Is it me or the healer.

[Myrden]

As a healer I agree and disagree. Yes, the tank should be holding aggro, but if you get a healer who just constantly is spamming heals then of course they are going to get huge aggro.

 

Healing isn't just about pressing heals as much as you can ,it's about managing your aggro, using heals most effectively. If someone is spamming Deliverance then they are not a healer. However, i have seen it seems very easy to get aggro in this game as a healer also.

 

Basically, dont't always blame the tank . DPS should also be using CC.

 

While I agree with you there that the healer shouldn't be spamming the heals like a bell-end and know how to play, it's still more heavily dependent on the tank's ability to generate threat and hold it.

 

If the healer is being hit on (and funny how the OP's story changed from "healer had mobs on him" to "healer had no chance of dying" to "healer had no mobs on him" throughout the thread) then he is still going to be suffering knockbacks to his heals, and as a result, you're getting nothing.

 

Blaming others gets you nowhere, imo, so I just blame myself and try to do better next time.

 

 

CC helps too.

[failr]

OP if you have mobs beating on a healer at any point, it is probably your fault. It takes him 3 times more mana and cooldowns to heal himself rather than heal you. So if he had a mob on him first half of the fight that you didn't pick up, chances are he s prolly out of cooldowns and mana by second half of it. In short, if they ever release nonfaileasymode content, and you let anything beat on the healer he will just die, right now you can actually tank quite a bit as a healer, just cause most content is too easy.

[Varghjerta]

BAsicly it is this

 

being a normal player healer in a bad group people will say bad healer

 

Being normal player healer in a good group people will say good healer.

 

 

But in the end as a healer we cant compensate for other people as we can in other games.

 

This game requires teamwork and if it fail it can actually be Tank healer or the DPS fault so people must start asking themself did i do bad or good and did i perform adequate.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Varghjerta

[snowmon]

pull mobs > CC ranged > kill melee > kill ranged > move on.

[ACLucius]

I've played all three roles in every game I have been in. This is what I have learned...

 

The tank's job is to keep aggro to the best of his or her ability.

 

The DPS's job is to control their own aggro as much as possible.

 

The healer's job is to keep the tank alive.

 

 

If all three roles are doing those jobs right, everything will go smoothly. The healer should never really have aggro on him simply because the tank should hold it fairly well. Now, I don't know what class you were playing, but based on my experience with a trooper, its pretty easy to hold four of them if necessary. You have enough AoE's to keep attacking them all.

 

That said, two things went wrong with what you said. First, no one CCed any of the other bosses. At the very least, one of them should have been incapped. So, since all of the healing classes have a CC ability, I blame this on the healer.

 

Second, the healer took aggro somehow. Whenever I healed for that part, I did nothing but heal. I did not attack any of them or heal more than necessary so that my force would not run out. There is no reason why the healer should have taken aggro. If you were neglecting any of them, then yes, it was your fault. But if you were making sure to attack all of the bosses, then the healer simply thought he could DD as well as heal.

 

The healer was at fault. Maybe you might have been a bit, I can't tell you for certain because I wasn't there. However, usually if the tank dies before anyone else, it is either because the tank is undergeared, or the healer wasn't doing his or her job.

[Varghjerta]

I've played all three roles in every game I have been in. This is what I have learned...

 

The tank's job is to keep aggro to the best of his or her ability.

 

The DPS's job is to control their own aggro as much as possible.

 

The healer's job is to keep the tank alive.

 

 

If all three roles are doing those jobs right, everything will go smoothly. The healer should never really have aggro on him simply because the tank should hold it fairly well. Now, I don't know what class you were playing, but based on my experience with a trooper, its pretty easy to hold four of them if necessary. You have enough AoE's to keep attacking them all.

 

That said, two things went wrong with what you said. First, no one CCed any of the other bosses. At the very least, one of them should have been incapped. So, since all of the healing classes have a CC ability, I blame this on the healer.

 

Second, the healer took aggro somehow. Whenever I healed for that part, I did nothing but heal. I did not attack any of them or heal more than necessary so that my force would not run out. There is no reason why the healer should have taken aggro. If you were neglecting any of them, then yes, it was your fault. But if you were making sure to attack all of the bosses, then the healer simply thought he could DD as well as heal.

 

The healer was at fault. Maybe you might have been a bit, I can't tell you for certain because I wasn't there. However, usually if the tank dies before anyone else, it is either because the tank is undergeared, or the healer wasn't doing his or her job.

 

Yes and no in this game in WOW yes you are right but this game have a tight control on healers and tanks .

 

Basicly in this game we cant compensate for it.

 

Sure it exitsts bad healers and tanks out there but aswell a role cant compensate for another role in this game,

meaning bad player == bad group

 

one diffrenece 4 ppl did Taral v normal 1 was lv 50 dps

took 2 hours

 

3 people one 50 did Taral V took one hour

 

And that is what seperates a good player

Edited January 17, 2012 by Varghjerta

[Shammus]

I know that their aren't very many tanks in this game. I've met a few others but there about as rare as healers.

 

Now I'm a tank (and one of the already few that tank specs) and it jerks my chain when I'm tanking a run on Mandalorian Raiders. I tank all the way to the 4 man boarding party. I die while tanking 3 to all 4 of them through the whole fight, while being healed, and we wipe.

 

This of course makes the healer mad and he gets mad at me for not keeping them off him. So he up and leaves. (we got another one and completed the flashpoint but that's not the story here.)

 

Now I know from past MMO experience, that if the Tank dies and you wipe, usually it means that the Tank was holding enough damage to drop him quickly (me in this case) and the healer did not heal enough.

 

So my question is. Should I try and Tank less of a fight in order to make it easier on the healer, or should I just start looking for better healers.

 

I need some tips here, If it's me I need to know, but if it's not me please help.

 

 

 

EDIT (forgot to ask if it could just be the game)

 

 

 

the problem is with pugs if almost all the mobs in this game are ranged.. and the first thing they do is go to the healer

 

So unless you're an assassin everything you're not on pretty much aggros the healer.. NOW top that off with the fact that you've probably got a sorcerer trying to tank a HM elite and a maurader doing the same thing

 

So while everyone is off tanking their own mobs, you have two or three normal mobs just shooting the healer while the healer is doing everything he can to keep everyone alive.. meanwhile healer starts dying so gets stuck in an endless heal cycle on himself

 

More then likely its the groups. and since alot of mobs are ranged you have to los them and group them up

 

we can always run meelee mobs to the tank to pick up, we cannot do this with ranged.

 

 

 

I'm glad to see bioware has made CC almost required to make grouping pleasant, it almost reminds me of old school EQ days, yet everyone is always just kinda like **** it i'm gonna hit any mob I can.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Shammus

[failr]

I'm glad to see bioware has made CC almost required to make grouping pleasant, it almost reminds me of old school EQ days, yet everyone is always just kinda like **** it i'm gonna hit any mob I can.

 

I dunno, I ve done every HM cept for foundry as a healer and all you do is just aoe everything down, there was may be 1 or 2 pulls total where cc was preferred. But overall its even more easymode than wow for trash mobs.

[Game_Hermit]

I know that their aren't very many tanks in this game. I've met a few others but there about as rare as healers.

 

Now I'm a tank (and one of the already few that tank specs) and it jerks my chain when I'm tanking a run on Mandalorian Raiders. I tank all the way to the 4 man boarding party. I die while tanking 3 to all 4 of them through the whole fight, while being healed, and we wipe.

 

This of course makes the healer mad and he gets mad at me for not keeping them off him. So he up and leaves. (we got another one and completed the flashpoint but that's not the story here.)

 

Now I know from past MMO experience, that if the Tank dies and you wipe, usually it means that the Tank was holding enough damage to drop him quickly (me in this case) and the healer did not heal enough.

 

So my question is. Should I try and Tank less of a fight in order to make it easier on the healer, or should I just start looking for better healers.

 

I need some tips here, If it's me I need to know, but if it's not me please help.

 

 

 

EDIT (forgot to ask if it could just be the game)

 

Tanking less of the mobs will NOT help the healer, especially if it's a commando since our AOE heal capability is limited. If you even asked this you are a fail tank. Not trying to flame you. I'm just truthfully pointing out that the problem is either you or both you and the healer, although I can't say which without knowing the details. Even if a healer can outheal the damage, trying to do that for a squishy class will run them out of heal juice (ammo in my case) super fast. Not to mention that mobs pushing back cast times on the DPS makes the fight take longer which makes people take more damage. Mobs pushing back casting on the healer makes people die. The only good reason not to be trying to get the agro of a mob is if it's CC'd.

 

As a healer I agree and disagree. Yes, the tank should be holding aggro, but if you get a healer who just constantly is spamming heals then of course they are going to get huge aggro.

 

Healing isn't just about pressing heals as much as you can ,it's about managing your aggro, using heals most effectively. If someone is spamming Deliverance then they are not a healer. However, i have seen it seems very easy to get aggro in this game as a healer also.

 

Basically, dont't always blame the tank . DPS should also be using CC.

I'd just like to add that not spamming is especially important for commandos. Unlike sages, our regen rate gets lower if our ammo is low.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Game_Hermit

[RachelAnne]

To be fair, if your healer is complaining that he has mobs on him, then you're not doing your job 100%, are you?

 

Not really.

 

There are many reasons why a mob is on the run. It could be that the healer pulled aggro by just spamming his heal to early, especially unexperienced healers always do this. A good tank does not die in 5 seconds without a heal. Even the major raid bosses at wow, gave you time as tank.

Or the healer was so stupid and did chain heal a dps, who didnt manage his CC target or just pulled aggro by nuking to early.

 

If the dps and the healer let the tank gain aggro then nobody will take that aggro of him anytime soon.

 

Many people also dont understand that a pull is not done in 1 second. To a pull belongs the positioning of the mobs as well, this can take a few seconds - especially with ranged targets.

Edited January 17, 2012 by RachelAnne

[Shammus]

I dunno, I ve done every HM cept for foundry as a healer and all you do is just aoe everything down, there was may be 1 or 2 pulls total where cc was preferred. But overall its even more easymode than wow for trash mobs.

 

and not every class can effectively aoe some can but not all. And if you're new to hardmodes and not geared up once everyone starts taking dmg, its impossible to heal as say a Mercenary healer

Edited January 17, 2012 by Shammus

[AnarchIV]

It is not your fault, DPS and off-tanks need to take other mobs who are harassing your healer

[amnie]

I read up to page 8 and then got a headache

 

what I learned:

 

do not heal a party with a tank 3 level below the level of the instance

[Shortwave]

Healer dies = tank's fault

Tank dies = healer's fault

[amnie]

Healer dies = tank's fault

Tank dies = healer's fault

 

nu-uh

 

healer dies = tank's fault

tank dies = tank's fault

dps dies = dps' fault

 

[Myrden]

Not really.

 

There are many reasons why a mob is on the run. It could be that the healer pulled aggro by just spamming his heal to early, especially unexperienced healers always do this. A good tank does not die in 5 seconds without a heal. Even the major raid bosses at wow, gave you time as tank.

Or the healer was so stupid and did chain heal a dps, who didnt manage his CC target or just pulled aggro by nuking to early.

 

If the dps and the healer let the tank gain aggro then nobody will take that aggro of him anytime soon.

 

Many people also dont understand that a pull is not done in 1 second. To a pull belongs the positioning of the mobs as well, this can take a few seconds - especially with ranged targets.

 

But he's still not doing his job 100%. If I ever do a pull and I have a mob on a party member which I don't immediately attempt to apply threat to, then imo, I'm not doing my full job as a tank.

 

I think the problem with the OP's scenario is that he was being healed by a player 10 lvls his senior, which would have made controlling threat quite tricky.

 

I'm not calling anyone out on being a bad tank, btw, I'm certainly not the best by any means, just saying that it's not good to leave a mob on your healer (as was originally mentioned).

[Game_Hermit]

well if 2 party members were 10-15 lvls above the content, you shouldn't have had any problem at all.

True that. In the mid-twenties I helped someone through esseles on my commando. I was both the tank and healer for the boss fight. I didn't even have to heal though. The boss literally couldn't hit me. He just whiffed the entire fight. 10 levels is a huge difference in a game that only has 50 levels.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Game_Hermit

[Templeman]

I first ran this flashpoint with just three people. I am a Jug tank, my wife is a BH dps, and my brother is BH DPS. One of them had mako up.

We CCed the smuggler, the trooper broke cc somehow (mako?).

 

I moved away from the trooper and smuggler, the Jedi chased us, I held aggro but the Jedi with two sabers kept going after Mako. However the BH's took him out fast. We then killed the other Jedi, then the smuggler and last the trooper. Without having been there I can't really know what went wrong with your run.

[Iusedtoplaywow]

problem would be solved with combat logs/meters

[Templeman]

problem would be solved with combat logs/meters

 

or fraps....

Tell me. Was the flashpoint to hard for you? Did you look up a guide first? Did you have a higher lv player run you through it? Did you really find it so hard that you think maybe you need to see some logs? In the 16 man runs you might have an argument but in a 4 man run I have zero sympathy if you can't figure out what your doing wrong.

[amnie]

problem would be solved with combat logs/meters

 

we're talking about a lvl 25 instance. the tank was the lowest lvl (that is already usually a bad bad bad idea)... and not only that, he was 3 lvl below the instance lvl.

 

maybe it was wrong that the healer left after the first wipe, but I've run a few 'noob pugs' in my life and I can tell you sometimes my patience runs thin when I'm 10+ lvl higher than the instance (probably even only helping out because the group leader spammed the general chat and I feel bad for them) and still the people fail.

 

or maybe the dps didn't pay attention and the healer had to heal .them. aswell.. or they .did. pay attention, knowing they are 2-8 lvl higher than the tank so they can't make as much dmg

 

but with 4 people in the group - unless all four don't know what they are doing - it's usually fairly easy to tell what went wrong

[Tralesh]

I'd certainly look at your gear, more absord and defense maybe. I don't know what you have, but it's always where I start.

 

I did this zone last night for the first time at lvl 27 as a Shadow tank with a 33 Sent and our companions (kira and Tharon (he's a good healer weirdly!)).

 

If Tharon can heal it, then I would look at the healer with my pointy finger.

 

Best thing I found was mezzing that sorc at the start and drop my 5 sec stun whenever it was up on one of the smaller guys, and just burning down the other two asap.

 

As an aside took 3 goes to kill the last guy till I figured we need to kill turrets first!

Edited January 17, 2012 by Tralesh

[Ruuprect]

I have been seeing a lot of tanks having trouble keeping aggro even on 2-3 mobs. I am a healer and have aggro all the time and am not sure if the tanks just have really bad aggro tools or if I am doing it wrong.

 

Do other tanks have trouble getting and keeping aggro? I think this goes along with the OP as he seems to have the same problems as a lot of tanks I have come across. I am lvl 50 and have done a lot of the FP's.

[Vitiock]

I have been seeing a lot of tanks having trouble keeping aggro even on 2-3 mobs. I am a healer and have aggro all the time and am not sure if the tanks just have really bad aggro tools or if I am doing it wrong.

 

Do other tanks have trouble getting and keeping aggro? I think this goes along with the OP as he seems to have the same problems as a lot of tanks I have come across. I am lvl 50 and have done a lot of the FP's.

 

As an immortal jugg I definately have issues keeping agro on multiple mobs, i've learned that most don't need to be tanked by me however and that dps can usually tank even up to the strong mobs in an instance.

[amnie]

I have been seeing a lot of tanks having trouble keeping aggro even on 2-3 mobs. I am a healer and have aggro all the time and am not sure if the tanks just have really bad aggro tools or if I am doing it wrong.

 

Do other tanks have trouble getting and keeping aggro? I think this goes along with the OP as he seems to have the same problems as a lot of tanks I have come across. I am lvl 50 and have done a lot of the FP's.

 

I had trouble in that level range, yes, which is why I'm saying that it's the tank's fault at lvl 22 in a lvl 25 instance.

 

then again for that fight it's not needed that the tank has to constantly have all three elites, as people already said only the warrior jumps around randomly and you have to kill them one at a time.

 

btw.. does any tank class even .have. any taunt skill at lvl 22? I don't remember when I got my first one