From a Sorc, about Sorc nerf QQ... the low down.

[Sabbathius]

My only QQ about Sorcerers is that they have a huge force pool they don't have to manage.

 

BH has 100 heat. Attacks cost from 16-25 heat. Go over 40 heat, and your cooling slows down significantly. Overheat, and you're down to using basic attack for a looong time.

 

Sin has 100 energy. Attacks eat 25-45 energy each, and it doesn't exactly regen fast, so you have to plan ahead and make heavy use of procs to conserve it.

 

Warriors have 0 rage. Need to build it with Charge, Saber Throw, whatever, before you can do a thing. It keeps trying to go down to zero, and you have to keep generating it. Pain in the rear.

 

Sorcerers? 500-600 Force. Abilities cost 30-45 Force. Most expensive is Force Storm, which is a huge slowing/stunning AoE at 100 Force.

 

Need I say more?

 

Sin casts Shock? 45% of his energy pool GONE. Sorc casts the same Shock? 45 energy out of 600 gone. See the problem?

 

Fix that, and I have no problems with this class. Right now though, it is BY FAR the easiest class to play in the game. Even easier than Arsenal Mercs.

[Sirolos]

Your strikes sir.

 

1. Has the ability to do everything useful in PVP. (heal, prevent damage, CC well, DPS, area control, mobility)

 

It has the ability to do DPS very well, It has the potential to do Heals very well..not both.

As far as CC goes..

2 stuns electrocute and whirlwind.

 

1 KB overload

 

Whirlwind has a two second cast unless talented.. and it breaks on damage..

So they have literally one combat stun thats useful and one AoE KB.

 

Other classes have more CC than sorcs.

 

2. Stacks exceptionally well with other sorcs/sage and other support.

 

What class doesnt stack exceptionally well with support?

 

What class doesnt stack well with others?

 

3. Utterly ignores armor/defenses.

 

Unless they are 31 madness or lightning all of the attacks for Sorcs ( minus the one DoT called affliction which i believe does internal damage) All of the Sorcs attacks do Kinetic Damage

 

Armor reduces damage taken from Kinetic and Energy damage.

 

That means unless your fighting a 31 madness or lightning you are mitigating the majority of their attacks

4. Is easy to achieve good results with little skill. Has even better results with more skill.

 

That goes the same for all the ranged classes in this game..whats your point?

 

5. One of the best objective achieving classes in the game.

 

This is false.

Vanguards and Powertechs are the best objective class. Pulls, Leaps, Interuppts, CC, and very nice DPS in a cuddly heavy armor package.

 

6. Shield rebuff cooldown happens upon application, with pre-applied shield it's easy to have a double shield.

 

ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE A DOUBLE SHIELD.

It doesnt work that way.

7. Force speed is one of the single most useful skills in the game for both offense and defense as well as quick escapes and preventing escapes.

 

A speed boost for two seconds..

CC.

KB.

Leap.

Pull.

 

Guess what happens when you do one of the 4 when force speed happens?

8. Force speed prevents and breaks all snares.

Unless its an assassin Force speed doesnt prevent snares and it doesnt break them

9. Can perma snare people.

 

This is something I actually find troubling..I think Force Lightning and TK barrage need the slow removed from the base power and it needs to be a talent in the madness tree

 

10. Depending on the situation can have more effective health than a tank with shields/heals. Any slowing/stopping of DPS vs a sorc/sage raises effective HP significantly.

 

This is usually only the case when a HEALER is being Guarded...If a tank has Guard on a DPS they will both die.

Also this is usually the time when you and your TEAM burst down the healer..who is working with the tank as a team..

 

11. Has a rather lax resource limit which is only exaughsted in PVP after heavy fighting and spamming, while other classes need to constantly manage resources. Primarily due to a high initial pool and talents allowing the next skill to be cast free.

 

Other classes also put out 3x the damage in a single rotation than a Sorc/Sage

So maybe they should raise the damage sorcs/sages do, and lower their force pool

 

12. Hutball

 

13. Hutball

 

14. Huttball

 

You dont like huttball?..its awesome

Edited January 24, 2012 by Sirolos

[Coyotecalls]

I really don't think that sorc are that bad in and of themselves the problem is the general stunfest/knockback marathon that is PVP.

 

I have cover as my main defense mechanic and I get knocked out of it all the time. It's like running up to a bounty hunter and stripping off his armor. Sorc can stun at a distance, interrupt at a distance, and knock you off the hutt ball walk ways. If someone is in cover you shouldn't be able to knock them out of it, it's COVER that would imply some level of protection.

 

I don't begrudge them the knocking people off the catwalk thing, that is just a wise use of the power, but when that ability, or any other CC, can pull me out of cover and leave me effectively without armor of any kind I have a problem with it.

[mufutiz]

My only QQ about Sorcerers is that they have a huge force pool they don't have to manage.

 

 

That's just icing on the cake, imo.

 

Granted, one of the key factors why this AC is probably the easiest class to play well or even just moderately well, but just part of the bigger issue.

[Sirolos]

I really don't think that sorc are that bad in and of themselves the problem is the general stunfest/knockback marathon that is PVP.

 

I have cover as my main defense mechanic and I get knocked out of it all the time. It's like running up to a bounty hunter and stripping off his armor. Sorc can stun at a distance, interrupt at a distance, and knock you off the hutt ball walk ways. If someone is in cover you shouldn't be able to knock them out of it, it's COVER that would imply some level of protection.

 

I don't begrudge them the knocking people off the catwalk thing, that is just a wise use of the power, but when that ability, or any other CC, can pull me out of cover and leave me effectively without armor of any kind I have a problem with it.

 

Dont you have a Cooldown that makes you IMMUNE to CC..

 

Entrench

Instant

Entrenches you into cover, becoming immune to all controlling effects. Only usable in cover. Ends prematurely if cover is exited. Lasts 20 seconds.

And dont you have an AoE KB for cover?

60sec CD

 

and stuns

 

the cover pulse that also immobilizes

 

 

 

and Damage reduction shields

 

Doesnt your snipe hit for 3-4k per cast?

 

If you let a sorc or sage out play you..and you sit their..who's fault is it?

 

You have more than two ways to sit in cover and free cast..

ESPECIALLY since your immune to interrupts and leaps in cover.

If your running the ball as a sniper/gunslinger...you should stop...find the nearest jugg,assassin, or powertech..and pass...they do the job 200000x more effectively than you.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Sirolos

[Coyotecalls]

Dont you have a Cooldown that makes you IMMUNE to CC..

 

Entrench

Instant

Entrenches you into cover, becoming immune to all controlling effects. Only usable in cover. Ends prematurely if cover is exited. Lasts 20 seconds.

And dont you have an AoE KB for cover?

60sec CD

 

and stuns

 

the cover pulse that also immobilizes

 

 

 

and Damage reduction shields

 

Doesnt your snipe hit for 3-4k per cast?

 

If you let a sorc or sage out play you..and you sit their..who's fault is it?

 

You have more than two ways to sit in cover and free cast..

ESPECIALLY since your immune to interrupts and leaps in cover.

If your running the ball as a sniper/gunslinger...you should stop...find the nearest jugg,assassin, or powertech..and pass...they do the job 200000x more effectively than you.

 

 

The reply to all these questions are the same: Not yet, but I'm only 19.

Perhaps I get something that doesn't make me an instant free kill for anything with a stun or CC later on but 20 levels of getting my *** handed too me the moment anyone targets me is getting REALLY old. I know we are suppose to be range and all but there are only so many places you can hide on a battlefield. Any Knight who sees me knocks me out of cover and then force leaps too me. So the whole "Immune while you're in cover" thing is kinda not there. I'm not even sure what they are using to knock me out of cover. The animation looks like the light-saber throw that you give someone the healing debuff with. But basically my combat goes like this, I snipe someone for 2K-2.5 then I follow up with another 2K from my damage sab charge and my energy builder furry of bolts. Then I start to cast Charged burst... It's at that point they go "Hey, look, someone is hurting me, I should kill them." and stun me while they close on me or knock me out of my cover so they can force leap to me, or instant cast whirlwind me out of my cover again, so they can close on me, or if they are a trooper/bounty hunter they just shoot rockets at me with the "Win button." doing so much DPS that even -in- cover my long *** cast times get me dead long before I can even do damage to them.

 

But the point is, I do damage, they see me, they kill me, I run back out and repeat. It's really just not fun. I can only ever successfully kill the lower levels or the wounded and because my cover shield stands out like a giant "I'M AN EASY KILL" sign people mow me down.

 

But none of these things are specific to sorcerers and that is my point. It's not that Sorc are OP it's that the game mechanics for PVP regarding stuns, knock-backs and interrupts are not being managed right.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Coyotecalls

[ErosGyne]

Sirolos, you really dont know what you are talking about, with the amount of stun and CC, a gunslinger against a sorc will never be in cover, and with damage that ignores everthing(armour,etc) they will died before leaving the first stun, sorc can do litle damage, but ignores armour and others defence, this makes then do more DPS that a pure DPs class that dont ignore the defence of the opponent Edited January 24, 2012 by ErosGyne

[Blue]

 

Let's face it, any class up against the Sorc is going to kill it, unless they just have no clue as to how to play their class.

 

Thank you for the laugh! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Sinemetu]

I'm not sure they need to directly nerf sorcs. If they just made it so snares and roots increased resolve the way they ought to, the AV would be a lot less dangerous. No more permacc for them.

[Coyotecalls]

It's actually a really simple fix. Put a property on the player object called "Stun" and list the stun effects in the game. Once you have been hit by those effects you get a three second buff that makes you 30% resistant to all other effects on the list. This buff stacks up to 3 times and lasts 3 seconds. Adding a new stack refreshes the 3 second counter.

 

Then make the same kind of buff for Knockback, and one for Interrupts.

 

You can get rid of the silly bar you have which really does -nothing- to help anyone.

[Fraeg]

RAAAAAAH I hate everybody, the only thing not OP were the Bobs in the original Bungee fps Marathon.

 

 

I hate you ALLLLLLL RHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Before the nerf bat starts swinging at any class it would be nice to actually see pvp happen where both sides are fully geared. To bad that simply won't happen.

[Coyotecalls]

I think that is what the test realm is for.

[AlterEgg]

RAAAAAAH I hate everybody, the only thing not OP were the Bobs in the original Bungee fps Marathon.

 

 

I hate you ALLLLLLL RHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Before the nerf bat starts swinging at any class it would be nice to actually see pvp happen where both sides are fully geared. To bad that simply won't happen.

 

Yeah it wont happen cause the inquisitors all have battlemaster gear from winning all the time lol

[Gorto]

Guess what your next in the que now that ops are done with.

 

Have a nice day.

[Belzuba]

I must comment one thing.. The all the time repeated you sorc got so much CC >

 

I am damn medic, i have 1 insta CC! that has cooldown of 1 minute and second that casts for 2 seconds and can be interupted by dmg....

 

Ohhh my amount of CC is ridiculous, quickly nerf me !!!!

 

 

1st - Get to 50 first

2nd- Get some equip ( everybody has to get it in a hard way )

3rd - By grinding for equip learn to play

 

Come back and re-evaluate your opinion.

[Beta-Knight]

You honestly dont think Sorc's are not overpowered? really?

 

Try playing one. I agree 100% on this post! It tells the truth!

[Numerii]

I can't understand why people complain about sorcerers.

 

Yes we have CC, but no more than say Smugglers or IA, we have sprint, so what other classes can leap 50f across a room, we have a shield? SO? other classes can put up a shield lowing all damage to nothing for 20 sec...

 

Sorcerer damage is pathetic, we can't kill anything that is being healed, when we focus targeted we can do nothing, sprint wont save us.

 

look at this player, he is a skilled sorcerer picking on stupid players who can't look up.

 

he is using battlemaster gear, does that damage look scary? 1k hits? maybe a 2k here and there, slow tick dots and easy to counter channel attack? nothing he does is scary, he doesnt 4 shot people, he can't hit over 3k he cant leap tall building and own 2 players, he can't stun aoe and aoe **** for 4k a tick, he can't sit immune to all cc and interupts while pumping out 5k hit chains, he cant stealth and attack for 10k damage then instantly restealth.

 

all he can do is Dot, slow, stun and heal and do none of these as well as other classes.

 

I like that guy's playstyle, I do a similar run-and-gun style myself, the class pretty much forces you to because you're not going to survive for long if you stand still. I also love how he makes great use of the WZ buffs, was surprised that they always seemed to be up and he was the only one going for them though.

[CommandoPower]

Look I'm not gonna argue further. I posted my points and, from your biased perspective, you found them invalid.

 

Really all I have to do is wait and just like OPs who said they were fine, you'll be nerfed. I'll come back and make a few LOL responses with a little logic strapped on and it'll be done with. Same story is going to happen to tracer/grav round spam. Ironically same story is going to happen to guardians/juggy's when they are done with the others.

 

Then we'll see from there how balance is.

 

You can argue, you can rage, you can disagree, you can post blatantly false information and underplay every aspect. But you cannot stop it .

 

Enjoy

Edited January 25, 2012 by CommandoPower

[XLGrandma]

I dont think sorcs need to be re-done really. The damage is large, which it should be. Casters should be the highest dmg on the field, close with stealths. Their survivability seems a bit strong for me. I play a jedi shadow at the moment, and tend to do fairly well in PvP. I can unstealth, get a couple backstabs in, and which they have still taken zero dmg so far, they have already zoomed to the other side of the map and recasted bubble. In which case i usually chase, stun, then go for the kill. The only thing I would see to change is a longer CD on bubble. The dmg i feel is right in line with a caster class. It seems they traded off some of the burst I feel a caster should have, in exchange with more survivability, I feel in general all classes need to have their survivability scaled down though at this point, not just the sorcs. It would be fun to be able to solo another class i feel i should be able to solo, however rare that is in warzone fights.

[cyvaris]

I dont think sorcs need to be re-done really. The damage is large, which it should be. Casters should be the highest dmg on the field, close with stealths. Their survivability seems a bit strong for me. I play a jedi shadow at the moment, and tend to do fairly well in PvP. I can unstealth, get a couple backstabs in, and which they have still taken zero dmg so far, they have already zoomed to the other side of the map and recasted bubble. In which case i usually chase, stun, then go for the kill. The only thing I would see to change is a longer CD on bubble. The dmg i feel is right in line with a caster class. It seems they traded off some of the burst I feel a caster should have, in exchange with more survivability, I feel in general all classes need to have their survivability scaled down though at this point, not just the sorcs. It would be fun to be able to solo another class i feel i should be able to solo, however rare that is in warzone fights.

 

 

Wait Casters should be the highest DPS...followed by stealthers. Excuse me I think I will need a good ten minutes to stop laughing at how stupid that statement is.

 

 

Okay I am good now. Non Stealthing Melee DPS needs to be the highest DPS, we have few advantages, so it needs to be made up for in some way, why not give us more damage?

 

 

Also while I have been a vehement voice for nerfing Sorcs now that I have a large amount of level 50 pvp play under my belt...well Sorcs aren't really that bad. Nerf bubble damage absorb/cooldown time if you aren't heal specced and everything would be good.

[CommandoPower]

Wait Casters should be the highest DPS...followed by stealthers. Excuse me I think I will need a good ten minutes to stop laughing at how stupid that statement is.

 

 

Okay I am good now. Non Stealthing Melee DPS needs to be the highest DPS, we have few advantages, so it needs to be made up for in some way, why not give us more damage?

 

 

Also while I have been a vehement voice for nerfing Sorcs now that I have a large amount of level 50 pvp play under my belt...well Sorcs aren't really that bad. Nerf bubble damage absorb/cooldown time if you aren't heal specced and everything would be good.

 

In reality the bubbles flying everywhere stacking with healing and everything else they do is simply making it difficult to kill entire teams. Removing any lynch pin would definitely accomplish a fix and since I've had a guildie state that he could likely get 300k healing in a match with bubbles alone I wouldn't be surprised at all to have that be the target.

 

(If you think about it that makes alot of sense. Even trying to stay on the low end of things with 3k bubble, it has a low CD and can be applied continuously to your entire team. 100 fully eaten bubbles in a match is definitely possible)