Annihilation PvE Stat Priority

[Veregund]

Can we have a discussion about this for endgame PvE purposes? I haven't seen much on the forums about this.

 

I know there's no concrete answer, and may depend on what your precise Anni spec is, but my understanding is:

 

Accuracy (up to 110%) > Crit/Surge (but which first?) > Strength/Power (but which first?) > Endurance.

 

I figure 110% accuracy first is important, since we want bleeds to ignore armor/get resisted less (and of course be able to hit in the first place!). Then crit, especially since crits can heal us, and generally lots of bleed crits will be mad dps. But at the same time, Strength and Power maybe should be first priority, as it generally makes u hit harder, and with our Anni spec, crit is already increased substantially. Thoughts?

[Fierze]

I thought it was Strength > Accuracy to 110% > Surge/Crit(equal) > Power > More accuracy

[Veregund]

Does anyone else have input on this? Possibly a counter to that would be, what good is Strength if you don't have enough accuracy to ensure a hit? Or should crit be ahead of strength, since multiple bleed crits would outweight more powerful bleed hits that we would get from strength?

[BarcodeX]

I'm still reluctant to focus on Accuracy. I can say that I don't miss with only 104%. I pay attention well to all my hits and how much I hit for and I don't ever recalling a "miss" unless it was due to a debuff. Until someone posts actual data or even a video of how effecient Accuracy is, it will stay down on my stat list. Though, another reason to get over 100% is the armor reduction, but IMO that's really only useful against tanks, which still aren't that bad.

 

Aside from Strength, my 2nd stat is Surge, then Crit, then Power (I would put Power before Crit but it seems most mods come with Surge/Crit). With Beserk, we don't need to focus on Crits as much since it's basically an auto crit (and we generate a lot of Fury pretty fast). Surge (especially the adrenal) are situational though. It's only helpful when you actually Crit so one may actually but that one last and replace that with Power or Crit. It's preference really, but I seem to do a LOT more damage after switching from the Power adrenal to the Surge adrenal and I'm even getting the 75k heal medal lol

[Veregund]

I'm still reluctant to focus on Accuracy. I can say that I don't miss with only 104%. I pay attention well to all my hits and how much I hit for and I don't ever recalling a "miss" unless it was due to a debuff. Until someone posts actual data or even a video of how effecient Accuracy is, it will stay down on my stat list. Though, another reason to get over 100% is the armor reduction, but IMO that's really only useful against tanks, which still aren't that bad.

 

Aside from Strength, my 2nd stat is Surge, then Crit, then Power (I would put Power before Crit but it seems most mods come with Surge/Crit). With Beserk, we don't need to focus on Crits as much since it's basically an auto crit (and we generate a lot of Fury pretty fast). Surge (especially the adrenal) are situational though. It's only helpful when you actually Crit so one may actually but that one last and replace that with Power or Crit. It's preference really, but I seem to do a LOT more damage after switching from the Power adrenal to the Surge adrenal and I'm even getting the 75k heal medal lol

 

I'm pretty much in complete agreement on this argument. But I would say that with Strength being first, it might be worth putting Crit/Surge ahead of Power, since (I think) Power essentially does the same thing as Strengh, i.e. more damage?

[kraziwyld]

I can speak for what i've found useful as anni, and i'll list my theories on carnage, haven't theorized enough on madnss to figure out what it does.

 

Annihilation - STR > CRIT > SURGE >POWER,ACC. STR provides extra damage for power, and as bleed damage is internal it is not resisted by armor, so stacking acc doesn't help us much. Stacking Crit and Surge keeps our bleeds ripping things apart. (actually, if annihilate did 1/2 damage, added a 3rd bleed, and otherwise stayed the same, it would be way more useful for us.)

 

Carnage (theory) - STR > POWER > ACC > SURGE,CRIT. Carnage is centered around the 4 cd's you get after gore. While critting during this period is awesome, you want to make sure that you are going to be guaranteed bigger hits. And you need to hit during this period. Upping your base power will ensure that you can have guaranteed maximum average damage through this period.

[BarcodeX]

Annihilation - STR > CRIT > SURGE >POWER,ACC. STR provides extra damage for power, and as bleed damage is internal it is not resisted by armor, so stacking acc doesn't help us much. Stacking Crit and Surge keeps our bleeds ripping things apart. (actually, if annihilate did 1/2 damage, added a 3rd bleed, and otherwise stayed the same, it would be way more useful for us.)

 

Pretty much exactly my POV.

[Exertim]

As we don't have a combat log available for parsing, it will be difficult to pinpoint exact stat weights. Until then, we're just using theories and eyeballing information. As it stands, I've been going the route of STR>110% accuracy>surge/crit>AP as Watchman/Annihilation spec. For those of you that played WoW, accuracy above 100% is essentially Expertise in this game. Also, since parry is frontal and back, it makes reaching the expertise cap even more important. Having that one Cauterize/Rupture be dodged or parried means our overall DPS takes a fairly big hit. Edited January 17, 2012 by Exertim

[diet-water]

how many misses are we actually calculating from NOT having 110% for PVE? i havent been in hard modes yet but in normal EV and palace i had like 101% and didnt really notice many.

or does it actually improve damage too?

[Veregund]

I and as bleed damage is internal it is not resisted by armor, so stacking acc doesn't help us much.

 

 

That's a great point I didn't think about that.

 

But 110% Accuracy will still be important for skill like Annihilate, Vicious Throw/Slash, etc, but I feel less compelled to reach 110%, since the majority of my damage will come from internal bleed dps. Looks like Strength and Crit/Surge will be more important in my book.

[Axcys]

This usally falls on deaf ears but Ill try one more time. Anni crit can be considered saturated in greens at 50. Even with 0 bonus crit you have 30% on your bleeds. The fact of the matter is when you have more crit it increases the benifit you get from other stats. Therefore you can get a better damage gain for less stat budget on another stat power being one of them and surge being the best one. Accuracy is always first until its capped. Every stat will have a point of saturation at different values where that stat has boosted the benifit of another to a point where the other is better. In the case of anni your crit gets a huge head start. Even if you want to argue that you want to boost your heals it is easiest to scale that though endurance gain.

[Scaric]

I'm guessing a few people missed the 'PVE' in the first line by the OP.

 

 

There is also alot of talk about 110% and I want to remind everyone that 110 is simply the best guess as to how much accuracy is needed to always hit a boss level enemy with special attacks.

It may not be 110, it might be 120, or even 105 but the fact is, Accuracy to zero special attack misses will ALWAYS be the number one stat. The only way this won't be true is if accuracy is worth significantly less on a point-per-point basis then all the other stats.

For the rest, it's all basically best guess at this point; however some guesses are better then others.

Crit and Surge stand out as potential stars, but without detailed combat logs and indepth knowledge of damage formulas its estimates at best.

 

I'm really looking forward to crunching the crit/surge numbers, especially compared to baseline starting raid gear. I really think that once we start looking at a baseline, buffs included crit rate over 40% (which is very likely, if not fact) that surge is going to pull ahead, until DRs kick in. (Remember, guaranteed crits significantly reduce the value of crit, but raise the value of surge) Also looking forward to how much power will increase bleed damage, because if traditional thinking is followed power will figure very well with DoTs/bleeds.

[Nmaharg]

I'm guessing a few people missed the 'PVE' in the first line by the OP.

 

 

There is also alot of talk about 110% and I want to remind everyone that 110 is simply the best guess as to how much accuracy is needed to always hit a boss level enemy with special attacks.

It may not be 110, it might be 120, or even 105 but the fact is, Accuracy to zero special attack misses will ALWAYS be the number one stat. The only way this won't be true is if accuracy is worth significantly less on a point-per-point basis then all the other stats.

For the rest, it's all basically best guess at this point; however some guesses are better then others.

Crit and Surge stand out as potential stars, but without detailed combat logs and indepth knowledge of damage formulas its estimates at best.

 

I'm really looking forward to crunching the crit/surge numbers, especially compared to baseline starting raid gear. I really think that once we start looking at a baseline, buffs included crit rate over 40% (which is very likely, if not fact) that surge is going to pull ahead, until DRs kick in. (Remember, guaranteed crits significantly reduce the value of crit, but raise the value of surge) Also looking forward to how much power will increase bleed damage, because if traditional thinking is followed power will figure very well with DoTs/bleeds.

 

I have 108% accuracy and I've never seen an attack missed/dodged/or parried in a raid.

I think the whole 110% thing is a bunch of crap.

[Dire]

Str > Power > Accuracy 110% > Surge > Crit

[Tumri]

Assuming Columi(136 rating) Weapons.....

 

Strength>All

 

Surge>Crit>Power - Until you get around 400 Crit and 250 Surge

 

Power>Surge=Crit - Once you have >=400 Crit and >=250 Surge

 

Accuracy is a wildcard. Take it if you believe in the 110% accuracy theory and ignore it if you don't. Our bleeds are considered internal damage force attacks and as a result it is likely they do not benefit from accuracy at all much like Sorcerer damage doesn't benefit from accuracy. Accuracy remains a viable stat because even after main-hand cap it affects our off-hand accuracy.

 

---

 

Don't listen to people that say stupid things like "you need ~30% crit before DR kicks in" because a lot of your crit actually comes from strength. The DR on crit kicks in at around 350 Crit rating. The crit chance coming from your strength rating is on a separate DR.

 

Surge has low diminishing returns up until about 200 but after that you start gaining a lot less very fast. It's mainly because of how often our DoTs crit that I suggest taking it to 250 surge but anything over that in current tier gear is wasted.

 

Accuracy may or may not be beneficial to take to 110%(special) and 100%(normal) because there is very little we know about boss defense and how accuracy affects it.

 

It is very important not to overstack crit or surge because there is a point when both stats become nearly worthless in comparison to power.

 

Once you have enough power to have your top end main hand damage reach ~900-950 you can get another 50 crit and 25 surge.

 

The DR is so wild that it makes crit/surge/power all eclipse each other repeatedly.

 

SWTOR is a lot about balancing your stats since everything scales so quickly before hitting increasingly punishing DR.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Tumri

[Rabscutle]

Str > Power > Accuracy 110% > Surge > Crit

 

This is how I see it.

 

Plaid out, as someone mentioned, you are getting an absurd amount of crit already through talents, so why not focus on Str and Power to boost your overall potency. Rising tides lift all boats and so forth.

 

Surge seems potent as well, but for me it feels like STR, then Power, then ACC.

 

Again.. this is 100% anecdotal because we don't have a parser... *SHAKES FIST AT BIOWARE* ... as a professional data analyst it makes me feel gross using words like "feel" and "seems" when discussing math.

 

I'm just about to hit 50 and enter into the endgame PVE content, so more experimentation will help. Going to make multiple armour sets to see if I can discern any difference depending on what gear combo works for what spec.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Rabscutle

[REiiGN]

I'd rather have more power than a chance at crit. All my enhancements are Acc/Power. My relic is Rakata boost to Power. I use stims that give me str/power.

[Veregund]

This is how I see it.

 

Plaid out, as someone mentioned, you are getting an absurd amount of crit already through talents, so why not focus on Str and Power to boost your overall potency. Rising tides lift all boats and so forth.

 

S

 

I can see this argument, but when looking at the Anni skill tree, it also "seems'" (lol) that your talents are buffing your str/power as well. With Bleedout, Hemmorage, and Deep Wound, the pure damage of your attacks are increased, and there are a less # of talents that increase your crit chance (in terms of percentages, I'm not sure, but in terms of # of talents, damage-increase talents are more prevalent). Of course the argument can be made that with Beserk, stacking crit is a waste, but we can only use that so often, and with the much needed Bloodthirst, that only allows us to use Beserk less. And when Beserk is on CD, our crit really isn't that great just by virtue of our talents; we need more.

 

So from a balancing standpoint, I'd argue that we should focus on Crit/Surge moreso than power (I'm still a believer that Str comes first) since there is a focus on pure damage in our talent tree, and even though our crit stacking might be "wasted" by Beserk, that's all the more reason to equip Power relics to use on CD when we do pop Beserk, and when Beserk is on CD, we can have lots of Crit/Surge gear to keep that high burst-dmg up.

 

So, what I'm thinking is:

 

Strength > Surge > Crit > Accuracy > Power

 

As a sidenote: I had a debate about whether to put points into Malice on the Rage tree, and decided against it. Instead, I put two points into Defensive Roll in Carnage, as Maras are squishy and extra vulnerable in boss fights. Would welcome thoughts on this one as well. But if this reasoning holds, then it's all the more reason to stack Crit gear.