Gunslinger is to weak compared to other classes

[SigDal]

While cover is not acting like I want it to at times, gunslingers are very good in pvp. You can't charge into an enemy group and expect to do something useful. Place yourself tactically, far away from the fight, and use your cooldowns properly. You also have alot of tools for a 1v1 battle, and as dirty fighting I can kill any other class without too much trouble. As a sharpshooter I get owned by mercenaries since my interupt won't interupt when I tell it to.

 

If you think our damage is low do this:

Flourish shot - illegal mods + trinket - speed shot - rapid fire - speed shot - speed shot - aimed shot -trick shot. Any non tank class is dead by then.

[Kaptain_Kabul]

Cover blows with all it's bugs, but saying that we do low damage is a flat out lie... We do awesome damage and particularly awesome burst, I dare say that we have the best burst in the game after operatives and after 1.1.1 we may end up actually having the best burst damage period.

 

59 Valor BTW

 

 

To the above poster: Entrench does not trigger GCD, Relics and Adrenals do not trigger GCD, Target Acquired does not trigger GCD...

 

When you pop Explosive Probe first, then relics and adrenals, this way you won't lose any DPS time.

 

Really! I'am 53 Valor with complete T2 and i didnt knew that. The more you learn. I'am using that move i described sometimes to melt funny shadows or melees standing next to me with that. For tanks i add armor reducing shot.

 

Just the better, moar DPS without GCD! Sorry my PC is not the fastest, so i thought i had GCD on those relics and Stims, but must have been lag then. But thats really cool to know.

 

I will try in my rotation. Even if i'am not a big fan of explosive probe. I like that armorreducing shot more as opener.

[FalmeseReb]

Gunslinger and Sniper are one of the underplayed classes, so you probably won't see a lot of support with this. But, I do agree. (Although my character is a Sniper, not a Gunslinger)

 

The Cover mechanic is a very bad way to do PvP for the Sniper, yet our best spec is reliant upon it. Well, hopefully when they do some Scoun/Op nerfs, they will buff Sniper a bit too.

 

yeah, because the best ranged dps class needs a buff at the (soon to be) worst melee class' expense.

[SwordoftheStars]

i am valor 52 and i am doing well with my slinger but i think i have a much harder time achieving my goals then this 1 button wonder (i think we all know what i mean)

 

I have to put alot more effort in my playstyle to get kills and the cover system definately needs looked into

[Mazikeen]

I have to put alot more effort in my playstyle to get kills and the cover system definately needs looked into

 

Or, maybe, the system is working as intended for those that tire of the WoW-noobing of classes and want something that requires some effort

 

Just, you know, a thought

[SWImara]

To key to any class is learning their strengths, and bolstering their weaknesses. LOS is a tactic which is available to all classes, and it affects range more than melee, but that's why gunslingers have melee abilities and cc abilities.

I appreciate the above statement, LOSing people in SWTOR is a pretty clutch tactic and one regularly overlooked. Regardless of your role keeping aware of LOS is pretty key to PvP victory. Basically complaining that people are LOSing you just means you're getting outplayed on a certain level, it happens, particularly with more stationary classes like sniper and mercenary.

 

Just think, a few days ago people were raving about how Melee was useless in SWTOR and Ranged was too good. The grass is always greener on the side that is wtfpwning you.

[Kimasoko]

Saying stuff like this is retarded. This isn't Darkfall or Age of Conan, you can't completely dodge peoples abilities by playing smart. They automatically lock onto you and follow you no matter what, there is no way a level 50 Sniper atm is going to stand toe-to-toe with a level 50 Mercenary and out DPS their Tracer Missile, Rail Shot, Unload combo due to heavy armor mitigation, heals and ranged vs melee stun.

 

Right now your success as a Sniper completely relies on the brain power of the opposing team. If you leave any class unopposed they are going to destroy you, this isn't just Snipers. If one player, preferably melee, decides that he's going to ruin your day in a WZ you'll do nothing as a Sniper. Literally nothing.

 

Luckily its not a 1v1 game. Anf btw we **** spammers, interupt much?

 

Also tactics and smart play do make a difference, especially on a skillless games. In DF u didnt need tactics cause if you wrre skilled enough, your skills would carry you. So ya dont know what your talking about here but obviously you lack tact. IE. Let fights start and stay on the outskirts, there is pvp agro. If there is a player you cant 1v1, dont 1v1 them. Know when to atk, who to atk and when to retreat.

 

Theres alot more but im touching up my slinger video tutorial and will post it soon.

For now check out my sig and get a sense of tact.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Kimasoko

[durvas]

There are a lot of people saying that gunslingers are fine because they do damage, which they do. It's just that sorc/troopers/sages/sorcs can do the same damage with more defense and utility, which is the whole point of the OP's post. Damage isn't the only thing that qualifies a good pvp class, and the gunslinger does not put out noticeably more damage than an equally geared/skill sorc or bh. If they're not getting attacked, any class can do great damage, but if attacked and in a mobile, organized setting, gunslingers certainly go down faster than the other classes with less to show for it.

[SwordoftheStars]

There are a lot of people saying that gunslingers are fine because they do damage, which they do. It's just that sorc/troopers/sages/sorcs can do the same damage with more defense and utility, which is the whole point of the OP's post. Damage isn't the only thing that qualifies a good pvp class, and the gunslinger does not put out noticeably more damage than an equally geared/skill sorc or bh. If they're not getting attacked, any class can do great damage, but if attacked and in a mobile, organized setting, gunslingers certainly go down faster than the other classes with less to show for it.

 

exactly what im saying ...

[Mazikeen]

If there is a player you cant 1v1, dont 1v1 them. Know when to atk, who to atk and when to retreat

 

"You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,

Know when to walk away, know when to run"

- Kenny Rogers

[Mazikeen]

There are a lot of people saying that gunslingers are fine because they do damage, which they do. It's just that sorc/troopers/sages/sorcs can do the same damage with more defense and utility, which is the whole point of the OP's post

 

This I can agree with

The OP, however, started off talking about this then called for a 'revisiting' of the cover system and started with complaints in that respect

 

Can we use more utility? Yes. So can Marauders

Can we use a damage boost to make up for lack of utility? Yes. So can Marauders

Do we need the cover system revamped? No

And the cover system is the biggest complaint people have

 

Some people like a little bit of difficulty. Some like having to think about where to set up, when to run, who to target (hint: not tanks), etc

[TCFinwe]

Gunslinger/Sniper is the most underrated class in this game.

Uninterruptible, 20 sec cc immunity, great defensive skills,marauders/juggs cannot leap on you in cover, not to mention really good dmg output. It is a great class overall with skill req. If you dont want to master that class, reroll sorc/sage and gg.

[Bulivyf]

Luckily its not a 1v1 game. Anf btw we **** spammers, interupt much?

 

Also tactics and smart play do make a difference, especially on a skillless games. In DF u didnt need tactics cause if you wrre skilled enough, your skills would carry you. So ya dont know what your talking about here but obviously you lack tact. IE. Let fights start and stay on the outskirts, there is pvp agro. If there is a player you cant 1v1, dont 1v1 them. Know when to atk, who to atk and when to retreat.

 

Theres alot more but im touching up my slinger video tutorial and will post it soon.

For now check out my sig and get a sense of tact.

 

This is exactly the argument. Why should a single class be forced to put so much thought and effort into being on par with the other classes in the game? Then when the people playing a class that isn't Sniper actually puts equal effort into it you can see the noticeable difference. I was a level 50 Sniper before early game access ended, I PvP'd non-stop until early/mid January on my Sniper.

 

I'm more experienced then you at this class, and I'm not saying that in an egotistical manner - I'm just stating facts.

 

I can look at the Sniper talent tree, and set bonuses then look at other classes talent trees and set bonuses and know for a fact that this class was thrown together as fast as possible so it could meet release.

 

Here's a comparison.

 

Tracer Missile applies a 4% armor debuff which stacks 5 times up to 20% armor debuff. There's talents to increase how quickly the stacks accumulate and this is basically their Snipe. It's their spammable damage ability. While we also have a 20% armor debuff which is a single cast that lasts for 45 seconds we need to keep that debuff up and waste energy, and a GCD.

 

Tracer Missile is also hitting for incredible amounts, 8k crit isn't an amazing number for them. It's a pretty average crit in a raid environment for that particular ability. Snipe crits for 4k-5k and costs a significant amount of energy to use. The problem is that they also have a talent which makes crits with Tracer Missiles remove 8 heat which leads BH Mercs to stack crit/surge which makes their sustainability and actual damage per missile even more incredible.

 

This isn't the end of the discrepancy between these classes, one which is a pure DPS class which is obviously failing to compete with a hybrid class like Mercenary which can heal and do incredible, sustainable damage in a raid environment.

 

The set bonuses as they stand are an absolute joke.

 

Sniper 2 piece set bonus is "Restores 10 Energy on using Target Acquired", Target Acquired is an ability that is on a 2 minute cool down and increases your alacrity by 20%. This not only is semi-useless ability to a Sniper trying to sustain their damage, but further hinders them by making them use up their energy even quicker.

 

The Mercenary 2 piece gives them +15% chance to crit with Tracer Missile.

 

Mercenaries set bonus, talents and abilities synergize so well with each other that I can't imagine that it wasn't intended. However this leave me scratching my head when I look at the Sniper set bonuses, talents and abilities all which seem to be really random and bear no semblance of synergy or ways to exploit the synergy between them like this.

 

Further confusing is the fact that Mercs are a hybrid class and Snipers are pure DPS yet are obviously not competing.

[Bulivyf]

Gunslinger/Sniper is the most underrated class in this game.

Uninterruptible, 20 sec cc immunity, great defensive skills,marauders/juggs cannot leap on you in cover, not to mention really good dmg output. It is a great class overall with skill req. If you dont want to master that class, reroll sorc/sage and gg.

 

Wrong. You can be Force Choked out of Entrench. Please stop posting until you know facts.

[Kimasoko]

 

Some people like a little bit of difficulty. Some like having to think about where to set up, when to run, who to target (hint: not tanks), etc

 

Yup, i rerolled my 38 scoundrel into a slinger because i was bored of facerolling everyone

[TCFinwe]

Wrong. You can be Force Choked out of Entrench. Please stop posting until you know facts.

 

 

You are talking about only 2 classes in game that have that skill you fkn tarp.

[Ipsemeter]

There are a lot of people saying that gunslingers are fine because they do damage, which they do. It's just that sorc/troopers/sages/sorcs can do the same damage with more defense and utility, which is the whole point of the OP's post. Damage isn't the only thing that qualifies a good pvp class, and the gunslinger does not put out noticeably more damage than an equally geared/skill sorc or bh. If they're not getting attacked, any class can do great damage, but if attacked and in a mobile, organized setting, gunslingers certainly go down faster than the other classes with less to show for it.

 

I kinda see where you are going with that...I'd like some more oh crap buttons, I'd like for the shields and escape and Dodge to work in a pvp setting...I'd love a self heal...but our utility in pvp settings comes in the form of reducing someone's accuracy by 45%, or by putting up a great big shield over ppl, or by keeping people off a point for capture. Cycling through all the targets and dotting with a vital shot, lobbing grenades, keeping them blinded, throwing down a flyby, kiting them away from the capture point...we have utility beyond pure dps. And to be honest, we go down less quickly when we are mobile. Quick Shot is a helluva energy drain but with dirty kick, blaster whip, dirty trickster, dirty escape/leg/arrow to the knee shot you'll get the job done. In fact, illegal mods and popping you're crit trink with Quick Shots is very comparable to cover/cs/as/ss rotations, for damage, but again heavily energy dependent.

[AlbertXP]

Because no one in this game has a charge and Snipers are the only ranged class.

 

 

Noob detection alert. Snipers cannot be charged while in cover.

[durvas]

Gunslinger/Sniper is the most underrated class in this game.

Uninterruptible, 20 sec cc immunity, great defensive skills,marauders/juggs cannot leap on you in cover, not to mention really good dmg output. It is a great class overall with skill req. If you dont want to master that class, reroll sorc/sage and gg.

 

20 sec of staying in the same place gets you killed. Hell, 8 seconds in one place usually gets you killed if the other teams is not stupid. It'd be a great skill if it was a about 6-8 secs on a proportionately shorter CD. I'd love to hear what the "great defensive skills" are, btw. Our dodge shield doesn't work vs. tech and force attacks, or against what it's supposed to when we are stunned. Our absorb prob takes a pitiful amount. Cover pulse works only when it feels like it. Unable to use defensive CDs or powerful shots when immobilized because we can't go into cover when immobilized.

[Kimasoko]

i dont know how to counter our easiest rival,aka dont know how t interupt. I also talk about pve set bonuses in a pvp discussion

 

The fact that you harp on tracer, our easiest thing to counter, and use pve set bonuses in this discussion. Proves to me that you definatly do not know much of anything about our class. If youve actually been pvping a sniper at 50 since before ega ended and are this bad still, you should reroll. Are you trolling?

Edited January 23, 2012 by Kimasoko

[Mazikeen]

20 sec of staying in the same place gets you killed. Hell, 8 seconds in one place usually gets you killed if the other teams is not stupid

 

Orly?

Huttball: I agree

Voidstar: Depends where you sit

Civil War: I've sat on the second level of the middle the length of entire games

 

And... are people unable to get away for some reason? I have no more issues getting away from people on my Sniper than I do on my Operative or Juggernaut

[DestyOwn]

I totally agree, snipers needs a defensive buff, and maybe IF BW would fix all the cover bugs, which i wont waste about 2-3s of cast time every time i enter cover because the abilities decides not work.

 

and forget it, if someone wants you dead. you cant do ****, because our shield probe does NOTHING-NADA. and our Green Bubble only works against snipers.

 

and our set bonuses compared to BH is complete trash.

 

and the fact that an hybrid class does more dps than us... and can heal themselves and that all their damage is energy and kinetic when all ours is weapon except Orbital strike and dots, which can be cleanse easily.

 

TROLOLOLOL Bioware.

Edited January 23, 2012 by DestyOwn

[Fryseboks]

Dealing damage alone does not make a class good.

 

How do you get that damage? By hiding on a perch in Huttball sitting in one spot? By attacking people that arent attacking you? That is hardly any indication that class is good.

 

Bounty Hunter/Trooper has basically everything Sniper does except better and more of it and without having to use cover.

 

I haven't tried gunslinger, but as a gunnery commando I can say that commando/mercenary is a pretty immobile specc as well, and not too hard to lock down either when people actually use interrupts (which no one does, so I completely obliterate people on my lvl 42 commando in WZs, even more so if I am left completely alone). We actually do not have a reliable slow.

[Atamosk]

Snipers are really solid.

 

Cover cannot be leaped to. Cannot be interrupted in. Cannot be pulled from, and as if that wasn't enough, 1/3 of the time you're immune to CC (entrenched). Add to this ballistic dampeners shielding you from sudden burst such as scoperatives opening on you and you're pretty much equipped for every situation.

 

No other class can frontload as much damage (explosive probe, ambush followed by guaranteed crit snipe, follow-through and takedown). The burst is unrivaled and balanced through the energy hog that it is. But without that the class would just be too good.

 

Against sorcs you have a ranged interrupt but cannot be interrupted yourself. Against warriors you have a 5 second root on 12/15s CD while they cannot gap close you and if they run to you, you have cover pulse with built-in root as well as entrench to protect from choke when they're near.

 

Against scoperatives the initial burst is absorbed by dampeners after which you have half a dozen options if you trinket the opener. If you see them even briefly before they open up, you have a good chance of using entrench or cover pulse (which activates so so much faster than Force Wave, too). You can flash gren them and set up for a knockbacking ambush, or you can root, cover pulse, debilitate and use any of these even after they trinket one of them not to mention the two roots you have don't care about resolve either.

 

I'd probably say mercs are the toughest matchup, but even so it can go either way. Dampeners are almost built for taking tracer missiles, which you can also interrupt. Then it just becomes a damage race that depends on gear and RNG; they're favoured because of heavy armor but that's about it. If it's going bad, you can still often just leg it while leg shotting them (they're kinda poor at the whole mobility thing).

 

Anyway all in all, very solid. Not OP, not UP. Just solid, and right beasts in capable hands.

 

this this this. I have played my slinger in pvp and wile i am not a pro i found the best time ive had was a sharpshooter which relies so hevily on cover but at around 40 ish you get some sick abilities that let you unlaod on people. i can use three speed shots in a row and put the hurt on people.

 

again this game is not balanced around 1v1 so if you are in a group there really is no win/lose equation. to the op

 

if literally everyone is using their cc on you in some way then your entire team should be able to rofl stomp them because they will be completely helpless against your team. i find a lot of the issues of pvp are solved by team work. if someone is doing crazy dmg then he should be focused/ if someone is healing they should be focus. teamwork beats gimped/op class.

[Mazikeen]

For the Gunslingers/Snipers whining about getting jumped:

 

Debilitate

Leg Shot

Flash Bang

 

Yeah, those