Stonemender Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I have to admit that the ultimate skill does not really impress me that much. For 5 (4) focus you dont actually get a lot of dmg. With the same focus costs, i could use Slash 2 times. The thing is: - 2 * slash have the same chance of resetting cauterize as mercyless slash - you dont have to observe the CD - Slash has a 15% increased critical hit Chance (if skilled in the balance tree) - 2 * slash deal considerably more damage than 1 * mercyless strike (even without the +critchance) The only advantage mercyless slash might have is the lowered CD which might help dps-wise (if you manage to keep up the buff) but with bladestorm you always have another viable option for spending overflow focus so you dont actually need mercyless slash. Even worse, in a boss fight there usually is not overflow focus anyway. Maybe i overlook something but at present the ultimate seems to be rather pointless. Its not per sé a bad skill, but it appears to be a bit weak as the 'ultimate skill' of a whole tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfnorthwind Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Um... It resets the cooldown on cauterise. (thats enough justification for me) Btw 2x slash do not have the same chance - that's not how probability works. Edited January 16, 2012 by wolfnorthwind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfnorthwind Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Btw, I'm not promising my math is good, but I peg 2x slash at about 57% chance of resetting cauterise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balth_azare Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If you're spending overflow focus on Bladestorm...then you're doing it wrong. I regularly crit for 3k with my Merciless Slash. My Bladestorm crits for about 1.5k to 2k...Not sure where yours is, but it's most likely about the same. And in longer fights, it's pure cake to keep the buff up. Unless you're using the wrong rotation, or having to move around a lot (and I mean beyond strafing, since you can use MS on the move anyways)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonemender Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 You are right. i did the correct probaility calculations and then failed at substracting 0.44 from 1 -.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonemender Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 If you're spending overflow focus on Bladestorm...then you're doing it wrong. I regularly crit for 3k with my Merciless Slash. My Bladestorm crits for about 1.5k to 2k...Not sure where yours is, but it's most likely about the same. And in longer fights, it's pure cake to keep the buff up. Unless you're using the wrong rotation, or having to move around a lot (and I mean beyond strafing, since you can use MS on the move anyways)... The whole point of mentioning BS is the "what would i do if i didnt have MS". For me i think BS and MS hit about the same, with the added benefit of being able to use BS from 10m away. Anyway, i rarely use BS right now. So far all the Hard-Mode bosses require me to run around quite a lot, which severely messes up my rotation and thus the keeping the buff running can be tedious (the other bosses are so simple that discussing rotations/skills is rather pointless). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilrasis Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If you're comparing 1 Merciless Slash to 2x Slashes, you realistically should be comparing 1 Merciless(-4 focus) plus 1 Strike (+2 focus) plus their combined damage to 2 Slashes (-4 focus). Otherwise, you are comparing 1 GCD to 2, which is intrinsically flawed Therefore, exact numbers aside, Merciless does twice (or more) the damage of two slashes, plus the damage of strike, only has a net focus cost of 2, has a 66% chance to reset cauterize, and continues your buff running. Two slashes may do similar damage to just the Merciless slash, but has only a roughly 55.1% chance to reset cauterize (statistically), and costs you double the net focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fascion Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) If your sole concern is damage-per-focus-spent, then absolutely, MercSlash sits just a bit lower than 2x Slash (and laughably less than two spec'd Cauterize.) That's not really a fair analysis of the skill though. DPS-wise, MercSlash+Slash is good for almost three Slash worth of damage. Even if, for whatever reason, you can't seem to keep that cooldown buff at a steady 3 stack, it will always be better DPS than ANY skill you would otherwise cast, Zen'd-Cauterize excluded. As a Watchman spec, you won't often be hurting for focus either (especially so with a decent crit-rate.) Might as well use it on a focus-hog like MercSlash. Now, based on the statement that your BladeStorm hitting for similar numbers as MercSlash... I have to assume you are sub-50 and may have just gotten a new rank of BS. Even then, I don't believe those numbers would line up. Unless we are talking Combat vs Watchman, MercSlash blows BladeStorm out of the water in terms of damage. Even if we were comparing the two builds, BladeStorm only deals equivalent damage to MercSlash with it's guaranteed crit mechanic, which still leaves room for MercSlash to crit and add a good chunk more damage. The only... ONLY... thing BladeStorm has going for itself is that it deals yellow damage (and 10m range; I'll admit to using it often when I am running back from a KB and Leap is down.) In PvP, this makes it unmitigatable and unavoidable, thanks to what I can only imagine is a bug or a HUGE oversight on Bioware's part. In PvE, mobs (even Ops bosses) simply don't have enough defensive stats to see much benefit at all to dealing this type of damage. Edited January 16, 2012 by Fascion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonemender Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 So all things considered - MS is better than just 2 * slash, but not very much. I still think that is rather poor for the ultimate skill of a skill tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilrasis Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 So all things considered - MS is better than just 2 * slash, but not very much. I still think that is rather poor for the ultimate skill of a skill tree. No. All things considered, MS is MUCH better than 2x slash. You people that don't consider the fact that you're essentially slamming two attacks in one global need to re-consider theorycrafting as a hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthtoph Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Anyway, i rarely use BS right now. ^ This. Simply not worth the 4 focus it cost to cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilrasis Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 What do you spend your focus on in it's place? If at any point during combat you're casting 2 slashes and your MS is off cool down, you're pretty much doin it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csdabest Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Just getting into Watchmen. Using Blade Storm is pointless. Unless your running down someone who is running away from being killed but then u have to dispatch. Also Merc slash does more than 2 slash bearly. Thing is in PVP. Ill take the one big slash over the 2 slash especially with animation stutters and delays that will make a tech not go off sometime esecially with slash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarizAA Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 What do you spend your focus on in it's place? If at any point during combat you're casting 2 slashes and your MS is off cool down, you're pretty much doin it wrong. One thing which was not mentioned that 2 slashes build 2th more centering than one MS. For watchman it is important consideration. Our rotation shall be based on dots/burning crits mainly, more centerting =more burn damage. I use MS mainly for PVP and very situational. Actually I am considering dropping it for 1 more point which I can use elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfnorthwind Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 One thing which was not mentioned that 2 slashes build 2th more centering than one MS. For watchman it is important consideration. Our rotation shall be based on dots/burning crits mainly, more centerting =more burn damage. I use MS mainly for PVP and very situational. Actually I am considering dropping it for 1 more point which I can use elsewhere. Incorrect. Centring is built by any focus spend... I'll take An MS and a cauterise. Same centring, 3 times the basic damage, plus a burn for healing and focus gen with even more dps. Second slash is a complete waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyrshadi Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 step one: use this build. http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/jedi_knight/sentinel/#::f2e2f4ef5ef6e5fe3fe4fe3f20 step two: force leap and zealous strike - use them on CD for 10 total focus, just make sure you don't go over about 10 focus in total (or your dots will give you more than you can spend and you end up wasting it) step three: keep overload up as much as possible - also use zealous and force leap to apply when possible. (when your dots are up, 30% chance every 1.5 seconds to generate a focus. happens a LOT) step four: use MercSlash and slash to reset cauterize CD step five: refresh cauterize as soon as it falls off. remember also that all your abilities mentioned above (other than overload) stack overload saber on a target, and Master Strike also applies two. blade storm is a complete waste of focus. keep dots up over using dispatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollowVamp Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) the watchman spec itself seems flawless to me, if not a tad OP. i wish combat was as viable, yes combat is capable of being viable.. but lets face it, it pales in comparison with how fast stuff melts as watchman, even operation bosses slide down MUCH faster with those dots rolling. Edited January 17, 2012 by HollowVamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacixems Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Can ppl please stop saying that step four: use MercSlash and slash to reset cauterize CD, .. read the tool tip. MS has a 66% and slash has a 33% .. so its not an automatic reset..fyi its a "CHANCE" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonemender Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Well. In theocrafting you cant judge Abilities only in terms of DPS but also in terms of DPR. Anyway. At present i am not sure what the formulae behind the DMG-Abilities are which limits the possibilities to do some real DPS-Rotation calculations. I hope, someone takes up the task of programming a RAWR-tool for SWTOR too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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