Sage force armor has got to go

[UnimatrixSteel]

I don't know if the title of this thread is serious. Take away the force armor/bubble and what does the sage/sorcerer have to mitigate some of the damage since it fills the role of a glass cannon. They already wear light armor that doesn't mitigate much damage at at all. I do play a healer sorc and my dps is weak but when I do pvp I spam bubbles on all my team mates. So, spam bubbles and heals, and run. lol... I'm able to because I'm specced as healer. A dps sorc/sage may not be able to spread the bubble much due to the higher force cost. Obviously, Empire side will have more sorcerers, but those sages on Republic should also be putting bubbles on their team mates. It's called team play, instead most people just try to only dps and gain as much medals for themselves, forgetting team work.

 

Also, the Op calls the bubble "god mode," that's stretching it too far. The bubble is easily downed.

Edited January 18, 2012 by UnimatrixSteel

[Borgbunny]

I run a Sage as my Republic main, and I have noticed a couple of things:

 

1) Aggro magnet. To the point that there's an ability in the tree to reduce it. And it has a freakin' LONG cooldown, too. Force Armor can sometimes be the difference between keeping up your team and not.

 

2) Force Armor does not last very long in combat. I don't know the exact amount of damage, but a couple of troopers or mercs doing Full Auto or Unload can take it down pretty quickly. Heck, it only lasts for 30 seconds if it doesn't take a single hit.

 

But in spite of that, the OP feels that not being able to take one down is sufficient reason the nerf the CLASS!?!?!? That's...intriguing. I had trouble with that class, so their capabilities should be reduced? Then I'd like the same for the Epic opponents. They're tough, with all those hitpoints and special abilities, and must be nerfed immediately. For the good of the game.

[ShiningOne]

Sages have 4 base healing abilities:

2 big heals: 1.5s and 2.5s cast time – cannot move while casting

1 HoT: instant, 6s cool down – can move while casting

1 Channelled: 9s cool down – cannot move while casting

 

If a player invests 31 points in their healing tree, they also get an AoE heal: 2s cast, cannot move, 15s cool down.

 

Also, if you invest a perk in a certain skill, your affliction-removal ability will heal for 150-250hp. Instant, can move while casting. Big whoop.

 

So that’s it.

 

I don’t know where you get ‘spamming heals’ from, but I certainly would love to learn that trick. Perhaps you’ve seen someone who has invested extensively in Alacrity (which lowers casting times), but that skill has no impact on cool down.

 

Force Armour has an 8 second cool down. It also causes "force imbalance" which lasts for 20s so you cannot reapply it right away. It has 1 perk that lowers the cost and cool down by 3s each time you take it (2X), and another perk that increases damage absorption (2x).

 

The amount of damage it absorbs is limited. I think the most I’ve heard of is around 7k-8K. However, to get that you have to divide your skill points between two trees to reach second tier, where the Shield skills are.

 

For most sages, a couple missiles will bring it down (I think BHs can crit for 4.5K each or more). A good melee attack and it is gone. Agents can cut through it like butter most of the time.

 

I promise, Shield can be a help, but it is in no-way a game-changer when facing off against serous aggro.

[armoredcowboy]

Well, maybe the timer can be set to a lower time before depleting, maybe 20s. And maybe cost a little more force power. Or at least increase cooldown timer to 3-4 mins. That's way, instead of using it as something that can be used at the beginning of the match. Or maybe their damage and healing is less effective while its active. Iuse reactive shield,( which is a trooper ability that decreases damage by 25% for 12 seconds ) when I'm protecting an objective and at half health. Being smart at using abilities so that you can live longer isn't something troops or bounty hunters have to do. Also, maybe there can be that sort of thing for all classes. I think it's unfair that the force armor is better than the reactive shield and other abilities for defense and can still be used pretty often. I think all classes, whether able to use force shield or without, should be able to use abilities with strategy. Edited May 19, 2013 by armoredcowboy
Removing signature,( it is incorrect )

[Justcae]

Thread Necro much?

 

Force bubble is fine.

[SomeJagoff]

Well, maybe the timer can be set to a lower time before depleting, maybe 20s. And maybe cost a little more force power. Or at least increase cooldown timer to 3-4 mins. That's way, instead of using it as something that can be used at the beginning of the match. Or maybe their damage and healing is less effective while its active. Iuse reactive shield,( which is a trooper ability that decreases damage by 25% for 12 seconds ) when I'm protecting an objective and at half health. Being smart at using abilities so that you can live longer isn't something troops or bounty hunters have to do. Also, maybe there can be that sort of thing for all classes. I think it's unfair that the force armor is better than the reactive shield and other abilities for defense and can still be used pretty often. I think all classes, whether able to use force shield or without, should be able to use abilities with strategy.

 

lol they already nerfed the absorb amount by half, it pops on 1 hit now. Most importantly, no more stun.

 

It may be a "better" defensive ability than other classes have because it can be used on friendlies and it's on a shorter cooldown, but you also need to remember than sages have the least armor in the entire game. So while it can be used on friendlies, it's a matter of survival for the sages themselves. If they removed the bubble, they'd have to buff their armor rating up by 30% or more with a tree talent like for deception/madness sins.

 

For the vanguard example, no, terrible comparison, it's a million times easier to pop a sage's bubble and kill them (2-3shot) than to kill a vanguard with the reactive shield up. 25% damage reduction + heavy armor (+ maybe the extra armor buff from the skill tree) > sage with bubble.

 

P.S. BRAIIINNNNSSS!!!!!

[teclado]

I know i am not the only person thinking this. I watched a sage 4 times in huttball pick up the ball and walk with force armour on my entire team giving everything in our abilities and all ya see is "absorb" "absorb" while they prance in like the weak gamers they are.

 

let alone the un-interruptible heals they spam.

 

Personally i would get very bored fast with only 2 moves

spam heal

spam rocks.

 

bottom line a 60s untouchable god mode(force armour) should only be 10-20s tops.

Sorc's as their supposed equals max armour is only 30s

 

also toe to toe sage fully geared against sorc geared one spam rocks other lightning I'd give 1000 to 1 the sage wins before his hp is down to half.

 

IMHO Sage need the biggest nerf of all

Shhhh don't give away our invincibility secrets!!

[Ghost_Spectre]

I know i am not the only person thinking this. I watched a sage 4 times in huttball pick up the ball and walk with force armour on my entire team giving everything in our abilities and all ya see is "absorb" "absorb" while they prance in like the weak gamers they are.

 

let alone the un-interruptible heals they spam.

 

Personally i would get very bored fast with only 2 moves

spam heal

spam rocks.

 

bottom line a 60s untouchable god mode(force armour) should only be 10-20s tops.

Sorc's as their supposed equals max armour is only 30s

 

also toe to toe sage fully geared against sorc geared one spam rocks other lightning I'd give 1000 to 1 the sage wins before his hp is down to half.

 

IMHO Sage need the biggest nerf of all

 

Really? Spam heals and a shield that lasts for 60 seconds and can absorb untold tons of damage? Pardon me while I...BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

 

As a Sage & Sorcerer healer player I can attest to what you said, as others have pointed out, you are dead wrong on all counts.

 

A Sage and Sorcerer only have 2 instant cast heals. 1 is a self heal only with a 30 second cool down and the other is a small heal with a 6 second cool down. The remaining 4 healing powers must be cast or channeled. Now our puddle heal can be an instant cast only after receiving 3 stacks Rejuvenate after casting a big channeled heal. Which takes about 27 or so seconds to come into play without interruptions for those stacks to be available to make the puddle an instant heal.

 

Force Armor & Static Barrier last for 30 seconds and absorb between 6 & 7k for those not specced TK or Lightning, these specced trees allows for 10% more to absorb. Force Armor & Static Barrier have no cool down now thanks to 2.0. However, only those specced heals has a lower lockout from 20 to 17 seconds. These are not 'Globes of Invulnerability.'

 

What I get from your QQ here is you do not know what the Sage & Sorcerer are capable of, only from what you've been told. It might behoove you to research and study what these ACs are capable of. All of their non-instant powers are interruptible except for the insta-cast ones. If you are having problems with these ACs then you may want to look at how you are using your own abilities. Quit crying about nerfing these classes further just so you can get your 1 GCD kills. Now you have to work for your medals. Tough. Sage & Sorcerer healing and shields are working as intended.

[Monterone]

The problem you guys are seeing is that crit is no longer a wanted stat, therefore more and more sorcs/sages are only stacking power.

 

Stacking power works very well with the bubble as it's a big increase to the bubble, even though the bubble cannot crit. Before 2.0 Force Armor could absorb up to 4.5-5k, but many sorcs took up to 300-350 crit rating or so. Now that every single piece on me has only power, and my bonus force damage is 1300+ without the relic procs, I wouldn't be surprised if my bubble absorbed 7.5k as a hybrid dps sorc.

 

On top of that, both the Conqueror and the Partisan power relic can proc at once and bump that bonus damage to 1500+... and you can see how the bubble would be pretty strong if cast when both procs are up.

 

Fix crit rating and make it useful again, and the bubble absorbs will start to diminish again.

 

But even so, if you can't break through an 8k bubble, you probably have a lot of gearing left to do.

 

 

 

Edit: and to correct some other posters, the bubble lasts 30s unless broken through and the cooldown on the same person is 20 seconds, with the mystic set bringing it down to 18.5s after the 2.0 nerf. Prior to 2.0 you could cast it every 17 seconds.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Monterone

[hobrogaming]

The problem you guys are seeing is that crit is no longer a wanted stat, therefore more and more sorcs/sages are only stacking power.

 

Stacking power works very well with the bubble as it's a big increase to the bubble, even though the bubble cannot crit. Before 2.0 Force Armor could absorb up to 4.5-5k, but many sorcs took up to 300-350 crit rating or so. Now that every single piece on me has only power, and my bonus force damage is 1300+ without the relic procs, I wouldn't be surprised if my bubble absorbed 7.5k as a hybrid dps sorc.

 

On top of that, both the Conqueror and the Partisan power relic can proc at once and bump that bonus damage to 1500+... and you can see how the bubble would be pretty strong if cast when both procs are up.

 

Fix crit rating and make it useful again, and the bubble absorbs will start to diminish again.

 

But even so, if you can't break through an 8k bubble, you probably have a lot of gearing left to do.

 

 

 

Edit: and to correct some other posters, the bubble lasts 30s unless broken through and the cooldown on the same person is 20 seconds, with the mystic set bringing it down to 18.5s after the 2.0 nerf. Prior to 2.0 you could cast it every 17 seconds.

 

Wrong, pre 2.0 4-5k was with full power and 0 crit/alacrity I ran logs and know for a fact. No way its 8k post 2.0

[Monterone]

I can see it being in the 7-8k range now with certain buffs on and double proc from power relics. I ran around 250 crit before 2.0 and I've gotten 5k healing medals from one bubble. I'm sure there are others who have gotten 5k medals from the bubble pre-2.0.

 

I don't see why it's difficult to imagine a 7-8k bubble, we trained another level of Static Barrier, we gained another 5 levels... I'd say 6-7k is probably the new standard, 7-8k with procs.

 

And that's quite alright, I'm not saying this is too much... heck, we've seen 12-13k smashes post 2.0, so that's double the bubble. If you tone down the bubble you gotta tone down dps as well then.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Monterone

[DraonaiMimnov]

Hello? Please nerf Force Barrier for the sorcerers, it's obviously 2 minutes longer than the sage and doesn't require you to stand still.

[Daskillz]

I know i am not the only person thinking this. I watched a sage 4 times in huttball pick up the ball and walk with force armour on my entire team giving everything in our abilities and all ya see is "absorb" "absorb" while they prance in like the weak gamers they are.

 

let alone the un-interruptible heals they spam.

 

Personally i would get very bored fast with only 2 moves

spam heal

spam rocks.

 

bottom line a 60s untouchable god mode(force armour) should only be 10-20s tops.

Sorc's as their supposed equals max armour is only 30s

 

also toe to toe sage fully geared against sorc geared one spam rocks other lightning I'd give 1000 to 1 the sage wins before his hp is down to half.

 

IMHO Sage need the biggest nerf of all

 

You have effectively made me dumber reading this post. I truly applaud you for your effort.

[Battyone]

HOWTO: Get 7+ page posts on the swtor forums.

 

Say something stupid.

[ronniehenlau]

Holy Necro batman!

[Ghost_Spectre]

Wrong, pre 2.0 4-5k was with full power and 0 crit/alacrity I ran logs and know for a fact. No way its 8k post 2.0

 

For TK or Lightning spec it was 4560 points of damage absorb at level 50, pre 2.0. Now with 2.0, we have 5, that's five new levels to add for all skills. They lowered the absorption rate by 50% because the Force Armor / Static Barrier absorption ability increased with each new level. The bubbles absorb between 6 - 7k now for non specced TK and Lightning, which it is more now. If said bubbles did not scale up in damage absorption they would be completely useless. On a number of occasions my bubble has absorbed either a full blown smash, master strike, maul, rail shot, or thunder blast, before it dropped and I took no damage from it. I was never able to do that prior to 2.0. I can now. So you're wrong on your assumptions here, they did increase the absorption amount for the Force Armor & Static Barrier.

[Jayshames]

Can you stop posting now. Please.

[armoredcowboy]

lol they already nerfed the absorb amount by half, it pops on 1 hit now. Most importantly, no more stun.

 

It may be a "better" defensive ability than other classes have because it can be used on friendlies and it's on a shorter cooldown, but you also need to remember than sages have the least armor in the entire game. So while it can be used on friendlies, it's a matter of survival for the sages themselves. If they removed the bubble, they'd have to buff their armor rating up by 30% or more with a tree talent like for deception/madness sins.

 

For the vanguard example, no, terrible comparison, it's a million times easier to pop a sage's bubble and kill them (2-3shot) than to kill a vanguard with the reactive shield up. 25% damage reduction + heavy armor (+ maybe the extra armor buff from the skill tree) > sage with bubble.

 

P.S. BRAIIINNNNSSS!!!!!

 

Thanks for the info, just started playing again last week, yeah it's pretty easy to kill them some they have light armor. I stopped pvp at level 20, since I was getting decimated by the Assassins and Sorcerers, ( or they were warriors or something ). I was only starting tank. And also I remember that I didn't upgrade my gear since level 16 lol

Edited May 20, 2013 by armoredcowboy

[hobrogaming]

For TK or Lightning spec it was 4560 points of damage absorb at level 50, pre 2.0. Now with 2.0, we have 5, that's five new levels to add for all skills. They lowered the absorption rate by 50% because the Force Armor / Static Barrier absorption ability increased with each new level. The bubbles absorb between 6 - 7k now for non specced TK and Lightning, which it is more now. If said bubbles did not scale up in damage absorption they would be completely useless. On a number of occasions my bubble has absorbed either a full blown smash, master strike, maul, rail shot, or thunder blast, before it dropped and I took no damage from it. I was never able to do that prior to 2.0. I can now. So you're wrong on your assumptions here, they did increase the absorption amount for the Force Armor & Static Barrier.

 

Log or it didnt happen.

[AdmiralParmesan]

Its amazing how uneducated topics like this always get the most notice.

[_Kayko_]

Its amazing how uneducated topics like this always get the most notice.

 

It's amazing that people are responding to a post that was created less then 1 month after the games launch.