The Hardcore are what drive MMO's. So goes the hardcore, so goes SWTOR

[Iusedtoplaywow]

I really hate bringing wow into posts, but fact is WOTLK had the most live subs in the history of the game. WE all know that Wrath was aimed at the casuals. Cataclysm hit and fire lands was hard for most of the wrath people. Yeah the numbers took a massive dive. Please don't tell me that hardcore players are the majority, not only is it arrogant to think it, it's also naive.

 

Subs dropped because everything in that game is 'been there done that'.

 

Same reason EQ died. And UO. MMO's have a shelf life.

[Rykzon]

Not majority, but without some hardcore gamer the game will fail.

[Jett-Rinn]

somewhat agree with OP

 

hardcores drive MMOs forward,

 

they are the ones will test new content first, encounter and report bugs first, without hardcore players, the casuals will not get the amount of polished content when they eventually reach it

 

to succeed MMOs need to cater for both,

 

having multiple difficult modes is one of the great feature that allows both casuals and hardcores to experience the same encounter

 

if an MMO is set strictly for a casual crowd, it will lose that edge that hardcore players help drive

 

That is simply not true; I have been in the industry for ten years...I have worked with companies like SOE Turbine and Cryptic...the only people Hardcores are important to are other Hardcores and at most they represent 1.2% of the total player base.

 

And they are becoming less important all the time.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[djsmileey]

I'm not a hardcore player but what he says is true.

 

It has been proven in multiple MMOs.

 

Hardcore players create the top guilds, communities etc and drive what's going on.

 

Hardcore players showing off gives casuals something to strive for.

 

Their presence is greater than someone who plays for a couple hours, a couple times a week.

 

They build guilds and structure so casuals can be part of something when their on.

 

Hardcores show casuals what to do n how.

 

Etc

 

You need hardcores plain n simple.

 

I think you may have a construed view of what a 'hardcore' player actually is. Some of the things you mention have nothing to do with being hardcore. What you are describing sounds more like comparing a noob and a veteran.

Edited January 18, 2012 by djsmileey

[Mayana]

Who is going to test your game on the test realms? Without hardcores your game would be a buggy pile of **** that doesn't function.

 

It'll be the true testers that enjoy beta testing and actually helping developers find bugs. Hardcore are just there to learn the content so they can be "world firsts". You need only go back a month or two and check out the guilds in WoW that got banned after learning how to exploit fights in PTR and then trying to be "first" in live with their exploits...they certainly weren't there to report bugs or help the game.

[MrTijger]

Star Wars conventions are the very definition of "cool," though.

 

Nah, equally sad...mind you, I will go to Comic Con one day.

[RiskyBiz]

OP's post left a really bad taste in my mouth.

[Bladedakoda]

Subs dropped because everything in that game is 'been there done that'.

 

Same reason EQ died. And UO. MMO's have a shelf life.

 

Wrath had the biggest numbers in the history of the game, it bought a whole lot of new people into wow, please don't tell me it is because people have been there done that.

[Lethality]

This has been true since the days of UO/EQ1. The hardcore drive the game. They are the most involved in every aspect of the game and are the ones who create communities.

 

The hardcore give the casuals someone to look up to. Casuals look at the hardcore gamer and their gear and accomplishments and want to be like them. This in turns gets casuals to play more and push to be more hardcore themselves. Without the hardcore crowd casuals will never see what they could possibly become and without any cool goals to look forward to casuals lose interest.

 

If SWTOR is to succeed it needs to focus a good chunk of its dev time on endgame content which is difficult and gives out rare rewards that few will get but everyone will dream of obtaining.

 

This dynamic has been proven true time and time again. It is no longer hypothesis. It is no longer even a theory. It is fact.

 

Well, I agree on your statements but the fact of the matter is we're a very small part of the target audience at this point.

[Nerdwing]

I'd like to see the hardcore players -DRIVE OFF A CLIFF- AHEHEHEHEHHEEHEHEHHEHEHEE

[fenrishero]

That is simply not true; I have been in the industry for ten years...I have worked with companies like SOE Turbine and Cryptic...the only people Hardcores are important to are other Hardcores and at most they represent 1.2% of the total player base.

 

And they are becoming less important all the time.

 

Hardcore doesn't matter in F2P, because micro transactions are your revenue streams, and they are much easier for a casual gamer to justify then 15 bucks a month. Hardcores are the ones who justify 15 dollar subscription fees to themselves.

 

Also, games like Farmville make most of their money off insane people who spend hundreds of dollars a month on micro transactions, so maybe it's a little early to bury the hardcore gamer.

[Jett-Rinn]

OP is dropping fact bombs and the Dev's at Blizzard will be the first to tell you this.

 

Umm no

 

Right now Blizzard is circling the wagons trying desperately to win back those causal players who left after Cataclysm....and they are doing everything shy of taking you by the hand walking you to Deathwings lair and handing you Tier Gear.

 

The Casual players is the single most important demographic to Blizzard right now.....MOP is being built as a love letter to the causal.

 

That my friend is a fact bomb.

[Mannic]

That is simply not true; I have been in the industry for ten years...I have worked with companies like SOE Turbine and Cryptic...the only people Hardcores are important to are other Hardcores and at most they represent 1.2% of the total player base.

 

And they are becoming less important all the time.

 

Yeah well during my 8 years as CFO for Blizzard, I learned that harcore players actually make up 17.4% of the MMO population and that extreme casuals are 77% more likely to wet their diapers at the first sign of PvP.

 

It sure is fun and easy to make up false credentials and throw terrible statistics out on the internet.

[RiskyBiz]

p.s. Wrath of the Lich King catered to casuals, it was easy enough for us to raid and get good gear. Sure, hard modes were tough so the elitists and hardcores could still flex their guns-- but WotLK was the most popular installment of WoW.

 

And then came Cataclysm, and the game got hard-- and look at how the subscriptions keep falling.... I know I cancelled, I didn't have fun anymore.

[Thankyjack]

I love the original post. It's a true classic!

 

Reminds of the movie Stripes:

 

OP likes fast cars and fast women, that's why the call him the cruiser.

 

I call him the dork (which is another term for hardcore video gamer).

Edited January 18, 2012 by Thankyjack

[Enthused]

I just want to know why nothing is being added for PvP. I don't care if there is only 3 warzones. We need rated warzones and arena battle for the hardcore. Free months almost up, we'll see the numbers after that

[Inthecrevice]

There are too many definitions of what exactly a hardcore is. Everything you do has them, people who make themselves out to be superior to everyone because they have more time/money. I guess it comes down to who would you rather talk to at a Star Wars convention. Someone dressed as a trooper who made everything themselves at home knows its not the greatest but it looks decent and he loves it. Or someone who bought everything, had custom made ****** equipment and is harping on the guy who made everything himself.

 

Casuals are the base, so called hardcores (because even amongst hardcores you are not as hardcore as them) are the upper fringe. Power leveling so you can get the best gear and max everything out before anyone else makes you a speed freak not a hardcore.

 

To me a real hardcore is one who does every quest, takes in the whole game and in a way becomes one with the game. As in hardcore music someone who lives the life. You can be punk but to be hardcore you have to live it.

[Enthused]

p.s. Wrath of the Lich King catered to casuals, it was easy enough for us to raid and get good gear. Sure, hard modes were tough so the elitists and hardcores could still flex their guns-- but WotLK was the most popular installment of WoW.

 

And then came Cataclysm, and the game got hard-- and look at how the subscriptions keep falling.... I know I cancelled, I didn't have fun anymore.

 

WHAT?! the game got hard? the game is getting easier and easier

[jarjarloves]

This has been true since the days of UO/EQ1. The hardcore drive the game. They are the most involved in every aspect of the game and are the ones who create communities.

 

The hardcore give the casuals someone to look up to. Casuals look at the hardcore gamer and their gear and accomplishments and want to be like them. This in turns gets casuals to play more and push to be more hardcore themselves. Without the hardcore crowd casuals will never see what they could possibly become and without any cool goals to look forward to casuals lose interest.

 

If SWTOR is to succeed it needs to focus a good chunk of its dev time on endgame content which is difficult and gives out rare rewards that few will get but everyone will dream of obtaining.

 

This dynamic has been proven true time and time again. It is no longer hypothesis. It is no longer even a theory. It is fact.

 

actually that changed when WoW came out

[RiskyBiz]

WHAT?! the game got hard? the game is getting easier and easier

 

Cataclysm, when it first hit, was really tough (especially as a healer accustomed to Wrath). I cancelled shortly after release. I didn't know it got easy again.

[Bladedakoda]

WHAT?! the game got hard? the game is getting easier and easier

 

It is now, cause they droped a whole lot of people when Fire Lands came out. Why do you think they made a easy mode for LFR.

[alrighto]

That is simply not true; I have been in the industry for ten years...I have worked with companies like SOE Turbine and Cryptic...the only people Hardcores are important to are other Hardcores and at most they represent 1.2% of the total player base.

 

And they are becoming less important all the time.

 

disagree with you 100% (sorry but you could be the CEO of blizzard/EA/whatever for all I care)- agree to disagree ?

 

Yes they are the minority but they help drive the envelope

 

they are the reason bugs are found, new content issues are found, etc,

 

minority but very important part of every successful MMO

[Gruug]

Ahhh...the old "hardcore is ELITE" argument. Read through this and not once have I read someone post solid evidence that MMO's are driven by or dependent upon the so-called "hard-core". To be honest, I would not give a nickel for someone that CLAIMS that.

 

The first argument that could be made is this....NO ONE HAS A CLEAR DEFINITION OF WHAT A "HARD-CORE" PLAYER REALLY IS. I could claim I am hardcore....but how do you really know? What definition am I using? Is it time you play in a day? A week? Do you have to be a "raider" or "pvp'er"? Do you have to be part of an "Elite(ist) Guild"? Point is...there is no real definition....only what someone THINKS!

 

So, to those that think they are the mover and shakers.....no thanks! I will play my way and if you think you are going to steam roll me to believe in YOUR way.....YOU can take the highway!

[Thankyjack]

disagree with you 100% (sorry but you could be the CEO of blizzard/EA/whatever for all I care)- agree to disagree ?

 

Yes they are the minority but they help drive the envelope

 

they are the reason bugs are found, new content issues are found, etc,

 

minority but very important part of every successful MMO

 

You sound proud to be hardcore. You should not be proud to be a hardcore video gamer.

[djsmileey]

Yeah well during my 8 years as CFO for Blizzard, I learned that harcore players actually make up 17.4% of the MMO population and that extreme casuals are 77% more likely to wet their diapers at the first sign of PvP.

 

It sure is fun and easy to make up false credentials and throw terrible statistics out on the internet.

 

LOL.

 

Normally I am keen on jumping on the opposing side with you mannic. I couldn't help but laugh at this, people who pull random statistics to prove a point have to realize they only negate their entire post by doing so.

 

As for the topic however, I do agree -- hardcore are definitely the smaller demographic.

 

I don't think they should be the focus, but they certainly should be included in the thought process. However, if a game truly wants to succeed, they damn well better pull in the casuals left and right.