A Raider's Perspective - Infiltration vs Balance

[Jurugar]

TL;DR version:

Balance provides more sustained dps over an extended period (as well as more dps overall) and is more dynamic, but infiltration has better survivability and more consistent burst without being handicapped by switching targets.

 

Infiltration:

Primary Abilities: Clairvoyant Strike, Project, Force Breach (Shadow Technique)

Spec: 2/31/8

Recommended Fights: Gharj, Pylons, Bonethrasher, Soa

 

Infiltration is the spec that comes to mind when most think about the jedi shadow. It’s rotation is fairly linear, based around a standard 2x CV (+1 extra, usually an auto attack)-> Project, which repeats strictly every 4 GCDs, force permitting. As far as sustainability, the spec leaves much to be desired – you can only keep up your “max” dps rotation (aka using project every CD) for so long before you run out of force, even with prudent use of CDs and lucky force procs. Luckily, many fights have built in downtime that helps cushion our force bar in between CDs.

 

However, what the spec lacks in long term DPS it makes up for in survivability and utility. You get 30% reduced AOE dmg, which is huge on fights like Annihilator, Gharj and Bonethrasher, as well as ~5% additional reduction to kinetic/energy attacks and a flat 2% damage reduction. Additionally, you get an extra minute off force cloak to help drop aggro. Also noteworthy is the fact that infiltration doesn’t share balance’s handicap of requiring the target to have the force suppression debuff from force in balance to do full damage, meaning that an infiltration spec shadow can freely switch between targets with literally no downside other than travel time.

 

(NOTE: Shadow Strike is not part of a max sustainability rotation, so I didn’t include it as a primary ability and specced partially out of infiltration tactics in favor of 30% higher armor)

 

Balance:

Primary Abilities: Double Strike, Project, Force Breach (Force Technique), Shadow Strike, Mind Crush

Spec: 0/13/28

Recommended Fights: Annihilator (depending on strategy), Infernal Council

 

Balance is a very strange spec when compared next to infiltration. It forgoes a lot of direct damage in favor of DOTs and procs, has no strict rotation to speak of, and sometimes feels more like a caster than a stealthy assassin. However, from this unconventional style emerges by far the most “raid viable” spec that the shadow has, which boasts high sustained damage through dots, the potential for burst through procs, and a high enough energy regen that blackout becomes more of a “cooldown” and less a core part of your rotation. The rotation isn’t something you can write down, but more something you have to figure out for yourself. Main tenants include using force in balance on CD, keeping project’s 10% bonus melee dmg buff up, using mind crush whenever possible, and keeping force breach’s dot up. The rest is more of a series of judgment calls – do you use mind crush immediately, or do you wait a few seconds until force in balance is up so you get the full ticks of energy? Do you shadow strike first on proc, or do you project first to get the buff?

 

While the spec is much more dynamic in its execution, it does have several limitations that the infiltration spec does not. For one, the spec is very reliant on force in balance, both for pure damage as well as force regen from dots. The impact of this is twofold – firstly, the spell is an AOE with a targeting reticule on the ground, meaning you have to manually aim it and potentially miss on higher mobility targets (not to mention that you have to take the extra time to aim and click it), and secondly, switching targets often can leave you dpsing a target without the force suppression debuff, which, as mentioned earlier, will hurt both your damage and your regeneration.

 

You are also noticeably squishier as balance than infiltration. While you get a little health regeneration from your dots critting (should you choose that talent), you are now basically a sage as far as incoming damage is concerned – a sage in melee range, with no ability to shield or heal yourself.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Jurugar

[Tyrandaa]

(NOTE: Shadow Strike is not part of a max sustainability rotation, so I didn’t include it as a primary ability and specced partially out of shadow’s respite in favor of 30% higher armor)

 

I assume this means you didn't have Masked Assault. So curiousity has to ask... Why would you pick up <4% physical damage reduction rather than 82 Force every 45 seconds?

Edited January 17, 2012 by Tyrandaa

[Hydurz]

jus cleared ev first time in there norms ezsauce

 

 

I wish we had combat logs to create a juxtaposition between balance and inf..

 

 

 

the reduction from aoe talent in Inf, I wouldnt pick it up due to the fact that i dont plan on getting hit from aoe.. If i do i have a rakata medpack for that

 

 

 

I feel like balance and also Inf is like giving a sage a twohanded weapon sure they may hit for 1k melee but they crit for 5k force attacks

[Jurugar]

I assume this means you didn't have Masked Assault. So curiousity has to ask... Why would you pick up <4% physical damage reduction rather than 82 Force every 45 seconds?

 

The prerequisite for Masked Assault is Shadow's Respite, not Infiltration Tactics (the chance for reduced cost Shadow Strike).

 

Also, blackout only gives you 24 extra force every 45 seconds - you get 12 per sec for 6 seconds (72 total force) but you would normally have gotten 8 per sec for 6 sec (48 total force), giving you a net gain of 24 extra force. Adding in the 10 energy from using the ability, you get 34 bonus energy.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Jurugar

[Tyrandaa]

The prerequisite for Masked Assault is Shadow's Respite, not Infiltration Tactics (the chance for reduced cost Shadow Strike).

 

Also, blackout only gives you 24 extra force every 45 seconds - you get 12 per sec for 6 seconds (72 total force) but you would normally have gotten 8 per sec for 6 sec (48 total force), giving you a net gain of 24 extra force.

 

Your post said you dropped Shadow's Respite not infiltration tactics.

 

And don't forget the 10 instant force gain from pressing Blackout. So it would net 34

Edited January 17, 2012 by Tyrandaa

[Sogar]

Or you could look at the spec he linked before assuming and see that he was indeed talking about infiltration tactics instead of shadow respite which made a ton more sense.

 

Anyway, the OP is still wrong about that point though. A procc'ed shadow strike with find weakness and circling shadows is your max damaging ability just for 25 energy. So yeah, you have less projects but it's way worth it.

 

Take a look here if you doubt it : http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-May-The-Force-Be-With-You-managing-the-Sith-Assassin-s-Jedi-Shadow-s-resources

 

The rest of the analysis though is really true

[Tyrandaa]

Or you could look at the spec he linked before assuming and see that he was indeed talking about infiltration tactics instead of shadow respite which made a ton more sense.

 

Or I could trust what he wrote. He could have very well been correct in what he wrote and erred on the talent calculator.

 

At any rate, I agree with Hydruz. Bioware needs to hurry up with combat logging.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Tyrandaa

[Powershifterr]

All though I wouldn't agree with everything the OP said, but there have been some fights where I wish I was balance for the DOTs to keep damage up while im running or moving around to avoid other mechanics. I'm still a bit tempted to try it out again.

[Jurugar]

Your post said you dropped Shadow's Respite not infiltration tactics.

 

And don't forget the 10 instant force gain from pressing Blackout. So it would net 34

 

Yeah, I fixed it to say infiltration tactics, my b.

 

I knew shadow strike would be something I'd end up debating, but without combat logs it's hard to say who's right. All I can do is look at personal experience - my hardest shadow strikes tend to hit maybe like 4.4-4.6, where my hardest projects are about 3.9-4.2. However, you have to take into account the extra project particle - 45% chance for 50% damage approximates to on average 22.5% extra damage to project as a whole (while it's true that the main project particle critting doesnt make the 2nd rock crit, the 2nd rock has it's own equivalent chance to crit, so we can call it a wash and lump it in with the first rock). So, a non-crit upheaval particle would add about ~1.3k extra damage on average to your project.

 

As for sithwarrior, I have looked over their materials a bit. There calculations were for the most part done before the game even came out, or at the very least in the early stages of early access - even if the abilities are still the same, gear itemization is not (for example, they assume a well geared shadow would have 25% crit and 600 power, which are too low and too high, respectively).

 

I can only take their calculations and try to assimilate them with my own in game experience.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Jurugar

[Boarg]

I knew shadow strike would be something I'd end up debating, but without combat logs it's hard to say who's right. All I can do is look at personal experience - my hardest shadow strikes tend to hit maybe like 4.4-4.6, where my hardest projects are about 3.9-4.2. However, you have to take into account the extra project particle - 45% chance for 50% damage approximates to on average 22.5% extra damage to project as a whole (while it's true that the main project particle critting doesnt make the 2nd rock crit, the 2nd rock has it's own equivalent chance to crit, so we can call it a wash and lump it in with the first rock). So, a non-crit upheaval particle would add about ~1.3k extra damage on average to your project.

 

You pretty much have to look at the x2 CS + Project as a package because Project without the two buff stacks is pretty weak in terms of damage efficiency.

 

x2 CS + Project and then compare damage per force with SS w/ Find Weakness. I suspect consuming Find Weakness procs wins out easily.

 

Also, for the thinking in terms of biggest hits, etc, keep in mind that the crit multipliers are different.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Boarg

[Reii]

Good writeup, but something to highlight to readers:

 

The OP right about which specs are good for which fight, but to highlight, for a raider that doesn't wish to keep respeccing between fights Infiltration is the better spec as Bonetrasher and SOA are the fights that really matter. If a shadow has to go balance/infil for their raid to make the dps on annihilator/gharj/infernal council then they are never going to get bonetrasher or soa down.

 

 

edit: of course, if your guild is just pushing into hardmodes and your dps is tight on annihilator/gharj, feel free to spec balance/infil until your raid gets more gear, but definitely main Infiltration once you are working on SOA/Bonetrasher

Edited January 18, 2012 by Reii

[Jurugar]

I should also add that the pylons/puzzle boss is awful for the balance spec, seeing as how putting a dot on an enemy is like waving a red flag over your head screaming "please reflect my damage back at me!"

[Deathstroke]

You brought up some good points but as far as the Infiltration spec goes I would personally drop 2/2 out of Kinetic field and place back into Infiltration tactics. You want the buff as much as you can or else shadow strike is a complete waste of an ability.

 

You mentioned the AoE on Gharj. To be honest it's so easily avoidable that I wouldn't sacrifice 2 points of a talent tree into Kinetic field just to reduce dmg by 30% when you can completely avoid his and many other AoE abilities.

 

Celerity vs Misdirection. You mentioned utility. Yep! Decreasing the CD on mind snap which allows us to interrupt more often is amazing. I would say this is more so of a personal preferences then a bad decision but given the opportunity to be more effective out of combat since most of the time we are and interrupt is what I went with.

 

I have never really tried balance but on fights mentioned on the post When we were going through EV and trying different strats on the council i was the only one who was able to take out all three of classes (Maurader,Juggernaut or Assassin) specced as infiltration.

 

TL/DR My 2 cents for raiding it's maximizing dps additives on survivability are nice if coupled with DPS talents...if not don't lose out on dps when you as a player can avoid dmg