Gunslinger is to weak compared to other classes

[DarthSunshine]

The issue with some people complaining about the classes issues are trying to play it as if it's a Trooper or Sorc. It's not so you can't play it like one. I will say that our abilities should either have a quicker cool down or take less energy to balance out the mobility and heavy armor of the other dps class.

[Acidbottle]

every class has its own 'irritant' and i suppose gs have their fair share.

 

am only at 48 at present and have good and bad days with ma toon. survivablity can vary wildy in a pve environment from being minionless and dying in a blink to being almost industructable, whereas pvp requires good positioning and a friendly healer watching your back helps to.

 

have topped a few WZ but have done poor dmg at other times. i guess they're inconsistant.

 

best rep storyline for sure but i do kinda object in being forced to use 10+ spells in a rotation to knock sommit down.

 

really dont know if i can be bothered to play the game in its current state tho. the lag and ability delay are hindering the overall enjoyment at present but that will change over the next few months.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Acidbottle

[Kaptain_Kabul]

I would disagree with both of you. The GS is a solid 1v1 class. Between our 3 damage reductions we get in cover, the reduction bubble, that reduction robot that floats around and hunker down, we have 6-10 seconds of near immunity. That's enough time to do at least 10K damage. I win 1v1s all the time.

 

As for te other point that were not as good in PVP, I disagree as well. We are not as versatile as the Troop but in 2/3 war zones you don't have a ton of moving around anyway. Sit at door wai for bomb/sit at turret defend it. Us staying there frees up the more mobile dps to be mobile and go where needed. We're a defense/passive aggressive class. Troops are the opposite.

 

Didn't i say that we are pretty good 1vs1?

Please read carefully before you tend to disagree in points we don't disagree.

 

But to your second point. because you own a bunch of scrubs who don't know what you can do when they let you is in no way a prove we are a good class. let the sorc cast their spells and you get the same results.

If people let me sniper them from good points in Alderaan then they just have no clue. That doesn't mean i have a good class. Good teams look out for that points and you have some meeles sitting in your face faster than you can hit "hunker down".

 

And the rest you said doesn't make any sense? passive aggressive? What drugs you are on?

A trooper has heal and heavy armor, which makes him much more useful in grpplay.

Again we are not useless, but other classes are more useful and can fulfil the same function as good as us.

[FuriCuri]

The issue with some people complaining about the classes issues are trying to play it as if it's a Trooper or Sorc. It's not so you can't play it like one. I will say that our abilities should either have a quicker cool down or take less energy to balance out the mobility and heavy armor of the other dps class.

 

The issue is that we put a lot of efforts to play this class on at least medium effectivenes (compared to others) - we learn new playstyle, struggle with cover, use a way more buttons in our rotations and endure the fact that we can not spec for tank or heal. All that to be as effective as other classes, which are far more easier to play and have flexibility to healing for example.

 

Now, I don't mind to play hard class but I want that game rewards me for that with untouchable (for other classes) effectiveness and not just with some isoteric "look and feel" and "i'm unique" b/s.

[Wrakk]

Why would anyone play a gunslinger when you can play a sor/sage + get same or even better damage output + have healing abilities and MUCH better mobility,,,

[Lerdoc]

I would disagree with both of you. The GS is a solid 1v1 class. Between our 3 damage reductions we get in cover, the reduction bubble, that reduction robot that floats around and hunker down, we have 6-10 seconds of near immunity. That's enough time to do at least 10K damage. I win 1v1s all the time.

 

As for te other point that were not as good in PVP, I disagree as well. We are not as versatile as the Troop but in 2/3 war zones you don't have a ton of moving around anyway. Sit at door wai for bomb/sit at turret defend it. Us staying there frees up the more mobile dps to be mobile and go where needed. We're a defense/passive aggressive class. Troops are the opposite.

 

Sorry, but that just means you are facing terrible players. Anything with "tank" in name wrecks you(unless you are dirty fighting spec). Ops wreck you. Sorcs wreck you. I'm not even going to start on tracer missile turrets. Maras wreck you if you don't kb them on lower ground and burst them down. Assasins, that depends on build, but if they get the jump, you're as good as dead regardless of their spec, still they are easiest to fight against because of no leap bs and constant snares.

 

I know I am pretty strong in group, where I am supported by a melee covering for me and healer keeping me alife, but I try to avoid 1v1 against anything that looks like equally geared player, unless its sniper. Oh the irony, the only class that I am not afraid of 1v1 is my bloody mirror. Also, because I do well in group does not mean that other classes won't do better. I can do some burst every 9 to 15 seconds, but thats it, while supported marauder/sentinel will mow opposition like a grass.

 

And please, COME ON! You've just said the class is only good for sitting and derping around on objectives so there will be someone to call for help. Don't you think THATS the BEST REASON EVER that we need help?

Edited January 24, 2012 by Lerdoc

[Lerdoc]

Why would anyone play a gunslinger when you can play a sor/sage + get same or even better damage output + have healing abilities and MUCH better mobility,,,

 

Its the hat+dual revolver model blasters. Its +100 to awesomeness, which is twice as much as purple lightning.

[Wrakk]

Its the hat+dual revolver model blasters. Its +100 to awesomeness, which is twice as much as purple lightning.

 

Yea, though lets get serious

[Daeth]

Honestly I had a GS and Sniper. Both were AWESOME in PVP. It's about using the environment correctly.

 

90% of Snipers/GSers run to the middle of the fight and drop cover. It's a derpy tactic. Really derpy.

 

Exactly. Put your back to a wall, or better yet, a ledge. If someone comes up behind.... blow them off with the AE knockback. Class is fine... its just BH Merc / Gunnery Troop needs to be toned down because they out-snipe the Sniper while having much better mobility and defense.

[Yulja]

They are not underpowered, more like better than other classes.

I'm Imperial Agent Operative Healer and Gunslingers/Snipers just outdamage my Heal with too much range and burst DMG.

They are even more overpowered in my opinion because their defensive (Cover) is too high and if DMG and def is too high, something is wrong.

 

For me, they are too strong (like a bit merc/commando) and need a slight nerf like Operative DD.

[FuriCuri]

They are not underpowered, more like better than other classes.

I'm Imperial Agent Operative Healer and Gunslingers/Snipers just outdamage my Heal with too much range and burst DMG.

They are even more overpowered in my opinion because their defensive (Cover) is too high and if DMG and def is too high, something is wrong.

 

For me, they are too strong (like a bit merc/commando) and need a slight nerf like Operative DD.

 

Oh please. Just go behind a pillar/corner and heal up to 100% in 3 GCD. I see healers on my server do that just fine.

[Lerdoc]

Yea, though lets get serious

 

I am and thats sad. Oh well, story line in my opinion is best from all.

 

But that does not help us much in PvP anyway.

 

Well, at least I've got my hat and revolvers

[Kaptain_Kabul]

They are not underpowered, more like better than other classes.

I'm Imperial Agent Operative Healer and Gunslingers/Snipers just outdamage my Heal with too much range and burst DMG.

They are even more overpowered in my opinion because their defensive (Cover) is too high and if DMG and def is too high, something is wrong.

 

For me, they are too strong (like a bit merc/commando) and need a slight nerf like Operative DD.

 

I can smell a sorc poster from miiiles afaar . And your post smells like ozone and electroluted corpses ... and you smell like summer.

[Keldaur]

People who isn't 50 shouldn't post about balance. Lvl 20 gunslinger-sniper is op. Lvl 40 gunslinger-sniper is OP. LvL 50, you play dirty fighting because if not, you will get LoS'ed, trained and focused by players with alive braincells.

 

Why ? Cover only works against rangeds attacks. Do you know which class is the only one who really uses ranged attacks ? Snipers. Sorcs/Mercs and Sages/Comandos use tech/force attacks which ignore avoidance, so your cover, is just there to give you inmunity to interrupt, which is nice, mind you, but if you had played a dirty fighting/lethality specced you know how weak they are when you just LoS and use instants.

 

About their burst on marks/sharpshooter, well it's quite laughable compared to tracer tracer + heartseeker, or a Lighting barrage proc + chain lighting proc. Our best burst is cull/wounding shot by far.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Keldaur

[Wrakk]

Exactly. Put your back to a wall, or better yet, a ledge. If someone comes up behind.... blow them off with the AE knockback.

 

Backs to the wall-----> someone comes up behind:confused:---->blow them off with AE knockback---> Back into the wall?

Edited January 24, 2012 by Wrakk

[BambulaGTS]

Hi there.

 

I play 50 lvl sniper on PvP EU server the Ravager. This server is heavy populated with lots of 50 above 60 valor rank and more in full/near full champ PvP gear.

 

My gear is mix of battlemaster/champ also using some custom made crit/surge enchantments instead of some default accuracy/power PvP items enchantments. I use biochem also.

 

I played a lot of marksman spec, currently I play lethality spec.

 

Nowadays I'm not in the mood of calling nerfs especially after news about operatives coming changes.

 

What I'm really for to raise some highlights about current sniper (and rep counterpart) problems.

 

First, it has 3 damage talent trees being pure damage dealing class. Other rich possibilities avaible to hybrid aclasses are restricted to sniper. This influences over many things from variety of PvP tactic choices to possible quantity of warzone medals.

 

Even fully DPS specced hybrid classes enjoy having basic heals/protects/dispels etc from common architype.

 

Since sniper has no choice but deal damage it is very important that sniper damage (and his pure aclass brother marader) should be higher than fully DPS specced hybrid classes. Currently fully DPS specced hybrid classes in PvP have equal burst/sustained damage or even more than sniper.

 

In case of marksman specced sniper mentioned above situation is an outcome of:

 

- developers desicion to make nearly all marksman sniper attacks advanced version of basic rifle shot attack. You can check on torhead, they are just weapon attack like basic autoattack. That makes damage from such attacks not only to be mitigated by armor, but also shielded by personal shield generators, be dodged by players defence.

- developers desicion to make nealry all marksman sniper (actually it applies to all sniper specs) attacks (except series of shots) to show clear sign above target head making them highly avoidable by LoSing/popping immunities before they deal intended damage.

- developers decision to add a lot of hard damage mitigation abilities and/or dodge abilities or absorbing shields plus taunt/guard abilities on top of them on demand. Some of that abilities are very very consistend and painful for pure DPS class like 99 % damage reduction on marader, for example. Surprisingly enough sniper (I suspect marader too) does not get any exclusive for pure DPS aclass hard damage increase abilities and/or ignore armor (except shot - 20 % armor on target) or piercing shielding/dodging abilities on demand. By "on demand" I mean activable abilities that require skill and timing, not passive or RNG proc abilities.

- developers decision to make marksman sniper super weak against LoS play of opponents. Since sniper roots/incapacitate break on damage, stun is melee range it is impossible to have one in line of sight if he does not want to. Snipe also have no runner/catcher abilities (speed increase, untalented slow).

 

Complex of circumstances makes marksman sniper damage on geared lvl 50 insignificant for aclass that can only damage, becasue if pure DPS class does bad damage it is completely useless.

 

Lethality sniper, on the other hand potentially has more damage ouput because dots bypass shielding and defence and internal damage from cull ability bypass armor. Still 3 advanced classes have dispells, some advanced classes (operative) can remove dots with other abilities and some aclasses can not only remove them but stay immune for some time (assasin). On mentioned server seems lot of people know how dispel.

 

Hard damage mitigation on the other hand plays the same for lethality sniper as for marksman sniper.

 

Second, the survivability of sniper is under the ground. Actually it is somewhere on the other side of a black hole. Defensive CD are: evasion 3 (4 with operative pvp set) sec of total melee/ranged white attack dodge and total 1200 dmg absorb shield (1600 with engeneering tree high tier talent) for 12 sec or until depleted by damage.

 

One might say: "The cover". At the moment I find cover useful in one situation - I sit on the front of a zerg camping Ilum base entrance and the cover prevents me being pulled by jedi shadow from stealth to the opposite group. Cover mechanics has so much intended weakneses built-in (like susceptibility to all slight forms of CCs even roots, enforcing character immobilization thus taking away usability of LoS objects, making desirable target for stealthers) so it actually burdens sniper character in PvP (except Ilum "zerg" situation of course).

 

Operatives (same Imperail agent architype) have the same toolset of defensive CD's except no entrench, but stealth and enchanced evasion makes them much more survivable.

 

So no hard damage mitigation, no long lasting defensive abilities. Other classes have much more, still having damage and hybrid benefits.

 

Third, sniper itemization. Did I mention PvP sniper set (field tech) bonuses suck? Yes they do a lot compared to other aclasses set bonuses. Did I mention a tonns of accuracy on PvP gear and somewhat a soft cap for accuracy % from rating approx at + 11 %, so that u can remove a 150 accuracy rating without actually loosing %?

 

Sniper concept needs serious rework in ways what cover does and how ot works, sniper survivability or sniper hard damage armor/dodge/shield piercing increase on demand.

 

Lethality snipers can enjoy some % to resist dispel and removal for dots too.

[xBuzz]

Exactly. Put your back to a wall, or better yet, a ledge. If someone comes up behind.... blow them off with the AE knockback. Class is fine... its just BH Merc / Gunnery Troop needs to be toned down because they out-snipe the Sniper while having much better mobility and defense.

 

That's the problem, you need to be left alone to be anyway effective in a team. If you're up on that ledge and a stealth class stunlocks you. you're going to have a hard time knocking them off. Entering covering and knocking someone back in combat is the most unfluid thing in this time and takes along time to do. I have both level 50 vanguard and level 50 gunslinger. Any competant player playing against a knockback class will position themselves so they don't get knocked off a ledge. The gunslinger knockback is one of the weakest knockbacks in that regard in the game, because you need to be stationary to do it, the enemy player can easily position themselves correctly.

 

My biggest concern with the gunslinger class, is it's mobility, in a competitve game, staying in one spot and dpsing isn't an option, you need to be able to run and gun, and the time needed/bugginess of cover means that it takes too long for snipers/gunslingers to get off abilities or apply burst in a highly mobile/dynamic scenario.

 

Line of sight is the snipers/gunslingers greatest problem, because you're static and most abilities require cast time, your enemy can easily line of sight you and pwn you to hell, while you have to be out in the open.

[Wrakk]

That's the problem, you need to be left alone to be anyway effective in a team. If you're up on that ledge and a stealth class stunlocks you. you're going to have a hard time knocking them off. Entering covering and knocking someone back in combat is the most unfluid thing in this time and takes along time to do. I have both level 50 vanguard and level 50 gunslinger. Any competant player playing against a knockback class will position themselves so they don't get knocked off a ledge. The gunslinger knockback is one of the weakest knockbacks in that regard in the game, because you need to be stationary to do it, the enemy player can easily position themselves correctly.

 

My biggest concern with the gunslinger class, is it's mobility, in a competitve game, staying in one spot and dpsing isn't an option, you need to be able to run and gun, and the time needed/bugginess of cover means that it takes too long for snipers/gunslingers to get off abilities or apply burst in a highly mobile/dynamic scenario.

 

Line of sight is the snipers/gunslingers greatest problem, because you're static and most abilities require cast time, your enemy can easily line of sight you and pwn you to hell, while you have to be out in the open.

 

You said it all. It's so true - it HURTS. Hopefully some of devs will notice our pain in near future.

[Kaptain_Kabul]

Hi there.

 

I play 50 lvl sniper on PvP EU server the Ravager. This server is heavy populated with lots of 50 above 60 valor rank and more in full/near full champ PvP gear.

 

My gear is mix of battlemaster/champ also using some custom made crit/surge enchantments instead of some default accuracy/power PvP items enchantments. I use biochem also.

 

I played a lot of marksman spec, currently I play lethality spec.

 

Nowadays I'm not in the mood of calling nerfs especially after news about operatives coming changes.

 

What I'm really for to raise some highlights about current sniper (and rep counterpart) problems.

 

First, it has 3 damage talent trees being pure damage dealing class. Other rich possibilities avaible to hybrid aclasses are restricted to sniper. This influences over many things from variety of PvP tactic choices to possible quantity of warzone medals.

 

Even fully DPS specced hybrid classes enjoy having basic heals/protects/dispels etc from common architype.

 

Since sniper has no choice but deal damage it is very important that sniper damage (and his pure aclass brother marader) should be higher than fully DPS specced hybrid classes. Currently fully DPS specced hybrid classes in PvP have equal burst/sustained damage or even more than sniper.

 

In case of marksman specced sniper mentioned above situation is an outcome of:

 

- developers desicion to make nearly all marksman sniper attacks advanced version of basic rifle shot attack. You can check on torhead, they are just weapon attack like basic autoattack. That makes damage from such attacks not only to be mitigated by armor, but also shielded by personal shield generators, be dodged by players defence.

- developers desicion to make nealry all marksman sniper (actually it applies to all sniper specs) attacks (except series of shots) to show clear sign above target head making them highly avoidable by LoSing/popping immunities before they deal intended damage.

- developers decision to add a lot of hard damage mitigation abilities and/or dodge abilities or absorbing shields plus taunt/guard abilities on top of them on demand. Some of that abilities are very very consistend and painful for pure DPS class like 99 % damage reduction on marader, for example. Surprisingly enough sniper (I suspect marader too) does not get any exclusive for pure DPS aclass hard damage increase abilities and/or ignore armor (except shot - 20 % armor on target) or piercing shielding/dodging abilities on demand. By "on demand" I mean activable abilities that require skill and timing, not passive or RNG proc abilities.

- developers decision to make marksman sniper super weak against LoS play of opponents. Since sniper roots/incapacitate break on damage, stun is melee range it is impossible to have one in line of sight if he does not want to. Snipe also have no runner/catcher abilities (speed increase, untalented slow).

 

Complex of circumstances makes marksman sniper damage on geared lvl 50 insignificant for aclass that can only damage, becasue if pure DPS class does bad damage it is completely useless.

 

Lethality sniper, on the other hand potentially has more damage ouput because dots bypass shielding and defence and internal damage from cull ability bypass armor. Still 3 advanced classes have dispells, some advanced classes (operative) can remove dots with other abilities and some aclasses can not only remove them but stay immune for some time (assasin). On mentioned server seems lot of people know how dispel.

 

Hard damage mitigation on the other hand plays the same for lethality sniper as for marksman sniper.

 

Second, the survivability of sniper is under the ground. Actually it is somewhere on the other side of a black hole. Defensive CD are: evasion 3 (4 with operative pvp set) sec of total melee/ranged white attack dodge and total 1200 dmg absorb shield (1600 with engeneering tree high tier talent) for 12 sec or until depleted by damage.

 

One might say: "The cover". At the moment I find cover useful in one situation - I sit on the front of a zerg camping Ilum base entrance and the cover prevents me being pulled by jedi shadow from stealth to the opposite group. Cover mechanics has so much intended weakneses built-in (like susceptibility to all slight forms of CCs even roots, enforcing character immobilization thus taking away usability of LoS objects, making desirable target for stealthers) so it actually burdens sniper character in PvP (except Ilum "zerg" situation of course).

 

Operatives (same Imperail agent architype) have the same toolset of defensive CD's except no entrench, but stealth and enchanced evasion makes them much more survivable.

 

So no hard damage mitigation, no long lasting defensive abilities. Other classes have much more, still having damage and hybrid benefits.

 

Third, sniper itemization. Did I mention PvP sniper set (field tech) bonuses suck? Yes they do a lot compared to other aclasses set bonuses. Did I mention a tonns of accuracy on PvP gear and somewhat a soft cap for accuracy % from rating approx at + 11 %, so that u can remove a 150 accuracy rating without actually loosing %?

 

Sniper concept needs serious rework in ways what cover does and how ot works, sniper survivability or sniper hard damage armor/dodge/shield piercing increase on demand.

 

Lethality snipers can enjoy some % to resist dispel and removal for dots too.

 

/Signed 100%

[Jaxtaro]

^^^^ This

 

I don't have much trouble stopping a jumper. Pulse Detonate, leg shot, hit him hard, aimed shot with knock back, leg shot again. More damage and finish with a dirty kick. Congrats you destroyed a melee class.

 

Congrats, you did it wrong, blowing an ambush/legshot, however this only works in theory, and only against weak melee only classes who can't get the jump on you (I'll give you a guess how many of these are in the game).

 

Most often it's.. "Get punched in the face, and lit on fire and die".

 

There are several serious problems with this subset of classes, and none of it has anything to do with the damage charts, or paying against a group of unaware morons (I enjoy playing against groups of unaware morons too). Every single fix for them would have a marginal effect at best on damage.

 

This is my list of fixes to the class and the basic premise behind them:

 

1. Cover shield should only glow red for 1 second upon deployment. Snipers don't tend to deploy anywhere with neon plexiglass shields to give away their location.

 

2. Cover should provide stealth until the first fire, refreshed after 5 seconds of inactivity.

 

3. Snipe range should be more than 35 yards, that's a joke, it should be more like 45. The idea that a sniper at maximum rifle range is within a 5 yard dash and a jump from their enemies is absurd.

 

4. The CC system needs to be revamped. The Sniper's goal is to "get away" when spotted. Having every CC skill require facing the enemy is completely counter to the sniper playstyle.

 

A. Cover Pulse should act more like a proximity mine. The sniper sets it up when he sets his cover, and it goes off when someone enters the proximity.

 

B. There needs to be 2 "landmine" type of CC skills, aimed at escaping combat that the sniper lays on the ground while moving. One is a knockback/knockdown, the other a snare.

 

C. The sniper needs a "sprint" which removes and makes him immune to snare effects for 3 seconds.

 

If the idea is for the sniper to find a spot, take cover, and wait, and move when spotted, then the sniper needs to be able to... hide in cover, shoot at sniping range, not grenade range, and have tools to run away and live.

 

This isn't too much to ask.

[DarthSunshine]

Sorry, but that just means you are facing terrible players. Anything with "tank" in name wrecks you(unless you are dirty fighting spec). Ops wreck you. Sorcs wreck you. I'm not even going to start on tracer missile turrets. Maras wreck you if you don't kb them on lower ground and burst them down. Assasins, that depends on build, but if they get the jump, you're as good as dead regardless of their spec, still they are easiest to fight against because of no leap bs and constant snares.

 

I know I am pretty strong in group, where I am supported by a melee covering for me and healer keeping me alife, but I try to avoid 1v1 against anything that looks like equally geared player, unless its sniper. Oh the irony, the only class that I am not afraid of 1v1 is my bloody mirror. Also, because I do well in group does not mean that other classes won't do better. I can do some burst every 9 to 15 seconds, but thats it, while supported marauder/sentinel will mow opposition like a grass.

 

And please, COME ON! You've just said the class is only good for sitting and derping around on objectives so there will be someone to call for help. Don't you think THATS the BEST REASON EVER that we need help?

 

Im Sorry you don't know what you're doing. I eat sorcs for breakfast. Mauraders and Ops too. BH is 50/50. Juggs are fools with light sabers.

[DarthSunshine]

Congrats, you did it wrong, blowing an ambush/legshot, however this only works in theory, and only against weak melee only classes who can't get the jump on you (I'll give you a guess how many of these are in the game).

 

Most often it's.. "Get punched in the face, and lit on fire and die".

 

Yeah I don't let that happen very much. But if getting set ablaze and dying helps your play style knock yourself out. I play against 50s and slay. They know what they're doing I just do it faster and harder. And if you read my post, that melee is dead even though he ambushed me.

[Kaptain_Kabul]

Im Sorry you don't know what you're doing. I eat sorcs for breakfast. Mauraders and Ops too. BH is 50/50. Juggs are fools with light sabers.

 

Yes! Maybe we are not bad @ 1vs1.

 

But last time i looked, this game was not a 1vs1 fighting game in the style of Streetfighter. So who cares who is owning who in 1vs1! Thats not the point why we need more love.

 

We need more love because other classes can do the same as us and more, theres no need for gunslingers. We are obselete. Who needs us when he can bring one sorc/sage more.

 

I predict if you can join with compelte premades in WZ. You won't see any gunslinger/sniper on the long run.

 

Because who needs gunslinger/snipers if you can add more Sorcs,BHs,OPs(okay forget Ops after nerf)?

[DarthSunshine]

Most of this thread is people who are upset their Gunslinger isn't a Trooper.

[BambulaGTS]

Yeah I don't let that happen very much. But if getting set ablaze and dying helps your play style knock yourself out. I play against 50s and slay. They know what they're doing I just do it faster and harder. And if you read my post, that melee is dead even though he ambushed me.

 

I do not know on what server u are playing, but mara/jugg is definetely not the class that sniper eats for breakfast.

 

Not even close.

 

Sorcs ... if you have a jump will just force speed away LoS and heal. So no too.

 

Sorry, but u are a big smacktalking person.