Kallti Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Does this make sense to anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazerius- Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 depending on spec, it's quite a good rage builder. In addition to this, say you don't have any points specced into improved, you could spam it 5 times, and not only have a full stack of 5 on the target, but more than likely be rage capped. Otherwise, if u want to quick stack your 5 stack take the talents for improved, hit sundering assault followed by Crushing Blow, and you're set for the 5 stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Because building up 20% armor reduction over the span of 9-10 seconds would be OP. Power like that only belongs in the hands of tough to use and insanely underpowered Ops who get 50% instantly. Edited January 16, 2012 by Dreadspectre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazerius- Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Because building up 20% armor reduction over the span of 9-10 seconds would be OP. Power like that only belongs in the hands of tough to use and insanely underpowered Ops who get 50% instantly. Doing what I said above, I build 5 stack in 2 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Doing what I said above, I build 5 stack in 2 seconds. Not all of us are Immortal or Rage, whatever spec does that. Vengeance tree doesn't have rage problems though, I just want the reduction NAO. Thinking about taking my pissy force scream DoT points out and putting it into the 2 stack per swing talent in Vengeance tree lately, though I do like tossing a ******** DoT on someone to hold a node cap for a few more seconds/occasionally pop a stealth out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renesis Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Because building up 20% armor reduction over the span of 9-10 seconds would be OP. Power like that only belongs in the hands of tough to use and insanely underpowered Ops who get 50% instantly. OP? So what does that make mercs? OP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazerius- Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Not all of us are Immortal or Rage, whatever spec does that. Vengeance tree doesn't have rage problems though, I just want the reduction NAO. Thinking about taking my pissy force scream DoT points out and putting it into the 2 stack per swing talent in Vengeance tree lately, though I do like tossing a ******** DoT on someone to hold a node cap for a few more seconds/occasionally pop a stealth out. So you're saying all 3 trees of Ops can apply the full stack instantly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 So you're saying all 3 trees of Ops can apply the full stack instantly? To my knowledge(which isn't good) their Hidden Strike causes them to ignore 50% armor for whatever seconds or something. Don't quote me. My original comment was made as a joke btw, because as a Vengeance Jugg I am not pulling fat *** numbers because most of my damage is physical. I do not get the lofty heights that Rage Jugg smashes get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazerius- Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 To my knowledge(which isn't good) their Hidden Strike causes them to ignore 50% armor for whatever seconds or something. Don't quote me. My original comment was made as a joke btw, because as a Vengeance Jugg I am not pulling fat *** numbers because most of my damage is physical. I do not get the lofty heights that Rage Jugg smashes get yeah, I don't know what ops have in that regard, and too lazy to look it up. For me to stack that quickly, I have to be full tree immortal, but everybody attacking the target gets the bonus. Not sure if Ops are for just them or for group damage. My only agent is a 21 sniper, so I have no clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallti Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 depending on spec, it's quite a good rage builder. In addition to this, say you don't have any points specced into improved, you could spam it 5 times, and not only have a full stack of 5 on the target, but more than likely be rage capped. Otherwise, if u want to quick stack your 5 stack take the talents for improved, hit sundering assault followed by Crushing Blow, and you're set for the 5 stack. It builds rage the same as Assault, so that is irrelevant. My argument is that it should replace Assault as our rage builder. You would never spam 5 in a row, that would be terrible damage/threat for 5 GCDs. You would still open with Sundering Assault then Crushing blow and get 5 stack straight away, so there is no buff when taking away the CD, the benefit is that you can remove Assault from your bar. It most certainly does not make it OP, the only change it would have to the way we play is it would free up a keybind because Assault can be taken off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It builds rage the same as Assault, so that is irrelevant. My argument is that it should replace Assault as our rage builder. You would never spam 5 in a row, that would be terrible damage/threat for 5 GCDs. You would still open with Sundering Assault then Crushing blow and get 5 stack straight away, so there is no buff when taking away the CD, the benefit is that you can remove Assault from your bar. It most certainly does not make it OP, the only change it would have to the way we play is it would free up a keybind because Assault can be taken off. Well I mean is this PvE or PvP? PvP I usually have no rage issues as you open with a Saber Throw>Leap nets you 6 off the bat, Sunder for another 3(talented.) For times when I don't get to leap or toss I pop Berserk for 6, sunder for 3 and ready to rock. Are you 50 yet? If not you might be missing some of the tools we get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazerius- Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It builds rage the same as Assault, so that is irrelevant. My argument is that it should replace Assault as our rage builder. You would never spam 5 in a row, that would be terrible damage/threat for 5 GCDs. You would still open with Sundering Assault then Crushing blow and get 5 stack straight away, so there is no buff when taking away the CD, the benefit is that you can remove Assault from your bar. It most certainly does not make it OP, the only change it would have to the way we play is it would free up a keybind because Assault can be taken off. Nice in theory, but it'll never happen. It would be too easy to keep the stack up that way. Convenience is not the way jugg was designed. Reference: See my 4 fully used tool bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSassafrass Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It builds rage the same as Assault, so that is irrelevant. My argument is that it should replace Assault as our rage builder. You would never spam 5 in a row, that would be terrible damage/threat for 5 GCDs. You would still open with Sundering Assault then Crushing blow and get 5 stack straight away, so there is no buff when taking away the CD, the benefit is that you can remove Assault from your bar. It most certainly does not make it OP, the only change it would have to the way we play is it would free up a keybind because Assault can be taken off. You could just... take assault off your bar. Except very rarely in PVP assault is useless as a rage builder. You have plenty of other abilities you use to generate threat during the cooldown of sunder. And sunder does more dmg, and builds more rage. Why would you have any reason to use assault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallti Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Nice in theory, but it'll never happen. It would be too easy to keep the stack up that way. Convenience is not the way jugg was designed. Reference: See my 4 fully used tool bars. You are implying it is 'hard to keep up' now? It's not, CD is 4.5 seconds and the buff lasts 15 seconds, you honestly find it hard to keep up? Like I said, this would not buff us in any way I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallti Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) You could just... take assault off your bar. Except very rarely in PVP assault is useless as a rage builder. You have plenty of other abilities you use to generate threat during the cooldown of sunder. And sunder does more dmg, and builds more rage. Why would you have any reason to use assault? I find myself using Assault semi-regularly PvE when there is simply nothing else to do and getting more rage is always good. If Smash / Scream / Sundering Assault / Vicious Slash / Ravage etc are all on CD, what else are you going to do? I am talking in terms of Immortal spec, by the way. I would much prefer to be able to use Sundering Assault as a filler, rather than Sundering Assault and Assault when Sundering Assault is on CD. Two filler/rage building abilities just doesn't make sense. Edited January 16, 2012 by Kallti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazerius- Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 You are implying it is 'hard to keep up' now? It's not, CD is 4.5 seconds and the buff lasts 15 seconds, you honestly find it hard to keep up? Like I said, this would not buff us in any way I can see. Way to read between nonexistent lines. I never said it was hard to keep up now. I said if it's changed to where it can be used every second, it'll be too easy to keep up. However, if you've NEVER had a problem keeping it up, you've NEVER stepped foot into a Warzone. When you're being kited and stunned/knocked back into oblivion, and you don't waste a talent point just to count saber throw as as SA, sometimes, yes, it can be. However, that wasn't my intended point. I'd recommend NOT putting words into people's mouths in the future. That's a good way to get a flame war started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archontrieste Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Because building up 20% armor reduction over the span of 9-10 seconds would be OP. Power like that only belongs in the hands of tough to use and insanely underpowered Ops who get 50% instantly. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazerius- Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 /thread Try reading the rest of this thread, perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Try reading the rest of this thread, perhaps? Try having a sense of humor. Hang out on the PvP forums/actually PvP more often and you'd get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazerius- Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Try having a sense of humor. Hang out on the PvP forums/actually PvP more often and you'd get it I have a pretty good sense of humor. But when your joke sucks, I don't find it funny. /Discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gankstah Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Because building up 20% armor reduction over the span of 9-10 seconds would be OP. Immortals can do it in 2 GCD's... Just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archontrieste Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I have a pretty good sense of humor. But when your joke sucks, I don't find it funny. /Discuss It wasn't so much that it was funny, but more so that it was actually a good point. Besides the fact that armor has very limited value in PvP already, stacking sunder armor quickly is hardly OP in comparison to the enormous armor bypass that some other classes already have. And lets face it, besides the one big crit, we hit like punch-drunk 9 year old girls and we're ability heavy to boot. It would be a relief to be rid of Assault, being one of the weakest hitting abilities in the game and yet so sadly necessary. Every time I hit it for ONE rage I feel a pang of regret and want my global cooldown back. Edited January 17, 2012 by archontrieste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabyss Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Does this make sense to anyone? It makes sense to me why they would have a hard time changing it to a 0 cooldown. The entire class is designed to generate a certain amount of rage per second. If they removed the cd, then the class would be able to generate rage outside of the boundaries of the original design. Then the class may have to go through extensive balancing issues. Why they didn't design it in the first place without a CD...who the heck knows. I think it should replace assault for immortal tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Sundering assault would look pretty awful as our main form of attack. Who the hell wants to do a spinning golf shot for every attack? No, it's fine as is. Assault itself is what needs treatment. I'm not saying buff its damage, just its threat for immortals. Give us a reason to use it beyond not having any other buttons to press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazerius- Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It wasn't so much that it was funny, but more so that it was actually a good point. Besides the fact that armor has very limited value in PvP already, stacking sunder armor quickly is hardly OP in comparison to the enormous armor bypass that some other classes already have. And lets face it, besides the one big crit, we hit like punch-drunk 9 year old girls and we're ability heavy to boot. It would be a relief to be rid of Assault, being one of the weakest hitting abilities in the game and yet so sadly necessary. Every time I hit it for ONE rage I feel a pang of regret and want my global cooldown back. true, we do only have one that isn't on CD. But we have so many of them on CD, and you can spec so when you get hit you gain rage, and every other way, that the only time a person should be rage starved is if they're utterly terrible at the game. And I was referencing the rest of the thread b/c we discussed it the very next post down. So Rather than making a stupid /thread post, how bout you actually contribute to this thread, or just not troll the thread at all. /shrug Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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