2007. And you can't even keep your camera from auto-moving to your back.

 

.

 

combat log, not really needed.

custom UI utility. I have never needed one so I can't really see why anyone else would need one.

 

the animation thing, you have a valid point.

 

not really an AH and it works just fine.

 

the camera, seriously is this even an issue?

[Ansultares]

Clearly you do not know the difference between a sandbox MMO and a Theam park MMO. you should have followed the game closer before launch as this is not surprise.

You can have a linear story without every zone feeling like a maze.

[Alwaysrun]

Mr Ohlen might I suggest your time be better spent calling your broker and relinquishing as much of your stock options as possible. As EA plumets to new lows and has even been listed as one of the bottom ten tech stocks to own in 2012 I can't imagine that the dismal forcast warrants excuses and outright delusions of innovation.

 

"we wanted to take the lessons that have been developed in that genre over years and years and years and basically refine them" You can't be serious, you and your company have only suceeded in de-evolving the genre by at least 5 years. Perhaps it's another case of corporate doublespeak dyslexia. Good is bad, bad is good, innovative is retro.

 

Let me enlighten you Mr Ohlen... innovation is the creation of better or more effective products, processes, services, technologies, or ideas. None of which are represented in SWTOR. Like scientist always like to proclaim when great innovations are discovered you'll inevitably hear the phrase "we stand upon the shoulders of giants" And Bioware you certainly had a giant to outright copy yet made absolutely no improvements over.

 

Another excuse I'm rather sick of is people saying "The games only been out for a month give it a chance, do you remember when WoW first came out how terrible it's problems were" Yes I remember WoW in the early days and it's problems were because it was forging new ground and was a victim of it's huge success. Bioware has that games 7 years of hard learned lessons to rely on and turned a blind eye to so many established "must haves" in the MMO genre it's laughable.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Alwaysrun

[Kanharn]

You can have a linear story without every zone feeling like a maze.

 

If you did not cut out the question I was replying to, My quote would be in context.

[Vlakmir]

After reading this list, Im beginning to see the problem with are community and the general forum user.

Its clear most are not even following what the devs say or just want silly, pointless features adding to the game.

 

Im also starting to think these people have never even played an MMO.

 

My faith in the general gaming community has been diminished after reading this post and the many problems with it.

 

Considering my Comment to you was to tell me why TOR is not an MMO and these are the reason you gave me, You have made me very sad and feel are community is filled with people who don't have a clue what they are talking about.

 

Today is a sad day in gaming.

 

 

 

No, shut up!

 

Sorry, I actually agree with you. But shut up!.

I agree with him too.

 

Some points are -VERY- valid. - Non instanced player housing / meaningful World PVP are VERY VALID POINTS. Your counterpoint of "Not every mmo has this" is terrible. Please don't shoot down great ideas that add another level of play and depth to the game just because some games don't have it. More than likely, a new feature will not inhibit your game-play based on what level 50s are usually doing in this game anyway. Tatooine is huge. Guild homes, Player homes, something! It was talked about!

 

Some points are -VERY- Stupid. - Animal mounts. Totally agree. Maybe in the long future but lets focus on more important things, okay?

 

 

So, shut up!

But not in a mean way, I see where you are coming from!

 

But cmon man, an extreme bioware fan or an extreme sandbox fan are both annoying, but meet in the middle and let's take the good ideas that stem from both.

 

the problem isn't the game, the problem is the diehard community.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Vlakmir

[CyberData]

My biggest gripe with the game is that it doesn't have enough customizable/sandbox type content for players to have activities to do on the side.

 

It shouldn't ALL be about getting phat lewts. I spent years doing that in WoW and to be honest, I'm just no longer at that stage in my life where I'm gonna spend countless nights grinding the same instances for the best gear.

 

The game doesn't feel like a living, persistent world. No day/night cycle. No weather. NPC stay rooted in the same exact spot. Space combat has the gameplay and depth of an iphone app.

 

And then there's the unoptimized engine. The poor performance on even powerful machines. The bugs, glitches and whatnot.

 

In reality, a game like this is hugely ambitious and the game is a day or so away from being out for a month. It'll take time. And I think patience on our part. I'm willing to wait and be patient for patches, fixes, updates and more content. I just hope I don't regret that decision in 6 months.

[barwnKesteven]

combat log, not really needed.

custom UI utility. I have never needed one so I can't really see why anyone else would need one.

 

the animation thing, you have a valid point.

 

not really an AH and it works just fine.

 

the camera, seriously is this even an issue?

 

OK look, I will freely admit there are alot of people on (and compounding) the anti-ToR bandwagon. One of my big complaints is the whole texture debacle. Does it make me annoyed? Yes. Does it make ToR a bad game? No.

 

But the GTN is a usability nightmare. If a mission window pops open in the middle of using it...bye bye everything you've just done. If you need to check your character window and didn't have it open...oops, you're screwed. And come on, its just a modern database, why can't I search by keyword?

 

I'll absolutely grant you many people are picking on tiny things that can be fixed but I'd like to see more honest admissions of some of the quality of life things that get under people's skins.

[gregordunbar]

Innovation:

(ĭn'ə-vā'shən)

n.

1.The act of introducing something new.

2.Something newly introduced.

 

Its a very loose term.

 

They did bring full voice to MMORPGs, this is the innovation they brought to the genre. they did not bring anything else and they left out a great deal...but when it comes right down to it, all they did was take what they do for single player RPGs and make it online.

 

Ooh, thats innovative.

 

I see this game as nothing more than a RPG with 8 different stories that I can play online, once im done with or tired of the stories I will stop playing like any other game, this doesnt have an MMORPG life span in my eyes, just not enough depth outside of the story.

[undeniablyjeff]

Fix the lag.

 

kthxbai

[Astron_]

Pretty obvious this Ohlen-character is rather delusional about the abomination he and his team have crammed out.

[Vlakmir]

than a RPG with 8 different stories that I can play online, once im done with or tired of the stories I will stop playing like any other game, this doesnt have an MMORPG life span in my eyes, just not enough depth outside of the story.

 

This.

 

 

Oh and, How freaking hard is it to click target enemy players? Seriously though....people say these things don't affect the game but they are usually what makes a good game or a great game. There's a reason Counterstrike was played more than CS: Source. Graphics didn't make up for a terrible infrastructure.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Vlakmir

[Breeti]

There is not point to people being critical of the man now. People who read that article will see him for exactly for what he is.

[BadgeredMushroom]

Thanks for posting this. That arrogant piece of crap has pretty much spread bantha diarrhea all over any hope of this game ever being more than World of Warcraft wannabe loot treadmill at the level cap.

 

Nothing makes me feel like I'm carving an epic path through the Star Wars universe like grinding the same dailies, raids, and flashpoints for several years ad nauseum for gear. Does he honestly believe this is innovative game design? If only they put half as much effort into making a fun end game as they did making a fun leveling experience...

Edited January 18, 2012 by BadgeredMushroom

[RolyartNala]

Allow me to TL;DR this thread:

 

To be worth the time of most of these posters, all brand new MMORPGs must have all the features at launch that a mature, highly-iterated upon MMORPG has after nearly a decade of live game enhancements. Additionally, if those features are not as polished and as robust as the mature game's feature, then the new game is terrible.

 

The sense of entitlement is thick with these people.

 

This thread is dumb. If you like the game, play. If you don't, leave. If you're a mouthbreathing fatbeard who must win irrelevant arguments on the internet, post.

[Loekii]

TOR is innovative in the way the delivered quest content -- though it is still the same 'kill X rats or fetch Y Stones' system.

 

 

However, they stuff they were not innovative with, appeared to have taken a step back.

 

 

The UI, AH, PvP, NPC atmosphere, zone layout, level progression, etc, all seem to be pre-2008 in design and quality. They did not even both using the 'latest' versions of the mmo elements they borrowed from other games, including Mythic's own designs.

 

Basically, they put 2008 parts on the machine, but Ohlen is patting himself on the back, because the used a 2012 paint scheme on the outer case.

 

Pat yourself on the back for the Quest delivery system - you deserve that.

 

However, hang your head in shame for the poor job on the other elements of the game.

[Tokeee]

Allow me to TL;DR this thread:

 

To be worth the time of most of these posters, all brand new MMORPGs must have all the features at launch that a mature, highly-iterated upon MMORPG has after nearly a decade of live game enhancements. Additionally, if those features are not as polished and as robust as the mature game's feature, then the new game is terrible.

 

The sense of entitlement is thick with these people.

 

This thread is dumb. If you like the game, play. If you don't, leave. If you're a mouthbreathing fatbeard who must win irrelevant arguments on the internet, post.

So I guess both of us are in this category then?

[Tokeee]

TOR is innovative in the way the delivered quest content -- though it is still the same 'kill X rats or fetch Y Stones' system.

 

This is WarHammer Online's questing system with updated graphics. It is not new.

[Vlakmir]

Allow me to TL;DR this thread:

 

To be worth the time of most of these posters, all brand new MMORPGs must have all the features at launch that a mature, highly-iterated upon MMORPG has after nearly a decade of live game enhancements. Additionally, if those features are not as polished and as robust as the mature game's feature, then the new game is terrible.

 

The sense of entitlement is thick with these people.

 

This thread is dumb. If you like the game, play. If you don't, leave. If you're a mouthbreathing fatbeard who must win irrelevant arguments on the internet, post.

 

Well, when the thinking/creative/infrastructure/system was already created, it's not suprising MMOs -MUST- have an auction house, -MUST- have a story, -MUST- have certain standards to succeed in Today's market.

 

You can't release a new product with less features than an older product and expect a good reception. They shouldn't have to spend time coming up with ideas that already exist (LFg system)

[RolyartNala]

So I guess both of us are in this category then?

Speak for yourself. I'm not trying to win any arguments; I'm just pointing out the stupidity.

[barwnKesteven]

Allow me to TL;DR this thread:

 

To be worth the time of most of these posters, all brand new MMORPGs must have all the features at launch that a mature, highly-iterated upon MMORPG has after nearly a decade of live game enhancements. Additionally, if those features are not as polished and as robust as the mature game's feature, then the new game is terrible.

 

The sense of entitlement is thick with these people.

 

This thread is dumb. If you like the game, play. If you don't, leave. If you're a mouthbreathing fatbeard who must win irrelevant arguments on the internet, post.

 

 

Seriously?