Observations on the Marauder

[Vegettopk]

I've been playing a Carnage Marauder since early release (and in beta), and thought I would talk a bit about the class, since there seems to be so much bad information floating around on these forums.

 

First of all, our damage is fine. Nothing wrong with it whatsoever. The only thing I could say is that it is weaker in pvp at early levels, but it really started to pick up in the 30s. At level 50, I routinely top the damage charts in warzones, even when I'm focusing on objectives and not trying to just pump out damage numbers. I've done over 400k damage in a warzone before, but I generally average around 260k. This isn't to brag, but just to show that this class is capable of big numbers in warzones. In one-on-one circumstances, I feel confident against any other class except for concealment agents/smugglers if they get the drop on me. No chance against them...

 

I will say that it's true how much our class depends on your gear. I'm geared pretty well since I took artifice and always kept artifact level mods in my gear, and now I have a decent amount of Champion gear, which helps a lot.

 

We lack CC early on, but at level 50 I have 3 roots with the talents into Deadly throw and Ravage, and the AoE stun is nice if you are getting swarmed. The snare breaker on Force camo somewhat acts as a second gap closer for me, so I really don't have mobility issues.

 

In terms of endgame PvE, Marauder is definitely viable. My guildies are always asking me to come along for hardmode flashpoints and operations because they know the type of damage I can pump out. So in summary: the damage is fine, we're one of the best, in fact.

 

Here is the one complaint I have that people are completely right about: We are too squishy. Since we have to be in melee range, we will be hit by more aoe's than ranged classes. I do have one point into the reduced damage from AoE's (if they release dual spec, I will definitely have 2 points of this in my PvE spec). Cloak of Pain is nice, but the problem is that you don't want to click it on cooldown or else it won't be available when you are actually getting hit. This isn't a problem until you are facing a boss who can 2 shot you, like Bonecrusher. You have to register that you are being attacked without a target of target, and if something kills you in just a couple hits, you might not even have time to register that you are the target and hit your defensive cooldowns. We definitely need some kind of static defense boost, like the inquisitors damage shield. Running a Marauder in operations is kind of hard right now with the survivability issues, you have to be very careful with pulling hate and AoEs, and combined with the fact that we are melee, it makes it harder than it would be for the squishier ranged classes.

 

So that is pretty much it. People saying that Marauder is useless or does terrible damage just don't know what they are talking about or are just bad players who can't play the class. However, it is true that we need more survivability.

[AcaciaDragon]

I compeltely Agree! it gets alot better after you turn 50 in PvP. I really wish we were less squishy. Maybe if cloak of pain renewed itself on certain ticks depending on spec, ataru procs for Carnage, Dots for Annhilation, and whatever it is Rage uses

[Viscerus]

I compeltely Agree! it gets alot better after you turn 50 in PvP. I really wish we were less squishy. Maybe if cloak of pain renewed itself on certain ticks depending on spec, ataru procs for Carnage, Dots for Annhilation, and whatever it is Rage uses

 

It's a lot better in 50 after you get gear and are fighting level 20s and 30s without gear.

 

Reserve judgement on our performance until there is a 50s only bracket.

 

I can eat half the hp or more of a level 20-somethign with gore and one ravage.

 

I take on a geared level 50 sorc with his bubbles and stuff and I can barely do 10% of his hp sometimes.

[Viscerus]

I still think they sould drop the damage of Savage Kick and make it a stun/knockdown for 3 seconds. it would help us a lot.

[AcaciaDragon]

It's a lot better in 50 after you get gear and are fighting level 20s and 30s without gear.

 

Reserve judgement on our performance until there is a 50s only bracket.

 

I can eat half the hp or more of a level 20-somethign with gore and one ravage.

 

I take on a geared level 50 sorc with his bubbles and stuff and I can barely do 10% of his hp sometimes.

 

Most of my warzones involve other lvl 50's, fighting lvl 50's. My server had quite a lot of people level to 50 quickly. Please take your assuptions elsewhere.

 

Sorcerors are easy if you know how to fight them, using Camo as a way to stop there casting and to help you get a suprise ravage on them helps at times. My biggest challenge are Powertechs and Vangaurds.

Edited January 16, 2012 by AcaciaDragon

[miliways]

/agree, doing good DPS but feel too squishy. We do about equivalent DPS as a sniper or a merc, but they have long range. So we should be more durable.

 

I've got a suggested fix that would ALSO fix another big Marauder problem (itemization)

 

Let mara's wear heavy armor.

 

This will give us a decent chunk more survivability, but nothing stupid. It won't require any massive rebalancing, we'll just use already existing in-game items.

 

And:

 

Then we can finally get something from the light/dark vendors

 

Then we can wear all the awesome armor the Juggernauts get from the sith warrior progression video that we don't have access to FOR SOME REASON

 

We're strictly a melee dps class. We should have some extra armor.

 

Thoughts?

[miliways]

It's a lot better in 50 after you get gear and are fighting level 20s and 30s without gear.

 

Reserve judgement on our performance until there is a 50s only bracket.

 

I can eat half the hp or more of a level 20-somethign with gore and one ravage.

 

I take on a geared level 50 sorc with his bubbles and stuff and I can barely do 10% of his hp sometimes.

 

^ This is a very good point.

[AcaciaDragon]

/agree, doing good DPS but feel too squishy. We do about equivalent DPS as a sniper or a merc, but they have long range. So we should be more durable.

 

I've got a suggested fix that would ALSO fix another big Marauder problem (itemization)

 

Let mara's wear heavy armor.

 

This will give us a decent chunk more survivability, but nothing stupid. It won't require any massive rebalancing, we'll just use already existing in-game items.

 

And:

 

Then we can finally get something from the light/dark vendors

 

Then we can wear all the awesome armor the Juggernauts get from the sith warrior progression video that we don't have access to FOR SOME REASON

 

We're strictly a melee dps class. We should have some extra armor.

 

Thoughts?

 

I was very suprised to find we would not be getting heavy armor when i went to choose my advanced class. i was under the impression we were an off tanking capable class.

[Viscerus]

/agree, doing good DPS but feel too squishy. We do about equivalent DPS as a sniper or a merc, but they have long range. So we should be more durable.

 

I've got a suggested fix that would ALSO fix another big Marauder problem (itemization)

 

Let mara's wear heavy armor.

 

This will give us a decent chunk more survivability, but nothing stupid. It won't require any massive rebalancing, we'll just use already existing in-game items.

 

And:

 

Then we can finally get something from the light/dark vendors

 

Then we can wear all the awesome armor the Juggernauts get from the sith warrior progression video that we don't have access to FOR SOME REASON

 

We're strictly a melee dps class. We should have some extra armor.

 

Thoughts?

 

Heavy armor actually only mitigates 50% of the damage types in teh game.

 

I think we should have the ability to keep cloak of pain up 100% of the time if we talent it. But that might be OP.

 

Really I just think we need a stun (make savage kick a 3 second stun and lower teh damage) and make Force Camo ACTUALLY MAKE US INVISIBLE! I get targeted all the time after popping the crap. and it should clear DoTs

[Stigas]

They should just increase our mitigation by 20% through a passive bonus when you select the Marauder/Sentinel AC. I understand that Medium Strength Armor is already in the game, so we won't be getting Heavy Armor again. Passive bonus' are the only option, and it needs to happen.

 

It's also safe to say that if they felt Juggernauts needed a mobility boost, Marauders would need it too.

 

Lastly, fix the Armor debuffs. If 3 mobs have a debuff that reduces armor, it stacks. That's stupid and needs to be fixed.

 

Deadly Throw should remove absorption effects.

[tjstix]

Too bad cloak of pain isn't a 30 minute armor buff with damage done to attackers.

[Evolutionownz]

Most of my warzones involve other lvl 50's, fighting lvl 50's. My server had quite a lot of people level to 50 quickly. Please take your assuptions elsewhere.

 

Sorcerors are easy if you know how to fight them, using Camo as a way to stop there casting and to help you get a suprise ravage on them helps at times. My biggest challenge are Powertechs and Vangaurds.

 

sneak up to sorcerers? you do know our invis is only 4 secs right? and half the time you're already getting rocks thrown at you/lighting casted on you or missles flying at you anyway plus you have to fight your way through the stuns and tosses.. im glad you play against really pro awesome players that your 4 sec marauder invis can make you sneak up on a sorcerer with a brain that you can ravage root from a carnage tree and maybe it won't be interrupted or stunned or again, tossed.

[Tmbn]

I totally agree, we have the damage, but not the survivability. The problem as you address is that we are a closed ranged class with no survivability. We get hit by things that the ranged is not. I am not sure if Heavy Armor is the way to go, because I think that should be exclusive to the tanking classes.

 

I think we should make a Marauder survivability unite thread!

 

 

Also, out of topic, I agree that Mara dont have armors like Jugg. They need to add way more Mara armors. Ive had the same armor from Dromund kaas to Tatooine. Not fun at all.

[ThisGuyThat]

Carnage damage stats are amongst the most invalid. At least when rage specs brag about damage it's assumed that they were just popping smashes that hit multiple targets for the typical 5k+. making topping damage charts incredibly easy but not necessarily contributing to a win. At the point where a carnage marauder brags about topping damage, something is wrong.

 

I've seen sorcerers top healing AND damage. How is this possible, when healing has an obvious time-on-target damage trade-off? Gear and level imbalance. I don't care about your scoreboards. That you are regularly #1 could say any number of things regarding your playtime, the people on your server, those you are matched up with or against, and also your focus on the objective (which you address but which means nothing, a PURELY objective-based player will have amongst the lowest damages in the game indisputably, as in Huttball they will be attacking enemies ONLY when they have the ball (stunning and moving on when their team has possession), in Voidstar they will attack ONLY when the enemy is pressed up on the door (staying behind to guard even an unattacked door for fear of stealthers and never attacking beyond door for the same reason), and in Alderaan the majority of time should be spent moving between points, defending an empty point, or stalling with channel breakers)

 

The ONLY 'stat' that matters at this point is whether, in any situation, a marauder can do the same 'good' as another comparable (read: DPS) class, and in ideal situations better. The answer seems to be no. Any class in superior gear can roll a warzone, and every single advanced class of every damage spec has "screenshots" of them dominating warzones. What matters is whether there is a reason to roll a marauder and for others to roll with a marauder, and therein lies the problem: my argument is that an operative, bounty hunter, assassin, etc. with your gear level in that warzone could do better in almost every way, and that a spec besides carnage would also do better. No scoreboard will prove you right here, sadly, and it is here that the community should be focused, because the large numbers of frustrated people whom you attempt to shrug off with your scoreboard seem to agree on this point.

 

TLDR; your screenshots are meaningless and prove nothing, your opinion is meaningless (except as a single marauder player, as it has an equal value with all other marauders), and this dispute is unresolved.

Edited January 17, 2012 by ThisGuyThat
smiley face....