Trouble Tanking

[Seipherwood]

I'm having a really hard time tanking, holding agro is sometimes easy, other times hard, but my major problem is taking damage, my hp seem to drop really quick.

 

My stats are as follows:

1342 Aim

1673 Endurance

19,230 Health

7750 Armor

 

48.78 Damage Reduction

10.73 Defense

39.57 Shield Chance

41.24 Absorb

 

 

Do i need to re-focus my mods into Defense and lose shield/absorb or what? I had tons of defense on my juggernaut and he died even quicker then i am right now.

[Demalpheus]

Well, the stats look ok. Though I will say I have around 2% more defense, and 1-2% more shield/absorb. (guesstimating as I dont have my character sheet handy.)

 

The first thing is, are you using Ion Gas Cylinder? I'm guessing you are if your damage reduction is at 48, but I had to ask.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Demalpheus

[Seipherwood]

Ya i pretty much stick in Ion all the time.

[Demalpheus]

Can you link your spec?

[Seipherwood]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hRGrborogZZbIb0z.1

[Totsicher]

Well, it's not going to make an entirely huge difference, but you could get oil slick, for one, which is another move to try and help mitigate damage, but other than that you can get Power Armor in Advanced Prototype to get an extra 2% reduction, but like I said, this isn't a perfect fix. Honestly, I'm not sure why you are having so much of an issue...

 

edit:

 

I wanted to add something I had read from the Sith Assassin codex explaining their observation on tank differences...

Sith Warrior tanks have the most survivability cooldowns, and once they get rolling, they have the most forgiving resource mechanic. They have the most issue generating threat, especially in ranged or AoE situations. Sith Assassins have the fewest and weakest survivability cooldowns, but have the ability to self-heal regularly, a very high block chance, strong AoE threat and okay ranged threat. Shield Tech Powertechs have a moderate amount of survivability cooldowns, okay AoE threat, great ranged threat/battlefield mobility, and the best straight mitigation. Their resource mechanic is very punishing if mishandled. The two force-users have more apparent flaws at lower levels, but grow into the role fully later.

 

And from the BH forums:

 

The third pro is the focus on shields. Powertechs rely on shield absorbs a bit more than the other two tank classes. While they get hit a little more frequently, this also tends to make the incomming damage a bit smoother and less spiky. That in turn puts a little less pressure on your healers. This isn't a major deal, but some groups tend to prefer tanks that take a bit less spike damage.

 

(The point of this was the focus on shield/absorption).

Edited January 16, 2012 by Totsicher

[Yomat]

You're missing combust (Shield Tech) and Power Armor (Advanced Prototype), so that's 8% damage right there.

 

You're missing Oil Slick, which is a defensive cooldown (though not a great one).

 

So that's 8% damage plus a cooldown right there.

 

Try: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0GrdorogzZMsbZb.1

[mugen_dom]

i dont have much problem tanking that spec...Do you use your shield and kolto overload? Do you run with a healer? Are you talking PVP or PVE?

[Demalpheus]

You're missing combust (Shield Tech) and Power Armor (Advanced Prototype), so that's 8% damage right there.

 

You're missing Oil Slick, which is a defensive cooldown (though not a great one).

 

So that's 8% damage plus a cooldown right there.

 

Try: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0GrdorogzZMsbZb.1

 

I agree with Yomat. I would not go without those talents mentioned, especially if my focus is PVE tanking. One of your jobs as a tank is to prevent as much incoming damage as possible.

 

Are you talking PVP or PVE?

 

I'll assume we're talking about PVE for now, since PVP has way too many variables to really say. One of the drawbacks of having a hybrid spec is you lose some things, like the talents Yomat pointed out that are pretty important survivability wise on longer fights. I'm not saying hybrid specs are bad, but if you are having issues then it is time to reconsider and try a different spec.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Demalpheus

[Seipherwood]

Yes i meant PvE

 

I switched to that skill spec, have to wait till tomorrow to see if it holds up

[Tenacity]

Honestly that is a terrible tanking spec. You picked up Superheated Gas in the pyrotech tree, which gives zero benefit while tanking because you're not going to be using combustible gas cylinder. Incendiary missile is not worth the investment if you arent going for a pyro/ap dps build, and Integrated Cardio Package (3% endurance) gives you minimal benefit for the points it requires - right now you're only gaining around 500 health from those 3 talent points. Keep in mind that there is a level of effective health when tanking, meaning that past the effective health point, additional hitpoints become useless. You only need enough health to survive spike damage, and at 19k hp you're way above that amount.

 

You also took neural overload, which isnt really necessary for pve tanking - and is actually detrimental when you're trying to round up enemies to aoe them.

 

 

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GMGrdobogzZMsbM.1

 

That's the build I've been using for tanking. I dont have threat issues, I dont have survivability issues. If you're still taking too much damage with that build, the 2 points in advanced tools can be put into ion screen. If you want more burst damage, they can be put into Iron fist - but you'll generate more threat with the cooldown reduction on flamethrower than you will wtih an extra 8% damage on rocket punch.

 

Focus more on shield rating too. I only have 16k~ health to your 19, but I've got almost 50% chance to shield and my shield absorbtion is at nearly 40%. Shielding is our most important defensive and offensive stat, as it provides you with more damage mitigation than defense rating and also helps you vent heat as a tank.

[Brakner]

Honestly that is a terrible tanking spec. You picked up Superheated Gas in the pyrotech tree, which gives zero benefit while tanking because you're not going to be using combustible gas cylinder. Incendiary missile is not worth the investment if you arent going for a pyro/ap dps build, and Integrated Cardio Package (3% endurance) gives you minimal benefit for the points it requires - right now you're only gaining around 500 health from those 3 talent points. Keep in mind that there is a level of effective health when tanking, meaning that past the effective health point, additional hitpoints become useless. You only need enough health to survive spike damage, and at 19k hp you're way above that amount.

 

You also took neural overload, which isnt really necessary for pve tanking - and is actually detrimental when you're trying to round up enemies to aoe them.

 

 

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GMGrdobogzZMsbM.1

 

That's the build I've been using for tanking. I dont have threat issues, I dont have survivability issues. If you're still taking too much damage with that build, the 2 points in advanced tools can be put into ion screen. If you want more burst damage, they can be put into Iron fist - but you'll generate more threat with the cooldown reduction on flamethrower than you will wtih an extra 8% damage on rocket punch.

 

Focus more on shield rating too. I only have 16k~ health to your 19, but I've got almost 50% chance to shield and my shield absorbtion is at nearly 40%. Shielding is our most important defensive and offensive stat, as it provides you with more damage mitigation than defense rating and also helps you vent heat as a tank.

 

Pretty much the same build I use, why no Ion Screen? I would take 2% damage reduction of 6% extra Rail damage from Rail Loaders any day. ( Actually I do )

 

Mine

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0GrdorogzZMsbM.1

Edited January 16, 2012 by Brakner

[Tenacity]

So far I havent needed the extra damage reduction, but a couple of the DPS players in my guild are still learning to 'hold back'. Until I have them trained, I'd prefer the extra threat.

 

When we start getting into hard mode operations, I'll definitely be going for the extra mitigation.

[Seipherwood]

Cant decide if i want to give up my 8 Absorb Mods and switch to 27 Defense mods or if its even worth it.

[Tenacity]

Cant decide if i want to give up my 8 Absorb Mods and switch to 27 Defense mods or if its even worth it.

 

Keep the absorb. Defense is virtually worthless for us - you get twice as much use out of shield rating and absorbtion rating than you do out of defense.

[Wyndskar]

Ok, this may not entirely apply, but part of it mayy be your taactics. As a merc ( i just started a pt) ive found most players just want to go toe to toe and eat all the damge. One trick ive used on boss or laarge groups that shoot is "after you grab the agro and youve taken some damge, duck behind something and brake line of site". This allllows your healer (or mako) to heal whille you not takeing damge so you top off fast as the bad guys are re postioning. As the are moveing. Your friends can keep hiting them for freee. Then u come back out and keep fightiing to hold agro. It worked on the merc anyway, i rarely got below 80-85%.

[Parthis]

So far I havent needed the extra damage reduction, but a couple of the DPS players in my guild are still learning to 'hold back'. Until I have them trained, I'd prefer the extra threat.

 

When we start getting into hard mode operations, I'll definitely be going for the extra mitigation.

 

I'm not entirely convinced those two points in advanced tools is worth it. Grapple is neat, but Rocket Punch is our bread and butter; two points in Iron Fist might be a better choice for your overall threat (given it's increased crit % and damage from Flame Shield and Surge).

 

Regardless I think many PTs are running with http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0GrdorogzZMsbZb.1 - which is pretty much cookie cutter at this point with only minor variations.

 

OP; the spec changes suggested are sound. Defense is very much a secondary stat for us, and you should favour shield chance and absorb over defense. We shield a lot.

[Rawksoss]

This post reminds me of another one on here about tanking and sure it may be spec a rotation based. However, it also may be the fact you're trying to over tank it. From what I've seen lvling groups are often spread out and are a mix of both elite and non elite. So usually I have the dps kill the non elites while I start building threat on elites that aren't cc'd. I can't speak for HM's but I imagine the say would work. From what I've read aggro is a little different in this game and if your dps attacks multiple targets or the wrong target its a lot harder to get it back then say in wow. Also taunts work different they give you that snap aggro but after the x amount of time it give you of aggro if you aren't attacking it it will start to beat on dps/healer.

 

So after all that it comes down to not worrying about tanking everything and over extending yourself. Set your kill order and work from there.

[Tenacity]

I'm not entirely convinced those two points in advanced tools is worth it. Grapple is neat, but Rocket Punch is our bread and butter; two points in Iron Fist might be a better choice for your overall threat (given it's increased crit % and damage from Flame Shield and Surge).

When I was messing around with different specs in the late 40's and after hitting 50, I did the math on iron fist vs advanced tools. Without taking into account the cooldown reduction on grapple (which I use pretty much every time it's available while tanking to keep enemy groups together), and considering the extra crit damage and crit chance on rocket punch, advanced tools still provides more damage/threat per second if you're using flamethrower every time it's up, on a single target. It gets drastically better if you're hitting more than one target with flamethrower casts.

 

With level 45-50 gear, back when I crunched those numbers, advanced tools was providing around 25-50 more damage per second than Iron fist when flamethrower was used whenever available. Given how much better flamethrower scales with gear than rocket punch does, and the fact that it's elemental damage rather than kinetic, I can only assume it's gotten better with gear upgrades.

 

[broaf]

I tank EV with the parakeet spec without issue. Spec isnt that big of a deal until NM. Your defense is a bit low, shield is great but dont ignore your other sources of mitigation.

 

Shield>defense=absorb