Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Zandilar]

I've played MMOs for years, and I would have to disagree, SWTOR is a BioWare RPG with Multiplayer mode wrapped around it, the very core of the game, is a solo RPG experience, you can see it's been designed like that by the very fact that you need to actively search for all the other modes of play, where as the Class quests are all over.

 

Fair enough. I can see where you're coming from.

 

In my experience, however, most other MMOs are "single player 'til cap", and before that point, you have to actively seek out other modes of play (PvP, Dungeons, etc).

 

Also, the class missions are unrelated to the other missions found on each planet. For example, while doing Belsavis...

 

 

My Jedi Consular went into it knowing exactly what the Esh-Ka were, and yet in several unrelated-to-class-story missions, she had the option of asking what an Esh-Ka was, or expressing that she didn't know what they were, or saying she had never heard of them (without it being marked as a lie)... even though it was clear from her class story, she already had heard of them, and knew what they were. It was a source of much head scratching for me.

 

 

So, what I'm saying there, you don't need to look far for non-story related stuff. Which is why I see it as a pretty standard MMO with story bolted onto the side.

 

Err... so... SGRA. Soon, please Bioware.

[kraidy]

Chances are, we'll only end up with one gay choice per class per gender - at least in the shorter term - and I really really don't want it to be Kaliyo.

 

@Rayla_Felana - I just have to ask... have you played very many MMOs before? Because SWTOR is a pretty standard MMO with story bits bolted on, AFAIC.

And that's still hardly a solution. I adore Temple, Kaliyo and W2, I frankly don't care about some random new character I will hardly ever use because Temple is my agents life saver. Giving us one gay choice per gender is bad, and many classes including agent have proven that having one romance per gender is bad. Inquis and agent suffer from this big time and many threads have been created about this issue. Nor do I want scraps. I want to be treated like a hetro player is treated, I want my options.

[Uluain]

Also: has anyone else been writing to BioWare, LucasArts, and/or EA? I still think getting their attention in as many ways as possible is a good idea. We really need to show them that this is important to us. I got an e-mail back from the support address today, an utterly canned response that said nothing about the issues I brought up. I clicked on the survey at the end, marked down some very negative opinions in several areas, and noted that my issues were not addressed at all. Hopefully they'll see that they're creating irate customers and change their tune.

I have and will continue to.

 

I actually began by filing an in-game ticket to report a bug that was preventing mission NPCs that offer [Flirt] prompts from displaying these in conversations when I am playing a character of the same gender.

 

I received the (canned) response within 24 hours.

 

I also filled out the survey with low marks in most areas. In the comments I explained that the response had not addressed my issue, much less resolved it.

 

Then I submitted a request for clarification on that ticket (using the ticket ID #) to support@swtor.com. In this request, I was specific about the response I received and how it failed to address my concern.

 

That received a non-canned response, from someone insufficiently caffeinated, overworked, or who had English as a second language - possibly all three. Not only did this not address my concern, but it was almost incoherent. The only upside was that someone took the time to try to reply.

 

I may ask Customer Support for further clarification on my particular concern, explaining that it has been submitted twice and not clearly addressed either time.

 

So yes, I plan to keep sending this across their desks, politely, clearly and succinctly. I also do plan to express my concern in a printed letter send by overland mail. I need to remember to ask at the post office about any additional postage required to send mail to Canada.

 

Really, the longer I look at the decision BioWare reached to exclude same-gender content at launch and to not commit to any particular time frame for adding it, the worse that decision seems.

 

Opponents of the inclusion of same-gender content are already up in arms as though it were included. Those who wish it were in game are getting shafted not only by having to wait while others go merrily along experiencing the whole game, but by BioWare refusing to discuss the issue, their plans or where they are in the process.

 

Who in hell made that policy decision, and why do they still have a job? Seriously. Bad move all around.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Uluain

[Zandilar]

And that's still hardly a solution. I adore Temple, Kaliyo and W2, I frankly don't care about some random new character I will hardly ever use because Temple is my agents life saver. Giving us one gay choice per gender is bad, and many classes including agent have proven that having one romance per gender is bad. Inquis and agent suffer from this big time and many threads have been created about this issue. Nor do I want scraps. I want to be treated like a hetro player is treated, I want my options.

 

OMG, I can't believe I forgot about Watcher Two! I love her!

 

I'm right here sitting next to you, kraidy. I don't want one gay option per class per gender either, I just think that that is the most likely outcome at the moment. And while I'd be happy for totally new companions for romance, I'd love old companions to be opened up to everyone, because some of them are just yum. (The more I play my JK, the more I love Kira... damn it.)

 

Digression: New companions (romantic or non-romantic) would be good too. Just for a change. To have other options when I'm out and about - as I said, I've not been able to work with anyone other than Kaliyo for 30 or so levels now with Jan'neria (not sure what I'm doing wrong, but I get torn down ultra fast when I have Temple with me, and I don't seem to do as much damage without backstab in my rotation, because Temple isn't a tank... not to mention the nerf that's pretty much killed any hope I have of soloing elites, even with Kaliyo)... A light side-ish tank would be nice (one that can actually hold aggro )... I know [redacted for spoilers] is also pretty grey if not dark, and besides I'm a little way off from getting [redacted pronoun], and I'm not sure [redacted pronoun] would help anyway.

[kraidy]

OMG, I can't believe I forgot about Watcher Two! I love her!

 

I'm right here sitting next to you, kraidy. I don't want one gay option per class per gender either, I just think that that is the most likely outcome at the moment. And while I'd be happy for totally new companions for romance, I'd love old companions to be opened up to everyone, because some of them are just yum. (The more I play my JK, the more I love Kira... damn it.)

 

Digression: New companions (romantic or non-romantic) would be good too. Just for a change. To have other options when I'm out and about - as I said, I've not been able to work with anyone other than Kaliyo for 30 or so levels now with Jan'neria (not sure what I'm doing wrong, but I get torn down ultra fast when I have Temple with me, and I don't seem to do as much damage without backstab in my rotation, because Temple isn't a tank... not to mention the nerf that's pretty much killed any hope I have of soloing elites, even with Kaliyo)... A light side-ish tank would be nice (one that can actually hold aggro )... I know [redacted for spoilers] is also pretty grey if not dark, and besides I'm a little way off from getting [redacted pronoun], and I'm not sure [redacted pronoun] would help anyway.

Kira <3

[Nozybidaj]

I'm right here sitting next to you, kraidy. I don't want one gay option per class per gender either, I just think that that is the most likely outcome at the moment.

 

If they were able to crank out a wide assortment of companions I'd agree too, but most classes don't have more than one hetero option per class per gender either (unless I'm totally misinformed there). I wouldn't expect more than that for same gender either.

 

For the sake of both fairness and expediency the best solution is really to allow the current romance options to be same gender options since the work is already done. With all the work already done and implemented in the game all they need to do is give us the option. In the future though it would be great to see both new companions and old companions perhaps opening up more options. Both those will be a long way off though.

 

Of course this still leaves the non-companion flirt options to deal with, but not having any of those either would feel a lot less like rubbing salt in the wounds if we at the least had companion options.

[Argentus]

You know, I've gone back and looked at every company response I could find on this topic and it seems to me that they haven't actually committed to SSRs at all. They've broadly hinted and let us do a lot of assuming, the actual language is vague enough that it seems unlikely we'll actually get them. Which is a bit of a shame on several levels.

[Uluain]

Of course this still leaves the non-companion flirt options to deal with, but not having any of those either would feel a lot less like rubbing salt in the wounds if we at the least had companion options.

I don't know that I would be mollified with a handful of deeply buried, slow to emerge same-gender romance options with companions who - in and of themselves - may or may not interest me while the far more visible, prevalent and instananeously unlocked [Flirt] prompts remain opposite-sex only. That kind of cautious half-measure would be just as bad as - if not worse than - not having included same-gender content in the game from launch.

 

And it is especially worrisome that if BioWare has even thought about same-gender [Flirt], they have said, and are saying, nothing about it.

 

You know, I've gone back and looked at every company response I could find on this topic and it seems to me that they haven't actually committed to SSRs at all. They've broadly hinted and let us do a lot of assuming, the actual language is vague enough that it seems unlikely we'll actually get them. Which is a bit of a shame on several levels.

Yes - that's a point others have noticed, too. I call it the non-answer answer. To break it down, all it says is that same-gender romances will not be in at launch (they are not) and that later on new companions with new options will be added - not any indication that said companions will offer same-gender romance.

 

In a way, it is an artful bit of rhetoric. It is really quite difficult to say so much on a topic without saying anything definite.

 

So that itself is a very solid reason that it is time for BioWare to actually address the issue. Saying they are dedicated to supporting diversity is one thing - and it looks pretty callous when it is all talk and no action.

[Kioma]

Saying they are dedicated to supporting diversity is one thing - and it looks pretty callous when it is all talk and no action.

 

You mean when it's almost no talk and certainly no action. In the case of TOR, at least.

 

I personally don't think that same-sex relationship options were omitted specifically as a slur against people who would like them, but I am getting sick of stock copy-and-pasted responses. That lack of discussion actually is bordering on direct insult, in my view, and I don't doubt certainly constitutes a slap in the face to many.

[MusedMoose]

You know, I've gone back and looked at every company response I could find on this topic and it seems to me that they haven't actually committed to SSRs at all. They've broadly hinted and let us do a lot of assuming, the actual language is vague enough that it seems unlikely we'll actually get them. Which is a bit of a shame on several levels.

Yes - that's a point others have noticed, too. I call it the non-answer answer. To break it down, all it says is that same-gender romances will not be in at launch (they are not) and that later on new companions with new options will be added - not any indication that said companions will offer same-gender romance.

Both of you are incorrect. The quote we've been getting since September:

"Due to the design constraints of a fully voiced MMO of this scale and size, many choices had to be made as to the launch and post-launch feature set. Same gender romances with companion characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic will be a post-launch feature. Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options."

The important part:

"Same gender romances with companion characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic will be a post-launch feature."

BioWare has, in fact, committed to SGRs. While I know we all would like more info, this is a direct statement that SGRs will be in the game. Lack of any statement as to when does not invalidate that, annoying as said lack of statement is.

 

Just doing my best to prevent any spread of misinformation.

Edited February 3, 2012 by MusedMoose

[Uluain]

BioWare has, in fact, committed to SGRs. While I know we all would like more info, this is a direct statement that SGRs will be in the game. Lack of any statement as to when does not invalidate that, annoying as said lack of statement is.

 

Just doing my best to prevent any spread of misinformation.

Thank you, Mused. You are correct. I think my frustration has impaired my reading comprehension.

 

But they still haven't said beans about [Flirt]s.

[MusedMoose]

Thank you, Mused. You are correct. I think my frustration has impaired my reading comprehension.

 

But they still haven't said beans about [Flirt]s.

Moose, thanks. And yeah, it's easy to get upset about all this, and it's easy to feel nothing but negative. If I can help prevent that, I'm glad to.

 

As for [Flirt]s, I'm not thrilled about that either, but it's a lesser issue for me. My characters will have no need to flirt with anyone if they can have a relationship with the companions they want to.

[MaGicBush]

http://teamcoco.com/video/star-wars-same-sex-relationships

 

Gotta love it, this shows how out of place it would be in the SW lore. I really hope this feature is forgotten about, and BW just stated that they would be added post-launch to get people to back off.

 

BioWare has, in fact, committed to SGRs. While I know we all would like more info, this is a direct statement that SGRs will be in the game. Lack of any statement as to when does not invalidate that, annoying as said lack of statement is.

 

Just doing my best to prevent any spread of misinformation.

 

They also promised some other things and changed their minds later, people can tend to do that on occasion .

Edited February 3, 2012 by MaGicBush

[Raiellyn]

http://teamcoco.com/video/star-wars-same-sex-relationships

 

Gotta love it, this shows how out of place it would be in the SW lore. I really hope this feature is forgotten about, and BW just stated that they would be added post-launch to get people to back off.

 

That's... actually very rude, to actively hope people are deprived of a feature that was promised to them.

[kraidy]

http://teamcoco.com/video/star-wars-same-sex-relationships

 

Gotta love it, this shows how out of place it would be in the SW lore. I really hope this feature is forgotten about, and BW just stated that they would be added post-launch to get people to back off.

 

I love people who say it's out of place in SW when it is not in fact out of place. Play the Agent story line then come back to me. Anyone who has beaten the agent story knows what I'm talking about. So yes, S/S exists in SW, we also have other stuff, more so in Kaliyo's past. SO yes it's there. Edited February 3, 2012 by Parali
rude

[Argentus]

Both of you are incorrect. The quote we've been getting since September:

 

The important part:

 

BioWare has, in fact, committed to SGRs. While I know we all would like more info, this is a direct statement that SGRs will be in the game. Lack of any statement as to when does not invalidate that, annoying as said lack of statement is.

 

Just doing my best to prevent any spread of misinformation.

 

I know I'm not supposed to say this on the Internet, but thank you for correcting me!

 

A little hope on this front is nice!

[MaGicBush]

I love people who say it's out of place in SW when it is not in fact out of place. Play the Agent story line then come back to me. Anyone who has beaten the agent story knows what I'm talking about. So yes, S/S exists in SW, we also have other stuff, more so in Kaliyo's past. SO yes it's there.

 

Someones a bit defensive, chill out.. I am not trying to insult anyone, to me it just honestly does not fit in with the game at all so I would rather not see it. Your comparison to the agent storyline doesn't make much sense either, BW made this game and can alter things in the SW lore(which they have done) to fit with the game.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Parali
bad quote

[Argentus]

That's... actually very rude, to actively hope people are deprived of a feature that was promised to them.

 

Well, that sort of perfectly encapsulates the anti-SGR mindset, though. (Actually, the whole anti-LGBT crowd in general.) The thought seems to be, 'I'm not interested in having this freedom and I don't want you to have it either'.

 

Which seems a little weird to me, when a little tending of one's own knitting and not worrying about what your neighbor does goes a long way towards making the world a nicer place.

[Uluain]

I would rather not see it.

Maybe just say that, and leave it at that, rather than being a jerk.

 

We know some people would rather it were not included. So does BioWare.

 

That's not the subject of the thread, which is to ask how BioWare intends to go about this.

[kraidy]

Someones a bit defensive, chill out.. I am not trying to insult anyone, to me it just honestly does not fit in with the game at all so I would rather not see it. Your comparison to the agent storyline doesn't make much sense either, BW made this game and can alter things in the SW lore(which they have done) to fit with the game.

Massive IA story spoilers

 

Hunter, a major character and the main villian who flirts with a female agent and other females is in fact a female and has some feelings for the agent. You can also flirt with Hunter when you first meet her at the meeting place.

 

 

Also Kaliyo seduced a woman in her past and had a thing with her, then left her and the girl cried for weeks. It's there, it fits. Deal with it.

Edited February 3, 2012 by kraidy

[Rayla_Felana]

Massive IA story spoilers

 

Hunter, a major character and the main villian who flirts with a female agent and other females is in fact a female and has some feelings for the agent. You can also flirt with Hunter when you first meet her at the meeting place.

 

 

Also Kaliyo seduced a woman in her past and had a thing with her, then left her and the girl cried for weeks. It's there, it fits. Deal with it.

 

Not to mention the plenty of other Homosexual romances in Star Wars lore, anyone who really knows anything about Star wars lore would know that NO differentiation is made between genders in the lore, ever, nada, nothing, ONLY cross-species romances have been mentioned as something 'out of the norm' if you will.

 

But please, let's get back on topic, the inclusion of SGRAs is NOT the topic, HOW it should be implemented, is the topic.

[AtomicWanderer]

I'm sorry, but pushing, and pushing, and pushing to try and get a video game company to include non-necessary content is a waste of time, both theirs and yours.

 

It seems to me that trying to validate life choices, whatever they may be, by bringing those choices over into a game world is not, and will never be, high on the list of things for them to accomodate. Sorry, but there are more pressing issues for the developers to address.

 

In the interest of actually doing things that benefit the *entire* community (and not just the very few), why don't we focus on FPS, new group content, and new weapons/armor as a productive start.

[Cythereal]

I'm sorry, but pushing, and pushing, and pushing to try and get a video game company to include non-necessary content is a waste of time, both theirs and yours.

 

It seems to me that trying to validate life choices, whatever they may be, by bringing those choices over into a game world is not, and will never be, high on the list of things for them to accomodate. Sorry, but there are more pressing issues for the developers to address.

 

In the interest of actually doing things that benefit the *entire* community (and not just the very few), why don't we focus on FPS, new group content, and new weapons/armor as a productive start.

 

Not everyone does group content, not everyone likes to do flashpoints, and some people are quite content with the weapons and armor they have. Such things, which are already confirmed to be in the works, don't benefit everyone.

[Bruke]

I honestly don't see a problem. I think it'd probably be a better idea to implement this sort of thing with future additions of companions rather than altering the current ones, but I mean... as it's been stated, the one's that work on that sort of thing aren't the ones that work on the bugs/patches/items/etc., and if you're close-minded enough that the mere possibility of a same-sex relationship that you never have to participate in or ever see the storyline for disgusts you, I really don't think you have the mindset to be involved in any sort of constructive discussion.

[Raiellyn]

I'm sorry, but pushing, and pushing, and pushing to try and get a video game company to include non-necessary content is a waste of time, both theirs and yours.

 

 

Oh, you mean like...

new group content, and new weapons/armor?

 

Please, everyone. This is NOT a topic to debate whether or not it should be included in the game.

 

Bioware has stated it will be.

End of story.

 

The purpose of this topic is to poll HOW it should be implemented, and to request information from Bioware.

 

EDIT: Rayla... How is it that I somehow almost quoted your post near-verbatim without having read it? o_0

*high-fives*

Edited February 3, 2012 by Raiellyn